WPM R23 vs Melbourne City | Mon 10th April | 6:00pm | SS7

number8

What are we doing? It was 1:1 and then we turned into a pub team.

We heard Sail disagreeing publicly with Uffie’s tactics the other week. It feels like the team cohesion is gone. There’s no fight, no heart. Outside the odd trip to Adelaide I’d never believe a Phoenix team were done before the end. 
But yeh we got the goal back and that was it for the day…a lot of terrible body language, lack of belief in each other and themselves…

Edit: and just to be clear I think Sail was out of line. 

Monto

Honestly can't wait for a change of coach next season, I'm bloody over talayball.

I've given up on it too.
I'm suffering from a general apathy towards what we are doing at the moment, both on and off the pitch.

Slowly drifting into an A-League Malaise...

YoungHeartHM

Monto

Honestly can't wait for a change of coach next season, I'm bloody over talayball.

I've given up on it too.
I'm suffering from a general apathy towards what we are doing at the moment, both on and off the pitch.

Slowly drifting into an A-League Malaise...

Totally agree, I'm really having a hard time giving a shark about this team of imports and leaving players, its totally uninspiring. That and the system that Talay plays is just so damn boring to watch.

well that was hard to watch

We seem to be only a 1 half team. Good first half generally. Then ugly in the 2nd.

The issue is Talay has one tactic and if that fails we lose and if it succeeds we are only able to get 1-2 goals because opposition adapt and change their tactics and we are unable to change so just throw defenders on to try and preserve our slim lead. 

It's why the nix are so dire to watch, they look good at the start but that's where the ideas run out for Talay. I can't wait for something new and I'm glad we have zawada to build around next season.

This team badly needs a Ben Sigmund in defence and a Paul Ifill up top.

Monto

Honestly can't wait for a change of coach next season, I'm bloody over talayball.

Talay has the highest win ratio of any Phoenix coach, despite being not having a home game for two and a half seasons.  Thinking changing the coach will drastically improve things is absolute madness. You know we'll just replace him with Cheify, who does a lot of the tactics anyway.

The Prof and his few mates will have a go at me again here..

But i said months ago..Talay, Sasse n co will not deliver a happy ending.

Club is delusional and believe their own bs at times. Dome doesnt have a clue thats half the problem.

Best if Talay moves on. 

Fresh start with a new coach with new ideas and some new players.

Talay needs to go. End of. 

Ryan

Monto

Honestly can't wait for a change of coach next season, I'm bloody over talayball.

Talay has the highest win ratio of any Phoenix coach, despite being not having a home game for two and a half seasons.  Thinking changing the coach will drastically improve things is absolute madness. You know we'll just replace him with Cheify, who does a lot of the tactics anyway.

Well what's the solution then? Cause I'm sick of watching Graham Arnold's leftover tactics week in week out. He lacks any tactical flexibility that would make him a better coach.

Can't really say Talay hasn't been backed either, he's had our most expensive squad ever and has failed to get anything out of it. 

I'm all for change next season, new players, new coach, new ideas. If the Nix just appoint cheify then it just shows a complete lack of ambition that will put fans off even more.

Nommag

The issue is Talay has one tactic and if that fails we lose and if it succeeds we are only able to get 1-2 goals because opposition adapt and change their tactics and we are unable to change so just throw defenders on to try and preserve our slim lead. 

It's why the nix are so dire to watch, they look good at the start but that's where the ideas run out for Talay. I can't wait for something new and I'm glad we have zawada to build around next season.

Nailed it.

And to think this is the most expensive squad that we've put together in our history, it's a sad indictment on us that we can't impose ourselves on games and completely dominate opposition.
 
One dimensional and increasingly more over recent times an absolutely insipid watch for fans in the stands and those tuning in from the couch at home too. 

Talay might have run his race with us, but he's hardly rubber stamping that CV of his for his next employer...

we had a brilliant start to the match, which shows what we are capable of and how talay intends for the team to play. 

by the end of the game we have  reached that dreaded point in time we are looking to find the players that care. then for players who care and are also up to standard. 

there are not many ticking both of those boxes right now.

We've been asking it for some time now but Sail needs to be dropped to the bench. His positioning has been awful! 

Why do you need to be off your goal line when your team doesn't even play a high line?!

