Take the Sydney hat off please.
Take the Tard hat off please.
Take the Sydney hat off please.
Take the Tard hat off please.
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Take the Sydney hat off please.
Take the Tard hat off please.
Jaza - Sydney outclassed us on on the day but if you don't think that wasn't a deliberate handball you are just kidding yourself. He brings his arm up and around to ensure he makes contact. His arm actually ends up in front of him!
It got you back in front and, fair enough, from there you took advantage of our enforced change in tactics and shut us out. But not a deliberate handball? Give me a break.
It got you back in front and, fair enough, from there you took advantage of our enforced change in tactics and shut us out. But not a deliberate handball? Give me a break.
Its not deliberate.
His arm is out. And when he turns the top of his body and head in towards the ball. His arm trails behind it.Stefan2010-03-14 21:28:30
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Many positive comments about reffing standards being poor and the lack of sportsmanship shown by the Sydney player and team. The player should have been booked - which would have seen him sent off later in the game. - at the very least for deliberate handball. The ref was in no position to say it was ball to hand. If a defender had done the same thing without scoring the goal the result would have been a penalty and a red card. How the Assistant Ref didn't see the intentional handball from Sydney's left back also surprises me.
The handball goal did change the match because it meant that the Phoenix had to chase the game which played into the 'hands' of the Sydney team who could then take advantage of the gaps at the back. We can only imagine what might have been if the ref had been more observant, and his Assistant Referees.
We now know how Ireland felt and it is not a pleasant feeling knowing that cheating enabled one team to win what should have been a closer game.
It is also worth noting that A-League match report makes no mention of the handball controversy saying that it was an easy win for Sydney - can't see that that the official website should have such unbiased or weak reporting on its website - sort of demeans the quality of their site.
To finish - I am extremely proud of being a Phoenix supporter and of the team. They have achieved awesomely this season and really brought soccer to light in Wellington and New Zealand. The quality of Ricky Herbert and Andrew Durrante has been a pleasure to see and listen to. Here's to hoping that one or two more signings will give us the boost for next season. And we really do need to sign Mr Reddy - he and the backline have been awesome, no discredit to Mr Pasten intended, but Reddy seems in a different class at the moment.
Go The Phoenix.
The handball goal did change the match because it meant that the Phoenix had to chase the game which played into the 'hands' of the Sydney team who could then take advantage of the gaps at the back. We can only imagine what might have been if the ref had been more observant, and his Assistant Referees.
We now know how Ireland felt and it is not a pleasant feeling knowing that cheating enabled one team to win what should have been a closer game.
It is also worth noting that A-League match report makes no mention of the handball controversy saying that it was an easy win for Sydney - can't see that that the official website should have such unbiased or weak reporting on its website - sort of demeans the quality of their site.
To finish - I am extremely proud of being a Phoenix supporter and of the team. They have achieved awesomely this season and really brought soccer to light in Wellington and New Zealand. The quality of Ricky Herbert and Andrew Durrante has been a pleasure to see and listen to. Here's to hoping that one or two more signings will give us the boost for next season. And we really do need to sign Mr Reddy - he and the backline have been awesome, no discredit to Mr Pasten intended, but Reddy seems in a different class at the moment.
Go The Phoenix.
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I've seen it again today, and I cannot accept it wasn't deliberate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone
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Focus on what has been a great season and move on.
We will if you move on also (to another forum).
To say we were 'completely outplayed' doesn't hold up with me. That changed the game and it was on 30 minutes so you were given that massive advantage for another 60 minutes of football which saw us expose ourselves at the back to try and make up what we shouldn't have had to make up in the first place.
So this domination was a reward from the referee so I wouldn't take much pride in it.
loyalgunner2010-03-14 22:23:28
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The argument of' ball to hand' is not valid in this scenario as Payne's arm is not in�what would be considered as a natural position for heading the ball�( i.e. straight arm� extended above head). Also the velocity of the ball needs to be taken into consideration too. It was travelling fairly slowly so 'ball to hand' becomes harder to justify. Furthermore, with respect to ' benefit of doubt' clearly in this situation the defending team needs to be given B of D ( not that I'm saying there is any doubt)In Summary if the ref saw this and deemed '�ball to hand ' the league need to look at his suitability at this level.
Best post on this issue.
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Jaza - Sydney outclassed us on on the day but if you don't think that wasn't a deliberate handball you are just kidding yourself. He brings his arm up and around to ensure he makes contact. His arm actually ends up in front of him!It got you back in front and, fair enough, from there you took advantage of our enforced change in tactics and shut us out. But not a deliberate handball? Give me a break.
