Wellington Phoenix Men

Will the Phoenix Rise 2009/10?

99 replies · 969 views
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The guys you mention will be OK Zinidane (I'd add Dodds) if we can get the core of the team based around four quality imports and perhaps a marquee player.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Romanians? I see an opening here..

�

McKain played in Romania and reckons that it's regarded as one of the best leagues in Europe.�


Well he would be wrong

Normo's coming home

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WHO LET THE DODDS OUT?
Arsenal2009-01-16 21:13:24

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:
......however I disagree about our defence being crap. OK we have shipped 28 goals but 10 of those were in 2 games.....
 
.....other A-League coaches have said that the phoenix are a tough side to break down...well organised in defense. We all know that tthe problems are more forward.....
 
I have deducted the 2 worst games (scores against, in ( )s) from each teams current goals against (the alternative was watching America's next top model  ) results;
 
Adelaide (6) 12, Roar (7) 15, Nix (10) 18, Melbourne (7) 20, Mariners (7) 21, Sydney (7) 22, Newcastle (8) 26 and Perth (9) 29
 
So, discounting every teams 2 "shockers" we have the third best defensive record.
 
Assuming, next season, Paston (or whoever) can repeat Moss's heroics of this season then I agree with you Zini - we have a very solid defensive foundation to build on for next season.
 
As I think everyone agrees - the challenges for off season recruitment are mainly in the front half of the park.
 
Whitby boy2009-01-16 21:19:18
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
(I'd add Dodds)


Dodd, please, please its dodd

Normo's coming home

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Axmfc, can't argue with you about the quality of the football, but it has produced far better results than last year so I don't know how you could say we're a worse team. I think you underestimate the quality of some of our players. They may not have played there best football throughout the year but a number of the names you mention would definitely be sought out by other coaches, but anyway that's by the by.

I'd love to have a side built around your four quality overseas players, one of them a marquee. But there are so many things that make that suggestion a lot more difficult than it sounds:

1. History - the history of overseas players, including marquees, in the A-League has been really mixed with probably more failures than successes. CC, arguably the most consistent side in the league have never used an overseas player, Adelaide have done well this year but generally haven't had much success, ours have been pretty average, Melbourne have probably had the best run with them (but they've also had good Australians too). The quality of imports that have been attracted to the league has been fairly poor. But the only winning side that has generally been based around imports was Melbourne and after they lost those guys, especially Fred, they had a real hangover and missed the finals. Which brings me on to my next point...

2. Continuity - imports so far haven't stuck around in the A-League which means that every year you having to replace some of your quality players. That means you're taking a chance with your best players every 1-2 seasons. And a high turnover of good players is always going to be tough, you don't form combinations and you're not going to play good football, look at Sydney this year, loads of talent thrown together but never gelled. We want a core group that we can keep together for several seasons, you don't want to have to reassemble your team each year. Again, look at Melbourne, Adelaide and CC. They've had the most settled sides over the short history of the A-League and have generally been the teams to beat.

3. Weak NZD/strong Euro/Salary Cap - to attract good players that are playing in the Northern Hemisphere, especially in Europe we have to compete financially. With the strength of the Euro that is difficult and makes imports relatively expensive compared to NZ/Australians who are ultimately looking to spend their money here, rather than benchmarking it for back home. Obviously this isn't a factor if we are getting guys from Sth America/Asia, where our currencies are so pathetic but that means we are again competing with better paying leagues, notably the K-League and the J-League. Additionally, as imports are generally more expensive it eats up salary cap space, with higher paid Aussies on our books I'm not sure we could afford 4 imports. We have to get people to commit to come half way round the world, possibly to a country they've never been to in a league they've never heard of, to play football - that's going to take some wedge.

4. Language - self evident. We don't have money to spend on whiz bang translators, it's harder to integrate players etc etc.

