Wellington Phoenix Men

The Top 4 Equation. Objective: Catch the Mariners

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The Top 4 Equation. Objective: Catch the Mariners
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Obviously everyone is gutted to have gone down after fighting so bravely in the last minute, regardless of tactics like a 3 man midfield holding off, self-sacrificing trackles, etc. Gutted is good, it means we care. So moving on, here is the equation as I see it:

Team W  D L  PL  PTS 1 Adelaide United FC 8 3  4 15 27 2 Queensland Roar FC 7 5 4 16 26 3 Melbourne Victory FC 8 2 6 16 26 4 Central Coast Mariners FC 6 7 4 17 25 5 Wellington Phoenix FC 6 4 7 17 22 6 Sydney FC 5 5 7 17 20 7 Perth Glory FC 5 4 8 17 19 8 Newcastle Jets FC 3 6 8 17 15
 
The teams below us have all played 17 games as have we, with Sydney 2 points behind and in a slump in form, so as long as we go decently we stay ahead of them. Above, where we need to jump above just one team (given Sydney or Perth don't somehow jump us) Adelaide have 2 games in hand, and Queensland and Melbourne have 1 game in hand on us each, so it is probably out of reach to get up to them. It leaves CCM 3 points above us as the team we need to gain 4 points on given our poor goal differential.
 
Here is their run-in:
 
Perth            (7th)     L-D-W-D-W- L    (8pts)       (home)   31/12
Queensland  (2nd)    L-W-D- D-W-W   (10pts)     (home)   10/01
Melbourne     (3rd)    W-W-L-L-L-W      (9pts)       (away)   16/01
Adelaide         (1st)    L-L-W-D-W-W      (10pts)    (home)   25/01 
And ours:
Newcastle    (8th)      L-D-L-L-W-D       (5pts)       (home)    04/01
Sydney         (6th)      L-D-W-L-L-L        (4pts)      (away)    11/01
Adelaide        (1st)      L-L-W-D-W-W     (10pts)     (home)    18/01
Melbourne      (3rd)     W-W-L-L-L-W      (9pts)     (away)    23/01
 
 
We have a very similar run in with Perth and Newcastle first up the bottom two teams who have beaten some of the best in recent weeks. They play Queensland while we play Sydney, here we  need to pick up some points. Then we both play Melbourne at home and Adelaide away in the final two games.
 
So to gain four points, if they get 2 wins and 2 draws we need 4 wins. Basically we need to match 2 of their results and then for the other 2, if they draw we need to win 2, or if they lose 2 we need to win and draw. If we get 6 points against Newcastle and Sydney, and they only draw or lose against Perth and Queensland who are in much better form, that will be 4-6 points gained. Then we only need to match their results vs highflying Adelaide and Melbourne.
 
Needless to say the league is amazingly even, every team is fighting for something and position in table doesn't necessarily reflect current form.
 
I think CCM have a win and a draw in them, which would mean we need 3 wins or 2 wins and 2 draws. It will come down to the last game for me.
 
Insert your predictions of the above situation eventuating here...
 
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nice analysis....they have to play 1st 2nd and 3rd  which is a big ask plus Perth ,which is a toughee. We have to play 1st 3rd 6th and 8th. Coz of goal difference we need to get 4 more points than them. So if we beat the scum and Sydney....very possible we probably would still need to beat either Melbourne or Adelaide. Assuming CCM have a crap final 4 games. THe odds are hugely against us but we can't give up until its mathematically impossible.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah definitly un uphill battle but it is possible.. For the record, here is a table based on last 6 games form:
 
Queensland       11
Adelaide             10
Wellington           10
Melbourne            9
Perth                     8  
Central Coast        8
Newcastle              4
Sydney                   4
 
 
So we need to take advantage and accumulate 6 points against Sydney and Newcastle. Then hopefully CCM have dropped some and will feel the heat of the rising Phoenix. Also, we have gained 2 points on CCM in the last 6 games but need to gain 4 more in 4 games which is 3 times the pace of closing that gap.
 
hellobeaver2008-12-29 22:44:36
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well we need to get max points from Sydney and Newcastle. While Melbourne and Adelaide I can see us getting 2 possibly 4 points from both of these games combined. We need Perth to upset CCM this week.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So really...
 
Phoenix = 4 games x 3 points = 12
CCM = 4 games x 0 points = 0
 
= phoenix top 4
 
 
Simple

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hellobeaver wrote:

Here is their run-in:
 
Perth            (7th)     L-D-W-D-W- L    (8pts)       (home)   31/12
Queensland  (2nd)    L-W-D- D-W-W   (10pts)     (home)   10/01
Melbourne     (3rd)    W-W-L-L-L-W      (9pts)       (away)   16/01
Adelaide         (1st)    L-L-W-D-W-W      (10pts)    (home)   25/01 
And ours:
Newcastle    (8th)      L-D-L-L-W-D       (5pts)       (home)    04/01
Sydney         (6th)      L-D-W-L-L-L        (4pts)      (away)    11/01
Adelaide        (1st)      L-L-W-D-W-W     (10pts)     (home)    18/01
Melbourne      (3rd)     W-W-L-L-L-W      (9pts)     (away)    23/01
 
 


One thing that still worries me about this is the fact that Adelaide can potentially wrap up the Minor Premiership a few rounds early meaning that they may possibly rest key players after a long season. Great news if they have it covered before they play us, not so good if its against us!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah but we only need 12 points if CCM somehow get 8 points with a 2 wins and 2 draws. We may still need 3 wins though if they can scrape a win and 2 draws.
 