It got you back in front and, fair enough, from there you took advantage of our enforced change in tactics and shut us out. But not a deliberate handball? Give me a break.
Its not deliberate.
His arm is out. And when he turns the top of his body and head in towards the ball. His arm trails behind it.
And this picture best illustrates the 'unnatural' position of the arm and why the goal should have been disallowed.
But I'm also firmly of the opinion that we were very much second-best for the whole 90 minutes, and probably would have lost even if the goal wasn't awarded (also think 4th goal was offside, but again don't think it matters too much).
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Was going to make my comments last night, but I thought I would wait until I had seen the game again and cooled down. I have read quickly a lot of the threads on the game and these are the things I think.
There was no way that their second goal was deliberate.
My question is that any ball that bounces in the 6 yd box is keepers ball. It was Reedy's fault as much as the defenders.He redeamed himself with a wonderful save in the second half.
Alec Brosque is a class player. Someone suggested that he would not even make the Nix team. This guy knows nothing. His pace alone got him his goal and I wish he was playing for us.
I know that their second doal was a hand ball and it might have made a difference, but overall Sydney were the better side. That had more players that had better skill and also football brains.
Possession was 51 to 49 but the telling stat was shots on target. 18 to 9.
Lastley, there are some people who think that I am anti Tim Brown. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If you look at the fact that Tim plays just behind the strikers and if the service from the flanks is poor and the service to the strikers is also below par, then you are going to get a mid field player that gets caught up the park most of the time and cannot help out our defence.
In the Newcastle game the caught us on the break at least three to four times.
Sydney are a far better side than Newcastle and we got punnished, because Tim was playing far too fat up the park. Not his fault as he would have been playing to instructions.
If you don't believe me, watch the game again and he does not touch the ball once in the first 10m. In the whole game perhaps 9 times, and then he gets dragged for Dadi.I really feel sorry for him.
If the AW's play that tatic we will get smashed.
There was no way that their second goal was deliberate.
My question is that any ball that bounces in the 6 yd box is keepers ball. It was Reedy's fault as much as the defenders.He redeamed himself with a wonderful save in the second half.
Alec Brosque is a class player. Someone suggested that he would not even make the Nix team. This guy knows nothing. His pace alone got him his goal and I wish he was playing for us.
I know that their second doal was a hand ball and it might have made a difference, but overall Sydney were the better side. That had more players that had better skill and also football brains.
Possession was 51 to 49 but the telling stat was shots on target. 18 to 9.
Lastley, there are some people who think that I am anti Tim Brown. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If you look at the fact that Tim plays just behind the strikers and if the service from the flanks is poor and the service to the strikers is also below par, then you are going to get a mid field player that gets caught up the park most of the time and cannot help out our defence.
In the Newcastle game the caught us on the break at least three to four times.
Sydney are a far better side than Newcastle and we got punnished, because Tim was playing far too fat up the park. Not his fault as he would have been playing to instructions.
If you don't believe me, watch the game again and he does not touch the ball once in the first 10m. In the whole game perhaps 9 times, and then he gets dragged for Dadi.I really feel sorry for him.
If the AW's play that tatic we will get smashed.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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Looking at the front-on replay, I think it might be that Payne was trying to use his shoulder to put the ball in the net, having missed with his head. But the ball also missed his shoulder and hit him on the top of the arm as he was swinging his shoulder round.
Not sure what the rulebook says about that, but it could be why the ref interpreted it as 'ball to hand' (i.e. accidental hand ball, if there is such a thing).
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Looking at the front-on replay, I think it might be that Payne was trying to use his shoulder to put the ball in the net, having missed with his head. But the ball also missed his shoulder and hit him on the top of the arm as he was swinging his shoulder round.
�
Not sure what the rulebook says about that, but it could be why the ref interpreted it as 'ball to hand' (i.e. accidental hand ball, if there is such a thing).
BlattersBalls' post I quoted on this page outlines all the issues the ref had to take into account in this incident, and how he essentially failed in that task.
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Was going to make my comments last night, but I thought I would wait until I had seen the game again and cooled down. I have read quickly a lot of the threads on the game and these are the things I think.
There was no way that their second goal was deliberate.
My question is that any ball that bounces in the 6 yd box is keepers ball. It was Reedy's fault as much as the defenders.He redeamed himself with a wonderful save in the second half.
Alec Brosque is a class player. Someone suggested that he would not even make the Nix team. This guy knows nothing. His pace alone got him his goal and I wish he was playing for us.
