Could the NZF fund a NYL team? (sorry if that's a completely stupid question)
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Could the NZF fund a NYL team? (sorry if that's a completely stupid question)
Different confederations... can of squirm.
E + R + O
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Phoenix can't 'develop' young Kiwis because there is no youth squad/academy to speak of. Phoenix can potentially sign young Kiwis who are already close to being fully 'developed' and are already good players. With a skeleton squad and an owner who appears to have about $0 at his disposal, we are in no position to sign youngsters who *might* come good. That's the unfortunate reality.
In an ideal world we'd have a full size youth squad with youngsters regularly pushing for a first team place and the good ones we could sell on at a profit. Sadly we're nowhere near that at this stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone
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Phoenix can't 'develop' young Kiwis because there is no youth squad/academy to speak of. Phoenix can potentially sign young Kiwis who are already close to being fully 'developed' and are already good players. With a skeleton squad and an owner who appears to have about $0 at his disposal, we are in no position to sign youngsters who *might* come good. That's the unfortunate reality.
�
In an ideal world we'd have a full size youth squad with youngsters regularly pushing for a first team place and the good ones we could sell on at a profit. Sadly we're nowhere near that at this stage.
This.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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This is all sensible stuff.
However, I do think in some situations the onus has to be on the Phoenix to take a chance on a young NZers - purely because no-one else in world football is going to.
Normo's coming home
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I would also add that IF we didn't have such a shortage of left sided players in NZ I would find Tsatasslios an extremely depressing signing because we are doing exactly what I think we should with young kiwis and taking a chance on him - but I realise in this case that he is doing a job. james dean2011-07-26 21:09:50
Normo's coming home
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is it not logical to think that success on the field will encourage more Kiwi to want to play for the Nix? ie: those that go to other clubs in Aussie, or are at mid/lower level leagues will be more likely to come to a successful club and the likely lower income will be negated more than is currently the case.
We can have a squad full of Kiwi though this won't necessarily lead to success on the pitch (like it can in FM11 lol).
Success breeds opportunity.
We can have a squad full of Kiwi though this won't necessarily lead to success on the pitch (like it can in FM11 lol).
Success breeds opportunity.
E + R + O
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Some good sense spoken here. I worry that with the likes of Marco and Kosta leaving, and with Brockie having to go to Oz to get a gig ... that the Nix aren't the natural home for young kiwi footballers.
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I say to initially go for winning the title, this would entice the young Kiwi footballers to say to themselves that the Phoenix would be a force to reckon with and they do not have to go to the other A league clubs.
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I don't think it's about stopping them going to other A-League clubs, I think it's about having them aspire to play professional football, even if it's against the Phoenix.
A winning Phoenix sells the A-League (as well as the team) and makes kiwi kids bought up on a never-ending diet of Premier League top 4 think 'there is a winning side, I want to do that'.
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I would also add that IF we didn't have such a shortage of left sided players in NZ I would find Tsatasslios an extremely depressing signing because we are doing exactly what I think we should with young kiwis and taking a chance on him - but I realise in this case that he is doing a job.
Agree with this.
I can tell you with confidence that the Nix have looked up and down NZ for a capable young fullback, and not found one they are happy with.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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No, no, no Smithy. Haven't you read anything? The Phoenix clearly ignore local yoof for 'strayans. You can't be right.
Sorry.
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No, no, no Smithy. Haven't you read anything? The Phoenix clearly ignore local yoof for 'strayans. You can't be right.
Sorry.
I'd just like to say:
- f**k you.
- get *ucked.
- your a cu*t.
And thereby I win the day.
That is all.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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Shouldn't you be asleep by now Frankie ?
Oh, sorry, my mistake.
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The Phoenix should comprise totally of American Indians cos they're cool.
I like tautologies because I like them.
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No, no, no Smithy. Haven't you read anything? The Phoenix clearly ignore local yoof for 'strayans. You can't be right.
Sorry.
I'd just like to say:
- f**k you.
- get *ucked.
- your a cu*t.
And thereby I win the day.
That is all.
you're
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
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Actually, shouldn't the Nix be full of ...Phoenicians?
Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!
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I guess for a lot of people they are also huge All Whites fans, therefor would like to see more good New Zealand players.
