Wellington Phoenix Men

Time For Action!

123 replies · 3,299 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Time For Action!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sunday 9th August marks an important date in the short history of the Wellington Phoenix Football Club. It is the first match of Season 5 of the Hyundai A-League, the Phoenix's 3rd Rising and I for one am starting to get a little bit nervous about the clubs fortunes for the coming season!
 
On one hand I believe that the off season recruitment has turned up many exciting prospects including the signing of Diego from Adelaide, Chris Greenacre from Tranmere and the most exciting of all the signing of teenage "sensation" Marco Rojas courtesy of the Yellow Fever's initiative in sponsoring a Scholarship for young Talent in NZ each year. We have also seen some "dead weights" released from the club in order to make room for these new players to fit into the squad.
 
But, somewhat disappointingly, on the other hand I feel quite concerned about the lack of a big name signing to bolster the front line to fill the gap left by that Shane bloke. I totally understand that Ricki, Tony and Co are actively searching for a good fit to slot straight into the vacant position but I feel that they are missing a massive opportunity to raise the profile of the Wellington Phoenix FC not only in NZ but also across the ditch in Australia and potentially in Asia.
 
The way I see it is if the Wellington Phoenix were to secure the signature of a High Profile striker from the European Leagues on a 2-3 Year Contract this would not only signal their ambition to the rest of the A-League but may also make the AFC sit up and take a little notice prompting them to maybe reconsider their decision not allow us into the Asian Champions League should we qualify. It is imperitive that this happens this season as we are into our 3rd and final year of our A-League license and I for one would hate to see Wellington, or New Zealand for that matter, lose their right to have a Professional Football team all because we underachieved on the park.
 
Spending money and securing the signature of a top rated striker would also do wonders for the current squad of players, giving them an opportunity to play alongside someone who has been there and done it on the worlds biggest stage. This would most benefit the younger players of the squad as they would be able to see what it takes to succeed in the game of football!
 
Merchandise sales, memberships and gate receipts would also surely increase with the addition of a big name to the playing roster so a portion of the money invested would be redeemed almost immediately!  
 
I understand that times are very tough financially at the moment but it is at these times when those who dare, win! I just hope the Management of the Wellington Phoenix Football Club have the Intestinal Fortitude to make the right decision for the future of the club, a decision that if made intelligently could be the turning point of the Clubs fortunes and would ensure we have a team to sing for over the next 10 years and hopefully beyond!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

hear! hear!
Hard News2009-07-08 23:36:20

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yup i certainly agree and the thing is, the best time to gain in the business world is in a recession so maybe we should be trying to get out there and picking up some new high profile players
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agreed time is running out and another mid to bottom of the table finish is not going to help phoenixs arguements against the Afc for continued inclusion in the A League and possible inclusion in the Asian Champions League.Another quality striker is absolutely essential.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good call C Diddy    (who wrote that  for you)

A month from today we are in action

And we have the makings of a good solid team, but just 1 or 2 players missing to make us feel like a top 4 threat.

It's good to hear the Nix management are targeting only strikers. It seems that we may be in a position to be able to buy quality, I just hope they do, and some of the outcomes you mentioned will be fulfilled.

I'm not sure how our placing on the table will influence the final outcome of the decision to renew our A League licence,  but for sure if we get into the top 4 this year, we can go to the bargaining table with a bit of bully. Dont think 8th to 10th will cut it, especially if the new boys are ahead of us.

So easy for me to say, but,  be bold Terry, give yourself and us your best shot in this crucial year.

 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I totally agree. Was thinking the same while at work today. We need someone. Someone that will create the buzz that Fowler made.

Ronaldo? Rivaldo? Ronaldo is still in action in Brazil so doubtful but what about Rivaldo? Would generate a huge buzz and he's based somewhere in Asia right? He would also give us the attacking mentality we need?

Who else could create a buzz though? 

If we aim high and try - we could come up with some great result? - and the worst that could happen would be getting told no.

Make an offer for someone like Rivaldo, and even if you get rejected, this would signal the ambitions the club have in a great way.


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Rivaldo is 37 ffs. And he has a 20 odd million dollar contract that runs out in 2011.  Can we please stop throwing random names out there.2ndBest2009-07-09 08:10:57
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Great work C-Diddy, I agree wholeheartedly.

Time to stand up and be counted.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
2ndBest wrote:
Rivaldo is 37 ffs. And he has a 20 odd million dollar contract that runs out in 2011.  Can we please stop throwing random names out there.