Monto

Ryan

Monto

Honestly can't wait for a change of coach next season, I'm bloody over talayball.

Talay has the highest win ratio of any Phoenix coach, despite being not having a home game for two and a half seasons.  Thinking changing the coach will drastically improve things is absolute madness. You know we'll just replace him with Cheify, who does a lot of the tactics anyway.

Well what's the solution then? Cause I'm sick of watching Graham Arnold's leftover tactics week in week out. He lacks any tactical flexibility that would make him a better coach.

Can't really say Talay hasn't been backed either, he's had our most expensive squad ever and has failed to get anything out of it. 

I'm all for change next season, new players, new coach, new ideas. If the Nix just appoint cheify then it just shows a complete lack of ambition that will put fans off even more.

Talay plays a similar system to Arnold but it's not the same, even Kosta said he had to re-learn it because there was a lot more tactical flexibility and formation variations in what Talay plays. I think he should be more flexible, but he's not as rigid as you insinuated - or are you forgetting we played with a back three last game.

The issue is with the teams mentality, the skills are there but they crumble under pressure.

20230410_195641.jpg 2.41 MB

"I want to know how you missed yet another sitter?"......."And I want to know how you scored yet another double?"

LG

20230410_195641.jpg 2.41 MB

"I want to know how you missed yet another sitter?"......."And I want to know how you scored yet another double?"

Just doing what they’ve practiced their whole career!

I think questions need to be asked of everyone at the club from management to players to coaches. While the Wellnix put in the money which we should all be grateful for them, what exactly has David Dome accomplished while being in the role? Crowds have dwindled for various reasons, it’s his job to try and help promote and grow community engagement. What about Gill? He’s in charge of recruiting? While Zawada has been a success, we can’t say Kraev Sasse and wotton have been (while giving Wotton and a 34 year old David ball long contract extensions). Where is Talay at? Is he going? Or leaving? He has seemed like a frustrated person this whole year, and the players, why is Rufer captain when he gets taken off when we are chasing a game? Idk, the whole club seems apathetic and not interested, and it’s seen in performances. I think a lack of scrutiny is a big issue here, being the only NZ club in a sport that is small, means the club can get away with it. 17 years we’ve been around, not once have we looked like making a grand final let alone winning titles, meanwhile western united, who we often accuse as fake and not worth the leagues time, have won the league and their girls team made the semi final on their first year. Why? I might be upset and frustrated after being at the game, but this isn’t good enough 

Sometimes you just want to vent...but man were we bad today. I don't care if the first half was tight. You still went into the sheds one goal behind when you could have been 2 up.
Then we scored and all hell broke  loose. How does that happen all the time?! 
Rufer was caught into possession more times than a 3 year old picks her nose. Both full back were chasing shadows. Kraev couldn't buy a good first touch. Ball did lots of running but was ineffective. Sasse...I just can't put my finger on it. He's...."underbaked"?? Like he has all of the ingredients of a good player but the end result is just disappointing. Sail made a great save but he just isn't his usual self anymore. Barba came on and missed the easiest of 1 on 1s. Then disappeared from the game.
How on earth he has won 4 A league titles I'll never know...Laws was as useful as a rode cone (even before the red card).
The only two players who had a half decent match were Zawasa and Urgakovic, and even then they didn't set the world on fire...
And then there's Uffie. I've been behind him, always. But I'm starting to think he's the right coach if you want your team to play with a "fighting mentality". But not so much of you want a "winning" one. So many points dropped from a winning position, and our inability to truly believe in ourselves. He's arguably worked with the best Nix squads ever and the results have just not materialised. Maybe it is time for change after all. I don't know...if this is the best we can produce, losing to last placed MVC twice in a season and getting trumped each time we play a good team, we should seriously wonder where we're heading.

I don’t think our problems are tactical! We went toe to toe with Adelaide at Hindmarsh and here we were ahead on the first half. 

The problem is our motivation, our belief and our finishing. Our ability to dominate a game and then put it away. 

