What's really wrong with the Wellington Phoenix?

FYI:

Received from Richard Parkin Head of Communications. 

"Thanks for taking the time to email. We understand your frustration around the decision to move the game to Auckland and can assure you this was not a decision the club took lightly.

The stark realities are unfortunately that every season remains a balancing act. We have commercial partners (including broadcasters Sky Sport) who are Auckland-based, and fans around New Zealand who are keen to watch a game in their local city.

Put simply the club cannot afford to host 13 or 14 matches every season in Wellington and sustain large financial losses – but we reason that 10 or 11 games at home, with one or two around NZ (or further abroad if the opportunity presents) is a better outcome long term than no games.

The club was upfront in announcing at the start of the campaign that season members would see 10 or 11 home games in Wellington; the timing of the confirmation of the second Auckland game however was at much shorter notice than we would have liked to have given fans, so we do apologise for that.

Thanks for your ongoing support – we are grateful for the passion of our fans and look forward to rewarding your loyalty with some better performances on the pitch in coming months!"

If they want that then they might as well relocate in Auckland and play two games down here. I am still trying figure out the decision to take one game to Canberra in the first place. Perhaps the Nix should support another bid for an Auckland team to create some rivalry and interest.

Another voice crying out for more Kiwi players. Not a total answer to what ails the club, but it would please a lot of fans. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/10...

Seems fairly obvious why from this: "Put simply the club cannot afford to host 13 or 14 matches every season in Wellington and sustain large financial losses – but we reason that 10 or 11 games at home, with one or two around NZ (or further abroad if the opportunity presents) is a better outcome long term than no games."

But, hey. let's play all our games in Wellington in front of nobody, and lose even more money, and least when we die we can say we played all our games in Wellington. Sigh.

The club made a conscious decision in the off season to move away from All Whites because they got screwed every time the AWs played.  Some people told them that was a mistake but in the circumstances of the A-League being beholden to Fox schedules it made sense to some people internally.

I would like to think they now acknowledge they might have got that wrong.

It should be balanced with the fact that just because someone has an NZ passport doesn't make them automatically A-League quality but there are certainly some squad positions currently in the Phoenix squad where you would think a local option could not be any worse.

If a professional football club can't be sustained in Wellington then we shouldn't have one. The focus needs to be on making Wellington games more profitable (I appreciate they are trying though).

Taking games to Auckland alienates the Wellington fanbase, which makes Wellington crowds lower and games here less profitable/more unprofitable. Maybe its financially the right decision short term but it ensures the club won't be successful long term because they erode the support of the core customers.

Obviously the long term answer is winning, and that Wellington will become profitable when we get bigger crowds who like to watch a successful team. I just worry that by the time that happens the fanbase will be too far gone to bring it back.

As a BOP person I disagree with that. Thank God NZ has a pro football team that we can all support. Lets just make it work.

If Wellington had a stadium that was built for the crowds it'd get there probably wouldn't be an issue. Problem is Westpac is just too expensive, and for the Nix to survive the low gate revenue they need to do something about it - which means finding a cheaper stadium.

How can the Nix set long term goals when they are given short license extensions?

This is all on the FFA and Fox and their need for us to chase metrics that just aren't there for other clubs (for the most part).

Give us a 20 year license and we can start investigating a 6,000-10,000 seat stadium, then there shouldn't be a need to take games away from Wellington.

Until we get some long term certainty, we're just going to have to deal with the travelling circus.

The Welnix fund this. Again I'm lead to believe a third party underwrites the away games so staging costs are much less.

Add extra exposure for the other funders the sponsors, 2 away games is not many to help maintain football in Wgtn.

The town away games that have fallen by the way side have not seen the benefit so don't reapply - IMHO 

Since we all know the only really good stadium in NZ is Forsyth-Barr, the only solution is the Dunedin Phoenix.

Why not?

I cannot let this statement go unchallenged.....  I watched Brockie score against WSW here (ChCh "temporary" stadium):

http://www.vbase.co.nz/venues/ami-stadium

Actually fudge it. Forget everything I've said. I'm on board with this. Dunedin Phoenix Til I Die.

Don't ask an Aucklander permission. No you can't have it! It's ours!

IBTL!

I'm sure the locals will find something to complain about, much like they did for this proposal in Petone: http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/9732645/Phoenix-sized-proposal-for-stadium-for-Petone

It's sad the Petone Stadium didn't get off the ground. That article was published in 2014, and if it had been built I reckon the Nix would've been playing in it this season or next.