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The Phoenix should comprise totally of American Indians cos they're cool.�
Sign up Brown Fox as our ace striker.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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In the end its not our decision.... Ricki and co are looking for the best possible players to fit the current mix, its a combination of quality and character.... Ill be happy with wateva we get, as long as they want to be there and give 100%...
It really shouldnt matter if their kiwi or not... Ala Daniel who wants 2 play for the All Whites one day and Greenacre whos staying here long enough to coach... THrough in Ifill whos talking abotu finishing his career here and its all good.
It really shouldnt matter if their kiwi or not... Ala Daniel who wants 2 play for the All Whites one day and Greenacre whos staying here long enough to coach... THrough in Ifill whos talking abotu finishing his career here and its all good.
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Close to 40 young kiwi's recently played in qualfying for a WC and particpating in a WC and none of them have been trialled bar Chettleburgh. I just want to see more risks by Ricki instead of this safe approach to coaching.
Not true.
Nearly all those players were incvolved in the Phoenix youth last year at some point, some fo them training with the club for months. Others have been in and out of training plenty of times over the last few years.
The Phoenix have seen more of these players than anyone but their families and have made the call that they don't see A-League potential among those available. That's different to the image you paste of them being ignored.
shh stop muddying my narrow viewpoint with facts.
Ricki has brought in plenty of young New Zealanders to train, and effectively trial, with the Phoenix. Every week teenagers from all over Wellington are invited to train along with the squad.
plus as others have posted elsewhere the best (most appealing) route for young kiwis is a US college or a direct trial for a european/british club after a WC showing
so it may be the best, who the Nix would take, are not on offer to us
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/5363225/Yet-another-Aussie-pushing-for-Phoenix-spot
talk about it here..
also money isn't an issue for the club apparently.
talk about it here..
also money isn't an issue for the club apparently.
ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH
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promising if RH does believe we have enough cash. hope terry isnt giving him delusions.
Sounds like we are all about right on Bran, he will sign unless someone like Musa or Rowe or someone rip it up
Sounds like we are all about right on Bran, he will sign unless someone like Musa or Rowe or someone rip it up
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It's funny how we're signing players etc,which is a positive thing,but the angle they take is that we are trialling Australians. Also while (as always) completely ignoring the many new zealanders we constantly trial and sign,as that would take away from their angle.
Allegedly
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Understand they may have a history but I would like ricki to give chris James a trial at the very least
Auckland will rise once more
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Understand they may have a history but I would like ricki to give chris James a trial at the very least
I'm sure if he came to Wellington he'd be more than welcome.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/5363225/Yet-another-Aussie-pushing-for-Phoenix-spot
talk about it here..
also money isn't an issue for the club apparently.
talk about it here..
also money isn't an issue for the club apparently.
The cap and minimum salary makes budgetting easier, if we didnt have the money for the cap (or even say 75% of it) the club wouldnt exist.
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OK, am a bit bored (Gr 11 footy cancelled today) but this has been bugging me for most of the day:
"Yet another Aussie pushing for Phoenix spot
Another day, another little-known Australian triallist arrives at the Wellington Phoenix."
I am really disliking this Sam Worthington chap - I think he is still smarting over his clash with Ricki a gazillion years ago.
"Yet another Aussie pushing for Phoenix spot
Another day, another little-known Australian triallist arrives at the Wellington Phoenix."
I am really disliking this Sam Worthington chap - I think he is still smarting over his clash with Ricki a gazillion years ago.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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OK, am a bit bored (Gr 11 footy cancelled today) but this has been bugging me for most of the day:
"Yet another Aussie pushing for Phoenix spot
Another day, another little-known Australian triallist arrives at the Wellington Phoenix."
I am really disliking this Sam Worthington chap - I think he is still smarting over his clash with Ricki a gazillion years ago.
You are too kind- he is a w**ker.
"Yet another Aussie pushing for Phoenix spot
Another day, another little-known Australian triallist arrives at the Wellington Phoenix."
I am really disliking this Sam Worthington chap - I think he is still smarting over his clash with Ricki a gazillion years ago.
You are too kind- he is a w**ker.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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Win at all costs. I used to be in the camp of win but try to bring as many Kiwi's through as possible but I've moved to the 'at all costs camp' now.
I don't even buy into the 'similar skills, go for the Kiwi' line. Ricki and his coaching staff must know what they want from each player and if one is even slightly better than the other/ slightly more suited to the clubs system, go for that one. You don't win a championship by compromising here and there.
