What's really wrong with the Wellington Phoenix?

Think that along with the other transfers we need to make one should also be reserved for a new captain. 

The candidates we have in our current squad are not up to the mark.

This. There are more All Whites at the Colorado Rapids than the Phoenix right now.

We need more young kiwis. Was the scholarship for Marco Rojas a one off thing? 

There are 3 kiwis at Colorado. There are 11 at the Phoenix, of which I think 8 have been in an All Whites squad.

Scholarship ran for about 5 years. But a combination of a lack of fever funds and the introduction of the phoenix academy, kinda made it redundent.  

Wow Brown Bear you really did get a moderator beat down right there didn't you

Technically you weren't far off. If we look at the most recent All Whites squad there were three players who are currently at the Phoenix and three who are currently at Colorado

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_football_team#Current_squad

Will be 4-3 today and I wouldn't call up Wynne.

Colvey injured isn't he, so more likely 4-2.

So 4-1 if they didn't call up Wynne.

If we called up everyone from the phoenix and no one from colorado it'd be 500 to zero

Why wouldn't you call up Wynne? He's the incumbent and currently a starting centre back in the MLS

Why would you not call up Wynne though? Starting for an MLS side (that has been decent so far by all accounts) and was one of our more solid players vs Peru.

Don't rate him. Hope he proves me wrong.

Hearing it's even more than 4-3.

...

And the Nix come out as 5-0 winners!

That's a first for this season!!! ;)

The only chance.

Don't rate him in the slightest either. I got drunk and posted that I thought he was poor on an All Whites FB page once.  First time I'd done that (the public smack talk - not the drunk). His mum jumped on to defend him. Had even less respect when I saw he liked her post. 

Yep. Not my finest moment I'll admit.

Expanding on this points - our only advantage over the Australian teams is that we can have Kiwis and they do not count as foreigners.  We are not going to get the best young Australians but we are able to get some of the older journeyman Aussie A-League guys to come to NZ.  A squad made up of mostly Australians and foreigners is not going to be successful.  But if we can have a squad made up of good young kiwis, good foreigners and the odd older Aussie then I think we can be better.  Yes, the academy is supposed to assist with that but I still think we are missing a trick here.

The MLS doesn't pay much better.  Yes some players might prefer to live in the US rather than in Wgtn but the A-League is actually a pretty good shop window for players.  So why aren't we picking up or showing an interest in young kiwis?

I'm also fully aware that being an All White/playing for Colorado under Anthony Hudson is not an automatic mark of quality

Testify brother Normo

Agree with you JD thing is though we really dont have a very good record with our treatment of young Kiwis over the years. Some have struggled with getting game time while others have been asked to play roles they were not familiar with. Think if you were a young Kiwi you would take a look at what has gone on in the past and i dont really think that would be an encouragement to sign with us.

You have a good point JD, the club does have an opportunity here that they need to take advantage of as much as they can. There are hundreds of reasons why young players choose other pathways than trying to crack it at the Nix via their academy system.

To many, the US College system is a great attraction, outside of footballing opportunities, its a great life experience for young people and an opportunity to get a qualification that can help them outside of football. For most, the lure is not a free education because in most cases they won't get a full scholarship and there will be a cost. 

Closer to home, the likes of Ole are direct competition to the Nix in terms of attracting kids to their own academy, but that still shouldn't inhibit them too much in that these players are remaining locally and the Nix can have a crack at them at any time if they desire. Some of the Ole players at least will be looking at other professional opportunities and follow the path of Ryan Thomas and will not be interested in any carrots offered by the Nix.

As the only professional club in NZ, the Nix should be looked upon, by young aspiring players, as being their entry point into the professional game.

I'm pretty certain that is not a widespread desire and that will be down to a number of reasons. Firstly for a young athlete to seriously consider that pathway - they need to see that the pathway actually exists and is achievable. I'm not certain there is enough evidence available for young players to get that impression. Therefore, if they are serious about going to the next level they have to look at other pathways.

