Anyone keen for Round 2 of the Sherminator? Five players off contract at Brisbane, including one guy going back to his parent club in Poland LINK
- Josh Brindell-South - Joe Knowles - Marcel Canadi - Robbie Kruse - Jordan Courtney-Perkins
Jordan Courtney-Perkins would be a great signing but hes the one going back to Poland so unless another loan deal (which Brisbane would be favorites) or they mutually consent to let him leave probs unlikely we could get him.
Happy with him moving from that formation felt a little stale and I don't think we've had the players to play it last couple of seasons. I'm expecting a 4-2-3-1 or maybe a 3 ATB/5 ATB with us signing another import CB.
I'm thinking that it could be a back 4 without the ball and a back 3 with the ball (R-L, Payne, Wooton, new CB) and Sutts to play more narrow. Width provided more by wingers than FBs.
Chiefy's Twitter handle says he is a 'Bielsa Disciple'.
At Leeds, Bielsa played a 4 1 4 1 model. I can see that working for us. Oskar Zwada is big enough and strong enough to play the high line of this model.
He is also widely credited to have invented 3 3 3 1. I have never seen that in operation. Be fascinated to see how that works.
No matter what his formation, Bielsa's big thing is an up tempo run run run. He demands players hunt the ball when not in possession with a high press no matter where the ball is. I can see a role for David Ball in a system like that. Provided he improves his tackle timing and reduce his yellow card rate. it will also need a high level of fitness for everyone.
It can be described as a 3-1-3-3, a 3-3-1-3, or a 3-3-3-1! Sounds crazy but it isn't as complicated as it seems. Basically out of posession it is a 5-2-3 formation. In possession the positions (particularly the wingbacks and centremid) swap positions a lot to create his weird structure.
When the players have the ball: 1) The striker pushes up as far as he can to create space between the mids and the striker 2) One of the mids is expected to move forwards into a CAM position to take up the space that is created 3) The two wingbacks are expected to rotate between being a wingback and a midfielder.
As the ball moves up the pitch, it creates:
a) a 3-3-1-3 when the ball is being progressed up the pitch (the 3 at the back are the centre backs, the 3 in the mid are the two wingbacks plus a mid, then a mid playing as a CAM, then front three). This can be described as a 3-3-3-1 depending on how high up the pitch the striker is managing to pull the defending line. The idea is that, theoretically, if you build up this way you can stretch the pitch with width, and will always have overloads down the back (3 centrebacks + goalie vs two/three strikers; three mids + CAM vs two/three mids) as you progress the ball.
b) a 3-1-3-3 once the ball has progressed up the pitch (where one mid sits as a DM in front of the centrebacks, and the other six players all try to aggressively press to keep the ball from leaving the opposition half). Biesla loves his pressing so this is really just designed to enable that. It also, theoretically, creates overloads, as you can have double-ups on the edges of the box (winger+wingback creating space for each other). The system is super reliant on having a good DM though - if the press is played through the DM is the difference between recycling the ball and giving away a counterattack.
I have no idea if Chiefy is going to do this but would be interesting to see him try.
Oh also worth noting that the formation doesn't have to start as a 5-2-3 - most of the time Bielsa uses this as the out of possession shape, but he's also used a 4-1-4-1, a 4-2-3-1, etc. Principles are the same no matter the passive formation though.
Where's that clown who said with absolute conviction and sweet fudge all to base it on that nothing would change under Chiefy. Think it was that AdidasBloke user. There's your change
Didn't notice it posted elsewhere, but Gilly said in an interview with Newshub(?) yesterday that they want to give Paulsen first shot at the #1 keeper position so will likely sign someone of simialr quality to provide competition. Gonna say that would rule out Woud, Marinovic etc.
I can see the 4-1-4-1 formation working quite well with the players we have. I think moving Ball into CM is the way to go.
With the players we've got atm the 3 positions that we'd still need to target for more first-team players rather than squad/rotation roles would be a winger/st type player, a b2b/attacking cm, and a RB. These guys probs won't be the ones we choose but can't help but think a MacArthur raid of these 3 would actually perfectly cover those 3 positions.lineup (48).png130.53 KB
Where's that clown who said with absolute conviction and sweet fudge all to base it on that nothing would change under Chiefy. Think it was that AdidasBloke user. There's your change
Also the person who said Chief wouldn't be able to sign Australian players because Ufuk has the relationship with them and the respect, not Chief.
Mo pretty much said he pushed back other A-League contracts specifically because he wanted to work with Chief.
Personally I am quite interested in the possibility of Ball playing at CM as it will allow him to "age gracefully" and rely more on his skills and vision, and less on his box to box running. He has the suitable physicality and speed, and of late has not been able to get into the scoring positions well (I mean overall, I am not focusing on his 2-3 times when he hit the post - that was most likely a one-off fluke). He is highly committed to the club and that heart counts for a lot if it can be translated into directing overall play more than he has been able to to date.
