WPM 2022/23 Squad Speculation, Confirmation and Mutual Termination

Friar Tuck

I’ve got a bad feeling that Uffie will go back to Sydney to take Corica’s role, and that Clayton will go with him.

Lewis's partner Narelle works in the sports media. Sydney is a big city & market to find a similar job for her. As is Melbs - though she'd need to learn to love AFL. And they have spent alot of time separated with her in Auckland, him in Scun-thorpe & then Welly.

Again a bit like Oli & his partner. I'm guessing you likely get a bit sick of those sort of long distance arrangements.

I'm just having a guess with this sort of stuff, and not saying it's the no 1 reason at all Sail & Lewis are going to leave. But it's likely a factor, and been an issue in the past for the Nix, partners not living in or not enjoying Welly. And this family stuff is exactly why Howieson has ruled himself out as a prospective Nix player.

And the position of the Nix is not unlike CCM, who often sign young Sydney kids, only to see them move back to Sydney (maybe via an unsuccessful overseas stint), when they are a bigger name player. That's just where the likes of Nix & CCM sit on the ALM totem pole.

Friar Tuck

lthomas20

Could next season be the season we finally convince Cam Howieson to sign a pro deal at the Nix?

Trying to think what Kiwi CMs will even be available tbh. Obviously there's heaps of depth Aussies, but we tend not to get the best ones and it's always better to have more Kiwis on the team where possible. 

Trevor Zwetsloot is a free agent.

Oli Whyte another offshore Kiwi worth thinking about. Home town Welly boy.  Though he's unsuccessfully trialled previously for Talay/Gill.

Hopefully Noah Karunaratne gets some ALM playing time before season end. But yes can see a visa spot being used next season on trying to find a like for like to replace Lewis.

Chins up. We also have the upcoming U23 matches verus China, plus U20 WC to get a look at NZ's next best young talent. Most of whom already have ties to the Nix. As Talay has said the club are fortunate in that, they have basically NZ's talent pool to themselves. That's one bonus they have over the other 11 clubs.

It'll be a nervous wait now to find out what Rufer and Elliot are doing, interested to see what Boxall and Sasse decide. If we manage to keep both Boxall and Laws we will have a lot of depth in centre-back, though that will be quite tough on Surman. 

Pennington, I honestly don't know what to think.

LG

On the Club site.....

"Three Wellington Phoenix regulars will be moving on at the end of the 2022-23 Isuzu UTE A-League season. First-choice goalkeeper Oli Sail and key midfielders Clayton Lewis and Steven Ugarkovic have informed the Phoenix they won’t be re-signing".

heard on the RNZ that all three were offered extensions and turned them down, which would indicate that money is the key driver for going elsewhere, if it is other aleague clubs then money can be the only driver unless they are going to City or Sydney FC. 

Wusty Wab

It'll be a nervous wait now to find out what Rufer and Elliot are doing, interested to see what Boxall and Sasse decide. If we manage to keep both Boxall and Laws we will have a lot of depth in centre-back, though that will be quite tough on Surman. 

Pennington, I honestly have no idea right now.

Currently, Laws in midfield next season with current squad.

theprof

LG

On the Club site.....

"Three Wellington Phoenix regulars will be moving on at the end of the 2022-23 Isuzu UTE A-League season. First-choice goalkeeper Oli Sail and key midfielders Clayton Lewis and Steven Ugarkovic have informed the Phoenix they won’t be re-signing".

heard on the RNZ that all three were offered extensions and turned them down, which would indicate that money is the key driver for going elsewhere, if it is other aleague clubs then money can be the only driver unless they are going to City or Sydney FC. 

Who knows how far off $$$ our contract offers were, but if (an extreme example to better illustrate my point) a player is offered a contract 10% higher from Southampton than Man City - someone may take the cash, others may take the increased perceived chance of winning something.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/131382411/wellington-phoenix-exodus-oli-sail-clayton-lewis-and-steven-ugarkovic-to-leave-next-season
Gill saying that a bulk of the squad will be staying on for next season, so we will stil have solid nbones to build on! 

Uga is off to Melb City, right? 
( oh it says that in the article linked above, my bad)

So it seems Sail to Perth, Ugarkovic to City and Lewis to MacArthur. After hearing about how MacArthur treated Carter doesn't seem like the best club to be going to but reunited with Davila and obviously on visa wages would be tempting. Hopefully we can keep Elliot tho

wilbaker

So it seems Sail to Perth, Ugarkovic to City and Lewis to MacArthur. After hearing about how MacArthur treated Carter doesn't seem like the best club to be going to but reunited with Davila and obviously on visa wages would be tempting. Hopefully we can keep Elliot tho

If a half decent offer came from a SPL club, I can see Elliot for sure heading to Scotland as has been rumoured. He is the last of Des's 2019 U20 side still in NZ, and he likely feels it's his time to head north as well. More so if Talay is heading out the door.

