WPM 2023/24 Squad Speculation, Confirmation and Mutual Termination

kloppman

I watched Trevor Zwetsloot last night in a cup game for the US open cup. He plays for a USL team, the Pittsburg  riverhounds. They played the number 1 team in the MLS, New England  Revolution.  This kid is so good. He started the last 2 games in the USL league and came on in the last half hour to secure the win. The riverhounds won the game 1-0 and are through to the round of 16.
This kid is a real ball winner and great player, hard as nails. He should play for NZ.

Considering some of the names he’s been attached to, he’s had good representation! 

Think he’s certainly known to a few on here. I did wonder that Friar Tuck thought that Pijnaker or Adams would necessarily be better than Payne. Or Surman for that matter.  

The other question being if he’s stateside why would the Nix be attractive? 

Can he tackle Matthew Leckie? 
I’m trying to think of a Nix index of tough/hard man players of late. Though they’ve gone out of fashion in the league overall. And sometimes it’s difficult to separate the aggression from the genuinely hard tackling or physically dominant - the Dion Nash pacer type thing. 

Rufer/(Payne)/Zawada (?)/Devlin/Sotirio/Taylor/Manny/Sigmund/McKain/Karl Dodd

Supppose I should add Cacace and Brown to that list. 

That kind of bravado got a little less popular after Riera who rarely lost out in a tackle, but wasn’t particularly macho or personal about it. 

Zwetsloot? Significantly better than we’ve got? Wants to come back? 

Don’t think we’ve signed anyone (outside Nikko) direct from the USL before, though the drums beat for Musa to return and we should probably investigate Wynne too. It’d be nice to have a Mauragis who’ll stay with us the following season- in the Manny Muscat type zone…

martinb

coochiee

wilbaker

coochiee

manny_delgato

imanixsupporter

Names thrown around on the kiwi football fix tonight: Francis De Vries, Niko Kirwan, Nathan Lobo, Marco Rojas, Jack Henry-Sinclair, Cam Howieson, Stefan Marinovic. I'd be stoked with Marinovic, Kirwan and Rojas. Don't watch enough national league to make a call on those local guys. De Vries looked a little shaky when I saw him for the all whites before he did his knee, don't see him as an upgrade on Sutton, while I think Kirwan looked the business for the national team and I'd love for Payne to be banished to the bench. Hasn't been good enough in the past season, a couple years back he looked more than good enough for a starting RB in the a-league but don't know where that player went. 

I watched Auckland City FC a couple times this year and last. Cam Howieson absolutely bosses every game he plays. Obviously it's hard to know if that translates to good performances at the level of the A-league. But domestically, every time he plays he looks a good head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. I'd be stoked if Wellington went for him. But it's a big jump to the a league ...

With Howieson.
He. Doesn't. Want. To. Live. In. Wellington.

Actually he explained it briefly last year that he can't move south, without divulging anything more. Family. Business. Who knows. But he ain't a Nix option.

May of changed in the last year? He's lived in Wellington before albeit a while ago and maybe that's why he doesn't want to move from his previous time here. 

When we approached him last year he would've been joining fairly down the pecking order so would've been a rotation role whereas now he'd be looking at probably a starter so an increase in wages and more appearances bonus likely with a new offer may be more tempting for him. Although I wouldn't want us to be paying way over for what he's worth just to come down.

I don't think the Nix approached him, it was just his name was being bandied about here as he returned to the AWs last year for that March OFC tourney (maybe even earlier for the January Jordan/Uzbekistan friendlies). At the time the Nix were seriously seriously down on midfield options. Lewis & Rufer both injured. Guys like Sutton getting chucked in at midfield. If Howieson played for the Nix then, he would have been straight into the starting 11.

I remember Goran P interviewed Howieson around that time, and though he was a bit flattered by the attention, there had been no contact from the Nix (they were still stuck in Aussie then), and he just said it wasn't possible for him to leave Auckland (even short term for Aussie), without elaborating. He ain't an option.