I know that their second doal was a hand ball and it might have made a difference, but overall Sydney were the better side. That had more players that had better skill and also football brains.
Possession was 51 to 49 but the telling stat was shots on target. 18 to 9.
Lastley, there are some people who think that I am anti Tim Brown. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If you look at the fact that Tim plays just behind the strikers and if the service from the flanks is poor and the service to the strikers is also below par, then you are going to get a mid field player that gets caught up the park most of the time and cannot help out our defence.
In the Newcastle game the caught us on the break at least three to four times.
Sydney are a far better side than Newcastle and we got punnished, because Tim was playing far too fat up the park. Not his fault as he would have been playing to instructions.
If you don't believe me, watch the game again and he does not touch the ball once in the first 10m. In the whole game perhaps 9 times, and then he gets dragged for Dadi.I really feel sorry for him.
If the AW's play that tatic we will get smashed.
There was no way that their second goal was deliberate.
My question is that any ball that bounces in the 6 yd box is keepers ball. It was Reedy's fault as much as the defenders.He redeamed himself with a wonderful save in the second half.
Alec Brosque is a class player. Someone suggested that he would not even make the Nix team. This guy knows nothing. His pace alone got him his goal and I wish he was playing for us.
I know that their second doal was a hand ball and it might have made a difference, but overall Sydney were the better side. That had more players that had better skill and also football brains.
Possession was 51 to 49 but the telling stat was shots on target. 18 to 9.
Lastley, there are some people who think that I am anti Tim Brown. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If you look at the fact that Tim plays just behind the strikers and if the service from the flanks is poor and the service to the strikers is also below par, then you are going to get a mid field player that gets caught up the park most of the time and cannot help out our defence.
In the Newcastle game the caught us on the break at least three to four times.
Sydney are a far better side than Newcastle and we got punnished, because Tim was playing far too fat up the park. Not his fault as he would have been playing to instructions.
If you don't believe me, watch the game again and he does not touch the ball once in the first 10m. In the whole game perhaps 9 times, and then he gets dragged for Dadi.I really feel sorry for him.
If the AW's play that tatic we will get smashed.
Leggy's longest ever post and no mention of Tony Lochhead.
Admirable self-control, mate! 
PS I heard Tim Brown was injured last night. Certainly he was very quiet.
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Was going to make my comments last night, but I thought I would wait until I had seen the game again and cooled down. I have read quickly a lot of the threads on the game and these are the things I think. There was no way that their second goal was deliberate. My question is that any ball that bounces in the 6 yd box is keepers ball. It was Reedy's fault as much as the defenders.He redeamed himself with a wonderful save in the second half. Alec Brosque is a class player. Someone suggested that he would not even make the Nix team. This guy knows nothing. His pace alone got him his goal and I wish he was playing for us. I know that their second doal was a hand ball and it might have made a difference, but overall Sydney were the better side. That had more players that had better skill and also football brains. Possession was 51 to 49 but the telling stat was shots on target. 18 to 9. Lastley, there are some people who think that I am anti Tim Brown. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you look at the fact that Tim plays just behind the strikers and if the service from the flanks is poor and the service to the strikers is also below par, then you are going to get a mid field player that gets caught up the park most of the time and cannot help out our defence. In the Newcastle game the caught us on the break at least three to four times. Sydney are a far better side than Newcastle and we got punnished, because Tim was playing far too fat up the park. Not his fault as he would have been playing to instructions. If you don't believe me, watch the game again and he does not touch the ball once in the first 10m. In the whole game perhaps 9 times, and then he gets dragged for Dadi.I really feel sorry for him. If the AW's play that tatic we will get smashed.
�
Leggy's longest ever post and no mention of Tony Lochhead.
�
Admirable�self-control, mate!
�
PS I heard Tim Brown was injured last night. Certainly he was very quiet.
�
�
I stick with my comment about Tim- hope he is Ok.
Look I never mentioned Tony L because I thought is was obvious. He was not good. God I hope we do well in SA but I an beginning to have my doubts.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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Oh yeah..
By the way guys.
Andrew Durante scored his first ever A-league goal last night.
By the way guys.
Andrew Durante scored his first ever A-league goal last night.
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Accidential? Ball to hand?? He was doing an airplane impression with his arm away from his body. How can any decent referee allow it when it was the last touch of the ball before it hit the back of the net if he knew about it??? No wonder that Durnate was annoyed at the Referee's answer.
What a load of bollocks.