Another question looking at some of those classy football goals we scored early on (despite the involvement of Kosta) was the involvement of Ben Old.
Getting him back at somewhere near peak capacity would be like a new signing. Any news?
Sounds the same sort of groin issue (osteo pubis?) that Singh had. Rest is the only real cure. For Singh was about 6-9 mths. So hopefully Old should be almost ready to go by October.
Careful there. If we go on like this, we are not gonna fulfill the daily doom gloom and misery quota. What's this forum turning into, a happy hour?
Oskar Van Hattum is contracted through to 2025. Doom, gloom and misery back.
Maybe he’ll have another good pre-season and Chief will find a role that suits him better and he’ll find his touch.
It’s a well known fact in football (thanks Desmond Morris) that you’re more likely to pass to your mates- Sutton and Waine an obvious example of that kind of combination. Maybe he’ll make a few in the squad!
We’ve seen a lot of players like Krishna take a while to adjust to the level and other players like McCowatt who did good things in various positions, but never quite established himself or found the right position.
Worst case scenario we’ve got a kiwi squadie, who is fit and knows the team. We do need squad players. Not all that bad really surely?
Careful there. If we go on like this, we are not gonna fulfill the daily doom gloom and misery quota. What's this forum turning into, a happy hour?
Oskar Van Hattum is contracted through to 2025. Doom, gloom and misery back.
Maybe he’ll have another good pre-season and Chief will find a role that suits him better and he’ll find his touch.
It’s a well known fact in football (thanks Desmond Morris) that you’re more likely to pass to your mates- Sutton and Waine an obvious example of that kind of combination. Maybe he’ll make a few in the squad!
We’ve seen a lot of players like Krishna take a while to adjust to the level and other players like McCowatt who did good things in various positions, but never quite established himself or found the right position.
Worst case scenario we’ve got a kiwi squadie, who is fit and knows the team. We do need squad players. Not all that bad really surely?
Squad players need to add to the team though, OVH needs to be getting 3 or 4 goals off the bench next season.
That’d make him Piscopo or Sotirio valuable! Unless that’s all competitions, with 2-3 in the cup. That’s more than Ball or Kosta (or about Waine or Sasse for that matter) added this season with their starting positions.
That’d make him Piscopo or Sotirio valuable! Unless that’s all competitions, with 2-3 in the cup. That’s more than Ball or Kosta (or about Waine or Sasse for that matter) added this season with their starting positions.
He's an out and out striker though whereas Ball or Kosta are secondary strikers. So, more comparison with Waine than them.
That’d make him Piscopo or Sotirio valuable! Unless that’s all competitions, with 2-3 in the cup. That’s more than Ball or Kosta (or about Waine or Sasse for that matter) added this season with their starting positions.
He's an out and out striker though whereas Ball or Kosta are secondary strikers. So, more comparison with Waine than them.
It is hard to say if OVH is up to A-League level yet. He has made 20 appearances but only played 245 minutes (13 mins in 4 wins, 54 mins in 3 draws, 178 mins in 13 losses). Uffie would sub him on when we are playing rubbish & just throwing the kitchen sink at teams. He hasn't really been put in a position to show what he can do. However I haven't seen any glimpses of talent like Waine showed early.
Waine played 337 mins in his first 20 games, scoring that tap in vs City. His minutes are boosted by Rudan throwing that R27 game vs the Glory, where Waine got 90 mins in his 3rd appearance.
Yeah, wasn't a comment on his ability per se or anything about the minutes that he's been played before, but more what we should expect from a bench striker who comes on late in the games and more importantly what he should expect from himself.
Chiefy's Twitter handle says he is a 'Bielsa Disciple'.
At Leeds, Bielsa played a 4 1 4 1 model. I can see that working for us. Oskar Zwada is big enough and strong enough to play the high line of this model.
He is also widely credited to have invented 3 3 3 1. I have never seen that in operation. Be fascinated to see how that works.
No matter what his formation, Bielsa's big thing is an up tempo run run run. He demands players hunt the ball when not in possession with a high press no matter where the ball is. I can see a role for David Ball in a system like that. Provided he improves his tackle timing and reduce his yellow card rate. it will also need a high level of fitness for everyone.
It can be described as a 3-1-3-3, a 3-3-1-3, or a 3-3-3-1! Sounds crazy but it isn't as complicated as it seems. Basically out of posession it is a 5-2-3 formation. In possession the positions (particularly the wingbacks and centremid) swap positions a lot to create his weird structure.
When the players have the ball: 1) The striker pushes up as far as he can to create space between the mids and the striker 2) One of the mids is expected to move forwards into a CAM position to take up the space that is created 3) The two wingbacks are expected to rotate between being a wingback and a midfielder.