I did say someone like Rivaldo.
The point I was trying to make was, sign a name that  will make some noise and Rivaldo was actually a tangible signing in my opinion. I'm not saying we sign him. I'm just talking about his pedigree.

What other player could be used as marquee to draw big crowds and buzz like  Fowler has? Because to be honest, some players who are huge stars overseas and quality players, wouldn't really make a buzz
playwithFire2009-07-09 08:35:46


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Amen.
 
Something needs to be done to arrest the decline - our average crowd in season 1 was around 11,700, our average crowd last season was 7,200. Half our season ticket holders have not renewed so far this season.
 
We need to get our mojo back by winning, playing entertaining football, winning, having a player that the casual supporter will want to see play and winning.
 
Imagine the lift a Robbie Fowler would give the club both on and off the park.
 
I have no doubt that there remains huge support for the Nix in Wellington and crowds can be rebuilt but  I just worry we are drifting.
 
Terry is obviously a very smart businessman and, as he demonstrated with Fred, he can get quality players to the club - I just hope he is on top of the striker recruitment.
Whitby boy2009-07-09 09:00:54
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i couldnt agree more, I think its time we actually put up our hand and said yip, we are ready to win this competition!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Whitby boy wrote:
Amen.
 
Something needs to be done to arrest the decline - our average crowd in season 1 was around 11,700, our average crowd last season was 7,200. Half our season ticket holders have not renewed so far this season.
 
We need to get our mojo back by winning, playing entertaining football, winning, having a player that the casual supporter will want to see play and winning.
 
Imagine the lift a Robbie Fowler would give the club both on and off the park.
 
I have no doubt that there remains huge support for the Nix in Wellington and crowds can be rebuilt but  I just worry we are drifting.
 
Terry is obviously a very smart businessman and, as he demonstrated with Fred, he can get quality players to the club - I just hope he is on top of the striker recruitment.
 
I agree Whitby boy.  I and others (including probably you) were saying this soon after the end of last season.  I don't think the club, for whatever reason, has taken much notice, unfortunately.
 
My view was (and still is) that we needed to build the squad with six or seven new signings with A-League or better experience, and also hopefully sign a marquee-quality player.  With a month to go I'm not optimistic about the coming season - the club hasn't done enough in my view on the squad-strengthening front to really show we mean business in the A-League, or that it understands it is in a competitive entertainment market which requires a high-quality product if it is to appeal week-in, week-out to the general sports public here.
 
Tony P early on after the end of last season dispelled the notion of signing a marquee player, when this could have been an excellent move to regenerate the support we had in the first season and to signal to the A-League that we are real long-term contenders in the competition.  This year had to be the one to invest for the future, because it's only going to get tougher if we underperform this year.  We're definitely the poor cousin of the A-League and we need to produce something extra special, beyond what the Aussie-based clubs have to do, to be noticed and to be taken seriously.
 
I'm also not in the camp that thinks we need a couple of new strikers only to complete the squad.  In my view we also need a midfield playmaker of the quality of Fred - someone who can really make things happen in the midfield (I'm not convinced that Diego alone is the answer, and the other midfielders are nothing special to write home about).  Also I would have liked to see another real quality defender who can really play football out from the back, rather than just be a 'muscle man'.  No disrespect to Aaron Smith (if the rumour about him being signed is correct), but the club is really showing its lack of ambition with some of the signings it makes, namely more of the same. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Aaron Scott.

playwithFire wrote:
What other player could be used as marquee to draw big crowds and buzz like  Fowler has? Because to be honest, some players who are huge stars overseas and quality players, wouldn't really make a buzz


As someone else suggested:



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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah, lets get our already cash strapped owner to spend a ridiculous amount on a marquee that will probably be crocked for half of the season. Terrific idea.

a.haak

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Of course it's terrific idea - the media interest, the membership/merchandise sales, the Aus and Asia would take notice of a former European champion, Real Madrid/Liverppol player coming to play in the A-league.

A signing like that would be a statement of ambition by the club, and would put football firmly back on the agneda here. Like I said, even TV One couldn't ignore a signing of a player like Morientes or someone similar in pedigree to him. Of course wouldn't be cheap, but what a statement it would make.

All right, I'll go and change my pants again.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Would it really increase the crowd much? Doubt it. Would just be a waste of money.

a.haak

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm not traditionally for it, but something needs to be done to inspire and hype things.  At the moment I don't think our side is the worst in the league (assuming two reasonable quality forwards) but we need to show some aspiration, some genuine investment to say we're here to make a mark.

