The Great 2016/17 Coaching Saga

I want some unknown genius young coach. Welnix may have not the experience to find him. Here some scientist quote:

"Our own recent work shows that, yes, you need experts to spot experts," he said. "Everyone can spot the poor performer, but often spotting the best performers is beyond the competence of the group. That said, spotting an expert outside of one’s field is a task one can become better at.

--David Dunning

I would be disappointed if we don't get anything better than Greeny and Des, but would be happy do be wrong because I'm no expert.

"Here, here" - says mr hudson

Actually post Ange, Muscat took a bit of time to make the team his own. Eventually moved away from Ange's 4222 to a 4231 with Berisha coming in. We did dick them 5-0 after Ange left with Muscat in charge. Wouldn't it be nice if we could throw money at a problem like MV can, "hey the system our squad has been setup to play is not what I'm comfortable with, how about we bring in a Berisha."

Welnix can say that, these two have long term support, but that doesn't mean anything in football. If the team performs poorly, they have no discernible positive impact or no indication of progression to a style of play or system that could bring us better results then they would have to be on shaky ground. 

Our performances over the past 3 games have, IMHO, been a slight regression over most of the games this season under Ernie.

I know that.

The thrust of my argument was that it wasn't a real gamble to promote him because of the strength of squad, their table position, as well as those other credentials gained from his time as a player.

So basically the only major difference is the strength of squad? Des and Greenie have had a better start than Muscat did at MV, not saying they are the right choice (I think we are much looser under them in the past 3 games) but you need a better argument than it was not as much a risk because MV have such a good squad.

It is instructive to how Welnix go about things.

Do they know what a good coach looks like?

And are they prepared to back their judgement, externally show some belief in the new coach with signing them to a long term deal.

I can't remember what they call it but they have a part of the board focused on the football side of things with input from guys like Noah Hickey.

The difference between us and the victory is we have to perform or else, we have no room to bed in a coach or have a transition year, we have to perform.

When's this plane landing?

From Sydney? One landed 14:57, two more coming 23:40 and 23:50 tonight. If those two get the job I expect a proper plan from them, a bit more like tweaking and shakjng up the team. Otherwise I'm not buying it. A presser tomorrow?

I'm guessing that it's already landed, piney said that it was in the air and that there would be interviews when it arrived. That was a few hours ago now, I guess plans changed

Nope, they did media after landing this afternoon. No news.

Would even take  Hudsons bullshark then Greenacres mediocrity and lack of confidence.

If Greenacre is appointed, then I would give the Nix 12 months minimum

Vital that the owners don't accept mediocrity at this time 

I don't think Hudsons a good candidate, and he's said he isn't applying as he's too busy with the national team...

I don't think he is good either, far, far from it, but that doesn't mean he isn't better then then Mr mediocrity 

The problem with hiring these two til the end of the year as speculated is available coaches who are keen on the job may look elsewhere and not want to hang around.

With a transfer window available the NIX need to sign a new coach and say, we will back you and bring in that one player you think we absolutely need... even if it means an early release for a player. 

I'd be surprised if the owners don't look at the forum... lets hope they hear the majority of voices.

I'd be surprised if they don't too... though nowhere near as surprised as I would be if they did!

I am happy to trust the Welnix judgement on this. They did a great job hiring Ernie. I think they are astute with their own money and will want the best return for it.

I also don't like the talk about Greenie and Des being mediocre. They have done well I reckon. Lets back them not damn them.

Regardless of whether they have done well or not, do you realistically think they are they best applicant.

Neither have managed a team before, neither have a proven track record as a manager... what do they offer over Ramon for example other than knowing the system, which is half the problem potentially.

Comparing Muscat and Greenie/Des is quite frankly a bit ridiculous. Despite what you may think of the bloke, Muscat was the clear leader at every club he was at and basically co-coached with Ernie during his time there. He also learned a bit under Ange, arguably the best Australian coach.

A key point being that he is also at Melbourne Victory; a club with far better resources than us.

At the Phoenix, we need to do far more with far less - that requires a coach with experience and a coach with new ideas that will breathe new life into the club.

This is what we should be aiming for. Not more of the same.

You know what more of he same will get us? A non-existent club. 

I also think that it's absolutely batshark crazy that people are saying we're playing better since Merrick left. Yes, 2 draws and a win, but these results were against clubs we had already got decent results against previously. We haven't played better.

You're trying to tell me that Muscat was co-coaching Victory? Wowsers.