We need a Sigmund, a Taylor, a Tim Brown or Manny Muscat…players who can see a path to victory in the direst of situations, and counter punch and score late goals. Think Ben Waine was on the way…

If the coach wants to be playing more dynamically and the former captain wants us to park the bus that’s fairly tragic…

Elliot’s goal line clearance should have seen everyone race to him, give him a pat on the back, cheer, pick up the gauntlet. That’s not a tactical issue.

martinb

I don’t think our problems are tactical! We went toe to toe with Adelaide at Hindmarsh and here we were ahead on the first half. 

The problem is our motivation, our belief and our finishing. Our ability to dominate a game and then put it away. 

We need a Sigmund, a Taylor, a Tim Brown or Manny Muscat…players who can see a path to victory in the direst of situations, and counter punch and score late goals. Think Ben Waine was on the way…

If the coach wants to be playing more dynamically and the former captain wants us to park the bus that’s fairly tragic…

Elliot’s goal line clearance should have seen everyone race to him, give him a pat on the back, cheer, pick up the gauntlet. That’s not a tactical issue.

Totally agree. We don't look like a bad team until we go ahead or get back in the game and its like a switch just flicks and we're all over the place. We've scored in every game, have been in the lead for most of the games this season and we've wasted so many good chances recently while in the ascendency and those big chances don't come out of nothing.

We're really missing a proper leader *on the pitch* who can pick the team up and push them forward when momentum or luck goes against us. The mentality of the team is just so damn fragile and while that's partially Uffie's fault, it's also the players; the starting 11 today defintely showed that we have the individual talent to be well up the table but as a team we just keep falling apart.

martinb

I don’t think our problems are tactical! We went toe to toe with Adelaide at Hindmarsh and here we were ahead on the first half. 

The problem is our motivation, our belief and our finishing. Our ability to dominate a game and then put it away. 

We need a Sigmund, a Taylor, a Tim Brown or Manny Muscat…players who can see a path to victory in the direst of situations, and counter punch and score late goals. Think Ben Waine was on the way…

If the coach wants to be playing more dynamically and the former captain wants us to park the bus that’s fairly tragic…

Elliot’s goal line clearance should have seen everyone race to him, give him a pat on the back, cheer, pick up the gauntlet. That’s not a tactical issue.

I agree with your point that players should take a big chunk of responsibility. But the point remains that we play the same way every single time and we are undone so easily. That's tactical. We went toe to toe with Adelaide...and yet that turned into a hiding. 
Also, coaching isn't just about tactics. There is psychology, man management, goal setting involved as well and that's another area the coaching staff have to answer for in my view. I think this seals it. Thanks for what you have done but it'  time for change.

Have two players do bare knuckle boxing before the game so we go into the game with one lucky head bandage?

Spit balling here.  

To be fair, it's not hard to see why the mentality drops after we go a head. Talay subs like it's the last ten minutes of an international friendly and piles on a third centreback in a league game we are winning 1-0 with 30 mins to go. The mentality is ingrained from the top down. Once we go down there is no plan b and once we start subbing there appears to be no real strategy or plan either. Seems like subbing for the sake of it.

Also, of course Talay has the highest win rate, he has had the best nix squads ever. I bought fifa 21 for my PS5 the other day (it's not in the catalogue of games you get with the PS5 sub service). The nix squad is stacked, it's a title winning squad. Covid aside the six should have been the bare minimum. Devlin, Taylor, hemid, piscopo and davilla all in great form. What a lineup. It seems like it would be hard to lose with that core and even harder to not make the top 6. Any other team would have sacked their boss - I also don't think being in aus was the big disadvantage it got played off to be - less travel and more attractive living situation for players. 

Nommag

To be fair, it's not hard to see why the mentality drops after we go a head. Talay subs like it's the last ten minutes of an international friendly and piles on a third centreback in a league game we are winning 1-0 with 30 mins to go. The mentality is ingrained from the top down. Once we go down there is no plan b and once we start subbing there appears to be no real strategy or plan either. Seems like subbing for the sake of it.

Also, of course Talay has the highest win rate, he has had the best nix squads ever. I bought fifa 21 for my PS5 the other day (it's not in the catalogue of games you get with the PS5 sub service). The nix squad is stacked, it's a title winning squad. Covid aside the six should have been the bare minimum. Devlin, Taylor, hemid, piscopo and davilla all in great form. What a lineup. It seems like it would be hard to lose with that core and even harder to not make the top 6. Any other team would have sacked their boss - I also don't think being in aus was the big disadvantage it got played off to be - less travel and more attractive living situation for players. 

