WPM R2 vs Perth Glory | Sat 28th Oct | 5:30pm | RoF/Sky Sports 7

theprof

WallyWilliams

Good to get the three points but was immensely frustrating to watch after how good we were in the first 20 minutes, to then take our foot off the throttle and sit back deep behind the ball again. Need to turn how we played in that 20m into a full games performance and we'll go fine this year.

For the arguments about Rufer, I can't understand how he was substituted before Pennington. Pennington is one of the worst midfielders that has played for the Phoenix. He's slow, only passes sideways and backwards and continually gives away fouls during games. 

don't let KF Panda see that comment, he'll be most upset.

Give me time. I need to look at the facts and see if the criticism is accurate. 

I don't want to argue Rufer vs Pennington. I really like both players.
I posted an image but it doesn't accept the post.
Anyway fouls in our half were:
Pennington 2
Kelly Heald  2
Barbarouse  1
Kraev   1

Last 5 matches
Pennington 1.3/ game
Kelly-Heald  1.0/game
Barbarouses 1.2/game
Kraev 1.2/game

Challenges won
Pennington  20
Kelly Heald 18
Barbarouses 9
Kraev 11

My suspicion is Wally might be a multi account doing a bit of trolling. 

But on a related point- these forums, papers and highlights are part of the record.

I’d already complained about how some highlights were cut. But for example the forum thought Payne did well, but he scarcely features in some short highlights. Also they often favour the Aussie teams making it look as if we were poor but lucky given the balance of play. They often show goals, but can’t reflect the way the game went overall. 

Enjoy the luxury of rewatching games those of you that can! 

Pennington. Slow.
No stats. I know that he runs further than anyone in the team on average. And is good on high speed short bursts.

Worst midfielder we've ever had:
In games where Pennington started in the A-League, therefore excluding cup:
Average: 1.6ppg= 42 points/season
I believe that 70% of games he's started are against teams who finished the season in the top 6.
The conclusion of that is that when Pennington starts we get more points than when he doesn't. 
N.B 1 game excluded Melbourne v Phoenix. Last game of 2021/2022 as we didn't need points and we put out a reserve team.

lthomas20

reg22

booing former players is classless and moronic. i know for a fact that a certain former captain was upset/disappointed when he was on the recieving end of this rubbish

it would be nice if we could be the one club who doesn't do this, but nup

i enjoyed rufer's firm rubuttal of goran paladins smart arse-ness in the post patch intervew too

apart from that, the fever were amazing, came through very loud on the tele. so, for the most part, well done you lot

and the team were brilliant. 15% better than last week. we've been fortunate, but you can see a clear plan and also progress, imo way ahead of schedule. things are looking good!

What was said in the interview?

They've been surprisingly good about uploading content this season, allowing us to view the post-match footage that earlier seemed to disappear directly into the void. The exchange referred to in the above begins at 1:40 in the below:
https://aleagues.com.au/videos/id/paulsen-is-on-fire-captain-rufer-delighted-with-goalkeepers-heroics/6340035496112/

I think Rufer showed excellent captain-like qualities in that interview, showing respect for Ollie Sail. He leads by example with his play and has started the season strongly. Ka pai captain Rufer.

Yeah I don't think Rufer gets enough love and definitely gets some undue hate. I think we're very lucky to have a player in midfield who seemingly wants to stay in the team for his entire playing career. This really counts for a lot when it comes to things like continuity and the culture in the squad. He is also a local boy and seems to be a really nice bloke which in my opinion should count for a lot. 

I also reckon he is continuing to improve and evolve his play. I've noticed across the last two games that his long passing has significantly improved in accuracy and so is his vision of the field. He is essentially taking on part of what was Lewis' job. 

A stalwart like Rufer really makes a team and I can only see him improving and becoming more integral. 

Yeah, he spent most of his career as a forward and a bit of a utility player who couldn't get a good run of games in the first team for a long stint of his career. At one point he had to have a trial when coaches changed to see if we even wanted to keep him. Remember that occasion when he wasn't making the Phoenix squad but ended up playing for the All Whites as a striker? 