Perth have done that this year already and everyone is talking about them.  The only way people are talking about us is whether the odds offered for us finishing last should be closer to those for North Queensland.

We're not that far off (despite some peoples view) and we have to be realistic that the cap means we can't buy a stack of players but maybe the time has come to take a punt.  A two year deal on someone in their thirties with a real profile will sell tickets, sell merchandise, sell column inches, sell the Phoenix.

I mean yesterday would suggest that if you sign a 19yo who was at United you can get on the front page of the paper, so if you signed who had actually played for a high profile club you can probably get the front page for a week, headline on national news and a law change to make attendance at Phoenix matches mandatory for all New Zealanders.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I'm not traditionally for it, but something needs to be done to inspire and hype things.� At the moment I don't think our side is the worst in the league (assuming two reasonable quality forwards) but we need to show some aspiration, some genuine investment to say we're here to make a mark.Perth have done that this year already and everyone is talking about them.� The only way people are talking about us is whether the odds offered for us finishing last should be closer to those for North Queensland.We're not that far off (despite some peoples view) and we have to be realistic that the cap means we can't buy a stack of players but maybe the time has come to take a punt.� A two year deal on someone in their thirties with a real profile will sell tickets, sell merchandise, sell column inches, sell the Phoenix.I mean yesterday would suggest that if you sign a 19yo who was at United you can get on the front page of the paper, so if you signed who had actually played for a high profile club you can probably get the front page for a week, headline on national news and a law change to make attendance at Phoenix matches mandatory for all New Zealanders.


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I am going to temper that a little by saying that while it's a lofty ambition, the truth is it's not my money I'm hypothetically spending here and for any of this to happen it's going to require Terry to make a LARGE investment of his own.

We're all used to supporting overseas sides who are financially sound(ish) and can rely on huge merchandise sales and (generally) making a profit each year.  Here, even to operate each year we need Terry to hand over his own money each season.

We shouldn't forget that we wouldn't have any of this if it wasn't for one man, and while we'd all like him to spend more there is a chance that we are asking too much of him.

Still:

Dear Terry,

Can we pleaz be having $2m over the next two years to buy a marquee player.

Lubs Yellow Fever.

K
THX
BI.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
Yeah, lets get our already cash strapped owner to spend a ridiculous amount on a marquee that will probably be crocked for half of the season. Terrific idea.
 
The way I see it valeo is that there are two choices for the owner at this stage.  Invest and try and make the Phoenix a real success (either alone or in conjunction with another/other investors) or shut up shop.  If the club doesn't invest, it's simply going to continue haemorrhaging until it reaches the lows of the Kingz and the Knights and FFA tells it to piss off and replaces it with another Aussie team (there won't be any more chances for a NZ side).  We won't survive on 4 or 5,000 fans at home games.  What makes it worse is that the A-League (namely, the other A-League clubs) are progressively improving and we're not keeping up with the pace.
 
I accept your point about the risk of signing a dud marquee player, but I still think the risk is worth taking and should be mitigated with good, careful research.  A good marquee player or a guest player doesn't have to be a former world-famous and/or former world-class player who is looking for a big final pay cheque.  The other thing is it would be silly to over- rely on a marquee player and/or a guest player.  One player alone, doesn't matter who he is, isn't going to win games for the Phoenix.  That requires a good, strong all-round squad. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
What makes it worse is that the A-League (namely, the other A-League clubs) are progressively improving and we're not keeping up with the pace.


I see this again and again, but no one has yet convinced me of it.

Gold Coast - Yes
Perth - Yes
Sydney - A little.

Who else has improved greatly ?
Hard News2009-07-09 12:25:56

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I have read through most of the replies here and noticed one thing that we are all forgetting...
 
The lack of a Major Sponsor. Surely this would no longer be an issue with news of a Major Signing?

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C-Diddy wrote:
I have read through most of the replies here and noticed one thing that we are all forgetting...
 
The lack of a Major Sponsor. Surely this would no longer be an issue with news of a Major Signing?
 
or is it vice versa..the lack of major sponsor is constraining signings or potential signings..which way does the vicious circle go?.
 
Certainly I think presales are a reflection on a lack of "wow this team is going to go places this year"..coupled with a recession.
 
Im a pay as they go person...

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think it would. 

A major sponsor at A-League level generally runs between $250k to $500k a season doesn't it ? 

Assume we're at the lower end of that and we're probably talking #300k to $350k ?