 
With Adelaide potentially winning, hopefully it happens with 2 games to go, so we have an easy game to. But if we still need to close a gap by then and Adelaide are resting it decrease the liklihood of CCM dropping points which is have of this equation. NExt 2 games is where the majority of th gap will be closed if it is to happen though.
hellobeaver2008-12-29 22:47:37
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Another important stat to throw into the mix,  Like the Phoenix the Central Coast have NEVER won 4 games in a row and they haven't put two wins together back to back this season!

Central Coast's last 5 match results are DDWLW

C-Diddy2008-12-29 22:56:13

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hellobeaver wrote:
Yeah definitly un uphill battle but it is possible.. For the record, here is a table based on last 6 games form:
 
Queensland        11          1.83 Points/Match
Adelaide             10          1.67 Points/Match    
Wellington          10           "           "            "
Melbourne           9            1.5 Points/Match
Perth                   8            1.33 Points/Match
Central Coast     8             "           "            "
Newcastle            4           0.66 Points/Match
Sydney                4            "          "             " 
 
 



With 4 games remaining and without looking too deeply at the fixtures list we can assume that on current form with the averages above that we will still be two points off the pace!


Wellington              6.67 Points/4 Matches
Central Coast         5.33 Points/ 4 Matches

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah, but that is in the last 6 games where we would have played similar opposition, there are only 7 other teams in the league. For the final four we know we both play the top two teams but before that we get to play the two worst teams on current form, while they get to play the best and 5th best teams on current form. And while there are 3 pts seperating 1st from 6th on current form, the last 2 teams are a further 4 pts off the 6th best so there is a definite gap there.
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can we just win 

E + R + O

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Spot the Arsenal fan
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The mariners and the jets could face points deduction after their post match brawl. In the case of the mariners, it would be awesome for the nix.

see here:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4806050a1823.html
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

More good news out of that game from the same article, is they lose both strikers for the tricky game against Perth this weekend. A loss and a spanking of the Jets at the Ring of Fire later and we are equal on points, with the potential they could be docked some when the decision comes on Friday, presumably 3?

"Central Coast striker Dylan Macallister was shown a red card for using abusive language during the scuffle, but the panel opted not to increase the minimum one-match sanction for the offence.
Striker Matt Simon also received a yellow card after the melee, meaning both he and Macallister will miss the Mariners' match against Perth in Gosford on Wednesday."
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Don't want to be a pessimist (but I am) but I cannot see us making the top 4 now.

^They wont get docked points. That would be ridiculous.
valeo2008-12-30 12:58:52

a.haak

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hellobeaver wrote:

More good news out of that game from the same article, is they lose both strikers for the tricky game against Perth this weekend. A loss and a spanking of the Jets at the Ring of Fire later and we are equal on points, with the potential they could be docked some when the decision comes on Friday, presumably 3?

"Central Coast striker Dylan Macallister was shown a red card for using abusive language during the scuffle, but the panel opted not to increase the minimum one-match sanction for the offence.
Striker Matt Simon also received a yellow card after the melee, meaning both he and Macallister will miss the Mariners' match against Perth in Gosford on Wednesday."
 
Good news for us.  Can't see them losing points thou
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think we'd rather get there without teams losing points, wouldn't we??
 
lets just beat Newcastle and Sydney, hope that perth and Q'land win, and then is all down to the Adelaide game!!!

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No, I would rather them lose points and us get there than them not lose points and us not get there.

I doubt they would be deducted though for it, just a fine if anything.

No more Jedinak now (after Perth game) which will make it harder for them too.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
They wont get docked points. That would be ridiculous.


I don't believe it! I actually agree with something you say! Shhh, let this be our secret!


"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bugger that the Mariners won last night, I only saw the first half and was hoping Perth would hold out or sneak a winner
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Victory beating QLand is also a good thing. Any game where Queensland or CCM lose/draw is good for us.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So can we rename this the "catch the Roar" thread now?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I still think the Mariners are the ones Phoenix could most likely catch.  They have Queensland, Melbourne and Adelaide to play - three potential losses.  That would leave Phoenix needing just four points from the last three games to pass them.
 
The Roar have CCM, Adelaide, Sydney and Perth to play and if they win two of those (the last two look likely), Phoenix would need to win all three matches to pass them.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
THEY MUST LOSE!!!!!!!!!!