Overall, I think that a great marquee player is our best bet, and a genuine box to box midfielder but basing our team around foreign imports is a risk. We need to consolidate on what we have, replace those departing and set up for a more enterprising style next season. In most leagues around the world the team that concedes the least goals wins...

Normo's coming home

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:

Axmfc, can't argue with you about the quality of the football, but it has produced far better results than last year so I don't know how you could say we're a worse team. I think you underestimate the quality of some of our players. They may not have played there best football throughout the year but a number of the names you mention would definitely be sought out by other coaches, but anyway that's by the by.

I'd love to have a side built around your four quality overseas players, one of them a marquee. But there are so many things that make that suggestion a lot more difficult than it sounds:

1. History - the history of overseas players, including marquees, in the A-League has been really mixed with probably more failures than successes. CC, arguably the most consistent side in the league have never used an overseas player, Adelaide have done well this year but generally haven't had much success, ours have been pretty average, Melbourne have probably had the best run with them (but they've also had good Australians too). The quality of imports that have been attracted to the league has been fairly poor. But the only winning side that has generally been based around imports was Melbourne and after they lost those guys, especially Fred, they had a real hangover and missed the finals. Which brings me on to my next point...

2. Continuity - imports so far haven't stuck around in the A-League which means that every year you having to replace some of your quality players. That means you're taking a chance with your best players every 1-2 seasons. And a high turnover of good players is always going to be tough, you don't form combinations and you're not going to play good football, look at Sydney this year, loads of talent thrown together but never gelled. We want a core group that we can keep together for several seasons, you don't want to have to reassemble your team each year. Again, look at Melbourne, Adelaide and CC. They've had the most settled sides over the short history of the A-League and have generally been the teams to beat.

3. Weak NZD/strong Euro/Salary Cap - to attract good players that are playing in the Northern Hemisphere, especially in Europe we have to compete financially. With the strength of the Euro that is difficult and makes imports relatively expensive compared to NZ/Australians who are ultimately looking to spend their money here, rather than benchmarking it for back home. Obviously this isn't a factor if we are getting guys from Sth America/Asia, where our currencies are so pathetic but that means we are again competing with better paying leagues, notably the K-League and the J-League. Additionally, as imports are generally more expensive it eats up salary cap space, with higher paid Aussies on our books I'm not sure we could afford 4 imports. We have to get people to commit to come half way round the world, possibly to a country they've never been to in a league they've never heard of, to play football - that's going to take some wedge.

4. Language - self evident. We don't have money to spend on whiz bang translators, it's harder to integrate players etc etc.

Overall, I think that a great marquee player is our best bet, and a genuine box to box midfielder but basing our team around foreign imports is a risk. We need to consolidate on what we have, replace those departing and set up for a more enterprising style next season. In most leagues around the world the team that concedes the least goals wins...


their, not there.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
How about players from some of these places? - most would speak English and most have reasonable success on the international stage:
 
USA, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Swden, Norway, Finland.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
good post james Dean.
 
I would not envy Tony P and Rickie in the recruitment area. We have only been going 2 seasons and already there is a sorry list of recruits that have not reached the pass mark. By that I don't mean they were not good players but players that just did not fit in and give the club a positive outcome. Try these for starters
 
George, Gao, Cleberson, Felipe...then add afew Oz/kiwi's Kwasnik, Mulligan. O'Dor, Old, El**ch
 
Thats 9 in two years. Thats a very poor rate of return...everyone of those failures has cost the club a considerable amount of time and money. I am sure that Rickie...being an international coach has some good contacts. But the reality is until the player is settled and playing you don't really know what you are getting. We may well get 4 imports but the stats would suggest that only 2 of them would end up being " the real deal" .Thats an expensive rate of return.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
got a question for whoever wrote this post. Do you actually go to the Stadium every time?
 
Also, the fact that, with two games to go, we still have a chance to qualify for the play-off means that even if we had played like sh*t (which we haven't) for all season, this is a great SUCCESS.
Sure, last year we had more attacking flair, but did it come to your mind that last year we were a NEW club? Nobody new of Daniel, Felipe, Smeltzy et cetera. They didn't know what to expect, and since our results were far from positive (although we did play some attractive football), many teams underestimated us.
 