If that was the answer I got from the ref in a game, I would personally almost consider a walk off.
What a load of bollocks.
If that was the answer I got from the ref in a game, I would personally almost consider a walk off.
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Accidential? Ball to hand?? He was doing an airplane impression with his arm away from his body. How can any decent referee allow it when it was the last touch of the ball before it hit the back of the net if he knew about it??? No wonder that Durnate was annoyed at the Referee's answer.
What a load of bollocks.
If that was the answer I got from the ref in a game, I would personally almost consider a walk off.
What a load of bollocks.
If that was the answer I got from the ref in a game, I would personally almost consider a walk off.
How do you know that is what the ref said? I don't believe he said that for one moment.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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And as for walking off, you are kidding?
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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And as for walking off, you are kidding?
You'll have to forgive AWB. He's a yid.
Three for me, and two for them.
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My apologies for not having read every post so far, except the last 2 pages, but surely it is time FIFA got their act together to allow a video referral to be allowed once or twice by each team during a game. I mean if "World" sports like rugby league etc.,can do so, FFS why can't football do it?
I'm no lover of the Irish (see the film "Blazing Saddles") but they were hard done by in their World Cup qualifier...maybe we should start a revolution in NZ by introducing video referees....also for what it's worth I think Sydney were the better team on Saturday and would probably have won without the assistance of the handball "goal", which in my HO was deliberate, but we will never know will we? Let's learn from another refereeing fiasco and spend our energies towards getting FIFA into the 21st Century instead of moaning about events we can't change.
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banner of the year?
Wow... I like how there appears to be a white splotch right in the middle of that banner too.
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May have been mentioned but in the first half when Brosque went down from Reddy. If it wasn't a penalty then it should have been a card for diving. And Bridge (I think) early on against McKain. No atttempt at the ball and hit him just below the knee. Yellow card with out a doubt.
I think syndey deserved to win but not in the manner in which it happened. We were poor but that was becasue Sydney outplayed us and didn't allow us to play to our strenghts.
Congrats Sydney but we'll get you next year. Just you wait.
Its no longer a problem.
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My apologies for not having read every post so far, except the last 2 pages, but surely it is time FIFA got their act together to allow a video referral to be allowed once or twice by each team during a game. I mean if "World" sports like rugby league etc.,can do so, FFS why can't football do it?
.... I think Sydney were the better team on Saturday and would probably have won without the assistance of the handball "goal", which in my HO was deliberate, but we will never know will we? Let's learn from another refereeing fiasco and spend our energies towards getting FIFA into the 21st Century instead of moaning about events we can't change.
Good idea to try and get something constructive from all this. One thing which seems to me to be anomaly in the rules (clearly set out by SiNZ yesterday, see also p35 FIFA Laws of the Game) is that attempting to score or scoring from a handball is not one of the seven sending off offences, where as attempting to deny the opposition a goal with the hand is.
My non - expert opinion is that attempting to score from handball should also be sending off material since it can be just as influential as preventing the opposition from doing so.
Of course, in this case it would not have made any difference since none of the officials spotted the offending action at the time anyway!!!
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@Zedned
Unfortunately last statement from FIFA officials says they won't introduce video replays.
Shame, with soccer games getting faster and faster each year, referees have to have some kind of tech help. No other way, ref mistakes will mount.
Unfortunately last statement from FIFA officials says they won't introduce video replays.
Shame, with soccer games getting faster and faster each year, referees have to have some kind of tech help. No other way, ref mistakes will mount.
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I'm still broken!
C-Diddy2010-03-15 10:54:51
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
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@Zedned
Unfortunately last statement from FIFA officials says they won't introduce video replays.
Shame, with soccer games getting faster and faster each year, referees have to have some kind of tech help. No other way, ref mistakes will mount.
Unfortunately last statement from FIFA officials says they won't introduce video replays.
Shame, with soccer games getting faster and faster each year, referees have to have some kind of tech help. No other way, ref mistakes will mount.
Yes indeed my friend, I saw that news and I despaired...but the first time I asked my wife to marry me she turned me down too.....but I persevered and we now have 3 grandchildren.....maybe if I (we) persevere with this obsession I now have we will see video refs before I kark it....but time is running out for me...
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Does anyone have a HUGE problem with the Ref telling Durante, that he didnt see the hand ball after the goal was score, and then at half time telling him he did. <!-- Message ''"" -->
I know we are all fuming that the goal got allowed, but for a REF to change his story, surly FIFA must look into it.