That would cover Fred's guest stint this year though.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Maybe we just have to accept that we are the poor relations to our cross the ditch cousins..and that commercial realities do bite at various times.  It has been a good ride so far..seasons 01 and 02 ..whilst not being up to fans expectations but again there are always disappointed fans of clubs in any league of any sport.

Without another striker if not two we are going to struggle..but hey I have been harping on about this for most of last season and this pre season.

Of course we are passionate about the Nix and what we want but... 
 
Bring it on.....I suspect gates of around 5000 would be a good achievement this season.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C-Diddy wrote:
I have read through most of the replies here and noticed one thing that we are all forgetting...
 
The lack of a Major Sponsor. Surely this would no longer be an issue with news of a Major Signing?


am I correct in saying ahmad elrich was signed around the same time sony became our sponsor? or visa versa?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
axmfc wrote:
What makes it worse is that the A-League (namely, the other A-League clubs) are progressively improving and we're not keeping up with the pace.


I see this again and again, but no one has yet convinced me of it.

Gold Coast - Yes
Perth - Yes
Sydney - A little.

Who else has improved greatly ?
 
I think HN that teams like Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide are also (and have always been) in a different class to us.  They're able to tweak things each season by a little, whereas in our case, at least in my view, we need to do some fairly major overhauling on the player front (and, finally I'm starting to think, possibly on the coaching front) if we're going to get anywhere near mid-table in the league.
 
Also, I think there are signs that CCM will be making several big signings from overseas.  As for Newcastle, the resignation of the coach just before the season's start must be unsettling, however, I wouldn't be surprised if Culina keeps an eye out while he is in Europe and signs a couple of quality players soon. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Boro4eva wrote:

Maybe we just have to accept that we are the poor relations to our cross the ditch cousins..

Don't you dare bend over like that, Aussie will have you.
Just man up ffs
 
auskiwi2009-07-09 15:17:11
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
I think HN that teams like Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide are also (and have always been) in a different class to us.  They're able to tweak things each season by a little, whereas in our case, at least in my view, we need to do some fairly major overhauling on the player front (and, finally I'm starting to think, possibly on the coaching front) if we're going to get anywhere near mid-table in the league.
 
Also, I think there are signs that CCM will be making several big signings from overseas.  As for Newcastle, the resignation of the coach just before the season's start must be unsettling, however, I wouldn't be surprised if Culina keeps an eye out while he is in Europe and signs a couple of quality players soon. 
[/QUOTE]

So what I see you saying there is that no one else has improved but some might, with two strikers to come so 'might' we.

There won't be any overhauling on the player front, there is quite a bit of room to add two strikers. 

We have the best set of three centre back options in the league already (Adelaide will start the season with Cornthwaite and Fyfe - improved ?), our midfield may well need one more flair player, but in Diego and Marco we have already invested in some of that.  If we were to chase Fred again (a good chance) then we'd be even better off.

The reality is we have to operate under a cap, and within the cap (or with a marquee) the critical gaps at this club are up front and...

[QUOTE=Boro4eva]Without another striker if not two we are going to struggle..but hey I have been harping on about this for most of last season and this pre season.


We'll sign two more strikers, if only because we'll be fined if we don't have a squad of 20.  It's the quality of them that is the challenge.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It seems there is a little panic starting to seep into the supporter base, but in his last radio interview Ricki did say they are negotiating with one potential striker who would be an automatic signing, and potentially taking another to China.
 
In the real world there is also a budget to operate with.
 
Are crowds really likely to drop to an average of only 5000?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
axmfc wrote:
I think HN that teams like Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide are also (and have always been) in a different class to us.  They're able to tweak things each season by a little, whereas in our case, at least in my view, we need to do some fairly major overhauling on the player front (and, finally I'm starting to think, possibly on the coaching front) if we're going to get anywhere near mid-table in the league.
 
Also, I think there are signs that CCM will be making several big signings from overseas.  As for Newcastle, the resignation of the coach just before the season's start must be unsettling, however, I wouldn't be surprised if Culina keeps an eye out while he is in Europe and signs a couple of quality players soon. 
[/QUOTE]

So what I see you saying there is that no one else has improved but some might, with two strikers to come so 'might' we.

There won't be any overhauling on the player front, there is quite a bit of room to add two strikers. 

We have the best set of three centre back options in the league already (Adelaide will start the season with Cornthwaite and Fyfe - improved ?), our midfield may well need one more flair player, but in Diego and Marco we have already invested in some of that.  If we were to chase Fred again (a good chance) then we'd be even better off.

The reality is we have to operate under a cap, and within the cap (or with a marquee) the critical gaps at this club are up front and...

