Tony P to pull plug on Phoenix Oly-Whites

121 replies · 2,025 views

almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

There is also injuries to think of as well. Early last season we had about 6 guys injured...if that happens again then with 5 at the Olympics we would struggle to get a match day squad.

Then, unlike the Aus sides who would have to bring in Youth team members we can sign whoever we want for as much as we want as cover.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ronaldunno wrote:

I reckon if we are giving up Costa, Draper and Hearfield to the Olympics...thats enough for one club. If we loose two more then it would be a nightmare. Don't forget that the squads will be away for pre Olympic camps and games. If the Phoenix lost nearly a quarter of their players it impacts on the training too. You can't have mock games with less than 22 players. The whole thing would put a major downer on the start to the Phoenix season.

There is also injuries to think of as well. Early last season we had about 6 guys injured...if that happens again then with 5 at the Olympics we would struggle to get a match day squad.

At the same time I thought the pre-olympic camps were in Wellington. Sounds like a pretty good chance for both teams to get some decent practice matches and for the Phoenix to have a good look at some potential youth signings. I can sort of understand the reluctance to let both of them go but think it should be done anyway if the are required. Hopefully neither of them will be asked but I think it would be a bad move to hold them back if they want to go, for morale, publicity and NZ football.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Does anyone know how many of the Aussie A-League clubs are affected by players going to their olympic team, what ever its call...Wombat Shaggers or something!!!

Hope the Roar have heaps...might even things up a bit for the Phoenix...don't we play them first.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Ronaldunno wrote:

There is also injuries to think of as well. Early last season we had about 6 guys injured...if that happens again then with 5 at the Olympics we would struggle to get a match day squad.

Then, unlike the Aus sides who would have to bring in Youth team members we can sign whoever we want for as much as we want as cover.

Only if it's a season ending injury.

I guess all of the other clubs will be missing key players for the Olympics too - more than us, even if Smeltz and Lochhead do go. Still don't think the Olywhites will even need them. Maybe Lochhead but Killen has pretty much agreed to go.

a.haak

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Overage is a bit of an unknown, but they have a lot more players overses than we do.

However the squad against Togo the other day was:

Dean Bouzanis (gk), Tarek El**ch, Mark Milligan, Aaron Downes, Trent McClenahan, Stuart Musialik, Adam D'Apuzzo, Michael Zullo, Matt Simon, Dario Vidosic, Jason Hoffman.
Subs: Leijer, Zadkovich, Boogaard, Rukavytsya, Velaphi
Inj: Hearfield
Suspended: Dilevski

So Mariners - Simon, Boogard and (when he's allowed) Vukovic
Newcastle - Tarek, D'Apuzzo, Hoffman (and Holland must be a chance)
Perth - Rukavytsya, Velaphi

At the moment Milligan is unemployed but he could be with Musialik and Bridge at Sydney. Clogs could loose collapsible Kruse, Zullo and Minniecon.

There are some more overseas options that may come in as well instead of A-League players.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ronaldunno wrote:

Does anyone know how many of the Aussie A-League clubs are affected by playersï¿½going toï¿½their olympic team, what ever its call...Wombat Shaggers or something!!!

ï¿½

Hope the Roar have heaps...might even things up a bit for the Phoenix...don't we play them first.

They're called the Olyroos - you stole the name from us. That's OK, makes us even for the Pavlova.

Now, the squad that just played Togo in the intercontinental cup was as follows:

edit - beaten by HN. Cheers mate.

I'm not going to sort through it. Obviously it'll be different for the olympics (overage players for a start) but it'll give you an idea.

The Olyroos beat Croatia, Chile and Togo in this tournament so far.

Back on topic, I think this is a very poor choice by the Phoenix - they should be as accomodating of NZ football as possible, olympics or not. We played games without the All Whites last year, and the olympics has a much larger profile than playing crappy Oceanic nations, U23 or not.aussienixfan2008-05-21 18:00:51

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Also - Melbourne - Leigh Broxham, Nick Ward and Billy Celeski

Maybe Faptafta

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Don't think Kruse was selected because of his injuries

a.haak

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

To be honest I think the Phoenix should release them. We should be able to do OK without them.

I hope Ricky and Tony watch the Olympic football closely to look for potential signings either Kiwi or not.

Somebody was asking if they show Olympic football on TV, I know they showed at least the final (Spain vs Cameroon) but I can't remember for sure if that was from Athens 2004 or Sydney 2000.

This may have been covered, but does anybody know if Chris James or Michael White will be available?

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

It's a hard one, I would like to see the olympic team as strong as possible, but the Phoenix have a limited squad to work with. The three young guys already going are all strikers so if we send Smeltz as well, we'll be super thin on options up front. With Lockhead out I would hate to think who would play left back. So releasing them would be a scarifice too big for us to make, so shouldn't happen.