Good news that 4 of the visa players are locked in for next season. The rebuild will be around what NZ/Aus guys are signed, incl youngsters promoted from the Weenix. 

If Greeny gets the coaching gig (he has the right badges now?), may see a number of  Weenix kids upgraded. If the new gaffer is an Aussie that is currently an ALM assistant or from NPL getting their first ALM head coaching gig (aka Rudan & Talay) you'd think would be more Aussies signed up.

coochiee

wilbaker

So it seems Sail to Perth, Ugarkovic to City and Lewis to MacArthur. After hearing about how MacArthur treated Carter doesn't seem like the best club to be going to but reunited with Davila and obviously on visa wages would be tempting. Hopefully we can keep Elliot tho

If a half decent offer came from a SPL club, I can see Elliot for sure heading to Scotland as has been rumoured. He is the last of Des's 2019 U20 side still in NZ, and he likely feels it's his time to head north as well. More so if Talay is heading out the door.

Good news that 4 of the visa players are locked in for next season. The rebuild will be around what NZ/Aus guys are signed, incl youngsters promoted from the Weenix. 

If Greeny gets the coaching gig (he has the right badges now?), may see a number of  Weenix kids upgraded. If the new gaffer is an Aussie that is currently an ALM assistant or from NPL getting their first ALM head coaching gig (aka Rudan & Talay) you'd think would be more Aussies signed up.

Might be a hot take but I kind of don't like that we have 4 visas signed up if we're getting a new coach. Most of the squad will be inherited from Talay and would leave us with only 1 visa spot to play around with. Wootton I'd be fine with leaving tbh and Ball I've been sort of leaning towards I wouldn't mind leaving as his output has been a lot worse this year and not sure how his body will be in the future but I don't think we'd get rid of Ball anyway and obviously keeping Zawada and Kraev is big.

Ball stated about a year ago a desire to play for the AWs, so presumably he is pursuing his PR/citizenship in NZ. Whenever he gets that aka like Krishna he will just be a local (non visa) player?

If so wonder where that whole process is at. Now doubt slowed down by Covid and the fact he's spent the majority of the last few years out of NZ.

theprof

LG

On the Club site.....

"Three Wellington Phoenix regulars will be moving on at the end of the 2022-23 Isuzu UTE A-League season. First-choice goalkeeper Oli Sail and key midfielders Clayton Lewis and Steven Ugarkovic have informed the Phoenix they won’t be re-signing".

heard on the RNZ that all three were offered extensions and turned them down, which would indicate that money is the key driver for going elsewhere, if it is other aleague clubs then money can be the only driver unless they are going to City or Sydney FC. 

Not really the only driver. The other one would be the manager you're playing under. If Lewis is really going to Macarthur, wtf? Give yourself a shake mate, it ain't it (talking to Lewis here obvs).

coochiee

Ball stated about a year ago a desire to play for the AWs, so presumably he is pursuing his PR/citizenship in NZ. Whenever he gets that aka like Krishna he will just be a local (non visa) player?

If so wonder where that whole process is at. Now doubt slowed down by Covid and the fact he's spent the majority of the last few years out of NZ.

Next season will be his 5th season so under normal circumstances after that season he would've been here for 5 years so could apply for citizenship? But not sure what happens with covid?

EXPIRES END OF 2022/23:
Callan ELLIOT
Joshua LAWS
Clayton LEWIS - Confirmed Leaving
Lucas MAURAGIS [Loan]
Nicolas PENNINGTON
Alex RUFER
Oliver SAIL - Confirmed Leaving
Yan SASSE [V] *
Steven UGARKOVIC - Confirmed Leaving

EXPIRES END OF 2023/24:
Kosta BARBAROUSES
Bozhidar KRAEV [V]
Ben OLD
Alex PAULSEN
Oskar ZAWADA [V]

EXPIRES END OF 2024/25:
Tim PAYNE
Finn SURMAN
Sam SUTTON
Oskar VAN HATTUM
Scott WOOTTON [V]  
David BALL [V] 

* Reportedly has triggers to extend contract by 1 season   

" The owners of the Nix have not really made a wrong step since they bought the team. "

Dario Kalezic.

" That's just where the likes of Nix & CCM sit on the ALM totem pole. "

The Mariners have won a toilet seat. More than one? Haven't looked it up

" heard on the RNZ that all three were offered extensions and turned them down, which would indicate that money is the key driver for going elsewhere, "

Or - just don't like playing for the Wellington Phoenix for other reasons (management, coaching, facilities, living in Wellington)

Winners (2) : 2007–08, 2011–12

Runners-up (2): 2010–11, 2012–13

Winners (1) : 2013

Runners-up (3): 2006, 2008, 2011

Doloras

" The owners of the Nix have not really made a wrong step since they bought the team. "

Dario Kalezic.