This year they know us better. They know that if you take out Bertos, Daniel and shut Smeltz it's harder for us to score goals. And that's what teams have been doing all season, thus making it harder for us. Despite all this, Smeltzy netted 12, Bertos has proved a major attacking force/provider for us, and we've won a f**kload of games!
 
Also, you can have everything. If Man Utd or Chelsea can't, how can we?! I agree that at times we didn't play as we should have. But the positives surpass the negatives by a long stretch.

Always loved the Nix, but last year, watching our defence, I often thought that I could have done a better job (and I was probably right). Look at the major improvement in our defensive game (and our game in the middle of the park too).
Last year the Oz's scored whenver they wanted, pretty much. This year it's a f**king hard deed for them to accomplish. And half the time, even if they do score, we equalize or even come back from behind and win the game.


To conclude, I read your post and I do share with you a certain feeling that the team you love should always play like Real Madrid, should put 200% every sunday and should kick arse. But the reality is different. When you're playing Sydney, Melbourne, Central Coast away from home you can't play with 3 strikers. Simply because if you do you'll be 3-0 down at half time.
Therefore I don't agree with most of what you've written. As I said some of your ideas are quite right in principle but you have to stop talking about failure and look on the bright side.
 
 
I just hope (as you probably do as well) that the Nix will prove you wrong and f**king make the finals!

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:

 Not only will we need to recruit several good quality players to be contenders but also to perform respectably in the A-League over the longer term.  Perhaps we can secure a mid-table position this season and even make the play offs.  But if we keep the same general quality of players we have now and play the sort of football we've played this season, I think this season will just be a lucky one-off and the other teams will easily beat us in seasons to come and the fans will become more and more disinterested. 

It is a tall order to identify and recruit top quality players, to build a marketable entertainment brand that attracts a robust fan base, and to be a serious contender.  But that's the business the Phoenix are in and as the owner that's what I'd be looking for.  It's hard work, but the right players will be out there somewhere as it's a big football world. 

 
A lot of common sense. And I thought your original post at the top of this thread was top class. A must read.
 
In case the word gets lost in this discussion, we must remember football is ENTERTAINMENT. Fighting for dollars and attention against all the other entertainment industries. A football team that can only grind out results is not going to attract significant numbers of punters or viewers.
 
I agree with the idea already finding favour on this thread of looking in more remote corners of the globe. There must be many potentially top class A-League footballers who'd jump at the chance to be big fish in a smaller bowl.
 
With that in mind, I'd love to see the Nix form some sort of bond - however workman-like - with Wynton Rufer. I'd suggest he has more clout in world football than any other Kiwi. And could be great for tapping his international contacts to identify the sorts of players the Nix needs. 
 
Maybe he's doing it already for some other A-League team? I don't know. And I don't know what the dynamics are between him and the Nix top brass.
 
But Wynton and Terry (or Tony or Ricki), don't have to be bosum buddies. Just people interested in the development of an attractive, Wellington based, and ENTERTAINING football team.
 
Would Rufer really be immune to an approach if it was handled properly? Maybe a neutral third party doing the preliminary work? Have the Nix even considered going down this road?
 
Love him or hate him, Rufer is too good a resource not to be in the Nix corner. 
 
 
scribbler2009-01-17 11:50:57
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
The man is a numpty.  Move on.
 
Why is Rufer a numpty (whatever that is!).
 
Let's get some other opinions, first. Remember,  one man's numpty...
 
And some people might get less numpty with age. Your turn could come.
scribbler2009-01-17 12:13:43
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Too many stories of him engineering confrontations with NZ Football, and being all about what is in it for Wynton.
 
How good are your sources?
 
And though it might be difficult to get him on side, doesn't mean it's impossible!
 
