WPM R2 vs Perth Glory | Sat 28th Oct | 5:30pm | RoF/Sky Sports 7

I'll admit I never saw him in his UK days but across the yellow shirt and the all whites jersey that was the best game Tim Payne has ever played in the last four years right?

Out of position but funnily enough he was a lot more solid than usual when he did have to defend 

Payne is an odd one. Played in the Wales game in the midfield and wasn’t too bad iirc! 15 years ago? 

Then I’d say perhaps was limited by his outlook or the kind of training he was doing in recent years? Not enough flexibility or something? 

Didn’t impress enough to lock down a CB role or a DM role, but then again has contributed a lot in the former role. 

Have to be honest that I don’t understand him as a player! Probably been emblematic of the club of late.

Couldn’t catch the whole game today, but in terms of Payne’s best game I remember the WSW masterclass he put on a few years back, topped off with that post-clearance primal roar

Bit more time to reflect after that one, and from my end it was actually quite a good even game on the balance of things.

Perth didn't really fire a shot in that first half until that ball was cleared off the line late, but in saying that, we could have been 2-0 ahead if it weren't for a bit of a shanked shot hitting the woodwork. Fine margins.

Perth were by far and away the better team from after H/T up until about that 70 minute mark and fully deserved their equaliser. Proper Stajcic tactics at play there to drag them back into it, they looked fair value for the three points at that point as well.

Old 🔛 Rufer was the winner on the day. His interception to turn over in the lead up to the goal was much needed, but he provided a good bit of impetus/quality off the bench to help us get the W. I've said it earlier in pre season that players like him - in the absence of experience and star quality will really need to put their best foot forward this season. I know he's coming back from injury and we're working him into the season, but that's hopefully a promising sign for us. 🤞

As for all the other young Kiwi cohort, well, I'm pleasantly surprised to say the least. I think the kids are going to do well and prove a few people wrong this season.

Paulsen - Get him on a long term deal right this minute! 
Surman - Solid, if unspectacular, but that's exactly what I want in a CB.
Kelly-Heald - Really, really good, especially in the first half, could have blotted it had that penalty gone in, but hopefully that's what we'll call a teachable moment.
Old  - Gave us the impetus to go and get that winning goal. More of the same please this season good sir!

Finally congrats to Gillion & Hughes for their A-League debuts. A huge moment in any young footballers career, and to top it off with a win will definitely feel good this evening.

Still lots to work on lads, but some equally good signs. How good to have a positive start results wise to the season too! 

Payne bombed forward numerous times, put in some good crosses, saved a goal on the goal line, rarked up people who needed it. Great game.
Very happy too with Kosta, Kraev, Paulsen of course and Rufer. Oldie well done. Not unhappy with our defence either. Ka pai Chiefy! Congratulations.

Tim Payne was in career best form at RB earlier in Ufuk's reign. If today is any indication he could be getting back to that level. Even on his worst day he is a better defender at RB than Callan Elliot ever could be but at at his best he is rock solid (at least at A-League level) and offers enough going forward too. 

Edit: maybe that's a harsh way to say that Payne is better defender than Callan, who obviously has upsides to his game. Wonder how much he is regretting not signing the contract now 

Looking at replay, the keeper has to come and claim the ball where Perth scored. It was headed well within the 6 yard box.

Rufer should leave by mutual consent.

Surman looking better with every game.

Young lads doing well

Showtime Nixie

Rufer should leave by mutual consent.

Surman looking better with every game.

Young lads doing well

You want our club captain and leader for all these youngsters to leave by mutual consent? Why? He didn't even have a bad game 

Showtime Nixie

Rufer should leave by mutual consent.

Surman looking better with every game.

Young lads doing well

You sure you watched the same game. Never ceases to amaze me multiple coaches see he gives us something yet key board warriors like you are seemingly blind. Thankfully you will never get close to selecting our team.

Rufer was great yesterday and last week too. There's some odd takes out there which are driven by people's perception of a player, rather than fact.

Fenix

Old made a difference, well done 
We got a great goal, but overall not enough of that kind if positive play,and we were a bit lucky.


And if that's a penalty,I'm a Dutchman.  I don't understand what part of the current complex rule says that's a pen. He's moving away from the ball,looking the other way,in a natural position.

Some common sense needed to be played there. The ball was about 2 inches or less from going out (I thought it was over the line but the player wasn't), NO Perth player was within 10 feet of it nor were they challenging for it. It was out or going out. Not a moral penalty, just a pedantic one. Again, use some common sense. Lesson learned for Kelly-Heald, don't touch it. But should never have been given. As for Paulsen, what can't he do?? So much potential, yet he is displaying a truly seasoned players attributes. Good on him.