" That's just where the likes of Nix & CCM sit on the ALM totem pole. "

The Mariners have won a toilet seat. More than one? Haven't looked it up

" heard on the RNZ that all three were offered extensions and turned them down, which would indicate that money is the key driver for going elsewhere, "

Or - just don't like playing for the Wellington Phoenix for other reasons (management, coaching, facilities, living in Wellington)

YoungHeartHM

God damn, what a way to start a Friday morning. Going to need some serious recruiting to plug that Lewis sized gap in midfield. Will be annoyed if he ends up in Aussie, but that sounds like the destination already.

Expected Ugarkovic to go as well, so no surprises on that front.


Sigh 😔

I mean I kind of expected this, with Uffie expect to go, but I was hoping to have a very real prospect of silverware to console myself with…

I don't think Uffie is staying tbh. Why would your key players move to other clubs in the same league for "better" opportunities if your coach would stay?

Lewis to MacArthur? Clayton mate give yourself an uppercut! MacArthur shouldn’t even be in the league tbh. 
Maybe he’s thinking he needs a payday as his knees aren’t great?

 Or Uffie’s missed out on the Sydney job and having failed to win anything with us (bar a minor miracle that has proved beyond him in previous seasons m) is hoping that Uli and Clayton can propel him to a premiership and an overseas career? To answer Doloras maybe the attraction is the manager and players have come to Welly for Uffie and prior to that for Ernie.

It sucks to think we don’t get any return on investment in Sail or Lewis. 
Urgarkovic imo has been a failure. If he’d done the job he’d been brought in to do we’d be second. Hasn’t been able to adjust and deputise for Clayton which is what we needed from him. 

Anyway, in order to help my cognitive dissonance I’m going to forget this until the end of the season as I still believe we’re going to win the league! 

Doloras

" The owners of the Nix have not really made a wrong step since they bought the team. "

Dario Kalezic.

" That's just where the likes of Nix & CCM sit on the ALM totem pole. "

The Mariners have won a toilet seat. More than one? Haven't looked it up

" heard on the RNZ that all three were offered extensions and turned them down, which would indicate that money is the key driver for going elsewhere, "

Or - just don't like playing for the Wellington Phoenix for other reasons (management, coaching, facilities, living in Wellington)

wont be the facilities, they've all been seen raving about the new facilities and how good they are.
management is also raved about - especially by the likes of Sail.
So that leaves money or living in Wellington (something the club can't change)

Mariners won the toilet seat 10 years ago in 12/13 season. Losing finalists 3 times prior. Back then in the early days it really was a salary capped league.

CCM haven't been close since. Definitely a comparable outfit to the Nix.

Maybe they want the chance to play in the Asian Champions League rather than no chance in hell whilst NZF languishes in Oceania.

Same or better money, better weather, better city/lifestyle, a chance for ACL - it really is a no-brainer for these guys to leave.

I say good luck to them.

Having Gill as DOF, will improve the whole player negotiation/signing process even if Talay leaves - compared to seasons past when there was a change of coach.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/131382411/wellington-phoenix-exodus-oli-sail-clayton-lewis-and-steven-ugarkovic-to-leave-next-season

The departures come at a time when the coach’s future remains unclear. Talay is also off-contract and he recently missed out on the All Whites job, seen by the Phoenix as a carrot to keep him in the country.

“Discussions are ongoing with Ufuk at the moment,” Gill said. “There’s been discussions in the past few weeks and there’s discussions to come in the next few weeks.

“At some point that will become clearer and when we know what is happening we will be in a position to make some comments. We just have to wait and see how things pan out.”

Talay was coy when pressed about his plans, only saying he “can’t predict the future” and that he had had “good chats” with chairman Rob Morrison in recent weeks. However, neither he nor Gill felt the uncertainty surrounding the future of the coach had been a “major factor” in the three players’ decision to leave.
“Some players will use that as an excuse or something they’re considering but in the A-League there’s a lot of uncertainty around coaches and what is going to happen and ultimately I think players make decisions on what is best for them and their career, financially or otherwise,” Gill said.

“Now that we have a director of football role it’s not all solely on the coach who we sign and how we sign, there’s a process we go through and there’s a group of people involved in that decision-making process. The coach is obviously a big part of that but he’s not the only part.”

Gill said the retention of their other off-contract players, including captain Alex Rufer and stand-out right-back Callan Elliot, were top priority and that some of those discussions had been progressing “pretty well.”

Imports Oskar Zawada, Bozhidar Kraev, David Ball and Scott Wootton are locked into multi-year deals.

“There are a couple of players we are still in negotiations with at the moment and to be honest I think those decisions are pretty positive.”