The Olympic team has a much larger pool of players they can pick, surely they can find 3 overage players that would improve the side without there respective club missing them too much. betters2008-05-21 20:35:31

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

great to have a topic that has a 'purpose' (no offence intended Mr and (mrs to be ) Eedjit

)

for me personally (as in what rocks my boat = phoenix wins) - we keep them here

for the good of the game (what rocks more kiwi's wakas = olympics) - we let them go

glad i don't have to make the call

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ok. Doomsday scenario....we're forced to send our weakest team to Beijing. In front of the nation, they get hammered (x3). Mid-August. The NZ anti-football machine cranks up. (If you don't know who they are, here are just a select few)...

They spread their lies, prejudices, and hate. The Olywhites have zero credibility. 2012 comes round. We qualify again for the Olympics. This time with several extremely talented - yet unkown to the general public - youngsters...

What will the NZOC determine regarding selection?

Reflect on your selfish thoughts...

PS: FFS. The Olywhites last 1st round game finishes on the 13th!!! I think.

Stevo2008-05-22 00:25:50

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I think nation comes first, even if it is the Olympics. Also, to the people saying we have no covering left back, what about Daniel? He can supposedly play there.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bad move. If the players want to go and the coach selects them, let them go.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Stevo, you've terrified me into getting off the fence, with the pictures of those 3 smarm-weasels

(reluctantly - "Let the lads go")

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If we go ahead with keeping them out then we can never have a blast at Rovers etc for not letting our guys out, they play more games than we do, we'll have lost any feel-good moral feeling that we had. And we all know how much the aussies go on about releasing players even when they do it anyway, the last thing we want to do is be like them.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Stevo! Stevo! Stevo!

I also find myself in the odd position of agreeing almost entirely with Danny Hay this morning:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4555980a18075.html

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Stevo wrote:

And you think that Smeltz and Lochhead will make the team advance? Ridiculous.

a.haak

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Probably not, but if they turn a 5-0 in to a 2-1 loss that is huge for the game here.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

We'll get hammered anyway because we'll just end up defending on the edge of our box all game and hoofing it forward to one man up front.

Three for me, and two for them.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Unfortunately we have to face that we don't have the best team there. We probably have one of, if not the, worst. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be supported. But it does mean that 2 A-League players are probably not going to have any real effect on results. Nelsen, Killen and Elliot may be able to do something and will also bring attention to the team simply for the fact that they play overseas and are well known (in the case of Nelsen).
valeo2008-05-22 10:59:43

a.haak

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

valeo wrote:

Every Olymipcs needs an Eddie the Eagle. And while the rest of the sporting world is saying "awww, aren't they trying hard, and they're really a rugby country" the Phoenix will struggle with an understrength side.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Probably not, but if they turn a 5-0 in to a 2-1 loss that is huge for the game here.

I don't think that Smeltz and Lochead would make that kind of difference...

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

danielsleftball wrote:

valeo wrote:

ï¿½

Every Olymipcs needs an Eddie the Eagle.ï¿½ And while the rest of the sporting world is saying "awww, aren't they trying hard, and they're really a rugby country" the Phoenix will struggle with an understrength side.ï¿½

I can just see the commentators going "You know, this is the first time that these NZ players have stepped out on a full-size football pitch...in their preparation for the tournament back home, they had to practice with oval rugby balls because there are no footballs in NZ. A modern life David vs. Goliath story..."el grapadura2008-05-22 11:23:21

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If I was Smeltz or Lochhead I would absolutely want to go to the Olympics so, if it works out they aren't chosen or released, I would have every sympathy for them.

That sympathy doesn't however translate into a willingness to risk a single A-league point by supporting the loss of 2 of our key players to the Olympic team. Imagine if we missed the playoffs by a single point lost while we were playing understrength - think of the cost to the club and the disappoinment of the fans. Who would then find any consolation in the fact we did ourselves proud at the Olympics ?

Tough call for Tony but, for me, club comes first in professional sport. Support for international football is provided for through FIFA windows. Where there are no FIFA windows the call is the clubs to make.

He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

my view on the matter is that the Nix are already contribuing to the Oly-whites cause by sending Costa and Draper! So it's not like they're absolutely sabotating the Olympics by not sending their 2 senior players.

Besides, the Olympic games are for U-23, and I've never been a great fan of the rules which allows teams to bring 3 over-23 players. Especially when teams like Brazil bring Ronaldo etc..it's just unfair.

And last but not least, I thought Stu had offered the position to Elliot, Nelsen and Killen...who to be honest are some of the best NZ players around..so why bother Smeltzy and Locky?!

