Will the Phoenix Rise 2009/10?

Will the Phoenix Rise 2009/10?

Despite where the Phoenix finish on the league table this season and whether or not they make the play offs, I think it has been a disappointing season and a step backwards rather than forwards compared to the first season, even though we finished last in the league.  The standard of football played by the Phoenix is poor and there is hardly any entertainment value.  The Phoenix are not up to the technical standard of the other A-League clubs and in this sense their current fifth position is I think misleading.  In the first season the team played better, more entertaining football and gave cause for leaping out of the seat on numerous occasions at each game.  But not so this season.  The games are a drab affair.  I think this is the main reason why around half the fans from the first season have stopped coming.  This should be a major concern for the club.  It's not principally the recession, which only became a news issue well into the season, or the fact that most home games are played on a Sunday (about half of last year's home games were also played on Sundays).  Even giving away free tickets recently (e.g., the 2 for 1 deal and free entry for kids under 17) has failed to boost home attendances.

We should sign Mate Dragicevic. He was awesome.

Or this guy  Massi Bugduv, the 16-year-old hotshot of Moldovan football

Interesting views. Don't want to pick too many holes in them but: Jag2009-01-16 14:50:25

WTF?? a Dissapointment?

Hardly!

Most people at the start of the season thought 5th, challenging for top 4, was acceptable. For some reason now it isn't acceptable and it's disappointing.

Royal, my comments were made irrespective of the team's current position or whether or not they make the play offs.  I just personally think that the football this season is poor quality and lacking as an entertainment brand and that this is an important issue if the Phoenix are to have a long-term promising future and is they are to grow the fan base. 

Stevo2009-01-16 15:17:55

Don't think anybody would argue that the football hasn't exactly been spectacular to watch

I somehow think dissapointing is the wrong word to use - we have played some entertaining football at times. The trouble is when we have tried to play the free flowing entertaining footy we've lost which is not good - which I guess is why we've moved to a more grinding out results style. We've deserved every point we've got at the moment and I think we can be proud of a 5th spot or higher if we manage to get into the finals.

Thanks for the response Jag.

For me personally, Dodd has been one of our best central defenders over the last two seasons.  In central defence, he is very reliable and attempts to play football rather than just kicking the ball to where ever. 

Perhaps Durante and Mckain could shine in better quality sides, but I have serious doubts about Lochhead, Sigmund and Brown being able to do so.  On his day Bertos can be very good, but he is also inconsistent (witness his crosses, which for a professional player are too often diabolical).

I think Herbert is a good coach.  It's often too easy to just land all the blame on the coach when it is the quality of the players at his disposal that is the real issue.  OK, Herbert (along with the owner and the management) need to be accountable for and take responsibility for recruitment.  So I would be looking for significant improvemnt on that front in season three.  Season one was too rushed, but I think season two hasn't worked out anywhere as wll as people had anticipated.  This needs to be rectified quickly because otherwise I think we will struggle to even hold a mid-table position in the A-League over the longer term.

I think what is widely accepted is that, to be contenders, the Phoenix will need to sign 4+ significantly better players in key positions - in addition to replacing Moss and Dodd (assuming he goes).

Three strikers, AM and a keeper.

McKain is one of the best DM's in the league.

Meanwhile Sigmund is the first name on the team sheet.
Hard News2009-01-16 16:27:51

Well Ricki (or was it Terry) said we were going to import only 4 players and all would be overseas.

Someone claimed that in a TV commentary, but at the moment we only have 14 signed, 18 seems a bit light for an extended competition... and in that 14 the closest we have to a striker are nothing rhymes with and Party all the time

I think you're absolutely right Whitby Boy.  Not only will we need to recruit several good quality players to be contenders but also to perform respectably in the A-League over the longer term.  Perhaps we can secure a mid-table position this season and even make the play offs.  But if we keep the same general quality of players we have now and play the sort of football we've played this season, I think this season will just be a lucky one-off and the other teams will easily beat us in seasons to come and the fans will become more and more disinterested. 