[QUOTE=Boro4eva]Without another striker if not two we are going to struggle..but hey I have been harping on about this for most of last season and this pre season.


We'll sign two more strikers, if only because we'll be fined if we don't have a squad of 20.  It's the quality of them that is the challenge.
 
I think there's no doubt that Perth and Sydney have improved. (By the way Perth has now announced it has signed Socceroo defender Chris Coyne on a 3-year contract.  It seems like he might be their last major signing under the salary cap, although they have mentioned they are interested in a big-name player for a guest stint.)
 
But clubs like Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane have also improved (from memory, e.g., Adelaide signed an England-based Ghanaian striker and a Korean midfielder/playmaker, Melbourne signed a Thai international and are looking to sign an overseas central defender), but my point is that their improvements come from a much better base than the Phoenix.  And there's no question that GCU have put together a very formidable squad, although IMO they're dreaming if they think they'll go the season unbeaten.  For that matter Ferguson is assembling a pretty good squad at Nth Q and, for the sake of the A-League, I hope Fowler doesn't turn out to be another dud marquee signing.
 
I agree with you that there isn't now the scope for major surgery to the Phoenix squad, when we've wasted our salary cap and squad places on players like Mulligan and tied them down to contracts of some duration.  However, I think we will really struggle if we don't fill the available squad places with a very good playmaker, even if we manage to sign up two more quality strikers.  In fact, if it were possible to sign only two more players, I'd go for a quality playmaker and a striker.  We have Greenacre as a striker and, hopefully, someone like Costa will by now be an OK back up in the striking position.  I'm not familiar with Marco, but by all accounts he is an exceptional talent.  However, at 17, I'm not expecting huge things from him in his first season at this level, in terms of being someone we should rely on week-in, week-out; to do so would be unreasonable.  The central defence set is OK, but I wouldn't pick them as being the best in the competition.  I would still have liked to have seen a central defender who can play football out from the back.  I don't see Sigmund (particularly him) and co in this mould.
 
Overall HN, I see us sitting below mid-table this season unless the squad can be strengthened with at least two or three real quality players (the two strikers the club is looking for, but preferably in my view a playmaker and two strikers). Even then it's going to be tough, including against the likes of CCM, Newcastle, and Nth Q who I think will be no easy beats.  CCM are looking to sign several overseas players and I'm sure Culina will look to add some quality to Newcastle. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
North Queensland will be rubbish.

Adelaide's signings aren't that great either, and would we really think if we signed a Thai international that we've improved a lot?

Having said that, we really, really need a top forward. Otherwise it'll be a long season. And an even longer off-season.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd go further on those EG.  Owusu has been banging around at the same level as Greenacre for years and hardly set the world alight.  They have lost Ognenovski and replaced him with Fyfe and lost the depth Diego, Costanzo, Valkanis and Salley gave them to have them mainly replaced with youth players.

Last year Sydney had no centre backs apart from Fyfe and now he's gone to Adelaide.

Melbourne have aThai international, but reports are that he's not any better than what they already had, and they have lost a Costa Rican international in return.

Somewhat concerningly I think there is a future for Mully as well.

If he's motivated (which i get the impression is up for debate) then he could be a creative attacking midfield force like he was 10 years ago.

Positionally he's been a disaster at right back, and he looks like he is short on 'give a sh*t' but if anyone can get his head back on the job  the my 'way outside the box' call for the season is for him to re-invent himself as a quality midfielder.

Big 'IF' though.
Hard News2009-07-09 15:49:50

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
North Queensland will be rubbish.

Adelaide's signings aren't that great either, and would we really think if we signed a Thai international that we've improved a lot?

Having said that, we really, really need a top forward. Otherwise it'll be a long season. And an even longer off-season.
 
I've never seen the Thai international play, but from reports I've read he is very good technically and possesses some good skills.  However, I suppose everything's relative el grap.  He might be only a minor improvement for a squad like Melbourne but could be one of the best players (and a big improvement) in the Phoenix squad - it wouldn't take much.
 
I really do see us as needing more than one top forward to prevent this being a long season.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well, obviously we do need to sign more than just one player to get the squad up to required numbers, but a quality forward HAS to be the priority right now.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
How many goals has Greenacre scored so far this pre-season?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
topiary wrote:
How many goals has Greenacre scored so far this pre-season?
 
As many as Costa...

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not true C-Diddy, Costa scored in the matches at Porirua, as did Astroclaus.

Geenacre would have struggled to seeing as wasn't even here.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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