If I was young again and got the impression that the Nix wasn't really an option, I'd look at the US College system, look at trying to crack into the Auckland City side and play in the World Club Cup and hope I'm noticed. Try and get selected for a NZ age group team and qualify for a World Cup and again get noticed. Bugger off to the UK and use my ancestry to qualify as a home grown footballer and try and get a pro gig somewhere. Even hooking up with Declan and exploring his overseas contacts.

There are a heap of different options available these days and while the Nix can't get all of the talent, they need to develop relationships with these players and their families and mentors to be in with a chance of signing them if they end up being half decent footballers.

100% agree.  There has to be an actual pathway to the first team and young kids have to know that they will get opportunities to play if they are good enough.  On the other hand, players shouldn't hang round blocking the next guy from coming through.  

Good to see 4 kiwis in the starting XI who have come through the NZ pathway plus Krishna.  

...combine that with the U17 win at Auckland City over the weekend and it would be hard to argue that the Phoenix aren't doing something right.  Even a well under strength side gave Auckland City some concerns at the same time. I think there are a couple of players they have missed out on or who have moved on that are a chance to be back under the Phoenix umbrella at some stage but these things will happen and happen with clubs all over the world.

As people say players have a choice, some will chose US College because they are aware chasing a professional football dream is full of risks and a backup option isn't a dumb idea. Others will chose the Ole way and while it's a shame the two organisations don't have closer ties they are at least singing from the same page on wanting what is best for NZ Football and often play vs each other in friendlies at all levels.

The good news is that our youth squads in the coming years are going to be full of not just skilled but experienced players which can only be good for the game here and the Phoenix.

Just in case anyone thought that winning on the field isnt an answer. Check out the crowd at the 'canes v highlanders match at the stadium tonight..... 15,500 - amazing what winning regularly can do huh?

You can't really compare the two sports but I do agree to a point. Yup, there is a direct correlation between winning games and crowd numbers. This is the first thing to get people back.

The Hurricanes have a lot of star players who would draw a crowd. Beauden Barrett was recently awarded the best rugby player in the world. Beauden Barrett, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara are not just great players, they have a big presence off the field. Large social media followings and are easily recognisable by the kids. Roy Krishna would be our closest star player but maybe not to the extent of Marco Rojas or Paul Ifill?

The Hurricanes crowd size is a lot higher when we play a New Zealand side. The Hurricanes wouldn't get that against the Rebels or Stormers. 

Disagree im afraid this isnt the first Hurricanes team with some big personalities and that didnt seem to help with crowds. Has little to do with the team personal and more the fact they are winning.Their crowd figures have got much better in the last 2/3 seasons against most teams not just NZ ones because they are winning more than who they have in the team.

There haven’t been any posts in the thread for nine days now, so that must mean we’re fixed, right?

We've run out of answers that would make sense.

As if we did not have enough to endure already, this season, now this latest instalment of The Revenge of the Metrics:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/10...

On the front page of Stuff, but looks like a straight reprint from the Australian wire service.

I honestly don't think there is anything we punters can do. We're not going to increase the crowds without the team winning more games. The owners aren't spending the money and attracting the standard of player or the right coach to help us win. Our only chance is an independent A League with our man, Morrison, at the top table - otherwise we are fudgeed.....

We are fudgeed, the only noise coming from the owners is that cat hating cod making "I'm bored" sounds and "I'm getting out" comments. Our season is over and you'd like to think that maybe just maybe someone in the cku  is actually thinking "how do I make next season better?" - owners who want to actually spend money in the right places might help.

with two full seasons left, next season is the big one for us. FFA can't really decide our fate with less than 12 months left on our license, so next season has to be huge

plenty of time for welnix to fix or fudge it up.

Even if Wynne has just been named in MLS team of the week, and Colorado tracking okay in MLS?

The Phoenix would be better off with Bill Tuiloma, Elliot Collier, Jake Gleeson, Stefan Marinovic etc. Especially a quality keeper without losing an import slot. I assume though these players are a lot better off playing MLS than for Wellington?