Wellington Phoenix Men

Sky changes

272 replies · 11,257 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Rugby makes them money the first time they play it I think is the point, after that it doesn't really matter. I would think of it like this, daytime TV doesn't make TV channels any money they make all their money during prime time. Im guessing it is exactly the same as Sky, they make there money at nights and on weekends. Rugby makes them money at primetime and so they are happy to show it other times. The A-League does not  (I presume)
If it is the case that they are cutting A-League coverage it is sh*te though

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Just make a football channel and let people choose channels they want
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So Sky doesn't bother with Public service then? Well thats bullsh*t.
If you don't want to play the games, then don't buy the right for them and let someone else get it cheaper.

No triple repeat of the playoff for 3rd Division Manuwatu vs Taranaki in the 1993 cup should ever take precidence over MV vs AU.


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thanks for putting things in perspective there, TBdFSOE.--great first post!

For me its yet another aspect of the fragmented state of football in New Zealand generally.

Anyway,re: two points you make... you suggest...."I believe there are many things that could be done at no significant extra cost that could massively enhance their football coverage...."
What did you have in mind?

The other...
 
[Quote] The best solution is to find a genuine audience of 20,000 people who watch what they say they will, act in concert, and wield some financial muscle through their subscriptions... but sadly that doesn't currently exist. 
It strikes me that, if there are over 200,000(?) registered footballers in NZ surely at least 10% or 20,000 live in the Central to Lower North Island/ Wellington catchment and either come to Nix games..or follow the Nix via Sky, the net or other means? (Let alone the Nix supporters,elsewhere in the country.. and the World)
Further, those Nix followers have family members who are followers too.
Perhaps that 20,000 you talk of does exist ..its just they haven't been surveyed,called,emailed..had "the conversation" with..YET.
They just aren't organised or haven't been galvanised into action....Yet!
Perhaps something YF, Wellington Phoenix and interested football authorities could survey soon, so they can gauge the latent "muscle" there actually is within the football community.
RedGed2009-07-27 02:09:23

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TBdFSOE wrote:

�


Football is a more complex case, due to the variety of product available.� English Premier League football brings in a significant number of subscriptions for SKY - hence why they pay top dollar for the broadcast rights year after year.� It was one of the first significant products the company had, before they had rights to rugby, league or cricket, and was also one of the first to be moved to the satellite network from the UHF option... and the subscribers have followed, paying their money and showing their value... and in return they get numerous live matches, highlights shows, previews etc.

�

The sad reality is that other football - namely A-League and local NZ stuff - simply doesn't have the numbers.� And more to the point, with perhaps a few hundred excpetions (if that) it doesn't bring in any extra subscribers (out of the current nationwide pool of 750,000)... if 10,000 new subscriptions were taken up purely for Phoenix/A-League games, and the audience numbers shot up similarly, then the powers that be would sit up, take notice and respond accordingly.� But so far they've had no reason to.

�

Some people claim there is a big silent audience that would watch domestic football, for example if it was on... and yet several years ago, when SKY broadcast an NZFC highlights show each week, the audience numbers were lucky to exceed four figures in many instances... granted, it wasn't helped by the talentless git doing the game highlight voiceovers, but the facts are that the "people" saying they needed/deserved/were entitled to such a show, didn't consume the product on offer and the numbers clearly illustrated that. The times when matches are shown, like an NZFC final or whatever, is usually because either NZF pays for the cost of the broadcast, or SKY simply decides to do them a favour (which they are under no obligation to do).

�

With the A-League, it is most likely a case of cost outweighing return... unlike the English stuff, which is purchased ready-made, the Phoenix coverage needs to be produced locally... for example, last season there would be four presentation/commentary�"staff" per match, plus editors etc to make buildup highlights, match coverage director and producer - all flown down from Auckland for every home match... that adds up to a lot of money across a season, and despite any contribution from the club or FFA, it most likely wasn't recouped back, let alone exceeded, by revenue.� Perhaps a revamp this year, with one staffer instead of four, makes better financial sense... perhaps that one person makes his own way to Wellington, or accepts a lesser per match fee... and did the quality of product produced by four really justify the extra cost, if one is seen as doing an adequate job for the audience?� these are the things that I imagine would factor into SKY's thinking, rather than what to football audience is "entitled" to.�

�

When the Kingz were in existence, costs were less as the broadcast sites were in Auckland, and it wasn't until Season 2 that the audience numbers allowed the cost of televising to approach break-even point... and after that it steadily declined... Phoenix audience numbers may be up, but there are greater costs too... all comes back to numbers.