We don't want him to play for us and risk disrupting the squad. Just open his contacts book and make a few calls.
 
If we don't ask, we'll never know.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The stories about Rufer's attitude are legendary. Not gonna happen.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
The stories about Rufer's attitude are legendary. Not gonna happen.
 
But still worth a shot. What's the worst that can happen? He says No!
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He says Yes!

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Napier Phoenix wrote:
How about players from some of these places? - most would speak English and most have reasonable success on the international stage:
�

USA, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Swden, Norway, Finland.


But surely they can all earn more in their home league, or in other european leagues. They earn euros, they have much more of a chance of being spotted by a bigger clu. Put it this way, if they are prepared to come and play for us, why haven't they got better offers in their home countries or europe?

And on Wynton, there are plenty of people with the same amount of connections that don't come with the baggage, and who are going to make a positive contribution.james dean2009-01-17 12:51:24

Normo's coming home

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
scribbler wrote:
I agree with the idea already finding favour on this thread of�looking in more remote corners of the globe.�There must be many potentially top class A-League footballers who'd jump at the chance to be big fish in a smaller bowl.

[

Every club in the world is out there looking for the next big thing, there are hundred and hundreds of agents and scouts out there looking. We use scouts and agents but you're kidding yourself if you think we're going to be able to establish our own scouting networks. We get what we can, but a lot of that is a selection of what is offered to us by those scouts and agents.

Normo's coming home

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

for what ever reasons its a tragedy that Rufer has not been more of use to NZ football. The guy has sat on top level fIFA committees....he is a personal friend of star ex Brazilian players. Forget the personalities...get Rufer to ring Cafu and tell him the Phoenix need a few good Brazilian players.Talented people are often difficultneed to know how to deal with them. When you see how well(not) that some NZ football officilas have ru the game here do you wonder why Rufer gets frustrated?

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

You raised some very good, valid points earlier on James Dean.

Obviously from a results / position-on-the-table perspective, the Phoenix are in a better space than in the previous season.  Sides do periodically do well (and even win leagues!) playing a poor brand of football that lacks excitment and entertainment.  However, usually they're one season wonders.  Luckily, in the end football typically wins out and I suspect the way that the Phoenix have played this season will not sustain them over the longer term.  More importantly, it won't keep the less than hardcore fans interested enough and the average Wellington crowd size could further decline (I suspect the hardcore fans probably currently number no more than 3 or 4,000).

I do think that we lack a core or nucleus of players within the current squad that is capable of playing good, entertaining football and that will consistently seriously challenge the other clubs.  In particular, we are lacking in the midfield and striker departments.  There is a need to inject several quality players - better than any of the ones we have now - into the squad who can more than hold their own in the A-League, if we are to win back the missing fans from the first season and to seriously challenge the top echelon of the A-League.
 
The reason why I saw the best strategy as building the team around a core of four quality imports and possibly a marquee player is, firstly, that I don't see us attracting the real good Aussie players and, secondly, the Kiwi talent pool is extremely limited (realistically, probably at this time non-existent, in terms of what's required for the A-League).
 
All your points / concerns about foreign players are legitimate issues.  However, on the history front, I think clubs will get better at identifying and recruiting overseas talent as experience grows and as scouting and agency networks become better established.  I think that Adelaide, Melbourne and Queensland in particular are now finally reaping the benefits of several quality overseas players.
 
On the continuity front, which is a real problem in terms of efficiency and building the club from season to season, I think clubs will eventually need to commit to longer term contracts for quality players, e.g., offer 3-5 year contracts rather than the current 1-2 year contracts.  If an offshore club becomes interested in a player before the contract expires, then a profitable transfer fee can be negotiated.  Obviously, offering longer term contracts is riskier and it means the clubs would need to do their homework and be very prudent in signing up players.
 
While it is relatively expensive to recruit offshore, the reality is that the FFA allows this and other clubs are setting the benchmark and the standard of the A-League by bringing in imports.  To be competitive I think we will need to do the same because there isn't enough top quality talent in Australia and the position in this regard in NZ is much worse.
 
