Wellington Phoenix Men

v Cold Ghost, Fri 11pm SS3

725 replies · 4,797 views
over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
plus GCU are one of the better defensive sides in the league 
 
so an out of sorts, struggling to find itself phoenix not unlocking them is maybe not the end of the world, so long as we sort ourselves out sooner rather than later
 
we didn't look too bad through the park, it was just in the front third we lacked ideas
and at least two of the goals against were schoolboy stuff, which you'd hope they can fix
 
touch wood
 
ah well, just some thoughts
 
Go the Nix!
mjp22010-10-02 11:54:58
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
martinb wrote:

Bring back Lochhead!Didn't think we were that bad. Until the 2nd and 3rd goals...


We were good in the first half and woeful in the second.


This is basically the story of our season. Away from home anyway.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Perspective from a travelling supporter;
 
Great stadium; Rectangular stadiums make a huge difference to the atmosphere and enjoyment of the game.
 
Away support; 200 - 300 Nix supporters there - big numbers of families on holiday, "local" Kiwis and travelling school and sports teams.
 
The Beach; Small but very passionate group.
 
Culina; In a different league to anyone else on the pitch.
 
GCU >>>>>>>>>>>> Nix (last night).
 
Our mob;
We looked totally disorganised for all but the entire game - absolutely no pattern.
 
We were soft on the ball - same problem as a couple of other games this season - pushed off the ball repeatedly - often by smaller players - the 5ft nothing, 60kg African player (can't recall name) repeatedly physically embarrassed us.
 
We lack pace almost across right the pitch.
 
Ifill and Bertos - lost their mojo.
 
Discipline - poor again - this really worries me as it reflects a lack of leadership in the team.
 
4-3-3; As long as Ifill and Bertos are going to sleep walk through games 4-3-3 will be a failure.
 
Toto; Swimming against the tide I know but for the second time he has come on he looked OK to me - I'd rather have him than Ward start and give him a chance to see what he can do.
 
Pav;  Rough and raw as but he is the most direct player we have and he has some pace and real physical presence - would like to see him play alongside Greenie and see what he could do with a bit more time.
 
I think Herbert, Dura and whoever (other senior players) need to sort some sh*t out - formation, discipline, attitude etc.
 
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
we are the ugliest footballing side in the league. i went to bed at half time frustrated that we couldnt string two passes together, watched the second half now - and that was even worse.


Agreed.

It's all long balls over the top or else midfielders holding on for too long and losing the ball. If I was a neutral I'd hate to watch this Nix. How many clearcut chances have we had this season? Apart from the odd goal do we ever really test the opposition keeper?

Right, well, here is some stats:

So far this season we have made 100 shots, 42 of those on target, 3 have hit the woodwork and 24 have forced keeper saves.

So we hit 11.11 shots per game, 4.67 (or 42%) of which are on target. We hit the woodwork once every three games. And finally force a keeper save in about one in four of our shots, or, 2.67 times a game.

Read what you will from that.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
... we hit 11.11 shots per game...
Seems a little on the high side. According to the stats here:

http://livescores.theage.com.au/matches/football/match3954.html?page=team-stats&refresh=1285976288155

the Phoenix were good for 3 shots on goal last night, which sounds a bit more realistic.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
My apologies, those 3 shots were 'shots on target', so more accurate to compare with the "4.67" that was quoted.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
AngusBeef wrote:
Ease up on Ricki and WP heros. Surely one loss to GCU couldn't get you guys that emotionally maligned with our only pro football team. Still time to make up. Same tactics as the mighty draws from South Africa campaign?
 
I feel like I am feeding the troll replying to this...but...
 
...its not simply a defeat to GCU that has got everyone up in arms. For one, it was the manner of the defeat. Absolutely woeful and inept performance. That game could've gone another 90 minutes and I doubt we'd have scored.
 
Add that to the defeats in Melbourne, Perth, and Brisbane, and you can see where people are coming from.
 
All Whites are NOT the Phoenix and Phoenix should not be playing for draws or employing the same tactics as the circumstances are entirely different, not to mention most of the personnel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
we are the ugliest footballing side in the league. i went to bed at half time frustrated that we couldnt string two passes together, watched the second half now - and that was even worse.


Agreed.

It's all long balls over the top or else midfielders holding on for too long and losing the ball. If I was a neutral I'd hate to watch this Nix. How many clearcut chances have we had this season? Apart from the odd goal do we ever really test the opposition keeper?

Right, well, here is some stats:

So far this season we have made 100 shots, 42 of those on target, 3 have hit the woodwork and 24 have forced keeper saves.

So we hit 11.11 shots per game, 4.67 (or 42%) of which are on target. We hit the woodwork once every three games. And finally force a keeper save in about one in four of our shots, or, 2.67 times a game.