I remember an interview with him years ago when he said he had never played a defensive midfield roll before but had identified it as a gap in the team and therefore was targeting it.

I think probably in hindsight what we saw as inconsistency was a player who was really trying to get to grips with a different role without a whole lot of gametime and (judging by the fact that the team forced him to trial to stay in the squad) support, couple that with a few injury set backs, and it's no wonder he keeps getting better as he plays more.

Hopefully Payne and Rufer can emerge this season as Brown and Siggie 2.0 (or Boxy) in terms of commitment to the Phoenix and places in the stalwart pantheon. 

Actually, while perhaps they aren’t expecting it, if they do pick up their consistency and perform up a level or two they might be able to look overseas. 

But it’d be equally great if they could give their best performances in yellow and black and propel us to top of the table contenders. 

Here’s a question- how does Rufer rate against Stamenic/Bell/Lewis for more time in the AWs engine room? 

anaveragestem

Yeah I don't think Rufer gets enough love and definitely gets some undue hate. I think we're very lucky to have a player in midfield who seemingly wants to stay in the team for his entire playing career. This really counts for a lot when it comes to things like continuity and the culture in the squad. He is also a local boy and seems to be a really nice bloke which in my opinion should count for a lot. 

I also reckon he is continuing to improve and evolve his play. I've noticed across the last two games that his long passing has significantly improved in accuracy and so is his vision of the field. He is essentially taking on part of what was Lewis' job. 

A stalwart like Rufer really makes a team and I can only see him improving and becoming more integral. 

There was a point where Uffie had him playing really well with the ball going forward too- dribbling, beating players, always looking for a progressive ball or shot. 

But yeh I think he’s clearer about his role now and being a defensive wall/ first point of release would be sufficient provided there’s enough around him- and I did enjoy the sight of Old, Kosta, Zawada and Kraev all combining to score the winner on Saturday! 

Was googling to find a timeline for Rufer when I found a good niche cache article that's worth a read.
https://theniche-cache.com/football/2021/11/26/an-analysis-of-alex-rufer-the-welly-nixs-most-misunderstood-player

it was pathetic. A bit of booing early on wouldve been fine, but this went on for the whole game. There was serious aggression and nastiness on the face of the ‘you f****d up’ losers as he walked off at half time and the same dullards waited ten minutes or more to abuse him after the final whistle. True, a few from the YF were more welcoming at the end, but overall it was pitiful to watch. Having watched every home game since day one, I haven’t seen any other former player being treated that way. Credit to Oli for saying it didnt bother him. His face, however, told a different story.

number8

Booing Sail is also an acknowledgement that he still lives in our head and to some degree we care about him, a nobody player would not get the same fire. I really want him to do some blunders against us as a from of payback and he did great! On a personal level I wish him he'll get his form back player other teams.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

I think Rufer showed excellent captain-like qualities in that interview, showing respect for Ollie Sail. He leads by example with his play and has started the season strongly. Ka pai captain Rufer.

Yeah that was an asshole move by Goran, considering his jabs at Oli was on the PA system and he was still on the park. Very well handled by Alex.

Those of you complaining about booing and jeering a former player, cry me a river. It reminds me of people sitting in the Yellow Fever in Auckland and then complaining when people are standing all game.

We need to make our stadium a fortress, and atmosphere (including giving the opposition a hard time, regardless of who is playing) is the best way to help our players/hinder the opposition. I didn't see The Cove/Sydney FC letting up when Ninkovic went to the Wanderers, did they?

Besides, we need atmosphere when we're only drawing 6k to a 30k stadium...

Don't mind the crowd noise for ex players, welcome to the world of football. Don't think it wouldve hurt Oli one bit hes pretty tough skin. part n parcel of the game. And fair play to Rufer for sticking up for his mate.

That Goran on the other hand hes a clown. Shouldnt be anywhere near a tv. NZ really need to sort out who operates its coverage. 

We did exactly the same to Durante and Smeltz when they came home. Sail knew the risks when he took Sage's Bitcoin

Yeah it’s just a bit of banter. Dura’s lucky he didn’t get a pigs head thrown at him a la Figo when he defected to the snakes.