The language problem is a nuisance but football is a truly international sport - there are all sorts of nationalities playing all over the globe.  While it's good to do without it, I see the language problem as probably the least of the issues you raised. 
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
newzealandpower, you make some good and useful points, some which I wouldn't disagree with (see earlier dialogue above).
 
I have been to every Phoenix home game last season and this season (both pre-season and A-League games) and watched a number of away games on the screen at the Four Kings (mainly in the first season).  I am passionate about football and will continue to support the Phoenix and Terry S's commitment to a professional club in Wellington.
 
My post wasn't meant to be negative or focus on failure, but rather to be positive with regard to the future of the Phoenix with respect to growing the fan base in Wellington and seeing the Phoenix win the league and make the play offs (which they could still do this season).
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=zinidane]

for what ever reasons its a tragedy that Rufer has not been more of use to NZ football. The guy has sat on top level fIFA committees....he is a personal friend of star ex Brazilian players. Forget the personalities...get Rufer to ring Cafu and tell him the Phoenix need a few good Brazilian players.Talented people are often difficultneed to know how to deal with them. When you see how well (not) that some NZ football officilas have ru the game here do you wonder why Rufer gets frustrated?

I agree with you Zinidane that it is a tragedy that we haven't had the benefit of Rufer's experience and contacts.  It would be great if this were a workable option.  I don't know the ins and outs of the politics concerning Rufer and NZ football / a NZ professional club in the A-League.  Although as far as I'm aware there hasn't been any public information over the years, I've always sensed there were issues and tensions.  Obviously HN and some others have sources that enable them to judge the situation with more information.  While having a committed Rufer on board would be great, perhaps the politics unfortunately make this unworkable, as HN and others suggest, no matter how great a player Rufer was and regardless of the quality of his contacts.

 

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
[QUOTE=Napier Phoenix] How about players from some of these places? - most would speak English and most have reasonable success on the international stage:
 

USA, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Swden, Norway, Finland.


But surely they can all earn more in their home league, or in other european leagues. They earn euros, they have much more of a chance of being spotted by a bigger clu. Put it this way, if they are prepared to come and play for us, why haven't they got better offers in their home countries or europe?

You're right James Dean that we, and other clubs in the A-League, can't compete for players who have the quality (or, in the case of younger players, potentially have the quality) to ply their trade in good European leagues.  There's no point therefore in us targetting these players.  But there will be a sector of the player market consisting of players who are more than good enough to play in the A-League and/or Asian leagues but who aren't up to playing in the better European leagues.  These players can be attracted to Australia or Asia because these areas have professional leagues that will offer these players a decent living and provide the leagues with top quality.  Also, some of these players, particularly in places such as South America and Eastern Europe, will be playing in better leagues than the A-League but, because their economies are poorer, will be earning an inferior living compared to what they could earn playing in the A-League.  They will find the A-League attractive and we should be aimimg to identify and lure these players. 
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
These players can be attracted to Australia or Asia because these areas have professional leagues that will offer these players a decent living and provide the leagues with top quality.� Also, some of these players, particularly in places such as�South America�and Eastern�Europe, will be playing in better leagues than the A-League but, because their economies are poorer, will be earning an inferior living compared to what they could earn�playing in the A-League.� They will find the A-League�attractive and we should be aimimg to identify and lure these players.�

�


This is wishful thinking. Simply because some of those economies are worse off than New Zealand, doesn't make New Zealand a more attractive proposition to play professional football in. The incentive is to move to a bigger league with bigger money, and the A-league with its fairly modest salary cap certainly isn't that.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can I just say I'm loving this intelligent discussion, the lack of complete bollocks is somewhat refreshingbopman2009-01-17 15:27:26

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:

Any reasons you know why Dragicevic turned out to be a dud?