Central Hawkes Bay Nix
and tragic follower of Charlton Athletic 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

It's a shame that the Queensland-Central Coast match is next up for them. It's a difficult one to know who to want. If Queensland lose and we beat Sydney, we're 4th. But as you say, CCM have the more difficult run-in.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We keep our fngers crossed for your suggestions. It would be a bonus if we beat Sydney and pull off the win on the 18th.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And we can't afford to take Sydney lightly just because we've already beaten them twice and their season's gone down the toilet. It will be a very difficult match. We cannot be the slightest bit complacent.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i think ccm are still the ones to catch and i think queensland should easily beat central coast as they are probably the closest team to the phoenix at the moment who is mid table in ability but on the night anyone can win considering football is a weird game
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
clark007e wrote:
... i think queensland should easily beat central coast ...
 
Really?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I still think the Mariners are the ones Phoenix could most likely catch.  They have Queensland, Melbourne and Adelaide to play - three potential losses.  That would leave Phoenix needing just four points from the last three games to pass them.
 


Tough call given that we have two of those three teams as well and we want to out perform CCM against them. Still the outsiders
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

the equation is quite simple really - we cannot lose! We must beat Sydney, and get at least a draw with Melboune and Adelaide, giving us  a further 5 points finishin on 30. This might - with luck see us walk into 4th. A win against Melbourne would be awesome giving us 7 points from the final 3 games which would see us on 32.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's going to be so damn close these last three rounds...I think our best bet is beating Sydney and taking at least a point from Adelaide at home. Can't see Melbourne away being anything more than a point....but who knows.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He mauy have been right for that particular match, but at the end of the day our version of football beat his!

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Here is the adjusted situation one more round on with 3 (for us) to play:

 

Team

P

W

D

L

Goals

Diff.

Points

1

Adelaide

16

9

3

4

27-17

10

30

2

Melbourne

17

9

2

6

31-24

7

29

3

Central Coast

18

7

7

4

32-24

8

28

4

Queensland

17

7

5

5

25-19

6

26

5

Wellington

18

7

4

7

22-27

-5

25

6

Sydney

18

5

5

8

27-29

-2

20

7

Perth

18

5

4

9

25-36

-11

19

8

Newcastle

18

3

6

9

19-32

-13

15

 
Queensland play:

Venue

Opposition

Table

Last 6

Form

Date

away

Mariners

3rd

DDWLWW

3rd

10/01

away

Adelaide

1st

LWDWWW

1st

14/01

home

Sydney

6th

DWLLLL

8th

17/01

home

Perth

7th

DWDWLL

6th

24/01

 

 Central Coast play:

Venue

Opposition

Table

Last 6

Form

Date

Home

Queensland

4th

WDDWWL

2nd

10/01

Away

Melbourne

2nd

WLLLWW

5th

16/01

Home

Adelaide

1st

LWDWWW

1st

25/01

 

Mighty Phoenix play:                       

Venue

Opposition

Table

Last 6

Form

Date

Away

Sydney

6th

DWLLLL

8th

11/01

Home

Adelaide

1st

LWDWWW

1st

18/01

Away

Melbourne

2nd

WLLLWW

5th

23/01

 
Most notably, is the fact hat QUeenslands loss brings them into our sights, as if they lose their game in hand, they are just one point adrift. So we would need to match their other 2 results and win when they draw, or match 1 result and draw twice if they lose twice.
 
Also, CCM play Queensland this weekend so they either both drop 2 points or one team drops the full three. I don't know who I want to win though. The obvious answer is The Roar as then they would be just one point adrift, but they have an easier run in, with their last 2 games at home to 2 of the bottom 3 teams in form and on the table, in Sydney and Perth.
 
We play Sydney next away which will be tricky, they have lost 4 on the trot and admitted now their season is over. But pride is a big thing to play for.
 
And another possibility is catching Melbourne. If they lose this weekend, Queensland or CCM will go equal or ahead of them.Then they lose their game in hand and draw or lose in the penultimate round and we win we can get within 2 points. We play Melbourne last game of the season so can close that 3 points on them. Obviously that relys on them losing 3 of the next 4 and dropping points in the other, but the recently lost 3 on the trot, so anything's possible. 
 
Either way, I think 7 points will give us a decent chance, beat Sydney away, draw (or we could possibly afford to lose) against Adelaide, and then beat Melbourne at the Dome.
 
What are the odds at the TAB? I'd definitly put a tenner on.
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think if we win 2 out of our last 3,then we should be able to catch someone...win all 3 then itd be more of a definite

Allegedly

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Wibblebutt wrote:
Maybe we should rename this thread "Prove G.V.E. wrong!"
 
 
He's completely right, though. The football we have played this season has been, on the whole, atrocious. But we have got results - so can't really complain too much. I just think that is why we find it hard to beat footballing teams like QLD and Adelaide.
 
I can't see us beating Adelaide. I could see us snatching a win in Melbourne depending on our Melb's form is and what is riding on that game for them. We HAVE to beat Sydney.
valeo2009-01-05 13:59:52

a.haak

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah no doubt about another 3 points this weekend.
 
On last 8 games form, we are equal with Adelade as the best team on 16 points, however they beat us on goal difference, with a +7 against our +2. However, if you take the game we played eachother out of the equation, their difference would be +2 and ours +7, as that was that unmentionable scoreline away.
hellobeaver2009-01-05 14:06:39
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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