LG

Fenix

Old made a difference, well done 
We got a great goal, but overall not enough of that kind if positive play,and we were a bit lucky.


And if that's a penalty,I'm a Dutchman.  I don't understand what part of the current complex rule says that's a pen. He's moving away from the ball,looking the other way,in a natural position.

Some common sense needed to be played there. The ball was about 2 inches or less from going out (I thought it was over the line but the player wasn't), NO Perth player was within 10 feet of it nor were they challenging for it. It was out or going out. Not a moral penalty, just a pedantic one. Again, use some common sense. Lesson learned for Kelly-Heald, don't touch it. But should never have been given. As for Paulsen, what can't he do?? So much potential, yet he is displaying a truly seasoned players attributes. Good on him.

There’s a statistical theory that takers miss unfair pens at a higher rate. Think we got a weak pen from Taggart, for sure. Though some would say Paulsen forced him to it…

Anyone have any idea how many were at the game? About 6k maybe?

Hopefully more for the next match!!

anaveragestem

Anyone have any idea how many were at the game? About 6k maybe?

Hopefully more for the next match!!

6,101 and from being there, that seemed generous

martinb

LG

Fenix

Old made a difference, well done 
We got a great goal, but overall not enough of that kind if positive play,and we were a bit lucky.


And if that's a penalty,I'm a Dutchman.  I don't understand what part of the current complex rule says that's a pen. He's moving away from the ball,looking the other way,in a natural position.

Some common sense needed to be played there. The ball was about 2 inches or less from going out (I thought it was over the line but the player wasn't), NO Perth player was within 10 feet of it nor were they challenging for it. It was out or going out. Not a moral penalty, just a pedantic one. Again, use some common sense. Lesson learned for Kelly-Heald, don't touch it. But should never have been given. As for Paulsen, what can't he do?? So much potential, yet he is displaying a truly seasoned players attributes. Good on him.

There’s a statistical theory that takers miss unfair pens at a higher rate. Think we got a weak pen from Taggart, for sure. Though some would say Paulsen forced him to it…

Remember last year when SFC missed *two* unfair pens in the last minute against us

That penalty 
The Kelly-Heald incident is a prime example of how the game is beginning to lose some of its spirit.
The introduction of VAR was supposed to assist the referee as a decision-making tool and its now being used to go to extreme levels of pickiness.
Parallel to this are the rules / regulations surrounding ball handling within the penalty area which have gone to extreme levels of detail, making it so difficult to establish what the reasons for many handball decisions are.
Yesterdays episode when the ball was unintentionally handled, when going out anyway, was jumped on by the VAR and in the process was followed through to a ridiculous conclusion.   
First there were no cameras on the goal lines from what we could see.So clips for analysis were taken from an acute angle.
Secondly the only objective judgement as to what actually happened when the ball crossed the line was the referees assistant. He may or may not have seen it. But could he have seen where the ball struck KH's hand in relation to the goal line and when in a split second ,from where he was standing? Was he consulted by the VAR?
The answer would surely have to be he wasn't sure.
Thirdly, the physics concept of the Error of Parallax comes into play with no digital referencing on the pitch and a chip in the ball. 
My point is that these 3 issues raise a hell of a lot of doubt that a correct and just conclusion on this  event can be reached by the methods and tools available at yesterdays game. 
The defending team should have been awarded a goalkick on the grounds of benefit of the doubt. 

Gdog

That penalty 
The Kelly-Heald incident is a prime example of how the game is beginning to lose some of its spirit.
The introduction of VAR was supposed to assist the referee as a decision-making tool and its now being used to go to extreme levels of pickiness.
Parallel to this are the rules / regulations surrounding ball handling within the penalty area which have gone to extreme levels of detail, making it so difficult to establish what the reasons for many handball decisions are.
Yesterdays episode when the ball was unintentionally handled, when going out anyway, was jumped on by the VAR and in the process was followed through to a ridiculous conclusion.   
First there were no cameras on the goal lines from what we could see.So clips for analysis were taken from an acute angle.
Secondly the only objective judgement as to what actually happened when the ball crossed the line was the referees assistant. He may or may not have seen it. But could he have seen where the ball struck KH's hand in relation to the goal line and when in a split second ,from where he was standing? Was he consulted by the VAR?
The answer would surely have to be he wasn't sure.
Thirdly, the physics concept of the Error of Parallax comes into play with no digital referencing on the pitch and a chip in the ball. 
My point is that these 3 issues raise a hell of a lot of doubt that a correct and just conclusion on this  event can be reached by the methods and tools available at yesterdays game. 
The defending team should have been awarded a goalkick on the grounds of benefit of the doubt. 

Well. Yes.
And how could Kelly Healds hand have been in an "unnatural " position when he wasn't even considering or looking at the ball. He just thought that it was going out of play.

