Wellington Phoenix Men

Will the Phoenix Rise 2009/10?

99 replies · 969 views
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Queensland and to a lesser extent Sydney got it right for mind, they signed quality in Moore and Popovic, who were coming to the end of there careers therefore unlikely to be signed by other leagues, to base sides around. I guess thats what Adelaide were trying to do with Agostino as well, maybe similar to what the Knights were trying with Hay but obviously less successful

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The position on the table defenitely IS NOT misleading because if we consider that yes maybe we had a couple of lucky points, we could have had another 5 at least and if we had we could be up around third so I wouldn't call the position misleading.........All thgree games against Perth points went begging, points against Queensland at home, also (1-0 loss mainly) and a few more games

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
Critical_Lemon wrote:
Bevan, continuity is very important long-term and the longer players are together the better they play together, they develop that telepathic understanding you hear about, where one player KNOWS what another player is going to do.Why do you think top teams, who could sign any number of talented players tend to only sign one or two new first-teamers a season? They'd rather keep their already talented squad playing together than introduce several talented players they are interested in.

�

Critical Lemon, I agree with you about the need for consistency.� That's why I suggested earlier that clubs will need to get away from signing players for just 1 or 2 seasons and look to sign them for 3-5 years.� I think this will�happen as clubs become more experienced at identifying talent.� It's interesting that Gold Coast moved quickly to sign up Smeltz for 3 years.� An obviously talented player with plenty of years ahead of him.� And, if any other club is interested, they'll have to fork out a good transfer fee.� All in all, a good, shrewd investment by GCU.


Te other problem with 3-5 year contracts is the salary cap, if a player loses form, legs go etc etc you have a large wage on your books that has to be included in the cap each year.

I'd like to think we will end up with some quality attacking players next year, possibly from overseas, I think we all agree with that!

Normo's coming home

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Interesting piece on the Hyundai A-League website ("Kosmina sets sights on recruits") about Sydney FC's plans to investigate recruiting players from Russia (the club's new owner is Russian) and Asia.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
For the second week running, the useless Sunday Star Times hasn't provided any football coverage, apart from some short paragraphs about the NZFC game between Team Wellington and Auckland City tagged onto the scores/results page. However, they did print an article on well-known British actor Bill Nighy in the "Focus" section.
 
One of Nighy's great passions is football.  Without starting a new thread (and earning the wrath of HN), I thought this thread would be the most appropriate to share with you Nighy's thoughts in the article on football, given that the original theme of this thread was generally about the need for football and the Phoenix to provide entertainment and something to get excited about.  I think the extract from the article that follows is brilliant, and anyone passionate about the game will probably be able to relate to it.
 
"Crystal Palace is his team, but he tries to avoid tribalism.  'I don't really mind who's playing.       What you do is, you sit and wait for passages of great beauty.  You wait for someone - the rare individual - who will do something in a billionth of a moment.  It's over before anyone can do the maths.  You have to see it in slow motion to get the physics.  There are players able to achieve something that very few people can.  It involves great elegance and intelligence and grace - that's when I get seriously interested.  Zola, Beckham, Berbatov.  These are people who can achieve incredible things but make it beautiful as they do it.'"
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I thought Richard Johnson's insightful comments in today's The Dominion Post emphasising the need to improve the quality of the squad were interesting.  Commenting on the club, he states: "It's got good people in charge - it just needs the same quality of players.  Recruiting has to be a major factor at this club to have a chance of getting into the finals."

In my view, Johnson's stating the obvious and, in addition to getting into the finals, he could have mentioned increasing the number of spectators at the stadium.
 
However, based on the very small amount of information released by the club to date, I'm not certain the club appreciates the seriousness of the quality deficiency.  So far, Tony P has announced that, in terms of quality players, the club is looking to recruit two strikers and a midfielder, with a couple of strikers in English League One (the old Third Division) and a South American midfielder being considered.  I still think we need at least 5 or 6 quality outfield players recruited to form the core of the starting XI, including a good playmaker of the calibre of Fred.  That is, we need double the number of quality players Tony P has indicated.  I hope the club is not falling into the same mentality as last year when it thought it could get by with a single quality striker on its books, although, in hindsight, this was far from the only deficiency in the squad.   
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
we get what we can afford. - 6 quality players might be a bit beyond our means, especially after the reduced crowd numbers last season.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Your point about affordability is valid UberGunner.  The salary cap is a big constraint with respect to buying in quality, particularly when trying to recruit in the British or Western Europe markets.  But it's a constraint faced by all the clubs, and many of the other clubs (including the new boys on the block like GCU) seem to be doing a better job in assembling really competitive squads.  In addition, while there is a salary cap, it does not apply to marquee and guest players. 

