What the Phoenix could learn from the Warriors

Timely that you've raised this Warriors comparison JD as our new WP owners take control ...AND we get ANOTHER crack at discussing the multiple issues confronting WP re youth team and development, funding sources, inter-confederation restrictions and professional/amateur competition rules,..and learning to win away!
What's required at this juncture is a "Wellington Phoenix Unified Theory Of Everything Football"
- a strategy to take the WP to the next level.. on the WP's terms.. that solves the multiple dilemmas the WP faces. Straddling confederation, country and professional/amateur boundaries,whilst they identify and foster youth talent and simultaneously provide meaningful, rigourous competition for both youth and reconditioning players...and all THAT just to put them on the same playing field as other A League franchises.
Looking at the Warriors, despite the structural differences, peak competition location differences and "who pays for it?" issues, plus other issues identified above there are surely fundamental insights that can be gained.

In their development model the Warriors have taken control of their entire organisation and created a unified culture and environment for success  through all levels, both playing rosters and staff.It is obvious in the way the senior team and management conduct themselves, both on field and off, it seems to have filtered through the lower ranks too.Their self belief and composure is evident.This obviously has gone hand in hand with selection of a well balanced skillful roster of players with key support staff.It didn't happen overnight but the results (so far!) are there to be seen.

Could we not,as Jeff has just alluded to above, "Capitalise" on the football energy, teams and resources already in Wellington and generate for WP what the Warriors have in Auckland?


RedGed2011-09-30 11:09:57

I think TW should pick up more young talent, and if I was the coach/manager, I would be using the locality of the phoenix as a big sell

Isn't the more analagous model the Breakers, they have the NZNBL feeds the ANBL with talented kids looking to pick up US College Contracts?

Their model for winning the League was bringing home Ryan Nelsen (Penny - yes slightly different, maybe Chris Killen), buying the best most experienced player in the league (someone give me the A-League version of CJ Bruton), getting two great imports and then surrounding that lot with talented Kiwis.

The Warriors and Breakers have one big hand up on the Phoenix and it basically boils down to 'International Transfers' - they do not exist in the same vein as FIFA law. Jeff Vader2011-09-30 11:44:56

I would agree- It would be like getting Nelsen, and Broich. Then having Ifill and possibly anther high calibre import.

But its also mentality that is key

Jeff Vader2011-09-30 11:50:19

Another thing with the Junior Warriors is that they are not allowed to train between the hours of 9 and 5. They must either have jobs or be in full time study. Thats the rules of the NRL.

RedGed - I think you've summed up exactly what I have been trying (and failing) to get across.  Great post!

Some really interesting stuff in this article.

Would the Phoenix provide them with an education like MAGS do?

Cheers JD
I just got where you were heading to, thats all.
We've had some incredible insights from vastly experienced football people on the YF forums in the past 4/5 seasons .With the New WP Order taking control, we hope they, and those they appoint to the board will develop strategies that address the key issues and initiatives that will progress the Phoenix forward.., for instance, the Warriors development model, what's applicable for WP in that model, and what's not.

Personally I think that TW should be seen as a feeder club for the Phoenix, made up mainly of  aspiring younger players, and training one day a week at least with the Nix and having practice games with them regularly, (similar to what Vader said above).Owned and operated by the Seven as an amateur team, but having employment / education opportunities through their enterprises.

how does TW feel about this idea though?

At being a pathway to professional football for youngsters? Pretty good I'd hope

JD's idea about getting younger players in is a good one IMO. I think that's one of the key problems with the US college scholarship route - by the time you finish your degree you are just too old to really be looking for your first professional club. In Europe and South America players join academies at young ages and as a result are exposed to a professional environment for longer and thus develop faster, especially in technique which is an area that NZ football is not exactly noted for. Consider how many professional players were at the U20 WC vs our amateur boys. If kids could train with the Phoenix from say 15, then they have 3 years of pro training before they even leave high school. Of course this throws up issues about whether this would stop players being able to get those US scholarships but I guess the key point is are these hypothetical youngsters aiming for the safety of a fully funded degree to fall back on (US scholarship) or gambling on a career as a pro footballer (Nix youth players).

how exactly this could be managed I'm not sure but I think its something that needs to be seriously looked at. Ideally I think it would be great if the magnificent 7 could hire a youth development officer/scout/coach who would focus solely on this aspect of things

The other point is that the NRL is the best league for league in the world and its youth league must be one of the best.

In no way can the same be said about the A-league.

We're apparently ignoring very valid points like that martinb

Yes NRL and Youth League is probably best in world, so surely perfect to apply the principles and methods that will benefit the WP, given the similarities?
 Maybe they'll be too good for the A-League then?  Bugger.





RedGed2011-10-02 16:11:34

Don't agree with this.  Another entitiy maybe but Wellington's better senior players deserve the same chances as players do in every other centre in New Zealand to play national league football.

If the whole ASB Premiership went youth maybe but watching Wiremu Patrick, or George Barbarouses when his head is in the game is a joy and I wouldn't like to miss that option for a football fix on a Phoenix week off.

It would also cause all the same problems detailed before whereby if they switch between teams they need standdown periods and international transfers which aren't practical.

Yeh don't drop the ball!

While the idea of looking at the Warriors model may seem good initially.The practicalities of it working in football is really stretching it a bit at the moment.Wouldnt it require some concessions to be  made by a number of different parties, plus the whole stand down thing. This is NZ football your talking about and when did someone put their own interests aside for the benefit of the game.
It took ages for the Warriors to get things right as there was much self interest in stopping the various parties working together.

If those rules were NZ footballs I think they would be flexible.  The problem is that they are FIFA's rules.