He must have also been co-coaching them in the Durakovic/Magilton year then, which was horrid in every single way.

I think comparing Greenie to Muscat is exactly the comparison that should be made. Played for the club - moved on to be assistant coach and now potentially the head coach. How is that comparison ridiculous?

I actually agree with Patrick on this bit - yes we can make that comparison; and Muscat wins. Yes he was the most hated player in English football, yes he inflicted some horrific injuries on opposition players, and he was famously named a "national disgrace" as a player. But he performed all of these 'acts' in competition at a high level (Crystal Palace, the Wolves, Milwall) and was never sacked even if he was sued. I do not like Muscat very much but apart from a lousy temper he seems to be doing OK as a coach. In contrast Greenacre, a nice bloke and all, has only really performed well as a player at Stoke City (Third Div) and Tranmere Rovers (League One) before moving to the Nix.   I see his limited playing experience as a handicap - A-League today is probably better than League One was then.  The fact that some of the Nix players from his on-field days (notably Dura) are still on the park today may be another handicap to him being a good coach of the Nix.

With the A-League being salary capped, a coach is the one thing you can spend money on.

Having a bit of ambition here would certainly help ...

I'm not sure about DB but CG doesn't come across as a particularly inspiring guy. I feel like this group of players need an inspiring leader above almost anything else right now. CG pretty much always starts sentences with "I think" and "probably" which seems like he's reluctant to own his stance and leave open the chance of being wrong or slightly off. I like CG but I think he fits the assistant mould (like Luc Trani), at this point in time at least. I also agree with the point that while some of his ex playing peers are still playing, it's not the right timing. DB's coaching CV doesn't exactly inspire either. While it's all well and good for Paul Ifill to support his good mate for the job, I don't have that bias and for me if the Nix appoint these two it's a step backwards (or at least sideways) when this club needs to go forward with the watchful eye of the FFA over us. Time isn't on our side and I think the two assistants will need plenty of it. If there's no one suitable currently available then I'm all for CG and DB to take the reigns until there is.

Does YF still do polls? For this debate I'd be interested to see where the majority sits. Maybe hard not know the alternatives might be I guess.

The thing with Muscat is that he wants to be number 1 and stay number 1. He would never dream of having an ambition to make it to number 6. The guy is a prick but his focus and determination cannot be ignored. 2-10 is for losers.

surely the fact that greenie and des haven't yet been confirmed points to the fact that welnix are in talks with a third party? If them getting the job was dependent on the jets game then this should've been done by now.

Could be trying to get an exception for Greenacre from the FFA.

I wish this process was being managed in a more transparent way by the club. It would be nice to know the names of some the applicants 

It smacks of an inside job

Oh I see. So if that's true, we've had to go begging to the FFA again. That's a good look!

Poll here:

https://goo.gl/K8yx7e

Starts 13:00. Ends 22:00.

Erm ... but it is an inside job. When do you ever see a football club publicise its applicants for a manager position?

The reality is that this is a hard process to be overly transparent about - one needs to keep options open (publicly) or negotiating position is compromised.

I'm afraid I don't agree.  We aren't privy to details of applicants names in other jobs with other organisations so why should this one be any different?  If I'd applied, I wouldn't want my information out there for all to see, I would want it to remain confidential.

If we were shareholders I might take a different view.

Some coaches that will go unnamed seem to like the publicity of leaked lists.

Wait...  what? You want the club to mention applicants name in the media?

Name me one football club in the world that does that. Actually, name me one employer in the world that does that, doesn't even have to be within football.

It would be great for the club to break confidentiality and potentially jeopardise the current jobs of the applicants.

Needs "none of the above" option. 

I'd prefer Ramon from A.C. to get a chance but if he was unavailable I'd like the Phoenix to continue with their backs against the wall mentality knowing full well their poor form got Ernie to resign out of pride. They should go thru the whole season with this attitude that they need to give more each game. Greenacre and Cunningham who know the team would remind them of that. New season would be the best time for a new coach to build his/her own team.

Potentially breaks the Privacy Act too.

I don't agree.  I have not seen enough of the "do or die" mentality yet. If a respected coach like Ernie Merrick was unable to motivate the team do you genuinely expect the current back-up / assistant / staff to motivate them past a first couple of games? Once Ernie is a memory we will simply be stuck with what Des and Chris can offer. Our discussion here is chiefly on whether that is enough (good enough).