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

So we send an understrength team without over-23 players if one of the top 3 has to pull out ?

He's named five because Killen and Elliot are notoriously injury prone and Ryan nelsen could easily have club problems.

Olympic first, for the good of the game.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Olympic first, for the good of the game.

Ok, so if Smeltz and Lochead do go and play, and get injured and are unable to play for the Nix, doesn't that hurt our chances pretty heavily. Scenario I'm thinking of is that the All whites aren't likely to get into the second round and if Smeltz or Locky get hurt then the Nix second season coudl be seriously hurt which hurts football in Wellington and NZ.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Probably not, but if they turn a 5-0 in to a 2-1 loss that is huge for the game here.

or produce a few moments of genuine class on the international stage...I remember watching game of two halves and both Ridge and Ellis could clearly remember Bertos skinning Cafu

Then there is the header that Killen got up for at the end of the game...

Smeltz did that for us against Wales- twice actually. He is a heart on his sleeve never say die and not be overawed footballer...

It's about creating heroes, and the olympics is the place where the rest of New Zealand channels into these things...

Could be wishful thinking...and making the sacrifice of 5 quality players is certainly tough on a club...but it is a chance for these players to relfect the glory back on the Phoenix too...

imagine if Smeltz outscored Ronalldhino? Or if Costa did!

that would be the kind of thing that would make the sky sport couch potatoes sit up and notice.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

So Ryan can be excused because of club problems but others can't?

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

No, I'm just saying you need to be prepared in case it comes up.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

theprof wrote:

But they could just as easily get hurt in the opening round of the A-League. In fact against McKay, Tiatto and Moore I would suggest Smeltz is significantly more likely to get crocked in the A-league opener than he would at the Olympics.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Whitby boy wrote:

If I was Smeltz or Lochhead I would absolutely want to go to the Olympics so, if it works out they aren't chosen or released, I would have every sympathy for them.

Sorry, there are so many other factors that will affect the outcome at the end of the season that I think that argument is a bit lame.

For instance, do all those arguing for "club before country" also think Ricki Herbert should give up the All Whites coaching job so he can focus 100% on the Phoenix? I'll bet that's what the Phoenix want.

Personally, I don't want to see that happen because I'm sure the arrangement has benefits for both parties in the long run and he seems to be doing a good job.

The Phoenix should be looking at the big picture and supporting NZF, without whom they would not even exist and this whole argument would be academic.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Olympic first, for the good of the game.

The good of the game in NZ, imho, is best served by the Phoenix being competitive for a top 4 spot in the A-league and, ultimately, title contenders - these achievements, if sustained over a few years, will provide far more momentum for soccer in NZ than a credible performance at the Olympics that all but die hard football supporters will have forgotten the day after the last game.

If the Phoenix are to be financially viable they will also need to start to deliver on the park. Terry has deep, generous but not bottomless pockets. The risk of loosing points and therefore playoff chances and therefore crowd support and therefore revenue through playing with a weakened team is too great.

He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Don't agree.

Idealy both is the answer but the media and the people of this country worship the Olympic rings, any success there will be shouted from the rooftops. SOme weeks the Phoenix barely make national news.

We worked our arses off campaigning to get the football sides sent to the Olympics, the least we can do is supporters is give them every chance to prove the NZOC made the right decision, there is a VERY slight chance that may impact the Phoenix, but so be it.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

Sorry, there are so many other factors that will affect the outcome at the end of the season [/QUOTE]

Yes there are but this is one factor we can control

[QUOTE=terminator_x] For instance, do all those arguing for "club before country" also think Ricki Herbert should give up the All Whites coaching job so he can focus 100% on the Phoenix?

Yes I do but that's a subject for a different thread

He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Without casting aspersions.

How many of those calling club before country consider themselves supporters of the All Whites ahead of say England or another international team ?

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Lonegunmen wrote:

The price of being a professional player. Still if our lads made it to the World Cup finals, I doubt if the Nix would not allow them to go.

They wouldn't be able to stop them. The club only have a say with the players not normally eligible for the Olympics i.e. the over age players. That's why we're already losing three players. If we release the over age players too, we'll be missing five players.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Except we're unlikely to lose five. The NZ side has quite a bit of culling to do and if Killen and Smeltz make it I think it is unlikely Costa and Draper will, likewise Hearfield is with an Aus side currently missing injured players, three or four Melbourne players, plus overseas players not to mention the three overage players.

Every chance that Smeltz and Lochhead might be the only ones we lose and even then Elliott, Smeltz or Killen would have to decline first.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I wouldn't mind Smeltz leaving so much if Costa stayed

a.haak

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