While it's true that the crowd attendances were extremely disappointing last season and way down on the first season, this problem I think will persist if the Phoenix don't start playing entertaining football, which really gets back to the need to instil some quality in the squad through sharper recruitment.  I think Richard Johnson is dead right when he points out that recruiting has to be a major factor at the club, if we're to have any chance of making the finals and, importantly, growing the fan base.  
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:

  But it's a constraint faced by all the clubs, and many of the other clubs (including the new boys on the block like GCU) seem to be doing a better job in assembling really competitive squads.  [/QUOTE]

what teams?
 
[QUOTE=axmfc]

I think Richard Johnson is dead right when he points out that recruiting has to be a major factor at the club, if we're to have any chance of making the finals and, importantly, growing the fan base.  

 
I'm pretty sure recruiting is/has been/ and always will be hight on the clubs priorities
 
Caps aside - do you think Terry has bottomless pockets?

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
 
Caps aside - do you think Terry has bottomless pockets?


If Miron the mouth was our coach, apparently he would.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
One of the problems I think the Phoenix may have in making recruitment a major factor for success next season is the number of players that can be recruited, given the squad size limit.
 
Last season, the squad had 23 players, including the sacked LeiLei Gao.  Seven of that squad to date have departed or are due to go - Gao, Moss, Smeltz, Kwasnik, Coveny, Draper, and Johnson - and one - Diego - has been added.  That leaves a current squad of 17.  We need another goalkeeper to replace Moss, which would bring the squad to 18.  That leaves room for another 5 outfield players at most.
 
That's doesn't leave much room for manoeuvring to build a better quality squad from the previous season, particularly when we need another under-age player added to replace Draper (correct me if I'm wrong on this HardNews, but it is only one).  In my view, the club may need to dispense with some current players to make space for quality players that can contribute more to the core team.  The players I have in mind are Richard Mulligan (notwithstanding he has another year on his contract) and Jeremy Christie.  Both (and especially Mulligan) have had a lean season.  This is likely to continue for them, especially if the squad is at all strengthened next season.  It seems that it would therefore be better for the club and the players if Mulligan and Christie looked for greener pasturers elsewhere.  Another player I would raise a question over is Vince Lia, depending on where he is at with his injury and what contribution he is likely to make next season.  
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
axmfc wrote:

  But it's a constraint faced by all the clubs, and many of the other clubs (including the new boys on the block like GCU) seem to be doing a better job in assembling really competitive squads.  [/QUOTE]

what teams?
 
Despite the fact we finished sixth and weren't far from making the playoffs if you consider points gained, I think that realistically we're a long way from playoffs quality.  The likes of Melbourne, Adelaide, Queensland are in another league, and I think it'll be tougher next season.
 
[QUOTE=axmfc]

I think Richard Johnson is dead right when he points out that recruiting has to be a major factor at the club, if we're to have any chance of making the finals and, importantly, growing the fan base.  

 
I'm pretty sure recruiting is/has been/ and always will be hight on the clubs priorities
 
It might be high on the club's list of priorities, but in my view the club needs to do considerable work on the recruitment front to be successful, in terms of both making the play offs and getting bums on seats.
 
Caps aside - do you think Terry has bottomless pockets?
 
I doubt that he does.  But that doesn't mean the club can't spend its limited resources better in relation to building quality.  For example, I wonder how much Mulligan is getting for adding very little to the quality of the squad.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
His fortune is valued at AU$84 million in the current FFT.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I would imagine most of it is locked down in property though (what with him being a property magnate) and as the newspapers have been telling us for ages the recession and property markets and blah blah blah, would probably make selling and getting the cash required for buying serious amounts of talent difficult
GenericFan2009-02-12 19:18:12
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
Last season, the squad had 23 players, including the sacked LeiLei Gao.[/QUOTE] The maximum allowable number in the squad is 23, but we had a spare place in ours the whole season.�

[QUOTE=axmfc] In my view, the club may need to dispense with some current players to make space for quality players that can contribute more to the core team.� The players I have in mind are Richard Mulligan (notwithstanding he has another year on his contract) and Jeremy Christie.� Both (and especially Mulligan) have had a lean season.� This is likely to continue for them, especially if the squad is at all strengthened�next season.� It seems that it would therefore be better for the�club and the players if Mulligan and Christie looked for greener pasturers elsewhere.� Another player I would raise a question over is Vince Lia, depending on where�he is at with his injury and what contribution he is likely to make next season.��


Releasing players still under contract is futile - they still count under the salary cap if released. You may as well keep them in that situation.