�

�Now I'm no SKY apologist, and I believe there are many things that could be done at no significant extra cost that could massively enhance their football coverage - but at the end of the day they are making business decisions.� And they will know that even if people angry with this decision�do cancel their subscriptions, it will only number in the hundreds, maybe less ... and they will no doubt be recouped in other ways.

�

The best solution is to find a genuine audience of 20,000 people who watch what they say they will, act in concert, and wield some financial muscle through their subscriptions... but sadly that doesn't currently exist.� If SKY lost English Prem coverage, they would lose a big number of subscriptions - if they stop showing A-League, they'll lose hardly any.

�

And the cost of producing match day coverage will preclude any of the free-to-air networks from picking it up, unless they find a sponsor with big cash.

�

Hate to sound all gloomy and depressing, and am not suggesting people don't contact SKY to voice their thoughts - that's your right as a customer.� But just expect to hear numbers - more football hours broadcast than any other sport, a wide range of product, demand in other areas etc.



The simple fact is that when most Phoenix fans also watch the premiership there is little that could be done in terms of cancellations - people want to watch that and aren't going to cancel their subs.

Second, pay TV is supposed to be about choice. SET UP A FOOTBALL CHANNEL and give people the opportunities rather than cancel the matches and leave people without a subscription or an option to watch the matches.

Thirdly, you are apologising for SKY because these are all exactly the arguments that they are going to put forward. Sky is a business, but it is a business that exists for its customers. If it makes a decision that pisses them off but which they can do very little about because they want to watch the premiership then that's f**ked. The fact is that less content dilutes the existing content. If you remove the f**king other matches then the remaining phoenix matches mean jack because everyone knows that the level of interest will drop if you can't watch the other matches . This is such a kick in the f**king teeth, and sky have been doing it for years (who remembers that the premiership was the ONLY sport not screening on SKY 1 when digital came in meaning EVRY sad f**ker had to spring out where if all you wanted to watch was code you just bought the $16 a month pack).

Sorry for the rant but this i the beginning of a very slippery slope

PS: save costs, stop wasting money flying those auckland guys down and get some decent local people who are on the ground involved. And you simply do not need 4 commentators (well 3 plus that lout elrich who can barely string a sentence ogether and fred who puts you to sleep) for a football matchjames dean2009-07-27 08:57:29

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Play devil's advocate here JD.
 
If I'm a Sky shareholder why would I want them to increase their cost base (extra channel) to gain no or very few additional customers when they could reduce their cost base (dropping matches) and lose no or very few customers.
 
Fact is, like so many industries in New Zealand, Sky is an effective monopoly and there is sweet f*ck all anyone can do about it.  Short of doing something crazy they can pretty much show what they like and you'll all pay for it.  And so will I, sadly.
 
It is a by-product of living in a tiny out of the way hamlet at the bottom of the world without the population to support significant competition.
Smithy2009-07-27 09:09:34

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's difficult without the actual figures and I've just got back from 2 weeks holiday so I don't want to get myself to worked up (relax Jono, relax Tricia is saying in the background)...but if that's your argument you'd have 4 sports, maybe 5

Prem League football
Rugby
League
Cricket
Maybe Golf
Maybe in some cases american sport

They are the only sports that would encourage people to sign up. BUT the rest of it provides a backgrund that people like. I'm not the one making the decision but it's not just as simple as saying that makes no money so let's cut it, and I don't believe that is how decisions are made.

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

You're right, at least in part, because they have to fill up their airspace with something.

As you, I think, pointed out they know exactly what rates and what doesn't.  Marry that up against what costs what and I think that would be the starting point for any decision on content.

If there was some other factor to sway them from that starting point (like viewer anger) then sure, but I don't believe we have that in football.  So we're stuck with it.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
 

[edited - read the whole thing above, plus the earlier post by TBdFSOE] 
 
Save costs, stop wasting money flying those auckland guys down and get some decent local people who are on the ground involved. And you simply do not need 4 commentators (well 3 plus that lout elrich who can barely string a sentence together and fred who puts you to sleep) for a football match
 
(Having trouble with the font. Must have stuffed up some code. Sorry, guys. Feel free to fix it.) 
 