Like something preventing him getting an Aussie visa? Though others have said family business etc. 

New Zealanders don't need a visa for Australia. It has to be personal reasons and that's his business and also fair enough.

martinb

kloppman

I watched Trevor Zwetsloot last night in a cup game for the US open cup. He plays for a USL team, the Pittsburg  riverhounds. They played the number 1 team in the MLS, New England  Revolution.  This kid is so good. He started the last 2 games in the USL league and came on in the last half hour to secure the win. The riverhounds won the game 1-0 and are through to the round of 16.
This kid is a real ball winner and great player, hard as nails. He should play for NZ.

Considering some of the names he’s been attached to, he’s had good representation! 

Think he’s certainly known to a few on here. I did wonder that Friar Tuck thought that Pijnaker or Adams would necessarily be better than Payne. Or Surman for that matter.  

The other question being if he’s stateside why would the Nix be attractive? 

Can he tackle Matthew Leckie? 
I’m trying to think of a Nix index of tough/hard man players of late. Though they’ve gone out of fashion in the league overall. And sometimes it’s difficult to separate the aggression from the genuinely hard tackling or physically dominant - the Dion Nash pacer type thing. 

Rufer/(Payne)/Zawada (?)/Devlin/Sotirio/Taylor/Manny/Sigmund/McKain/Karl Dodd

Supppose I should add Cacace and Brown to that list. 

That kind of bravado got a little less popular after Riera who rarely lost out in a tackle, but wasn’t particularly macho or personal about it. 

Zwetsloot? Significantly better than we’ve got? Wants to come back? 

Don’t think we’ve signed anyone (outside Nikko) direct from the USL before, though the drums beat for Musa to return and we should probably investigate Wynne too. It’d be nice to have a Mauragis who’ll stay with us the following season- in the Manny Muscat type zone…

Big thing with Pijnaker and Adams is that they’re both left footed. Pijnaker is 100% better than Payne and has a lot more upside, as evidenced by their performances for the All Whites. Adams is a toss up and Payne could well be better but worth a shot.

Ryan

Doloras

WhoStoleMySock

Doloras

So: everyone was bitterly disappointed with the failure of this season; and next season we're just going to play the kids. Wooden spoon beckons. It sucks following this club.

You're believing a poster with 16 posts?

You're right that it's not really a reliable source in and of itself; but it's an opinion that I didn't need that guy's input to come to. The club didn't even try to keep Callan Elliot. This is not a club which intends to make anything happen next season.

Yeah, but you have that opinion every year :)

AND AM I RIGHT OR AM I WRONG?!? :D

imanixsupporter

Callan thought he was too good for the nix when he left the last time and went to Europe and regressed terribly. I don't think he has made it back to the level he was at when he left last time, he was like a right sided Libby in the last couple months of that season. I'm not at all upset he's leaving, particularly as it sounds like he was trying to extract every last dollar out of the Nix. He should have learned by now that it is critical early in your career to be playing regularly and developing, and once you've made it, you can then name your price and you will always have options. He needs better management/advisors. Good luck to him but I doubt he will be the player he could have been

I know that people say that promising players quit because of the money first and foremost, but surely the feeling of "being too good for the Nix" (i.e. our club has the reputation of being a second-choice provincial backwater) is extremely common too.

Jazzy Jeff

rua_taniwha

They don’t offer a contract to Sasse but keep Wooten. It was our defence that sucked not the attack. 

Also the fact they signed Rufer on such a long contract is now looking like bad business for the same reason

It's insane to me that I still regularly see people wanting Rufer not only out of the starting XI, but out of the club entirely. Feels like way too many in our fan base don't really understand what a 6 and/or 8 does, they've consistently been the scapegoats of our squads for years.