Oh, and Mulligan's first name is David.el grapadura2009-02-12 21:55:58
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think the point made of the gap between the top three and the rest of the A-League is a valid one. What strikes me about the top three is the quality of the whole squad. They have strength in depth.....good teams win matches but good squads win championships
 
We need decent cover in all areas as well as up front. if you drop points in a season because good players are injured suspended then you are never going to reach the top.
 
There has been quite a lot of talk about needing to find a couple of good strikers...which is true. But this year we scored bugger all goals and we had the leagues best striker playing for us. This season Smeltz had around  20 shots on goal. Van Dyke had twice as many. There in lies the problem. The key recruits will be midfielders who can create, pass well, set up chances and score themselves. if we don't find these players then you could sign van nistlerooy and Killeen and still we would struggle to score.
 
I am very positive about next season. As johnson said" the right people are in control at the Phoenix" this is a huge compliment from an old pro. Ricki and co will be doing all they can to get the right players. I don't envy them...its such a hit and miss thing.
Look at this list of player who for whatever reason failed to deliver a positive outcome for the Phoenix...George, Cleberson, Felipe, Brownlie, o'dor, Mulligan, Gao, Kwasnik, Draper, Old
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Felipe is arguable but you can add El**ch to the list.
Thats 10 out of the 34 (I think) footballers who have played for the Nix, add Spoonley to the lit and thats over a third of our signings who we would probably wish had never been made, not a great return.
Oska2009-02-13 07:52:33
You know we belong together...

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Felipe was still equal top player with YFers after the first half of the season (he didnt score any points round 6-11 however).

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
In my view, the club may need to dispense with some current players to make space for quality players that can contribute more to the core team.  The players I have in mind are Richard Mulligan (notwithstanding he has another year on his contract) and Jeremy Christie.  Both (and especially Mulligan) have had a lean season.  This is likely to continue for them, especially if the squad is at all strengthened next season.  It seems that it would therefore be better for the club and the players if Mulligan and Christie looked for greener pasturers elsewhere.  Another player I would raise a question over is Vince Lia, depending on where he is at with his injury and what contribution he is likely to make next season.  
[/QUOTE]

Releasing players still under contract is futile - they still count under the salary cap if released. You may as well keep them in that situation.

Oh, and Mulligan's first name is David.
 
Don't know where "Richard" came from el grapadura - probably all the previous references to (Richard) Johnson still in the subconscious.
 
It depends on how much room there is left under the salary cap.  If a club hasn't spent too close to the limit, then it could be worthwhile to release a player still under contract to make space inside the squad limit for a better quality player, or a player needed to fill a different position.  Moreover, releasing a contracted player who is surplus to requirements may result in a saving on the total wages bill.  This is because a contracted player not getting game time may choose a negotiated lesser payout to allow him to pursue potential opportunities elsewhere.  Cleberson and George are two players whom the Phoenix opted to release early from their contracts despite their wages counting towards the season's salary cap, and it's possible that these two players didn't realise the full worth of their contracts in exchange for the opportunity to seek game time at other clubs. 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
�

It depends on how much room there is left under the salary cap.� If�a club hasn't spent too close to the limit, then it could be worthwhile to release a player still under contract to make space inside the squad limit for a better quality player, or a player needed�to fill�a different position.�


The problem with this is that you're extremely unlikely to get a better player in return considering the salary cap limitations.

The strategy that Phoenix have been employing is to not fill the squad fully - presumably so we can recruit better quality players under the salary cap, and still have a spot or two available in the squad if things really turn pear-shaped or we can get someone on the cheap. In that context I think it's unnecessary to release players from their contracts UNLESS it's truly necessary (i.e. LeiLei Gao, etc).
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