To be fair, while we had some decent players as you mentioned we did make top 6. But where it's lacking is what's on the bench to come on and make a difference. No depth there and once 1st choice gets injured we throw some kid on the pitch. You need some depth to win things.

What shame, another loss. Not hopeful even if we make top 6... It's been the story under UT sadly. Out on a whimper

Also, isn't his winning rate like 42%? Hardly one for the record books. Ricky was a man from another age and had a pretty terribile squad overall, and when he had a decent one, almost took us to the final.
Ernie didn't deliver (but the club was a bit of a shambles), Darje shouldn't have been appointed - the biggest mistake the club has ever made. Rudan gave us belief in ourselves like no one ever did before. Shame he was borderline psychotic and very unprofessional. 

Uffie gave us continuity and steered us during the difficult covid period. His recruitment and ability to bring in young talent were second to none. He had us play well at times. But never when it really mattered it feels (finals football included).
I can't read the future but I'd be surprised if he was here next year. 

I wouldn't fully be against us signing Chiefy, but I'd have serious questions around what his game plan will be and how he would go about diversifying formations and tactics. 

Nommag

We are playing like a team where players are leaving next season, the manager is done and leaving and everyone just wants the season to end so they can have a break and join their new clubs. What a shambles. Shark turned bad for us as soon as they started announcing all those players leaving.

Agree, this seems to happen to us all the time now.

Pathetic isn't it. So we get the blues against the blues.
And they wonder why noone watches?
All common sense has been lost when creating an attractive spectacle.
With that an the increasingly annoying moving adverts, I'm out. Don't watch that crap.

The club employs 2 sports psychologists, so what do they actually do and when will they start doing it? It hasn't worked thus far.

We definitely outplayed them in the first half, was pretty impressed with our quick short accurate passing from the back into space with one-two's etc, gave us very good momentum going forward, want to see a lot more of that stuff in the future... the first goal they got come through really pathetic defending, it was like our defenders were glued to the bloody ground.

Both Zawada & Barbarouses butchered scoring opportunities with only the keeper to beat, thought it was a joke we didn't get a penalty in that match too -  but in the end the game was lost through our appallingly crap defending in the 2nd half, that was well before we had a player red carded... as mentioned before very difficult to stay competitive in any match if your defence is going to leak like a sieve.
   

LG

The club employs 2 sports psychologists, so what do they actually do and when will they start doing it? It hasn't worked thus far.

When it really comes down to it, it's about each individual wanting to focus on doing their role well, giving it 100% ...if they don't the coach should drop them & bring someone else in instead. 

InsulinMachine

Nommag

To be fair, it's not hard to see why the mentality drops after we go a head. Talay subs like it's the last ten minutes of an international friendly and piles on a third centreback in a league game we are winning 1-0 with 30 mins to go. The mentality is ingrained from the top down. Once we go down there is no plan b and once we start subbing there appears to be no real strategy or plan either. Seems like subbing for the sake of it.

Also, of course Talay has the highest win rate, he has had the best nix squads ever. I bought fifa 21 for my PS5 the other day (it's not in the catalogue of games you get with the PS5 sub service). The nix squad is stacked, it's a title winning squad. Covid aside the six should have been the bare minimum. Devlin, Taylor, hemid, piscopo and davilla all in great form. What a lineup. It seems like it would be hard to lose with that core and even harder to not make the top 6. Any other team would have sacked their boss - I also don't think being in aus was the big disadvantage it got played off to be - less travel and more attractive living situation for players. 

To be fair, while we had some decent players as you mentioned we did make top 6. But where it's lacking is what's on the bench to come on and make a difference. No depth there and once 1st choice gets injured we throw some kid on the pitch. You need some depth to win things.

What shame, another loss. Not hopeful even if we make top 6... It's been the story under UT sadly. Out on a whimper

Yeah, having good depth on the bench is a big advantage, if you can bring on quality players they're going to add real impact to your game & can improve your chances of winning matches as well... as you say it's looking a bit dicey whether we can make the top 6, and for me UT lacks insight, as we continue to keep making the same mistakes.

We have lots of guys who are only borderline (or less) A-League level 'attacking' players: Sasse, Kosta, Ball, Old;  none of them really score goals. Kraev seems to be degressing back to their level too. 