First, great post, TBdFSOE. I don't see you as an apologist for Sky. Just someone who has thrown some articulate and reasoned thinking into the debate. Not everyone will like it. And you've seriously p*ss*d off james dean.  But that's what fan sites do to people.
 
Now, james dean, re wasting costs. Most of the crew who can manage this - cameras, switching, the multi-camera OB (outside broadcast) thing, live in Auckland. They're the same guys (men and women) who do it regularly.
 
Sky flies some of them around the country to cover all sorts of sporting events, because, like footballers, the crew need to maintain 'match fitness'. Which they do by 'playing' regularly. For Sky, it's the most cost-effective way to handle it.
 
I do agree with the idea of using fewer front men. The local team we've had so far just doesn't cut it. Sorry.  
 
Now there might well be a knowledgeable football commentator in Wellington who could inject enthusiasm and interest into Nix home games. And there might be a 'comments' man' - essential - who's also Wgton based.  
 
I don't know of any off the top of my head. Others on this site might.
 
Confession: I (gently)took the p*ss out of HN earlier in this thread. Sorry, HN, I thought you were less than serious about Sky and the A-League. Didn't know your 'sauces' were so good.
 
So, how about someone marking the  discussion as a Hot Topic ! 
 
It's generating enough heated debate to melt the whole site. 
scribbler2009-07-27 09:58:36
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
scribbler wrote:
Now there might well be�a knowledgeable football commentator in Wellington who could�inject enthusiasm and interest into Nix home games.�And there might be a 'comments' man' - essential - who's also Wgton�based.��


Piney and Chote
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
scribbler wrote:
So, how about someone marking the  discussion as a Hot Topic ! 
 
It's generating enough heated debate to melt the whole site. 
 
Don't know what you mean by this so please stop asking.  Thanks.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
scribbler wrote:
Now there might well be a knowledgeable football commentator in Wellington who could inject enthusiasm and interest into Nix home games. And there might be a 'comments' man' - essential - who's also Wgton based.  


Piney and Chote


+1 for that El G, though would TV's gain be a loss for radio? Or could they do both at the same time?
RedGed2009-07-27 10:33:51

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I don't get it. TBdFSOE's post was largely about the costs of production. But I don't see any suggestion that Sky will stop covering Phoenix matches. I doubt they would do that from a business perspective.

I thought the issue was other A-League matches where local production costs are somewhat irrelevant (I would have thought - although I don't know how cross obligations etc work).

Have I got that right?

I know, I know, its serious!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
My guess is that they probably pay for a package of A League matches.  Could be more complicated than that though, with the FFA giving them a certain amount of product for free in exchange for them televising Phoenix matches.
 
Who knows.
 
The evidence does suggest that it's a cost-saving measure for them to cut back on non-Nix A League matches.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Likely an issue about buying anything more than the "certain amount", I would surmise.

I know, I know, its serious!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
it doesnt help that even if we get a wellington team, they end up having to pay for them to go to the two away "home" matches anyway.
People can forget about a dedicated football channel as well.
Unless sky can broker deals with some very large companies it would be hugely expensive as they would have to purchase most of the content from offshore, and I dont know who has the oceania/pacific/ aus rights to a lot of cometitions as they all broker thier own deals. To put all that content on one channel would remove it from existing channels. and Sky purchase ESPN as a package intact and have no say in what content is shown. they would be effectively doubling up content as ESPN has english FA matchs, CL matches, Europa league matchs, La Liga, Serie A, and maybe the Scootish PL (the Setanta debacle is still being sorted out)
 
NZ is just too small for a dedicated football channel
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
NZ is just too small
 
And that sums that up pretty well...

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
we're not that small we're the same poulation as Sydney minus the Kiwis there .

one day we will have set top that are run off pod casts etc... until then we will have to make do with what we've got.....

they will always show the nix and epl, I hope!!!!!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Would be Gutted if they chopped the rest of the A-League games, because as an up and coming player and football fan its good to watch all the games and therefore see what the Phoenix will be playing the next week.

Why chop the other A-League games, its a joke what other sport is on at that time??
 
Guess well have to wait and see
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Repeats of......oval ball type games??
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
scribbler wrote:
So, how about someone marking the  discussion as a Hot Topic ! 
 