The Phoenix took the rare step of confirming the end-of-season exits in an attempt to quash ongoing speculation after rumours of Sail’s move to the Glory emerged on social media.

“We thought off the back of what has come out on the Twittersphere that it was the right time to put a line through those three players.”

Nixieboys222

• A-League Men Premiership

Winners (2) : 2007–08, 2011–12

Runners-up (2): 2010–11, 2012–13

• A-League Men Championship

Winners (1) : 2013

Runners-up (3): 2006, 2008, 2011

• Australia Cup
  • Runners-up (1): 2021
• A-League Pre-Season Challenge Cup
  • Winners (1): 2005
  • Runners-up (1): 2006

Doloras

" The owners of the Nix have not really made a wrong step since they bought the team. "

Dario Kalezic.

" That's just where the likes of Nix & CCM sit on the ALM totem pole. "

The Mariners have won a toilet seat. More than one? Haven't looked it up

" heard on the RNZ that all three were offered extensions and turned them down, which would indicate that money is the key driver for going elsewhere, "

Or - just don't like playing for the Wellington Phoenix for other reasons (management, coaching, facilities, living in Wellington)

CCM kind of benefited from being the only other club near Sydney in the beginning of the AL (there were restrictions on expanding in Sydney and Melbourne for the first few years of the AL)

" So that leaves money or living in Wellington (something the club can't change) "

I saw some Aussie on the formerly 442 forums talking about how the Nix could never win a championship because the best players won't come here due to "the cold". Well - the way things are going, parts of Australia are going to be literally uninhabitable during the summer, so who knows, maybe the climate will be a positive for us down the road. 

That said, I'm still skeptical that Perth or Macarthur can somehow offer significant sums more than we can. I really think the answer lies in players feeling that the Nix simply have no prospects for silverware - which may be due to persistent ref bias against us, come to think of it, if there really is no problem with coaching, management or facilities.

Perth have been offering significant funds for some time over the years. Andy Keogh springs to mind. They bought up before this season. I wonder where their money was coming from.

Davila basically doubled his salary moving to the Bulls. Nix's counter offer from memory wasn't even in the same ballpark.

Don't be fooled by their mostly piss poor crowds. Macarthur ain't short of cash.

Losing Lewis is a huge blow but he obviously thinks another option is better for him & his partner. 

Lets just go poach Josh Nisbet as a replacement.

Great opportunity to get better players.

The Australian players that are coming off their contract that I'd like to replace Lewis would be Thurgate or De Silva.

Like Narelle doesn't know here Clayton is going!

Tweet

A massive blow for the Nix, with all three set to join other A-League clubs, according to @ByPhillipRollo.

Sail and Ugarkovic will certainly be hard to replace, but Clayton Lewis’ departure in particular would leave a giant whole in the heart of this Wellington team. https://t.co/7bF385xWId

— Petar Petrov (@PPetrov_FR) March 2, 2023

Hopefully Alex Paulsen gets a chance as the number 1.

Doloras

Bullion

Rollo is saying all three off to other A League clubs

We have to do some serious thinking about why the Nix continues to be so unattractive that our talent leaves us for other A-League clubs. 

its because other teams will pay more than us. simple as that.

As far as your other comments go, I don't understand why you support a Wellington football team if you hate Wellington. It makes no sense to me.

Shaun Gill's presser about the departures.

Words fail me

RR

Shaun Gill's presser about the departures.

Makes sense. Offered them the best deal we could afford, other teams offered more. As Ufuk said, players careers are short, they have to make the most money then can while they can.

Ryan

Doloras

Bullion

Rollo is saying all three off to other A League clubs

We have to do some serious thinking about why the Nix continues to be so unattractive that our talent leaves us for other A-League clubs. 

its because other teams will pay more than us. simple as that.

As far as your other comments go, I don't understand why you support a Wellington football team if you hate Wellington. It makes no sense to me.

Money is a potential factor that cannot be excluded or discounted. I do not see  any evidence of "hating Wellington" here. We support the club regardless of whether it can match these offers or not; sometimes it doesn't, the players move on, but we remain here to support it.

Mainland FC

Ryan

Doloras

Bullion

Rollo is saying all three off to other A League clubs

We have to do some serious thinking about why the Nix continues to be so unattractive that our talent leaves us for other A-League clubs. 

its because other teams will pay more than us. simple as that.

As far as your other comments go, I don't understand why you support a Wellington football team if you hate Wellington. It makes no sense to me.

Money is a potential factor that cannot be excluded or discounted. I do not see  any evidence of "hating Wellington" here. We support the club regardless of whether it can match these offers or not; sometimes it doesn't, the players move on, but we remain here to support it.

doloras is always talking crap without any evidence to back it up. It's a pattern of behaviour

Rumour is Lewis has signed with Macarthur. So uffie going to link back up with davilla there.