Rufer is a really solid A-League midfielder, local boy and loyal as hell. Of course we fudgeing keep him

I just realised: Rufer plays Tim Brown's old position. And that guy was scapegoated, accused of doing nothing etc. too :D

Doloras

imanixsupporter

Callan thought he was too good for the nix when he left the last time and went to Europe and regressed terribly. I don't think he has made it back to the level he was at when he left last time, he was like a right sided Libby in the last couple months of that season. I'm not at all upset he's leaving, particularly as it sounds like he was trying to extract every last dollar out of the Nix. He should have learned by now that it is critical early in your career to be playing regularly and developing, and once you've made it, you can then name your price and you will always have options. He needs better management/advisors. Good luck to him but I doubt he will be the player he could have been

I know that people say that promising players quit because of the money first and foremost, but surely the feeling of "being too good for the Nix" (i.e. our club has the reputation of being a second-choice provincial backwater) is extremely common too.

Right or wrong (a broken clock is right twice a day) - it's still bloody annoying and largely unnecessary to repeat yourself every season.

coochiee

manny_delgato

imanixsupporter

Names thrown around on the kiwi football fix tonight: Francis De Vries, Niko Kirwan, Nathan Lobo, Marco Rojas, Jack Henry-Sinclair, Cam Howieson, Stefan Marinovic. I'd be stoked with Marinovic, Kirwan and Rojas. Don't watch enough national league to make a call on those local guys. De Vries looked a little shaky when I saw him for the all whites before he did his knee, don't see him as an upgrade on Sutton, while I think Kirwan looked the business for the national team and I'd love for Payne to be banished to the bench. Hasn't been good enough in the past season, a couple years back he looked more than good enough for a starting RB in the a-league but don't know where that player went. 

I watched Auckland City FC a couple times this year and last. Cam Howieson absolutely bosses every game he plays. Obviously it's hard to know if that translates to good performances at the level of the A-league. But domestically, every time he plays he looks a good head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. I'd be stoked if Wellington went for him. But it's a big jump to the a league ...

With Howieson.
He. Doesn't. Want. To. Live. In. Wellington.

Actually he explained it briefly last year that he can't move south, without divulging anything more. Family. Business. Who knows. But he ain't a Nix option.

He did something in a Courtney Place nightclub once and there's an organized crime hit on him :D

be careful comparing USL players with A-League players

the top standard of players in the A-League is much much higher than the USL. in the A-League, we get Magaurus vs Layouni and Elliott vs Leckie and Goodwin. 

we then judge Magaurus and Elliott on their performances against top class players. they'd be quite comfortable in the USL

New signing incoming 

👀

— Wellington Phoenix 🔥 (@WgtnPhoenixFC) May 11, 2023

🆕📝🔜

— Wellington Phoenix 🔥 (@WgtnPhoenixFC) May 11, 2023

They better not build this up and then just announce Al Taay or Pennington

anaveragestem

They better not build this up and then just announce Al Taay or Pennington

I think it will be Al Taay. It's not like they've made some hype video or something. Nice to see us doing some business early though

https://wellingtonphoenix.com/news/men-make-first-off-season-signing
It is Al Taay

Mo Altaay is our new signing. I'm not disappointed with this as some are 

He strikes me as the type of player we need to strengthen the midfield - a Devlin type lad, young, strong and keen to get into it.

Out: Talay
In: Al Taay

I think Chiefy has known him for a while, going back to his Blacktown days. Could be a shrewd pick up if they've already worked together and they have a good understanding of each other 

Screenshot_2023-05-11-13-15-34-678_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg 165.52 KB

Young, and on a two year deal. I like this a lot

Good signing. Young, hungry and Chiefy knows and trusts him. I don’t expect him to start yet but he should be great value off the bench.

Expires 2023/24
Alex Paulsen
Bozhidar Kraev (V)
Ben Old
Kosta Barbarouses
Oskar Zawada (V)

Expires 2024/25
Tim Payne
Scott Wootton (V)
Finn Surman
Sam Sutton
Oskar Van Hattum
David Ball (V)
Mohamed Al-Taay

Expires 2025/26
Alex Rufer 

Didn't notice it posted elsewhere, but Gilly said in an interview with Newshub(?) yesterday that they want to give Paulsen first shot at the #1 keeper position so will likely sign someone of simialr quality to provide competition. Gonna say that would rule out Woud, Marinovic etc.