�



Dragicevic is a dud - couldn't cut it in HNL, couldn't cut it in the A-league.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
[QUOTE=james dean] [QUOTE=Napier Phoenix] How about players from some of these places? - most would speak English and most have reasonable success on the international stage:
 

USA, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Swden, Norway, Finland.


 
 
I lived in Europe for a fair bit of last year. The reality is that NZ is so far off peoples radar its unbeliveable. Most people have only a very vague idea of NZ. Playing football in NZ would never for a moment be considered by most professional footballers.
 
I think our best recruits would be along the lines of your McCains and Porters. There are over 100 Australians playing in europe. They would be easier to resettle in this part of the world. You want decent players who know the football landscape. If you take Sth Americans its just too hit and miss. Sure they may have the talent. But they have to make a huge adjustment to live and play football in this part of the world.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yeah thats exactly true. ^  for most people in europe it would be seen pretty low to play football in new zealand than somewhere like holland. I geuss people may think its an easy way to pro football tho. I sure terry and ricki should look into it?
 
australians are good targets.. because I geuss they still live in australia? most of our australians would be mainly based in aussie wouldnt they?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:
Can I just say I'm loving this intelligent discussion, the lack of complete bollocks is somewhat refreshing
+1
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In relation to players from other leagues:  not everyone playing football has aspirations of playing for the Reals and Man U's of this world. In fact most players would know before they were 20 if their future realistically involved playing at the very highest level. Like many of us that  travelled to other countries to work, there will be footballers who want to do that too. Look at the basketball, plenty of decent players come down here and play and many stay for good.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agree/disagree with the original post.  Overall I think we've played a higher standard of football than last season.  25 pts from 19 games vs 20 from 21 indicates this.  However, almost all the improvement has been due to a better defence.  Not hard since it was diabolical last season.  Attack has often been dour, and thats what we mostly come to see.

For a taste of what might have been, think back to the 2-1 home win vs Melbourne, the best I've ever seen us play.  We briefly had Fred in midfield. I think this highlights where the basic problem has been - little creativity or attacking thrust from midfield.  In season one Felipe (at times) played this role.  So did Daniel but he has faded this year. To my mind add a decent attacking mid and a second striker and we'd have been formidable.  With Smeltz gone thats three to find next year.

I've enjoyed the season and have never missed a game when I've been in Wellington.  Sign Fred plus a couple of competent strikers (ok big ask) and I'll back us for top four in season 3.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If we go for those who have English as a second language, I think we should go for Brazilians first.

There are heaps of them cos it's such a popular sport there. They are marketable to the NZ public as much as or more than any other nationality (i.e. NZ public associates Brazil with soccer).
Plus we have Daniel to help them integrate.

I would have thought Lei Lei Gao being the only Chinese speaker in the team might have been a reason why things didn't work out with him.

Also, the point on continuity that James Dean raised - does it really take more than a few months for combinations to be established?
I can't imagine the same group of players getting consistently better over multiple seasons due to knowing each other's play better - I would have thought this only improves over medium term (within 1 season) not long term.

Definitely want to see the Nix be a more attacking side; though I'm glad we've got the defense mostly sorted.

We need more pacy players; none of our defenders are fast.
Only Bertos seems to have any real speed. Players like Zullo and Rukyavitsa are exciting to watch.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bevan, continuity is very important long-term and the longer players are together the better they play together, they develop that telepathic understanding you hear about, where one player KNOWS what another player is going to do.

Why do you think top teams, who could sign any number of talented players tend to only sign one or two new first-teamers a season? They'd rather keep their already talented squad playing together than introduce several talented players they are interested in.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:
[QUOTE=axmfc][QUOTE=james dean] [QUOTE=Napier Phoenix] How about players from some of these places? - most would speak English and most have reasonable success on the international stage:
USA, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Swden, Norway, Finland.

 
Here's a great example:  a former second division striker from Holland, Sergio van Dijk, who  scored a hat trick last night for Queensland Roar against Sydney.
 