It's generating enough heated debate to melt the whole site. 
 
Don't know what you mean by this so please stop asking.  Thanks.
 
Okay. I'll stop asking. Feeling suitably contrite and chastened for badgering you.
 
But wait. What's that red thing on the YF front page?  With a yellow letter sticking out?
 
Could it be a "Hot T*p*c"  icon for this thread?
 
Nah... won't happen. That idea got well the truly buried by someone important.
 
lol
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Im not that fussed about other A league matches personally.  Have yet to watch one.  Too many other things to do..and occasionally watch.  Id rather they bought a euro highlights package than cover other A league games.  Or other leagues outside of Europe just to freshen things up.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I watch over 90% of them.  Always a good excuse to nip in to the Kings for a couple of quiets late in the evening. 

Know your enemy I say.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I try to watch every game. Can't get enough football, especially when it's even semi-Nix related valeo2009-07-27 20:01:11

a.haak

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I watch over 90% of them.  Always a good excuse to nip in to the Kings for a couple of quiets late in the evening. 

Know your enemy I say.


Same, its my friday and saturday night entertainment really.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Torne wrote:
Hard News wrote:
I watch over 90% of them.  Always a good excuse to nip in to the Kings for a couple of quiets late in the evening. 

Know your enemy I say.


Same, its my friday and saturday night entertainment really.


same here but i normally watch any sports which is on but if the a league is on im watching
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I watch as many as I can, Junior gunmen and hios family do and even my parents watch them. Nothing better than a decent game of "live" football to watch.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

 Two new teams in the A-league so extra games to watch,
perfect excuse to get mySky.... 'course they'll show them all, I thought.


  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
On the night of Thursday August 6, when Melbourne play CCM at 10pm NZT in the A-League's opening fixture for the 2009/10 season, SKY have the following scheduled...
 
Sky Sport 1: Grassroots Rugby, The Crowd Goes Wild
Sky Sport 2: World of Golf, Classic Rugby League matches
Sky Sport 3: Kayaking, Premier League World
 
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
those things always change though.... I'm sure they'll show it
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
On the night of Thursday August 6, when Melbourne play CCM at 10pm NZT in the A-League's opening fixture for the 2009/10 season, SKY have the following scheduled...
 
Sky Sport 1: Grassroots Rugby, The Crowd Goes Wild
Sky Sport 2: World of Golf, Classic Rugby League matches
Sky Sport 3: Kayaking, Premier League World
 
 
 


Kayaking?

a.haak

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
On the night of Thursday August 6, when Melbourne play CCM at 10pm NZT in the A-League's opening fixture for the 2009/10 season, SKY have the following scheduled...
 
Sky Sport 1: Grassroots Rugby, The Crowd Goes Wild
Sky Sport 2: World of Golf, Classic Rugby League matches
Sky Sport 3: Kayaking, Premier League World
 

Wow that's pretty Bad.

I could see why they wouldn't show A league matches over NPC or NRL or any other LIVE sport for that matter, but that there is pretty sad.

If it does cost them a lot to broadcast that game, then i guess its understandable not to have it. But i always thought that if you had the rights to Kingz or NIx games you had the rights to the rest of the Leauge. (Of cource i could be compleatly worng)

All Aboard the Phoenix/ All Whites Bandwagon!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The only reason I can see for sky not showing these matches is that there not part of a package and they would have to pay for them... but many people have suggested they are part of package so how can Kayaking be played ahead of LIVE sport on a chanel that bills themselves as being the home of sport?

No doubt this kayaking will be from the 2003 world champs aswell.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Really dissapointed, when can we expect Sky themselves to say what's going on?
You know we belong together...

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah would really like to hear a press release from SKY telling us what their reasons are. They could be Fully Justified.

All Aboard the Phoenix/ All Whites Bandwagon!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
are you serious they have crap over the opening game that pis*es me off big time, Iraqgoals it is... clark007e2009-07-27 21:10:51
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

What time do those programs start LF1?Because there is NPC that night which they will most certainly be showing. So it could be open to change

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:

What time do those programs start LF1?Because there is NPC that night which they will most certainly be showing. So it could be open to change



10pm
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:

What time do those programs start LF1?Because there is NPC that night which they will most certainly be showing. So it could be open to change

 
Yep, that'll be on obviously - the programmes I listed were from 9.30/10pm
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