Read what you will from that.
 
Be interesting to know how many of these shots on target have been tame efforts that the keeper has lapped up without any problem. Probably most of them. The shooting, particularly from outside the box has been really bad. I really wonder what they do at training - perhaps those who go and watch can tell us? Do they practice shooting, and do they practice free kicks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If anybody describes Pav as being raw again I will break something.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I want to see Pav and Greenacre up front together in the next game.
 
Not Greenacre in behind or any other bullsh*t, the 2 of them up front.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think the reason I'm so disappointed about last nights result is the fact I know we have the quality players to win against most teams in this league but we don't seem to step up, even at home we don't look unbeatable imo.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
loyalgunner wrote:
If anybody describes Pav as being raw again I will break something.


How aboout Roar?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A performance for which the word 'abject' was invented.

Can someone point Ricki in the direction of his drawing board?

That's me done.

I know, I know, its serious!

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

ANGST. Agony. Angst. Frustration. Despair. Sad. Annoyed. Upset.

WHY, why why????
 
 
I HATE away games!!!
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
CboZ wrote:
I think the reason I'm so disappointed about last nights result is the fact I know we have the quality players to win against most teams in this league but we don't seem to step up, even at home we don't look unbeatable imo.


We have looked very shakey at home,  lucky to win again both Sydney and NQ,  if the team doesnt improve soon the home record will be gone also
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Turfmoore wrote:
A performance for which the word 'abject' was invented.

Can someone point Ricki in the direction of his drawing board?

That's me done.

Point him in the direction of this forum,  perhaps if he sees our passion it may rub off onto some of the players
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
charliec wrote:

CboZ wrote:
I think the reason I'm so disappointed about last nights result is the fact I know we have the quality players to win against most teams in this league but we don't seem to step up, even at home we don't look unbeatable imo.
We have looked very shakey at home,� lucky to win again both Sydney and NQ,� if the team doesnt improve soon the home record will be gone also


The home record will go regardless. Like Ifill said last night all good things come to an end and one day we will be beat at home again.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Tells the story.

Fuck this stupid game

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
charliec wrote:

CboZ wrote:
I think the reason I'm so disappointed about last nights result is the fact I know we have the quality players to win against most teams in this league but we don't seem to step up, even at home we don't look unbeatable imo.
We have looked very shakey at home,  lucky to win again both Sydney and NQ,  if the team doesnt improve soon the home record will be gone also


The home record will go regardless. Like Ifill said last night all good things come to an end and one day we will be beat at home again.

Yes it sounded like the players are now expecting to lose at home as well as away - nightmare!
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
Scottishbhoy wrote:
how did toto play>


Rubbish.
Seems to me Toto is a pretty polarising figure, I didn't think he was woeful last night. He wasn't any worse than anyone else we had on the park anyway. By the stage he came on Gold Coast had such utter control in the midfield that I am not sure what could have been expected of him.

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Scottishbhoy wrote:
how did toto play>
Rubbish.


Seems to me Toto is a pretty polarising figure, I didn't think he was woeful last night. He wasn't any worse than anyone else we had on the park anyway. By the stage he came on Gold Coast had such utter control in the midfield that I am not sure what could have been expected of him.
I'd go along with this. He put a few poor balls in, but on the upside, he went searching for the ball and making himself available for it, which is more than can be said for most of his team mates to that point.

It may be urgency, but he does at times seem hurried, and not sure if he comfortable holding the ball and assessing options (this was my opinion of him at training as well).

We could certainly do with such a player - someone who can stand on the ball, reassess options and direct traffic. Oh hang on, they all play in Europe.

I know, I know, its serious!

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I gotta get all this out at once before I explode:

1. Riki makes substitutions to late, waiting either for the other manager to act first or a decline in perfromance. Riki needs to be pro-active in his subsitutions, He knows what needs to be done he just does it 10 minutes too late and we lose control of the midfield and our subsitutions don't have time to get it back and simply don't have the time to impact the game.

2. Our stregnth going foward is entirely dependent on Ifil having a good game. He vanished in the second half and so did our attack and foward drive. Bertos needs to step up and use his pace and get more balls across and we desperatly need a central attacking mid-fielder with real class and good ball distribution and we have no-one close to matching that discription.

3. Next game I want to see a line up of attacking intent. Pav should start with Greenie, more attacking presence in the box, we need more players there to smash away our crosses and pressure opposition defence. And I want Paston back. He's just better.

on the positive despite the general resenment I thought Hearfield had a pretty good game in defence (I had low expectations).