As the ball moves up the pitch, it creates:
a) a 3-3-1-3 when the ball is being progressed up the pitch (the 3 at the back are the centre backs, the 3 in the mid are the two wingbacks plus a mid, then a mid playing as a CAM, then front three). This can be described as a 3-3-3-1 depending on how high up the pitch the striker is managing to pull the defending line. The idea is that, theoretically, if you build up this way you can stretch the pitch with width, and will always have overloads down the back (3 centrebacks + goalie vs two/three strikers; three mids + CAM vs two/three mids) as you progress the ball.
b) a 3-1-3-3 once the ball has progressed up the pitch (where one mid sits as a DM in front of the centrebacks, and the other six players all try to aggressively press to keep the ball from leaving the opposition half). Biesla loves his pressing so this is really just designed to enable that. It also, theoretically, creates overloads, as you can have double-ups on the edges of the box (winger+wingback creating space for each other). The system is super reliant on having a good DM though - if the press is played through the DM is the difference between recycling the ball and giving away a counterattack.
I have no idea if Chiefy is going to do this but would be interesting to see him try.
Oh also worth noting that the formation doesn't have to start as a 5-2-3 - most of the time Bielsa uses this as the out of possession shape, but he's also used a 4-1-4-1, a 4-2-3-1, etc. Principles are the same no matter the passive formation though.
nice description! some other features:
- the wide forwards are often instructed to stay wide for as long as possible when attacking.
- the defence stay deep. the top forward stays high. this opens up the pitch and enables the team to play flowing football through the thirds
- players have to be next level fit
- the injury toll is typically significant
- a one player advantage is sought at the back. if the opposition play a front 3, 4 defenders are deployed. if facing a front 2, 3 defenders are deployed.
leeds fans will attest, they were a great watch under bielsa. personally i tried to watch them as often as possible because you were guaranteed a good game. it was noticeable that players burnt out after a few seasons of this. if the player intensity drops enough the system basically becomes defence-less.
That’d make him Piscopo or Sotirio valuable! Unless that’s all competitions, with 2-3 in the cup. That’s more than Ball or Kosta (or about Waine or Sasse for that matter) added this season with their starting positions.
He's an out and out striker though whereas Ball or Kosta are secondary strikers. So, more comparison with Waine than them.
It is hard to say if OVH is up to A-League level yet. He has made 20 appearances but only played 245 minutes (13 mins in 4 wins, 54 mins in 3 draws, 178 mins in 13 losses). Uffie would sub him on when we are playing rubbish & just throwing the kitchen sink at teams. He hasn't really been put in a position to show what he can do. However I haven't seen any glimpses of talent like Waine showed early.
Waine played 337 mins in his first 20 games, scoring that tap in vs City. His minutes are boosted by Rudan throwing that R27 game vs the Glory, where Waine got 90 mins in his 3rd appearance.
Yeah this discourse is presumptive, and quite crazy. Anyone who's watched the reserves (when he wasn't playing RB) or the NZ youth teams knows he's a player
Wasn’t one of the reasons that this coach was hired, was that the board didn’t want to change the style of play?
I must admit I swallowed hard when I heard that line and hoped it was a lie
Never heard that said. I don't think the Welnix board, have been that hands on dictating the style of play since the early ownership days and the cat slayer.
But yes basically Domey trumpted the promotion from within coach selection, as a sign of a club heading in a mature long term direction. Both the ALW & ALM head coach appointments were after all effectively internal promotions. However doesn't mean either new appointment can't set up differently to their predecessor
Circling back to gk chat, how does everyone feel about comments from the nix camp that Paulsen is going to get a shot at the number 1 shirt and that they will be signing a gk as competition for him, rather than trying to bring in someone who would automatically be no. 1? I think Paulsen looked great in his run of games either last season or the one before, but I think that sounds like we aren't going to sign Stefan and I think that would be a shame. he is quality and I honestly think sail has dipped so much from his peak that he should be given another go at starting for the all whites.
Circling back to gk chat, how does everyone feel about comments from the nix camp that Paulsen is going to get a shot at the number 1 shirt and that they will be signing a gk as competition for him, rather than trying to bring in someone who would automatically be no. 1? I think Paulsen looked great in his run of games either last season or the one before, but I think that sounds like we aren't going to sign Stefan and I think that would be a shame. he is quality and I honestly think sail has dipped so much from his peak that he should be given another go at starting for the all whites.
How much has Paulsen played in the last year? That’s a concern for me.
And we should get the best team we can, but maybe with a better/different defense in front of the keeper is the way Chief thinks he can do that?