I suspect AR2 sees the handball. My recollection is that the officials on the ground were all immediately switched on to something having happened. (AR2 comes on field to stop the corner being played.)

There are 3 different points for consideration of handball in the laws.
The first is :
deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball

The coaching is, the longer the distance the ball travels, and with the players visibility unimpeded, a handling offence is considered to be more deliberate. It's a clumsy, clumsy decision by the defender, and they paid the price.

Showtime Nixie

Rufer should leave by mutual consent.

Surman looking better with every game.

Young lads doing well

You're winding us up.🤣 
About Rufer.

zonknz

I suspect AR2 sees the handball. My recollection is that the officials on the ground were all immediately switched on to something having happened. (AR2 comes on field to stop the corner being played.)

There are 3 different points for consideration of handball in the laws.
The first is :
deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball

The coaching is, the longer the distance the ball travels, and with the players visibility unimpeded, a handling offence is considered to be more deliberate. It's a clumsy, clumsy decision by the defender, and they paid the price.

Cool. There is not the slightest chance that handball was deliberate.
So please let us go through the other two points....

Re your comment about Alex Rufer.

Perhaps you could provide a brief synopsis of your footballing and coaching credentials and then explain why your views are at variance with Talay, Italiano, and successive coaches/selectors of various All Whites squad. 

Showtime Nixie

Rufer should leave by mutual consent.

Surman looking better with every game.

Young lads doing well

Ryan

Rufer was great yesterday and last week too. There's some odd takes out there which are driven by people's perception of a player, rather than fact.

100% agree. He's solid, works hard and for the a league is an above average level of player. 

booing former players is classless and moronic. i know for a fact that a certain former captain was upset/disappointed when he was on the recieving end of this rubbish

it would be nice if we could be the one club who doesn't do this, but nup

i enjoyed rufer's firm rubuttal of goran paladins smart arse-ness in the post patch intervew too

apart from that, the fever were amazing, came through very loud on the tele. so, for the most part, well done you lot

and the team were brilliant. 15% better than last week. we've been fortunate, but you can see a clear plan and also progress, imo way ahead of schedule. things are looking good!

reg22

booing former players is classless and moronic. i know for a fact that a certain former captain was upset/disappointed when he was on the recieving end of this rubbish

it would be nice if we could be the one club who doesn't do this, but nup

i enjoyed rufer's firm rubuttal of goran paladins smart arse-ness in the post patch intervew too

apart from that, the fever were amazing, came through very loud on the tele. so, for the most part, well done you lot

and the team were brilliant. 15% better than last week. we've been fortunate, but you can see a clear plan and also progress, imo way ahead of schedule. things are looking good!

Oli said he expected to get some stick. But for me yesterday was way over the top seemed as is if some spent more time giving Oli shark than they did chanting for the Phoenix. Got to be very boring especially the over load on it in the 2nd half.

reg22

booing former players is classless and moronic. i know for a fact that a certain former captain was upset/disappointed when he was on the recieving end of this rubbish

it would be nice if we could be the one club who doesn't do this, but nup

i enjoyed rufer's firm rubuttal of goran paladins smart arse-ness in the post patch intervew too

apart from that, the fever were amazing, came through very loud on the tele. so, for the most part, well done you lot

and the team were brilliant. 15% better than last week. we've been fortunate, but you can see a clear plan and also progress, imo way ahead of schedule. things are looking good!

What was said in the interview?

I think something else we haven’t mentioned that helps us a lot us Paulsen’s ability to play out with his feet. He’s had it at all his youth levels I believe. Where the commentators are worrying and calling it a close call, that’s where he’s happy to operate to spring the press. It’s a feature of his play, not a flaw. Also noticeable is that we mix it up- we don’t play out from the back every time. 

reg22

booing former players is classless and moronic. i know for a fact that a certain former captain was upset/disappointed when he was on the recieving end of this rubbish

it would be nice if we could be the one club who doesn't do this, but nup

i enjoyed rufer's firm rubuttal of goran paladins smart arse-ness in the post patch intervew too

apart from that, the fever were amazing, came through very loud on the tele. so, for the most part, well done you lot

and the team were brilliant. 15% better than last week. we've been fortunate, but you can see a clear plan and also progress, imo way ahead of schedule. things are looking good!

I dunno- a bit of booing with the winning or continuously having returning players score against us? And football needs heroes and villains. Tough luck if you’re one of the villains! 

The Snakes were egregious and deserved all the boos they got. Love Dura- but to leave with Rudan and no-fans United wasn’t going to cement his legend status. Particularly the questionable way Rudan left Singh on the bench in the finals series games for Maxi knowing that both he and Maxi were breaking contract. 

And that Rudan is that motormouth, calculating kind of guy. Certainly he seemed to sell a lot of NZ football folks on a monorail. 