Ultimaly we need to play the game we're good at: Strong defensive base, feed mid-field, up wing, cross. Little triangles in the box have done us wonders before, that part of our game vanishes away from home.
We have a pretty decent side and we can contend the title but it will take some serious work, Ifil cannot be the only source of decent ball.

Well that was all over the place but its not inside me anymore!

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ballane wrote:

U037 wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Maybe Ricki doesn't have a clue?
I used to work with a bloke who was on the coaching staff of one of NZ's age-group teams. He didn't bag Ricki but said there were concerns among other coaches that Ricki didn't like to ask for advice. However, Ricki did employ that Aussie guy (can't remember his name) as a technical adviser for the WC didn't he? Perhaps he needs to give him a call again?
More to this than many would be prepared to admit. Spoke to someone at last weeks game who has been around NZ football who said much the same thing.


I've heard (second hand admittedly) that this was the case at the World Cup too, Nelsen and the senior players were running the team and Ricki was doing very little. This was from one of the players.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm sick of hearing this 'Ricki makes subs to late' nonsense. So far this season he's pulled players at half time, pretty sure i've seen subs around the 55 minute mark, obviously the 60-70 minute mark is when he (and most managers) make the majority of his changes, not many in the 70-80 minute period, and a few more in the last 10.

The reason most of the subs begin to be made around the 60 minute mark in all teams is that is the logical time to make them - players are starting to tire after getting a break at half time, and leaves enough time for the subs to get into the game and make a difference.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I personally think that its time to get rid of the dead weight in the squad...Tim brown has contributed little or nothing forsome weeks now...Leo Bertos  gives us about 5 minutes a game...Troy Hearfield....is he ever going to get any better?  our current away form makes some of these players a luxury that we cant afford and sentiment and to a certain extent loyalty may need to go out the window and say well thanks and goodbye...alternatively Rikki may have to take a crash course in TACTICS    and not just play at managing!.....rant over
 
ps rant not over.....Toto...doesnt appear very good......Diego..f**k!

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Last games - V GCU, Heart, Victory, NQF,  - our attack has been nowhere near good enough, trying to penetrate with long crosses from mid-field, lacking any imagination. Must be a real worry our inability to create chances & force saves.

Bertos & Brown in mid-field are doing nothing, Ifill has been worked out, Greenacre - yes he does a lot of work off the ball & can finish but only gets half chances.
 
Needs a big change around in form , tactics & personal and quickly.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
By the end of the game, it was pretty demoralisin last night.
 
The number of aimless balls above head height fired straight at the GC defence was embarrassing.
 
Feel sorry for Greenacre, he is totally isolated and spends all night chasing lost causes.
 
It would be hard to pick a man of the match from that for the Phoenix, Brown, Ward, Bertos and Vukovic were simply not good enough. I know Hearfield was beaten for the second goal, but I thought he was one of our better players overall. Thats says a lot. The subs barely made any impact whatsoever.
 
GC were very physical and the ref was far to lenient on them. And we had  a goal disallowed that looked okay. But most frustrating is the way we play, we seem to have no idea how to pass the ball to towards the box and hold it up.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feel sorry for Greeny. Bagged him a bit for not finishing last year. He's in some real form I reckon this season- a couple of great finishes ruled out and he always gets clattered and not properly protected by the refs. We've had a lot of players who've started with a bang and then dropped off (Elrich, G**, Dadi, Ward, etc etc...) but he might be a player who gets better and better for us...


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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ShowUsYaNix wrote:
ballane wrote:

U037 wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Maybe Ricki doesn't have a clue?
I used to work with a bloke who was on the coaching staff of one of NZ's age-group teams. He didn't bag Ricki but said there were concerns among other coaches that Ricki didn't like to ask for advice. However, Ricki did employ that Aussie guy (can't remember his name) as a technical adviser for the WC didn't he? Perhaps he needs to give him a call again?
More to this than many would be prepared to admit. Spoke to someone at last weeks game who has been around NZ football who said much the same thing.


I've heard (second hand admittedly) that this was the case at the World Cup too, Nelsen and the senior players were running the team and Ricki was doing very little. This was from one of the players.


seems unlikely to me
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That was that BS from some guy at the sunday news or something wasn't it? Ricki came out and gave him a real serve...

dirty offensive rumour made bigger than it is. if you use the search you can track down Ricki's response to it in the archives...


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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Turfmoore wrote:
bopman wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Scottishbhoy wrote:
how did toto play>
Rubbish.


Seems to me Toto is a pretty polarising figure, I didn't think he was woeful last night. He wasn't any worse than anyone else we had on the park anyway. By the stage he came on Gold Coast had such utter control in the midfield that I am not sure what could have been expected of him.
I'd go along with this. He put a few poor balls in, but on the upside, he went searching for the ball and making himself available for it, which is more than can be said for most of his team mates to that point.