Circling back to gk chat, how does everyone feel about comments from the nix camp that Paulsen is going to get a shot at the number 1 shirt and that they will be signing a gk as competition for him, rather than trying to bring in someone who would automatically be no. 1? I think Paulsen looked great in his run of games either last season or the one before, but I think that sounds like we aren't going to sign Stefan and I think that would be a shame. he is quality and I honestly think sail has dipped so much from his peak that he should be given another go at starting for the all whites.
How much has Paulsen played in the last year? That’s a concern for me.
And we should get the best team we can, but maybe with a better/different defense in front of the keeper is the way Chief thinks he can do that?
I don't think game time should matter too much, Sail was in a similar position before he become our main goalie a few appearances here and there, and then came in for Marinovic and had a few great games and kept his spot. Every time Paulsen played he's looked solid so gotta give him the benefit of the doubt and take a chance on him could turn out like Gauci did for Adelaide they're around the same age.
That’d make him Piscopo or Sotirio valuable! Unless that’s all competitions, with 2-3 in the cup. That’s more than Ball or Kosta (or about Waine or Sasse for that matter) added this season with their starting positions.
He's an out and out striker though whereas Ball or Kosta are secondary strikers. So, more comparison with Waine than them.
Circling back to gk chat, how does everyone feel about comments from the nix camp that Paulsen is going to get a shot at the number 1 shirt and that they will be signing a gk as competition for him, rather than trying to bring in someone who would automatically be no. 1? I think Paulsen looked great in his run of games either last season or the one before, but I think that sounds like we aren't going to sign Stefan and I think that would be a shame. he is quality and I honestly think sail has dipped so much from his peak that he should be given another go at starting for the all whites.
We have the privilege of being able to easily watch Sail every week, but Stefan has had likely the worst stretch of football in his career this past season.
Neither of them should be "given a go" at starting for the All Whites by benching our greatest young GK prospect in who knows how long
I find the whole 'lets put our faith in Paulsen' thing a bit disquieting. Although in theory every position in a team is equally important I've always thought you should start with the very best keeper you can get and then build from there.
A top quality keeper inspires confidence throughout the team and provides crucial solidity and organisation. The lesser keepers can still make the flashy saves but they often lack the skills and common sense in the more mundane aspects of goalkeeping, and over the course of a whole season that's where they often get found out. To a certain extent you can get away with a lack of quality as an outfield player but for a keeper you are totally exposed.
i'll readily admit I didn't see a minute of Stefan in Israel, but it did seem to me that he held down a starting spot for a long time there and it is a decent enough level. Has he been conceding howler after howler recently, or was he just conceding lots behind an awful team and not had his contract renewed? I'd also make the point that a player might find it difficult to prosper long term in such a foreign environment but get back to his best with a return home (Rojas an excellent example of this). Sail has no such excuse. mrsmiis
imanixsupporter
Circling back to gk chat, how does everyone feel about comments from the nix camp that Paulsen is going to get a shot at the number 1 shirt and that they will be signing a gk as competition for him, rather than trying to bring in someone who would automatically be no. 1? I think Paulsen looked great in his run of games either last season or the one before, but I think that sounds like we aren't going to sign Stefan and I think that would be a shame. he is quality and I honestly think sail has dipped so much from his peak that he should be given another go at starting for the all whites.
We have the privilege of being able to easily watch Sail every week, but Stefan has had likely the worst stretch of football in his career this past season.
Neither of them should be "given a go" at starting for the All Whites by benching our greatest young GK prospect in who knows how long
Let’s not forget big Stef was dropped as Nix keeper for Sail. Paulsen has had a few years now training in an ALM environment. In the few games we have seen he has impressed. If the coaches who see him every day at training think he’s ready you trust their judgement. Chiefy has seen AP day in day out for 2 seasons now. It ain’t some Kalezic hunch gamble based off 2 trainings or something
But you bring in another young keeper (maybe someone with prior ALM experience) to push Paulsen for his spot.
Have faith it won’t turn into another Keegan Smith/Italiano/Veldpahi (spp) type mess
I find the whole 'lets put our faith in Paulsen' thing a bit disquieting. Although in theory every position in a team is equally important I've always thought you should start with the very best keeper you can get and then build from there.
A top quality keeper inspires confidence throughout the team and provides crucial solidity and organisation. The lesser keepers can still make the flashy saves but they often lack the skills and common sense in the more mundane aspects of goalkeeping, and over the course of a whole season that's where they often get found out. To a certain extent you can get away with a lack of quality as an outfield player but for a keeper you are totally exposed.
Paulsen did the job perfectly well when asked. Same as when Sail came in all those yuears back and held the #1 spot. No reason to assume Paulsen has gotten worse! Marinovic, as others have said has been in woeful form of late, why would he be seen as a better option than a young gun we've been working with for two or more seasons? I'm confident that Paulsen will make a good showing of being #1. If the plan is to bring in a back up of similar experience to challenge that then it will make for an interesting season watching the two grow and scrap for the spot.
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