The reason why I've shifted into the win at all costs camp is simple, it not only allows me to drunkly sing the night away in celebration with the rest of you in the short term, it's also the best thing for New Zealand Football in the long term.
Why is this better in the long tern than giving a few more Kiwis a spot now? Because we all agree a winning team will spark a greater public interest, this will lead to more kids taking up the game and more money in every level of the game.
The other thing is, these kids will be coming into a culture where they have a chance to turn pro, but they'll know that they have to work for it, as opposed to falling back on their birth certificates. Therefore, by leaving a few so-so players to play in the NZFC now, we'll give ourselves a better chance of creating more top draw, hardworking pros down the road.joachim2011-08-07 16:16:44
I don't even buy into the 'similar skills, go for the Kiwi' line. Ricki and his coaching staff must know what they want from each player and if one is even slightly better than the other/ slightly more suited to the clubs system, go for that one. You don't win a championship by compromising here and there.
The reason why I've shifted into the win at all costs camp is simple, it not only allows me to drunkly sing the night away in celebration with the rest of you in the short term, it's also the best thing for New Zealand Football in the long term.
Why is this better in the long tern than giving a few more Kiwis a spot now? Because we all agree a winning team will spark a greater public interest, this will lead to more kids taking up the game and more money in every level of the game.
The other thing is, these kids will be coming into a culture where they have a chance to turn pro, but they'll know that they have to work for it, as opposed to falling back on their birth certificates. Therefore, by leaving a few so-so players to play in the NZFC now, we'll give ourselves a better chance of creating more top draw, hardworking pros down the road.joachim2011-08-07 16:16:44
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Win at all costs. I used to be in the camp of win but try to bring as many Kiwi's through as possible but I've moved to the 'at all costs camp' now.
I don't even buy into the 'similar skills, go for the Kiwi' line. Ricki and his coaching staff must know what they want from each player and if one is even slightly better than the other/ slightly more suited to the clubs system, go for that one. You don't win a championship by compromising here and there.
The reason why I've shifted into the win at all costs camp is simple, it not only allows me to drunkly sing the night away in celebration with the rest of you in the short term, it's also the best thing for New Zealand Football in the long term.
Why is this better in the long tern than giving a few more Kiwis a spot now? Because we all agree a winning team will spark a greater public interest, this will lead to more kids taking up the game and more money in every level of the game.
The other thing is, these kids will be coming into a culture where they have a chance to turn pro, but they'll know that they have to work for it, as opposed to falling back on their birth certificates. Therefore, by leaving a few so-so players to play in the NZFC now, we'll give ourselves a better chance of creating more top draw, hardworking pros down the road.
I don't even buy into the 'similar skills, go for the Kiwi' line. Ricki and his coaching staff must know what they want from each player and if one is even slightly better than the other/ slightly more suited to the clubs system, go for that one. You don't win a championship by compromising here and there.
The reason why I've shifted into the win at all costs camp is simple, it not only allows me to drunkly sing the night away in celebration with the rest of you in the short term, it's also the best thing for New Zealand Football in the long term.
Why is this better in the long tern than giving a few more Kiwis a spot now? Because we all agree a winning team will spark a greater public interest, this will lead to more kids taking up the game and more money in every level of the game.
The other thing is, these kids will be coming into a culture where they have a chance to turn pro, but they'll know that they have to work for it, as opposed to falling back on their birth certificates. Therefore, by leaving a few so-so players to play in the NZFC now, we'll give ourselves a better chance of creating more top draw, hardworking pros down the road.
That a pretty good summary.
I agree.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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I may be wrong {often am} but was the licence given to the Nix and the argument put to the AFC that the Nix will help develop football in NZ and the greater group which is Oceania ... meaning my understanding is a large part of the Nix being in the A-League was to develop football in NZ...
If I am right does this change the debate towards NZ football needs to assist the Nix in player development so players are developed in the juniors ready for being considered for an A-League position...
I think the broader question is with such a huge player pool i.e. the entire nation why is the Nix carrying the can for player development ... surely the development of players must be in the first instance the role of NZ football ... the best should then be presented to the Nix to take to the next stage...
If I am right does this change the debate towards NZ football needs to assist the Nix in player development so players are developed in the juniors ready for being considered for an A-League position...
I think the broader question is with such a huge player pool i.e. the entire nation why is the Nix carrying the can for player development ... surely the development of players must be in the first instance the role of NZ football ... the best should then be presented to the Nix to take to the next stage...
Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei
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Win! Win! Win! Win!
Central Hawkes Bay Nix
and tragic follower of Charlton Athletic
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Glad to see the poll results disagree with the majority of posts on this thread
Auckland will rise once more
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If we had a whole squad of all Australians and foreigners, then that wouldn't go down well with a lot of fans and the general public. That's why I went for the "little of both" option. In saying that, I think the balance has been ok in the club so far. So don't bring in lots of New Zealanders who aren't as good as other options, but at the same time, have some sort of focus on getting / bringing through New Zealanders who are good enough. To some extent, this is what the club has been doing, and I think they've done ok on this issue.
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@Midfielder: I think you're right that developing Football in this reason was one of the reasons used to justify the Phoenix being allowed to play in the A-League, but my argument is that they can do so more effectively by winning than giving a run to an also-ran.
It's also good to have a professional team in the community with it's players getting involved with things like coaching camps for kids etc and the Phoenix have been excellent with reaching out to the community so tick for another positive in the development column. (some might argue that this is another reason to employ as many top line overseas pros as possible as we're bringing skills in)
@Colvinator: You make a good point but I guess I've been able to take my position because there enough Kiwi's good enough to force their way in on merit. I wonder if I'd change my tune if we were approaching season five and a Kiwi was yet to take the pitch for the Phoenix?
I can't fault the Phoenix, I can't remember thinking 'he wouldn't have got in if he wasn't a Kiwi' was just throwing in my 2 cents worth.
Bring home the toilet bowl lads!
It's also good to have a professional team in the community with it's players getting involved with things like coaching camps for kids etc and the Phoenix have been excellent with reaching out to the community so tick for another positive in the development column. (some might argue that this is another reason to employ as many top line overseas pros as possible as we're bringing skills in)
@Colvinator: You make a good point but I guess I've been able to take my position because there enough Kiwi's good enough to force their way in on merit. I wonder if I'd change my tune if we were approaching season five and a Kiwi was yet to take the pitch for the Phoenix?
I can't fault the Phoenix, I can't remember thinking 'he wouldn't have got in if he wasn't a Kiwi' was just throwing in my 2 cents worth.
Bring home the toilet bowl lads!
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The whole point of the Phoenix was to make a pathway in NZ for New Zealand players. So New Zealand players don't have to constantly go overseas to play professional football, they can play a good level of professional football in their native country.
I don't understand the "winning at all costs mentality" by constantly buying foreigners because it has proven to be unreliable and expensive. Terry will save money in the medium to long term by having a Phoenix youth academy system and a reserve squad in the ASB Premiership.
Nuturing local talent always pays dividends in the long run. Spotted early and nutured, local talent will always expose the unpredictability of foreign born talent because the technical ability is already known way in advance and can be continually worked on and improved. The foreign born players ability is always largely based on opinions that are usually biased and dated.
Some of the most admired clubs in English football continually churn out players via their youth development policy (think Palace, OPR and a few others) rather than buying "instant success".
This is the logical way forward.
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The whole point of the Phoenix was to make a pathway in NZ for New Zealand players. So New Zealand players don't have to constantly go overseas to play professional football, they can play a good level of professional football in their native country.
I don't understand the "winning at all costs mentality" by constantly buying foreigners because it has proven to be unreliable and expensive. Terry will save money in the medium to long term by having a Phoenix youth academy system and a reserve squad in the ASB Premiership.
Nuturing local talent always pays dividends in the long run. Spotted early and nutured, local talent will always expose the unpredictability of foreign born talent because the technical ability is already known way in advance and can be continually worked on and improved. The foreign born players ability is always largely based on opinions that are usually biased and dated.
Some of the most admired clubs in English football continually churn out players via their youth development policy (think Palace, OPR and a few others) rather than buying "instant success".
This is the logical way forward.
Because the NZ players who are available are largely sh*te.
When the Nix got into the semi finals a few years ago they had massive crowds and there was huge excitement around. When they don' do well, it's the opposite. That's the problem with having NZ players who aren't up to it.
I like tautologies because I like them.
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I've said it before, so just the short version. All else being equal, the preferred origin for a player is:
1. Wellington.2. Other Australasian city.
3. Anywhere else in the world.
This is actually for practical reasons - players having an easy transition to life at the 'Nix and preserving (creating?) the club identity.
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