Should the Nix recruit NZers, or try and win?

Should the Nix recruit NZers, or try and win?

This question has come up quite a bit lately.
Some people put club before country, others country before club.
Bevan2011-07-25 22:15:48

CLUB before country.

Every time for me (that's 3 clubs).

Always get the best player.

If 2 players of similar ability then choose the NZer.

Dont get a NZ youth player if they're not good enough to play,just to fill a youth spot - they're probably better off playing every week.

Easy.

Surely a winning mix of as many kiwis as possible is the best option.. With most/ all squad and youth players going 2 the better kiwi youth

For me winning should come first, but there does need to be a compromise.

The nix have an advantage over every other A-League side in the fact that we can have kiwis AND aussies in the side that won't count as imports. We should make the most of this as much as we can and get guys like Chettleburgh and Clapham in with the sqaud as much as we can.

But only sign them up if they are the best options.

We also could be looking at every kiwi overseas in the lower leagues and offer them trials. Maybe we could even loan them from their sides if possible?

Win at all costs - it doesn't do anyone any favours choosing an average NZer over a quality import.

Signing young NZ players just because they are locals isn't going to help them develop if they are sitting around doing nothing but train for a couple years. Our youth players need to be able to compete for a first team spot. If this means they are Aussies, I am fine with it.

If the phoenix are doing well then the game will do well in this country. If they're getting slammed every week then the game wont grow.

I agree with the logic above that if 2 players are vying for the same place and are at a similar level skill wise etc that we'd go for the kiwi over the foriegner.

Maybe importing young talent in which is better than the current NZ crop is the way to go...sign them up long term, get them residency etc, WPFC wins and NZF wins

What Tegal said

Easy

They are not mutually exclusive. Our big advanatge over other A-league teams is that NZ players don't count as foreigners. So far the NZ players who have been given decent game time tend to be more successful than a lot of other gambles. I believe Ricki naturally places less trust and takes fewer risks with NZ players. If a player isn't up to the standard, or close enough to it that full time training will bring them up, then they obviously shouldn't be picked for the hell of it.rjmiller2011-07-26 08:49:27

>Valuable contribution incoming:

Win! Win! Win! Win! Win! Win! Win!

>End valuable contribution.

An invaluable quote from one of the greatest managers to grace the modern game:

"I don't look at the passport of people, i look at their quality and their attitude".

No more needs to be said.

"unless all our foreign spots are filled,then I kind of have to"

But surely isn't getting a New Zealander more important that a young Aussie? Remember Ricki is national team coach and I would think it be more logical to get a young New Zealander so he can grow more talent, there fore creating better results for the national team in the future. Yes football is a game so winning is number one priority, but if I remember rightly Fergie was going to be sacked from Man U (no I am not comparing Ricki to Fergie) after unsatisfactory results in the first few years, when in actual fact he was buiding a team from the ground up with local talent. Look where that led him: nearly 20 domestic titles, continental and world titles. Looking to the future is sometimes better than going for early 30's foreigners trying to get a wee bit of cash in a lower league before they retire. Think about it, would you rather get 5 young un's and develop them into the game over a few years or 1 past it foreigner who just takes his pay check and does not an awful lot for the club?

Can we turn this around? Can we suggest that people who say that the Nix should be some kind of affirmative action programme for Kiwi aspiring professionals are guilty of "the soft bigotry of low expectations"?

Young Kiwi footballers, like all young Kiwis with real talent, have their sights set on making it big out in the wide world rather than getting a job in their home country. Exhibits A-Z: Rojas, Barbarouses, Reid, etc etc etc. You'll note that the Kiwi stalwarts of the Nix are players of fair-to-middling quality who've been around a bit and want to settle down. Any Kiwi under the age of 25 who was good enough to play for the Nix wouldn't want to play for the Nix for longer than it took to get noticed by an Australian, Asian or Euro club.

The best thing the Nix can possibly do for Kiwi football is to win. Also, I think people don't get what football crowds want. They want to win. The AWs are there for those who want to watch our Kiwi stars, and the ASBPrem is there for those who want to watch "coalface football". If we don't win, the Nix will keep losing money, and Terry will not be able to afford to keep it alive sooner rather than later. (And I doubt Colin Giltrap or Sam Morgan want to run an affirmative action programme, either.)