Fvzz3B-aMAMttvQ.jpg 170.33 KB

Let's hope this isn't because of the Paolo Maldini rule. 

2ndBest

Fvzz3B-aMAMttvQ.jpg 170.33 KB

Let's hope this isn't because of the Paolo Maldini rule. 

Who’s that?

2ndBest

Didn't notice it posted elsewhere, but Gilly said in an interview with Newshub(?) yesterday that they want to give Paulsen first shot at the #1 keeper position so will likely sign someone of simialr quality to provide competition. Gonna say that would rule out Woud, Marinovic etc.

Would definitely rule out Marinovic. But Woud? Given where his career is at, and being only a few years older than Paulsen I wouldn’t rule him out, if Kyoto released him on a free.
 
Certainly AP needs someone else young to push him, no free ride.

Can't wait to see what Al-Taay brings, as someone mentioned above, it's good to see a new signing so early into the off-season.

Doloras

Jazzy Jeff

rua_taniwha

They don’t offer a contract to Sasse but keep Wooten. It was our defence that sucked not the attack. 

Also the fact they signed Rufer on such a long contract is now looking like bad business for the same reason

It's insane to me that I still regularly see people wanting Rufer not only out of the starting XI, but out of the club entirely. Feels like way too many in our fan base don't really understand what a 6 and/or 8 does, they've consistently been the scapegoats of our squads for years.

Rufer is a really solid A-League midfielder, local boy and loyal as hell. Of course we fudgeing keep him

I just realised: Rufer plays Tim Brown's old position. And that guy was scapegoated, accused of doing nothing etc. too :D

Similar but not quite the same. Brown's best form was when he had Lia and Muscat behind him in midfield allowing him to get into the box to try and get onto crosses. IMO Rufer is a better footballer

"i used to coach him" signings can be hit and miss

"i used to coach him, three years ago, at a much lower level, and he's done nothing since" signings should logically be much more miss than hit. 

contrast this with the uffie/devlin signing, which was more like "i coached him last season, i cannot believe he's not playing first team football, at one of the league's strongest clubs"

martinb

2ndBest

Fvzz3B-aMAMttvQ.jpg 170.33 KB

Let's hope this isn't because of the Paolo Maldini rule. 

Who’s that?

Quoting from google here.

Paolo Maldini was a legendary Italian football player, a defender who – at least at club level – won pretty much everything in the game. When asked about his approach to defending, he famously responded: “If I have to make a tackle, I have already made a mistake”.

Essentially he was just saying that he hopes Al Taay isn't making all these tackles because he is fudgeing up a lot and therefore needs to tackle a lot

anaveragestem

martinb

2ndBest

Fvzz3B-aMAMttvQ.jpg 170.33 KB

Let's hope this isn't because of the Paolo Maldini rule. 

Who’s that?

Quoting from google here.

Paolo Maldini was a legendary Italian football player, a defender who – at least at club level – won pretty much everything in the game. When asked about his approach to defending, he famously responded: “If I have to make a tackle, I have already made a mistake”.

Essentially he was just saying that he hopes Al Taay isn't making all these tackles because he is fudgeing up a lot and therefore needs to tackle a lot

For those who don't know the reference: https://youtu.be/Lr4QmvB0w6k?t=65

WhoStoleMySock

Out: Talay
In: Al Taay

https://t.co/9qqlNQmBlT pic.twitter.com/TXM9MVvRNU

— NND (@NoNonsenseDef) May 11, 2023

I'm underwhelmed by what I saw of Al-Taay at the Jets but DMs don't always stand out on TV, so I'll trust Chiefy on this. Hat tip to @newyjetsfanews for spotting the insta follows are telling me.

Chiefy moving away from 4-2-2-2 formation

Bullion

Doloras

Jazzy Jeff

rua_taniwha

They don’t offer a contract to Sasse but keep Wooten. It was our defence that sucked not the attack. 