He obviously wasn't good enough to make it big in Europe, but he's been solid for the Roar since he arrived and is now starting to really repay their investment. A striker who's scoring goals (I think he now has 7 or 8).
 
We desperately need that sort of talent on our books for next season.
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
he's got 7.  Most of them in the latter half of the season.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
scribbler wrote:
[QUOTE=zinidane][QUOTE=axmfc][QUOTE=james dean] [QUOTE=Napier Phoenix] How about players from some of these places? - most would speak English and most have reasonable success on the international stage:
USA, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Swden, Norway, Finland.

 
Here's a great example:  a former second division striker from Holland, Sergio van Dijk, who  scored a hat trick last night for Queensland Roar against Sydney.
 
He obviously wasn't good enough to make it big in Europe, but he's been solid for the Roar since he arrived and is now starting to really repay their investment. A striker who's scoring goals (I think he now has 7 or 8).
 
We desperately need that sort of talent on our books for next season.
 
I agree with you Scribbler, van Dijk is a very good player.  I was at the gym this morning and watched several minutes of the Queensland/Sydney game, including the highlights shown at the interval which showed all the goals scored (including a brace by van Dijk).  It looked like a pretty good quality game.  I don't have Sky but I have seen several minutes from quite a number of the games in Australia replayed on Sky at the gym or in the pub.  Compared to the Phoenix games, the difference I notice is that the skill, technical level seems higher and the speed of the games and athleticism is more impressive.  The games are much more fluid and exciting to watch.  I appreciate that by seeing only several minutes here and there I might be misleading myself.  What do others who watch more of the A-League think?
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Critical_Lemon wrote:
Bevan, continuity is very important long-term and the longer players are together the better they play together, they develop that telepathic understanding you hear about, where one player KNOWS what another player is going to do.

Why do you think top teams, who could sign any number of talented players tend to only sign one or two new first-teamers a season? They'd rather keep their already talented squad playing together than introduce several talented players they are interested in.
 
Critical Lemon, I agree with you about the need for consistency.  That's why I suggested earlier that clubs will need to get away from signing players for just 1 or 2 seasons and look to sign them for 3-5 years.  I think this will happen as clubs become more experienced at identifying talent.  It's interesting that Gold Coast moved quickly to sign up Smeltz for 3 years.  An obviously talented player with plenty of years ahead of him.  And, if any other club is interested, they'll have to fork out a good transfer fee.  All in all, a good, shrewd investment by GCU.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
Critical_Lemon wrote:
Bevan, continuity is very important long-term and the longer players are together the better they play together, they develop that telepathic understanding you hear about, where one player KNOWS what another player is going to do.Why do you think top teams, who could sign any number of talented players tend to only sign one or two new first-teamers a season? They'd rather keep their already talented squad playing together than introduce several talented players they are interested in.

�

Critical Lemon, I agree with you about the need for consistency.� That's why I suggested earlier that clubs will need to get away from signing players for just 1 or 2 seasons and look to sign them for 3-5 years.� I think this will�happen as clubs become more experienced at identifying talent.� It's interesting that Gold Coast moved quickly to sign up Smeltz for 3 years.� An obviously talented player with plenty of years ahead of him.� And, if any other club is interested, they'll have to fork out a good transfer fee.� All in all, a good, shrewd investment by GCU.

The difficulty with long term planning in a league like ours is that if you base your team around a couple of good players they can be snapped up by better leagues, take Jedinak or North for example, CCM and NQ im sure had visions around building teams around those guys but because of their quality they have been bought by bigger clubs in bigger leagues, similarly Smeltz, if he has another decent season next year of even a good/great Confed Cup/WCQ campaign for the AW's can you see him being at GCU for 3 years.
It is very difficult to find a good balance

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
True Bopman.  It's pretty much impossible to stop the real good players like the ones you mentioned heading overseas to bigger clubs / better leagues.  But hopefully the clubs have earned good transfer fees which they can then reinvest.
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