The argument that Ricki should be using the Nix as an incubator to build a future generation of AWs doesn't hold water, either. I think Marco's going to learn more at the Tards, Winston Reid is going to learn more at the Hammers, and Kosta is going to learn more in freakin' North Ossetia. The Nix might give young players a start but only if they're good enough to get noticed. Otherwise it's a waste of their time and the team's money and standing.Doloras2011-07-26 10:37:09

I just think the Phoenix has a duty to New Zealand to produce local talent. If we do not do that there is not awful lot of point us being here, the 'nix's spot may as well go to Canberra or Sydney Rovers or any other franchise bidding for a spot.

No, the point of the Nix is to give NZ a professional club team. It's there for the public and the wider profile of round-ball football, not for the career paths of Kiwi professionals, who were getting onto the world stage anyway.

Yes there is the crowd side to it, but I do think there could be a awful lot more done in the way of producing young talent. Young Nik; dropped by 2 other A-league clubs and barely made state league so we sign him and he takes up a Under 21's spot. Close to 40 young kiwi's recently played in qualfying for a WC and particpating in a WC and none of them have been trialled bar Chettleburgh. I just want to see more risks by Ricki instead of this safe approach to coaching.

I think that any discussion of whether Ricki is too afraid to take a risk on Honest Coalface Kiwi Yuff should wait until after the U20 WC.

I think that is a fairly bigoted view on a football club. If there was no point in developing talent, then sod it with youth leagues, reserve teams, scouts, U-17's WC, U-20's WC, coaches, everything! Obviously it does not matter that a team tries to creates talent and thinks forward.

please shut up now

Is it simply the FFA's job to produce young talent? Or would such things be down to the clubs

Now hold on, stop moving the goalposts. The Nix should be developing young talent. But you're arguing that we should be hiring a less talented Kiwi over, say, Nick Tsattalios, aren't you?

I have been arguing that Phoenix should sign young kiwi talent. You say less talented kiwi, hmmm lets look at Marco: Playing at college and Waikato and did not even feature for U-17's yet he signs for Phoenix and look where he is now

Hard News2011-07-26 11:02:07

THE PHOENIX DID SIGN YOUNG KIWI TALENT. We signed Marco and Kosta, and James Musa, and probably more to come in a month or so. So what are you going on about again?

You missed Greg Draper and Jacob Spoonley as well Hope.

But has the Phoenix not helped the NZ talent to come along and go on to professional careers? Kosta and Marco are the two big examples. Others have also been given the opportunity - Musa, Draper, Spoonley, and didn't do quite as well.

Secondly, there is always a bunch of promising youngsters who train with the Phoenix, play in trial games, and have the opportunity to get themselves noticed if they perform.

The reality for the Phoenix is that will always be a mere stepping stone for the truly talented NZers, but also with the current situation in NZ football, it is also a step too far for many of the other NZ players (mainly those ones based in NZ). So the bottom line is there is a fairly narrow pool of NZ players that the Phoenix can seriously rely at this point in its history.

simple fact the sole job of the nix is to win the aleague, if they are able to help some young nz footballers progress their careers then that is an added bonus,

Obviously the purpose of the Phoenix is to be a professional team in NZ and win the A-League, but some importance really does need to be placed on developing young Kiwi talent. Although we have nothing to do with the NZF, as the only professional team in the country, we do have a certain amount of public expectation placed on us to grow the All Whites of the future.

Ricki has brought in plenty of young New Zealanders to train, and effectively trial, with the Phoenix. Every week teenagers from all over Wellington are invited to train along with the squad.

Everyone here wants the Phoenix to win, be economically viable and develop new zealanders.

Would however signing bran achieve the above. No

would signing musa achieve the above? At least it may help the last point

if we are signing gun young ausis then I don't have an issue but signing similar quality ausis is pointless



would signing musa achieve the

Is Musa better off sitting on the bench, or playing every week for waitakere?

You must know Brian Bran much better than me to make such black and white statements.

The Phoenix aren't thinking about signing him to develop him, although surely he will develop, the Phoenix are signing him to play if Dura or Siggy gets injured.

The Nix know Musa better than anyone, and having seen him don't think he's capable of that.

NYL.....!!