It may be urgency, but he does at times seem hurried, and not sure if he comfortable holding the ball and assessing options (this was my opinion of him at training as well).

We could certainly do with such a player - someone who can stand on the ball, reassess options and direct traffic. Oh hang on, they all play in Europe.








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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
chchnix wrote:

Last games - V GCU, Heart, Victory, NQF,  - our attack has been nowhere near good enough, trying to penetrate with long crosses from mid-field, lacking any imagination. Must be a real worry our inability to create chances & force saves.

Bertos & Brown in mid-field are doing nothing, Ifill has been worked out, Greenacre - yes he does a lot of work off the ball & can finish but only gets half chances.
 
Needs a big change around in form , tactics & personal and quickly.
Apart from a couple of brief spells I can think of - when Ward got on the ball and sprayed it around a bit against Sydney and when Daniel had a good 25 minutes against Perth - for me its been that way all year. We rely on stifling the opposition and then hoping when the balls falls for us from a turnover, mistake or a long ball hurled in the mix, that the ball falls for kindly for somebone - or Ifill does something clever.
At least at home we seem to have more intensity and win games by suffocating sides, away that doesnt happen and the rest of our game gets exposed.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:
Teza wrote:
We lose it again in the midfield, there is nothing there, no running off the ball, no supporting players, always long hopeful balls. This is basic school boy stuff. Some players need to wake up and put the effort in.
 
I think more than  a few players need to be dropped to give them a wake up.

And be replaced by who... Musa? Rojas? Diego? Toto? McAllister? Please

There are no replacements sans Lia who will be back from suspension, Paston (where keeping is not our issue) and Lochhead who is basically done for 4 months (lets call it the season)

There seems to an outpouring of stupidity after this match.
I would be prepared play some of the reserves and take a loss to drive it home to certain players that they have to put in an effort or they don't play
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yeh wouldn't mind seeing some or all of Musa, Rojas and Diego involved at some point...especially as if they might have to be...guna be funny- we aren't going to have any reserves team!

mcCallister ahead of Pav if we are going to keep playing hit and hope, but Pav if we want to attack on the deck...Kosta> Pav IMO...


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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tigers wrote:
ShowUsYaNix wrote:
ballane wrote:

U037 wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Maybe Ricki doesn't have a clue?
I used to work with a bloke who was on the coaching staff of one of NZ's age-group teams. He didn't bag Ricki but said there were concerns among other coaches that Ricki didn't like to ask for advice. However, Ricki did employ that Aussie guy (can't remember his name) as a technical adviser for the WC didn't he? Perhaps he needs to give him a call again?
More to this than many would be prepared to admit. Spoke to someone at last weeks game who has been around NZ football who said much the same thing.


I've heard (second hand admittedly) that this was the case at the World Cup too, Nelsen and the senior players were running the team and Ricki was doing very little. This was from one of the players.


seems unlikely to me


Like I said, it was secondhand, and I'm a big fan of Ricki's so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. And for fear that the dom post might approach me with a job offer, I will stop the muck-raking, I just thought it was an interesting perspective is all
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Just watched the game again and I have some observations (gotta do something until the next game on the 15th):

Goal 1 - 3 players at fault, Siggie for diving in and missing the initial tackle, durante for not showing the player the line and letting him cut inside and make the pass to Djite then North for not knowing where Djite was and letting him have two touches and you could argue that Vukovic could have done a little more with the save. So 4 errors leading to a goal, if any one of those players did the job properly like they do 99% of the time it wouldn't have led to a goal.

Goal 2: I don't blame Hearfield, the guy in the corner got a lucky pass out, but it was baffling to see Ward standing in such a nothing position, the other player definitely at fault was Vukovic who somehow let the ball go between him and the near post. Also partially North who let Djite get ballside of him.

Goal 3 - Ifill let his man go and gave him the simplest of headers, pretty easy really. Hearfield also let his go and could easily have caused a goal too, so it was surprising to see him with hands on head complaining at Ifill. Again Vukovic could also have done more to save it, it wasn't going quickly and he seemed to let it go.

So to sum it up, Vukovic had a shocker, so bring Pasty back in for the game against the Heart. We need consistency in the back 4 as that is what got us on the playoff run last year, so keep the same, Siggy Dura North and Hearfield and give them time to gel. North had a bad game, i'm sure this is an exception to the rule based on his pedigree. And on freekicks, why is Ifill defending the backpost? That is all.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
why do people immediately blame the goalie when it goes between his legs?
Seriously what can he do?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Erm...close them?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ScoobyD wrote:
Erm...close them?


New goalkeeping coach?

a.haak

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ScoobyD wrote:
Erm...close them?
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