WPFC: Privately Owned or Member Owned?

WPFC: Privately Owned or Member Owned?

All,
I know you guys love Terry S, but what happens if and when he decides to no longer be the chief investor into the club?

Do you guys want to continue the private ownership model (i.e. like EPL clubs) or would you want a membership-owned structure (similar to AFL clubs, Barcelona and relevant automotive associations).

A mix of models (i.e. private owned, but membership voted board) may be available, but I remember asking this question to the Victory fans a while ago and getting a mixed response from them?

Interested to hear what the thoughts were across the Tasman?

Club costs what, $6M p/a to operate. 4000 season ticket holders. You willing to shell out $1500 p/a to keep the club running?

Good topic. We're always cracking on about how well run and supported the Phoenix is, especially compared to some of the other A-League teams, but the whole house of cards is still built upon one man's extreme (some would say insane?) generosity. Hardly the greatest business model in the world (although to be fair, one that many football clubs around the world share with us).

Nobody could, or should, ever blame Terry S if he were to one day decide that he'd had enough but what next?

I don't think privately owned vs member owned is quite the right way to frame this either - let's not forget that private ownership could still involve all sorts of options, including shares being sold to members.

Of course, there's also an argument that says we supporters already "own" a significant stakeholding in the club because we collectively provide its largest (?) revenue stream - around $2m a year in gate receipts.

Anyway, it's still raises some great questions. What options are out there? What are the pros and cons? How much would you be prepared to invest personally to keep the Phoenix going?


terminator_x2009-11-22 11:51:21

Great points raised above Terminator X.

Re Ginger Eejit's above question re $1500  investment each/annum as member/investors.
 I think the actual equation would be totally transformed if the opportunity was there to be a member/ investor.
Who knows how many more would wish to become season ticket holders and investors in the club? There would surely be a lot more than 4000?

I reckon the club is doing well enough that somebody else would buy it if that came to pass.

Umm I doubt it.

Yeah you're having a laugh. 4 grand is a whooole lot more than a hundy season ticket.

Didnt Terry say that one day he wanted the club to be owned by the fans,or somethign to that extent

The real question here then is whether the Phoenix can generate a positive return, or at least be cost neutral.

Melbourne has a mix open ownership, I think. But there are plenty of small fan investors in the mix, including big investors. Its the only way they would get the publicity that they got. However I wonder how the new melbourne team would affect their overall finance?? Will they lose some (switching over) and gain some (new investors) because of the rivalry??

Maybe if he wasn't sure that he's making enough money he should make the club public (share market). I'd buy some shares

Terry S said he is here for the long run.

IBTL

No laughing matter, but all hypothetical, of course.
As Addicks put it, the only way the ability to purchase shares in the WP would come about in the first place would be if a profitable business case or cost nuetral case at the very least can be proposed.

If that happened I think there will be people globally, not just in Wellington, interested in a share of our Wellington Phoenix, if the opportunity ever arose.
If issues like
A- League long term rights renewal,
Eligibility to compete in the AFC,
Youth League team,
and opportunities for increasing revenue could be clarified who knows what might be possible?

So, if the above were to happen, I'm suggesting the actual equation........
4000 season ticket holders or investors    X   $1500each      might be quite different.

If 12,000 or 20,000 potential season ticket holders/investors put their hands up... who knows?

You don't want 20,000 people owning a football team

I agree!! long term investment. Just imagine the spin offs when we make the final this season!!! home final at ROF!! black and yellow out!!

Think most publicly listed companies have lots of owners (shareholders).

Barcelona is always brought up when these fan ownership models are brought up but it's fairly simple when you are an absolute economic powerhouse like they are.  It's a lot easier to decide how to spend money than how to save it

having the players own the club too

Fans
Players
"Corporates"

emphasizing capital over labour has us in a right mess
well past time to right this

Fans and Employees should be stake holders
have elections to the board

why shouldn't Tim Brown, Hard News and seller of beds sit around the table and sort plans for season'11

UNITE COMRADES

It isn't clear to me why capital would give up the advantages it has accrued.

It will be interesting to watch how much the offers wil be to Terry for the All whites players after the World Cup. That will be the payback that Terry deserves for his investment

At this stage Paston doesn't have a contract beyond this season so we'll get nothing.

Don't think Paston will be a big target for European clubs anyway, even if he does have a great World Cup. He'll be 34 next year, few clubs will be tripping over themselves to sign him.

Having said that, we should lock him up soon to ensure he finishes his playing career with us.

A keeper like Paston could play top level for 3-4 more years

How much does it cost to use the stadium p/a? Is it worth buying your own stadium?.

Not saying he can't, but he'll struggle to find clubs in Europe keen to invest in someone his age. Amidst other issues.

There are literally hundreds of clubs in Europe and many of them have keepers of the same age. He deserves a good retirement package. Lets wait and see after the World Cup. There are always new managers of clubs after the world cup tournament who are keen to impress their club owners.

Just as there are hundreds of younger keepers who make for a wiser investment.

But guess we'll see.

Ahhhhh then it just short term vs long term. I think that really, they are two different issues as a club would always have both old and young keepers on their books.

However as in a league, there are winners at the top end of the table and losers at the bottom end of the table. Those on the bottom end of the table are looking quickly for the short term. This is where Paston may have a chance.

Having said that, Keepers tends to peak at a much later age and at the moment Paston is on the start of that peak and so, I think he will have a few calls if he performs at the World Cup well. In fact anyone who performs at the World Cup finals will definitely get a call despite their age.AllWhitebelievr2009-11-25 01:58:25

As a Leeds fan I think it came down more towards greed, just the same as many other clubs that are now screwed financially. 

The salary cap of the A-League is a big helper TBH, keeping wages in check. 

The Football League here in England is seriously looking at this option now after so many clubs going into administration.

Didn't Terry say that he lost $1.5m in year 1 of Phoenix? That was the season where crowd number averaged above 10k per home game. Now, in season 3, home crowd was about 7k per game so far. Is Terry facing $2m loss this season? Look at the GCU where billionaire Clive Palmer had to restrict crowd to 5k in order to save "$140,000 in ground's cost". Now, you start to wonder who is making any profit at all, apart from players.

No profit.

I myself would pay for shares in the club or donate money.
As long as I had something to show for it.

if your wanting something to show for your money then its kinda not a donation is it?

Yeah, thats what I was thinking more of. Something small to show you are an investor or whatever. Key ring or badge.

Maybe for each season an investor could get a badge with the season date on it?

Well you'd get a share certificate...