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My apologies for not having read every post so far, except the last 2 pages, but surely it is time FIFA got their act together to allow a video referral to be allowed once or twice by each team during a game. I mean if "World" sports like rugby league etc.,can do so, FFS why can't football do it?
.... I think Sydney were the better team on Saturday and would probably have won without the assistance of the handball "goal", which in my HO was deliberate, but we will never know will we? Let's learn from another refereeing fiasco and spend our energies towards getting FIFA into the 21st Century instead of moaning about events we can't change.
Good idea to try and get something constructive from all this. One thing which seems to me to be anomaly in the rules (clearly set out by SiNZ yesterday, see also p35 FIFA Laws of the Game) is that attempting to score or scoring from a handball is not one of the seven sending off offences, where as attempting to deny the opposition a goal with the hand is.
My non - expert opinion is that attempting to score from handball should also be sending off material since it can be just as influential as preventing the opposition from doing so.
Of course, in this case it would not have made any difference since none of the officials spotted the offending action at the time anyway!!!
Exactly. I wonder if Fifa would like to address this issue. It needs to be. 2 important instances within months of each other.
Example: A goaly comes out of his box, sliding tackle, misses the ball with his feet and the ball hits hand, red card.
Whether that handball happened against us or anyone else, it should not have been allowed and this law needs to be addressed accordingly. Otherwise we might as well pick up the ball and run with it, we could call it rugby for example.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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I'm still broken!
And in all your scarf sniffing glory on the back page of the dom/post.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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Dont go along with the calls for video technology being used.Not sure what the justification is to believe that even they will get it right.You just have to look at the cock ups made in cricket,league and rugby to see its not all that its made out to be.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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Dont go along with the calls for video technology being used.Not sure what the justification is to believe that even they will get it right.You just have to look at the cock ups made in cricket,league and rugby to see its not all that its made out to be.
Read Lonegunman's post, life isn't perfect but that doesn't mean to say it can't be improved upon. Maybe I could agree with you if it were tried and failed, but we can't even get a freaking trial. I see cock ups every day on the road, does that mean we should all stop driving?
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Perhaps the NZFC could give it a try out first?
"Trailblazers" if you like.
"Trailblazers" if you like.
"Sharing rewards the weak"- Steven Colbert
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Does anyone have a HUGE problem with the Ref telling Durante, that he didnt see the hand ball after the goal was score, and then at half time telling him he did. <!-- Message ''"" -->
I know we are all fuming that the goal got allowed, but for a REF to change his story, surly FIFA must look into it.
Not really, he could have said that he didnt see it as hand ball, makes quite a difference
hepatitis2010-03-15 14:14:32
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Dont go along with the calls for video technology being used.Not sure what the justification is to believe that even they will get it right.You just have to look at the cock ups made in cricket,league and rugby to see its not all that its made out to be.
Read Lonegunman's post, life isn't perfect but that doesn't mean to say it can't be improved upon. Maybe I could agree with you if it were tried and failed, but we can't even get a freaking trial. I see cock ups every day on the road, does that mean we should all stop driving?
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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I've just switched channels & there's a thugby league game on. Ironically there was a video review of a contentious try. It went for nearly 5mins.
Yay..
Yay..
"Sharing rewards the weak"- Steven Colbert
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[. I see cock ups every day on the road, does that mean we should all stop driving?[/QUOTE]Guess im just old fashioned its not something i want see brought into football.It has been in league for some time know and they still cant get it right.Have seen it a number of times the more you slow the picture down the more things seem to change.Would be okay if you could guarantee that what you were getting was better than what we have.But sadly on other sports experience that dosnt seem to be the case.Not really sure why the driving analogy was used.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
The driving analogy was used as an analogy to illustrate that although things aren't perfect they can become almost indispensible. There have been two major injustices done recently in football which should have been easily spotted with video refereeing, and were easily spotted by TV cameras. Referees are only human and can't be expected to see around corners, so what harm would a trial do? If it didn't work, bin it, but why not trial it? Football isn't other sports.
Watching a South American game recently I saw the ref (at a free kick) march out the 10 metres distance, pull a spray can from his pocket and draw a line on the pitch for the players to get behind. The world didn't come to end because of his innovation, nor should it, but I liked his style and liked that he was prepared to do some lateral thinking. I'm not looking for something carved in stone, just an honest attempt to see if it could or would work.
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...evrything has an empty feel today.... 
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe.
20/5/20
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe.
20/5/20
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...evrything has an empty feel today....
Yep, flat as a pancake .. .
Worse than PAX hangover ever was ..
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