Sorry no what was dished out to Oli was far worse. Dont mind giving him some stick but some just carried on far to much.

Boys looked good, pleasantly surprised as i missed the opening game so wasnt sure what to expect. Unfortunate hand ball, but a good learning experience. Paulsen looks very comfortable.  

Paulsen will be gone by season end if he keeps up his form... expecting a big Olympic campaign from him too.

MetalLegNZ

Paulsen will be gone by season end if he keeps up his form... expecting a big Olympic campaign from him too.

Hope we can get him a new contract before that happens given his current one expires at the end of the season, if he continues on as he has been someone will pay a transfer fee.

so when you leave one employer after giving many years of great service, and go to another, you are ‘defecting’?

Interesting perspective.

Friar Tuck

Yeah it’s just a bit of banter. Dura’s lucky he didn’t get a pigs head thrown at him a la Figo when he defected to the snakes.

 

Yeah, it's interesting when you compare it to normal careers, would the person who is booing stay in a job that they don't like because of loyalty?

Is your normal job about ritualised battle where the image of your ‘warriors’ is important to that job? An entertainment one where this image directly contributes to your employers success?

Is your job a leadership one where you are supposed to be a role model and exemplar of the club/army? 

Is leaving with someone who it seems likely was already arranging things with different employers while slagging off his current ones, you know, like a dishonest person/villain, compatible with the first two? 

Is it common in your entertainment profession for people who go to rivals to be booed when they return? 

I believe a back office roll for Dura was being prepared with the Nix and he didn’t want it. 
But if he didn’t want to be booed there were lots of ways to leave differently. Like Mossy, he was cranky when he left and seemed to think he’d wasted his time here. 

Get off your high horses. 

Certainly if there are idiots taking it too far or a broadcaster whipping it up that’s not cool. 

But captaining a football team is different from working at McDs, and let’s not get worked up pretending they’re the same. 

Cheer for the home team and depending on how they left we might acknowledge former players. But tbh I’m sick of ex-Nix scoring against us. We want to win games. We can be nice after the game. 

martinb

Is your normal job about ritualised battle where the image of your ‘warriors’ is important to that job? An entertainment one where this image directly contributes to your employers success?

Is your job a leadership one where you are supposed to be a role model and exemplar of the club/army? 

Is leaving with someone who it seems likely was already arranging things with different employers while slagging off his current ones, you know, like a dishonest person/villain, compatible with the first two? 

Is it common in your entertainment profession for people who go to rivals to be booed when they return? 

I believe a back office roll for Dura was being prepared with the Nix and he didn’t want it. 
But if he didn’t want to be booed there were lots of ways to leave differently. Like Mossy, he was cranky when he left and seemed to think he’d wasted his time here. 

Get off your high horses. 

Certainly if there are idiots taking it too far or a broadcaster whipping it up that’s not cool. 

But captaining a football team is different from working at McDs, and let’s not get worked up pretending they’re the same. 

Cheer for the home team and depending on how they left we might acknowledge former players. But tbh I’m sick of ex-Nix scoring against us. We want to win games. We can be nice after the game. 

Exactly, why is that we (the nix fans) have to be the nice guys? Everyone else in the league can boo and jeer but if we do it the "ooh that's mean" police come out and in hoards.

Alf Tupper

so when you leave one employer after giving many years of great service, and go to another, you are ‘defecting’?

Interesting perspective.

Friar Tuck

Yeah it’s just a bit of banter. Dura’s lucky he didn’t get a pigs head thrown at him a la Figo when he defected to the snakes.

 

Commonly used phrase

FB_IMG_1698736000449.jpg 90.05 KB

This was given out to all Inter Milan fans upon Lukaku's return. I reckon Oli got off just fine with some humorous chants and shark talking, followed by receiving a round of applause at the end of the game. I hardly think we, uh..."DESTROYED IT PSYCHOLOGICALLY", to quote the Italians

80% of the league are ex players of some sort. Some of our current players will one day be ex players.

We should boo everyone. That can be our standard go to crowd noise. 

Jesus this conversation is still going?

I thought it was excessive but didn't really care, at least the crowd was making noise.