Also the fact they signed Rufer on such a long contract is now looking like bad business for the same reason

It's insane to me that I still regularly see people wanting Rufer not only out of the starting XI, but out of the club entirely. Feels like way too many in our fan base don't really understand what a 6 and/or 8 does, they've consistently been the scapegoats of our squads for years.

Rufer is a really solid A-League midfielder, local boy and loyal as hell. Of course we fudgeing keep him

I just realised: Rufer plays Tim Brown's old position. And that guy was scapegoated, accused of doing nothing etc. too :D

Similar but not quite the same. Brown's best form was when he had Lia and Muscat behind him in midfield allowing him to get into the box to try and get onto crosses. IMO Rufer is a better footballer

Brown had plenty of late goals in him- and perhaps a bit of luck! Brown was definitely a box to box midfielder and to be honest I’d love to see Rufer driving forward more too. 

NZPhoenixFan

Chiefy moving away from 4-2-2-2 formation

What makes you think that? 

JUSTSAYING

NZPhoenixFan

Chiefy moving away from 4-2-2-2 formation

What makes you think that? 

Updated with Giancarlo Italiano confirming a move away from Ufuk Talay’s 4-2-2-2. https://t.co/xNfjxJRFZS

— Phillip Rollo (@ByPhillipRollo) May 11, 2023

Happy with him moving from that formation felt a little stale and I don't think we've had the players to play it last couple of seasons. I'm expecting a 4-2-3-1 or maybe a 3 ATB/5 ATB with us signing another import CB.

Chiefy's Twitter handle says he is a 'Bielsa Disciple'.

Piscopo, Sotiro & Mcgarry obviously think Al-Taay has Devlin like qualities.
Scrappy Doo II.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/132011000/wellington-phoenix-begin-rebuild-with-signing-of-midfielder-mohamed-altaay

Ufuk Talay religiously lined his team up in a 4-2-2-2 system, but Italiano said the addition of Al-Taay would allow him to play a slightly different system to his former mentor.

“I probably won’t go into that [the formation] but there will be changes in our set-up. Whether we play two No. 6s is a question I’ll answer later but there will be definite changes in our starting point,” Italiano said.

“It will suit the players more of what I have available. Not a back five, not a back three. You’ll see.

“I’ve really put a lot of thought into the system and the best attributes of the players. It’s taken me a bit of time where I’m comfortable but when you see how we start next year it will make a bit more sense.”

“He’s a very hard-working defensive midfielder and a little bit in the mould of a young Cammy Devlin when he came here four years ago.

“I’m hoping he follows that path. He has the same expectations as Cammy did from day one. It wasn’t the same as now because he’s in Scotland but I think he has the potential to grow into that role.”

It is not the first time Al-Taay has been compared to the now Socceroos midfielder.

“A couple of the Jets boys that were at Wellington made that comparison too,” Al-Taay said.

RR

WhoStoleMySock

Out: Talay
In: Al Taay

https://t.co/9qqlNQmBlT pic.twitter.com/TXM9MVvRNU

— NND (@NoNonsenseDef) May 11, 2023

Damn, I thought I was being original, but clearly someone got ahead of me 😆

coochiee

Chiefy's Twitter handle says he is a 'Bielsa Disciple'.

At Leeds, Bielsa played a 4 1 4 1 model.  I can see that working for us.  Oskar Zwada is big enough and strong enough to play the high line of this model. 

He is also widely credited to have invented 3 3 3 1.  I have never seen that in operation.  Be fascinated to see how that works.

No matter what his formation, Bielsa's big thing is an up tempo run run run.  He demands players hunt the ball when not in possession with a high press no matter where the ball is.  I can see a role for David Ball in a system like that.  Provided he improves his tackle timing and reduce his yellow card rate.  it will also need a high level of fitness for everyone.  

Anyone keen for Round 2 of the Sherminator? Five players off contract at Brisbane, including one guy going back to his parent club in Poland
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