We can acknowledge Oli after the game and any time he wants to return to play here. But again he had a bit of a pop on the way out if everything’s to be believed. That’s probably heightened his treatment. 

Long story short the boos are equivalent to their pantomime villain status. Not sure that Uli or Kosta ever attracted many. Or Smeltzy- though we did remind him of the score iirc? Mossy was a bit cranky by the time he left, but don’t think he ever copped much. Reddy and Vukovic are usually warmly remembered. Ridenton didn’t get booed when he was at Newcastle or the Roar!

martinb

I think something else we haven’t mentioned that helps us a lot us Paulsen’s ability to play out with his feet. He’s had it at all his youth levels I believe. Where the commentators are worrying and calling it a close call, that’s where he’s happy to operate to spring the press. It’s a feature of his play, not a flaw. Also noticeable is that we mix it up- we don’t play out from the back every time. 

Yes. I think that it stetches the opposition well. I think that we had an 87% pass accuracy rate which is good. If we can keep that going or improve it, we'll be able to create a lot of space to exploit. 

Ryan

Rufer was great yesterday and last week too. There's some odd takes out there which are driven by people's perception of a player, rather than fact.

🙄 
Rufer has been very good. That is a true statement. 

ballane

reg22

booing former players is classless and moronic. i know for a fact that a certain former captain was upset/disappointed when he was on the recieving end of this rubbish

it would be nice if we could be the one club who doesn't do this, but nup

i enjoyed rufer's firm rubuttal of goran paladins smart arse-ness in the post patch intervew too

apart from that, the fever were amazing, came through very loud on the tele. so, for the most part, well done you lot

and the team were brilliant. 15% better than last week. we've been fortunate, but you can see a clear plan and also progress, imo way ahead of schedule. things are looking good!

Oli said he expected to get some stick. But for me yesterday was way over the top seemed as is if some spent more time giving Oli shark than they did chanting for the Phoenix. Got to be very boring especially the over load on it in the 2nd half.

article https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/300998133/thats-not-an-international-goalkeeper-oli-sail-endures-nightmare-return-to-wellington
says exactly that, he expected the reaction we gave him and was ok with it, someone even apologised to him after the game. Thing is most of us will boo and jeer at him during the game, afterwards we'll share a beer with him at the pub! It's not personal just football - its so much better with villans and heroes.

Sail has always been very good to the fans though, and even in his announcement interview to the glory he talked up the yellow fever.

Now we've got it out of our system, next time we'll be more gracious hopefully.

Good to get the three points but was immensely frustrating to watch after how good we were in the first 20 minutes, to then take our foot off the throttle and sit back deep behind the ball again. Need to turn how we played in that 20m into a full games performance and we'll go fine this year.

For the arguments about Rufer, I can't understand how he was substituted before Pennington. Pennington is one of the worst midfielders that has played for the Phoenix. He's slow, only passes sideways and backwards and continually gives away fouls during games. 

Ryan

Sail has always been very good to the fans though, and even in his announcement interview to the glory he talked up the yellow fever.

Now we've got it out of our system, next time we'll be more gracious hopefully.

wont be this season, we play them away twice.

WallyWilliams

Good to get the three points but was immensely frustrating to watch after how good we were in the first 20 minutes, to then take our foot off the throttle and sit back deep behind the ball again. Need to turn how we played in that 20m into a full games performance and we'll go fine this year.

For the arguments about Rufer, I can't understand how he was substituted before Pennington. Pennington is one of the worst midfielders that has played for the Phoenix. He's slow, only passes sideways and backwards and continually gives away fouls during games. 

@KungFuPanda

WallyWilliams

Good to get the three points but was immensely frustrating to watch after how good we were in the first 20 minutes, to then take our foot off the throttle and sit back deep behind the ball again. Need to turn how we played in that 20m into a full games performance and we'll go fine this year.

For the arguments about Rufer, I can't understand how he was substituted before Pennington. Pennington is one of the worst midfielders that has played for the Phoenix. He's slow, only passes sideways and backwards and continually gives away fouls during games. 

don't let KF Panda see that comment, he'll be most upset.

Booing Sail is also an acknowledgement that he still lives in our head and to some degree we care about him, a nobody player would not get the same fire. I really want him to do some blunders against us as a from of payback and he did great! On a personal level I wish him he'll get his form back player other teams.

martinb

I think something else we haven’t mentioned that helps us a lot us Paulsen’s ability to play out with his feet. He’s had it at all his youth levels I believe. Where the commentators are worrying and calling it a close call, that’s where he’s happy to operate to spring the press. It’s a feature of his play, not a flaw. Also noticeable is that we mix it up- we don’t play out from the back every time. 

both feet too. so impressive