Only issue I had was Oli tends to get better when sharks going against him, and he got better, though if that long distance chip had gone in that woulda been embarassing.

Also doesn't help he fudgeed up royally at the start which was gonna feed the drunk chanting.

Whenever the chants that say the other team is hot kicks off too early I get nervous.  When we had a couple of them backfire last year I got gun-shy and nervous when yellow fever kicks it off too early.

But ultimately it's a big part of the job.  The comparison to other careers makes no sense.  It's about being stars.  The money comes from supporters watching you play.  If the watchers aren't invested and passionate, the pay dries up (no eyes, no sponsorship money).

I can honestly say I have never worked in a job where people pay money to have my name or my colleagues names on replica versions on my uniform.  So it's a wee bit different.

This is hump day. Time to start focusing on the next game. Thanks to our learned discussions we've learned all we can from the last one.

Cry me a river.

Sail is no phoenix legend like Durante. 

He had longevity but predominantly as the number 2 reserve goal keeper.

He acted as a pork chop last year in many games  and his flappy play last weekend brought back vivid memories of his last year at the nix.

I would expect he will end up as number 2 at his new club by the seasons end.

Friar Tuck

Yeah it’s just a bit of banter. Dura’s lucky he didn’t get a pigs head thrown at him a la Figo when he defected to the snakes.

 Figo defected to the snakes? I would throw lots of things at Figo for that.

I enjoyed the game and the commentary. As nice is Piney is, he’s a bit over the top, Marten did a better job for me.

Also nice that both Nix football teams stood up when the ABs and BCs both lost to our old enemies.

Pennington seems be be our weakest link now and as for Payne, those with long memories will remember that he used to play a lot more forward for NZ and Blackburn. He seems to be playing where he is more comfortable and just played his best game in nearly a decade.

A fit Old will be class and I really hope him, Surman, and Paulsen play in Greece in two weeks.

The biggest issue I have with Pennington is his consitancy - sure he may run a round a lot, we've all seen the stat of 13km.....but is his movement actually achieving anything or is he just ruinning around like a headless chicken. He played some decent football last season but also had some really horror games, and like Rufer before him always seems one moment away from a yellow card. It's too early in the season to make any judgements but I hope he comes right and provides the stability we need in the centre of the park. Al Taay would be the obvous replacement for him, if he doesnt.

Obviously I have to comment on the last 2 posts.
Why was Rufer subbed instead of Pennington. I have been looking at that a lot. At that point, they were winning the ball at a similar rate. Pennington a little better. That wasn't the reason though. Their pass rate was similar both about 90% accurate. The key difference was that Pennington was "showing for the ball" a lot more than Rufer and Al Taay. This is an important stat for coaches. I think this is the reason Pennington stayed on.
Regarding Pennington being a weak link. I don't know where you'd get that from. All the stats show the opposite. 
Consistency. Yes. Only the future games will tell.

And the reason for the 13 km is not the headless chicken thing, its that he actually tracks back after going forward.

IMHO

I like Pennington's energy but outside of that I don't feel he has a part of his game that is really stand out. Rufer, is a little limited to, but he is excellent at shielding the ball and using body to win a foul etc.

Pennington just seems the easier to replace player out of the two. 

I’ve been converted to being a bit of a fan of Pennington. I don’t think he’s the best player in the world but in the right role he seems to be able to contribute to the team.

The big thing for me this season is he seems to be pushing a bit higher and shaping as a goal threat. If he can convert that threat into actual goals he’ll be so valuable for us.

Clayton Lewis was kind of that guy but he did only actually score 3 goals in 3 seasons.

I'd like to take a moment after these first two games of the season to say how impressed I've been with this new signing the club quietly locked down in the off season: Kosta Barba-something was it? Looks a tidy player

MetalLegNZ

I like Pennington's energy but outside of that I don't feel he has a part of his game that is really stand out. Rufer, is a little limited to, but he is excellent at shielding the ball and using body to win a foul etc.

Pennington just seems the easier to replace player out of the two. 

Yes. That's the Crux of the matter.
In reality though he's like Rufer on Steroids.

What was the crowd number?