It is a tall order to identify and recruit top quality players, to build a marketable entertainment brand that attracts a robust fan base, and to be a serious contender.  But that's the business the Phoenix are in and as the owner that's what I'd be looking for.  It's hard work, but the right players will be out there somewhere as it's a big football world. 

Romanians?
I see an opening here..

Stevo2009-01-16 16:43:39

Wasn't there an interview before the match? Although the comments were probably meaning that they will be signing 4 new import players plus replacing key postitions because I wouldn't want to waste an import spot on a GK.

Its 5 next season.

As against importing someone from... Auckland?

I think you're right HN - three quality strikers would be ideal with one of them being of marquee quality, if that were possible for the club to fund.  I think that would also make it easier to bring Costa through the ranks.  But I think we definitely need a playmaker in midfield - someone who's comfortable on the ball and got the ability and talent to search for the pass and set things up in attack.  McKain is a good DM player and arguably would shine even more with better players around him if the Phoenix's recruitment goes well for next season.

I know some people have raved on about our defence, but we've still let in a huge number of goals (28 to date, I think), and that's after some brilliant and memorable displays by our two goalkeepers. 

 

Has Plodder been resigned yet?

Check the link in the FAQ.

Im guessing you meant youth team but I would hope by next season we will either have a youth team in the NYL or a reserve team in the NZFC.wellyphoenixfan2009-01-16 17:03:14

Sorry Wellyphoenixfan, I meant youth team.  Regarding the NZFC, I thought that isn't an option because of the Oceania.Asia conflict.  What's the story there HN?

Its more the NZFC clubs that have a problem with it IIRC and issues regarding if we qualify for the CWC.

If it was NZFC I suspect they wouldn't be eilligible for the O-league and probably not even to win the NZFC title.  The question is whether the incvestment is better made in joining the NYL or ferrying NZFC sides around for non-competitive matches.

The other question is who pays... and would then money be better spent on first team strength ?

Romanian league was ranked 7th in Europe at the start of this season I believe. But that belies the point - aspiring young players in that league will be looking to move further up, rather than down a level or two.

If you recruit there (as well as other countries you mentioned), you're looking at washed up pros who aren't good enough to cut it anymore, or younger players who were never good enough to make it there anyway. It's a risky recruitment policy, hence my Mate Dragicevic comment. Although I guess it is possible that we could find a very good player for us somewhere over there.

So did Moss.
But I was hinting more towards myself. lol.

el grapadura, I take your point about Mate Dragicevic, but isn't Croatia quite a big exporter of footballers to Europe.  And, surely there must be leagues around Europe that are not in the top tier but where the talent is better than the A-League.  Some of these leagues are probably not even pro but semi-pro.

Any reasons you know why Dragicevic turned out to be a dud?

 

Pass it to Tony and Ricki.

I read the first paragraph before I got bored axmfc, and I agreed with it.  The Phoenix are not going to ever attract a big fanbase because they don't play attractive football.  We support them because we're brainwashed and fanatical, but if we weren't and we went to a game I think most of us wouldn't be completely impressed.

Basically what I'm saying is we need to play more attractive football to keep the crowd we've got and to, in time, enlarge it.

axmfc has some good points, especially about the style of football we have played.

Other A-League coaches have said that the phoenix are a tough side to break down...well organised in defense. We all know that tthe problems are more forward.

A poll preseason confirmed that most people would be happy with a 5th or 6th place. We have achieved that and made progress. The key will be to continue that progress next year.

Agree loyalgunner.  The real fanatical football fans will keep going.  But I think Wellington's the best city for supporting sport in NZ (akin to Melbourne) and the Phoenix can grow the fan base considerably if it can produce and market well a truly entertaining product.  I think the first season proved that.  Wellington was really captured by the exciting play of the Phoenix in that first year and the fans kept coming even though we finished last.  It was the best football I'd ever seen in NZ by a long shot.