Well it is the Wellington Phoenix after all.Not fans fault that we have such a large stadium with bright yellow seats to show the emptiness. Yes fans should be showing up but they won't with the results the team are displaying.  Perhaps the Knights and Kings should have played most of their games down here instead of in front of crowds of 900 because they were so well supported up there? 

They said it would be ready for the 2016/17 season, which would have been the new start we needed after the 10 year license. We'd have no crowd issues, nor renewal issues. It would help us on the pitch too. I do n't know what Westpac Stadium's atmosphere is like on one wing, but it has to sound pretty empty, surely.

Also, unrelated, but Hard News was a great addition this week, all his comments were great.

Don't Throw the BABY out yet - we only have 3/4 of spoon this season.

Thanks Ultimate A-League

No, it's not the fans' fault, I'd suggest it isn't the Club's fault either. Where else in Wellington were they expected to play? What relevance do the Kingz or the Knight s have to this, other than showing if you're a badly run Club who consistently don't perform on the pitch and that nobody watches, then one day the financial losses will get a bit too much and you won't stay in existence? Any of that sound familiar? Club says it's take 2 or 3 games out of Wellington or eventually face having no games at all, but people still shouting about not taking any games out of Wellington. Interesting.

Oh, and for the record, I have publicly been a staunch advocate of the Phoenix playing all their games in Wellington, but am able to understand that, at this moment in time, Wellington is not capable of supporting the Phoenix by itself (in all senses of the word) and, until that changes, the Club has to find some compromise between having the Club go tits up or finding some way of keep it alive, and if that includes playing a couple of games out of Wellington and/or keeping sponsors (who are putting money into the Club) happy, then that's just fine with me.

Yeah, unfortunately there is what the fans want and there's also reality.

Of course the fans want the team to build a stadium, play all their games in Wellington, and hire genuine marquee players, but the club also has commercial realities that they have to live with and unfortunately unless the fan base wants to get together and buy the team we have to deal with those realities.

I'm glad we have a football club to be honest, I wish things were better but if we didn't have these owners, or these sponsors, then I'm fairly certain we wouldn't have a football team at all.

Devil's advocate here: If Wellington can't support a professional football club, if the owners are losing money? if we keep propping up the bottom of the league table - in reality - should there be a club at all? What are we doiong? keeping the club alive for 5000 people?

Are there many football clubs that make a profit? I don’t think that’s the point of owning a club.

I'd say most probably don't. It's just up to the owners to decide how much of a financial black hole they're willing to put up with, I suppose

I think a lot of people here don't accept that. There seems to be an attitude that as a football club owner you should be prepared to spend you own money / run at a loss for "the good of the club".

Yep, I also don't buy that Wellington can't sustain the team. In the past there has been good enough crowds. WelNix don't own it to make a profit, they have a goal of it breaking even but the members of WelNix I've talked to in the past view it as something vaguely philanthropic. They wanted to keep an asset in Wellington that Wellington was going to lose.

That's why it's a little galling that people are upset with the team going on the road. The whole point of it is for it to be a Wellington team and if it could work as it stands now all games would be in Wellington, but the team simply isn't succesful enough to be able to dictate those terms so it's a compromise.

Yep, i've accepted 1 or 2 games on the road and i think most other fans have too.  It is taking the last game of the season away, and the way it was taken away, on top of all the performance angst that has led to such a big response, and that was completely within the clubs control.

Does the Club have a Mission Statement? Is that Mission Statement public?

I think the frustration comes from the fact that the team has been crap for a sustained period, so people don't attend, and then it comes out that fans aren't supporting the team so they have to go on the road.  It's a bit circular

I also get the reason for the away games and I always liked 2nd Best's logic that because we don't go away much the "NZ away" games are good bonding for fans etc

I think they need to try and build a bit more consistency regarding venue and timing.  A bit how the Phoenix always played in Melbourne before the Melbourne Cup.  Then people know what they are going to be getting and can plan accordingly.

I am also biased but I don't know why they don't come back to Napier.  They got 10k here on Labour weekend with the U19s on

Hell of a Tua as well.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I always thought the Phoenix should be looking to take games to some of the regional cities during the traditional Christmas break when the major cities are pretty empty. Make it part of an annual festival sort of thing and play it in Nelson, or the Mount or something.