We sold Waine but never replaced him. He would score the sitters (and more) that Kosta misses. Behind Zawada he was the only guy in the squad (maybe Kraev) who could consistently score. Van Hattam coming on as the impact striker is just depressing, and he's signed through to 2025.

An aging Wootton and Ball taking up 2 visa slots means we aren't likely to make lots of big signings to improve next year. Lewis is our best midfielder and he's off to McArthur. Payne is only 29 but has been looking sluggish (and good for an error or two each match) for the last year, and he's only going to get slower.

We are still mid table and a chance of making the six, but the concerning part is we are rapidly getting worse rather than peaking... losing Australians or imports to other A-League clubs is bad enough (no issue with guys leaving to bigger overseas clubs, like Waine) but when you can't even keep NZ guys like Lewis and Sail who are off to the Bulls and Perth it's looking very grim.

There also aren't any young players coming through (or at least they aren't given a chance by Talay). For a club with an academy and a good recent history of developing players (Waine, Cacace, Singh) that is concerning, we don't seem to have anyone coming through who looks up to standard? Sutton and Old (admittedly carrying an injury) haven't improved on last year, and Surman has hardly been seen. Mauragis has had minutes but he's only on a loan from a rival for this season.

I avoided the forum last ngiht because I knew this thread would be full of haters and woe merchants, so I waiting until this morning when I had recovered from that horrorfest. 
Foirstly - WTF were the league thinking, scheduling another game an AMI park after several other codes had used in over the last  days! Insane - the ptich was aweful and not up to standard - certainly was a factor in many errors and the red card incident.
Early on I thought we were doing ok, until the first display of how not to tackle. It was almost as if we were too scared to make any contact in the box so we let Mclaren stroll passed us. Aweful - Wootten can't be abck in the squad soon enough.
Even one down we looked like grabbing one back - and we doid from some decent passing and movement and a decent strike from Ugarkovic!
After that we looked all at sea, woeful defending from all four at the back, elliot and sutto too far forward leaving Payne and Laws under strength and easily overloaded. 
Payne /Laws combo is not solid enough for a CB pairing. Next week I'd rather see Wootten and Boxall.

But let's remember City are the top side and like all Melbourne teams at AMI they get the refs favour and can do no wrong - I thought we were a good chance of at least one penalty shout on Zawada.

Could have been different if Kosta brought any of his non-nix shooting form with him when he came back - but he never does - sadly he'll be remembered as a "what could have been player".

Flush it - move on to Roar in Auckland!

InsulinMachine

Nommag

To be fair, it's not hard to see why the mentality drops after we go a head. Talay subs like it's the last ten minutes of an international friendly and piles on a third centreback in a league game we are winning 1-0 with 30 mins to go. The mentality is ingrained from the top down. Once we go down there is no plan b and once we start subbing there appears to be no real strategy or plan either. Seems like subbing for the sake of it.

Also, of course Talay has the highest win rate, he has had the best nix squads ever. I bought fifa 21 for my PS5 the other day (it's not in the catalogue of games you get with the PS5 sub service). The nix squad is stacked, it's a title winning squad. Covid aside the six should have been the bare minimum. Devlin, Taylor, hemid, piscopo and davilla all in great form. What a lineup. It seems like it would be hard to lose with that core and even harder to not make the top 6. Any other team would have sacked their boss - I also don't think being in aus was the big disadvantage it got played off to be - less travel and more attractive living situation for players. 

To be fair, while we had some decent players as you mentioned we did make top 6. But where it's lacking is what's on the bench to come on and make a difference. No depth there and once 1st choice gets injured we throw some kid on the pitch. You need some depth to win things.

What shame, another loss. Not hopeful even if we make top 6... It's been the story under UT sadly. Out on a whimper

We didnt make the top 6 20-21 season, we came 7th. I remember because we had that dead rubber last game against macarthur we beat them like 3-0 but we could have won 7-0 and we were just ripping them apart for fun and macarthur were in the top 6. 

Man a few weeks ago I was wondering if we would be in the top 2.

Now I'm hoping we stay in the 6.  How quickly shark can change.

Bananas

Man a few weeks ago I was wondering if we would be in the top 2.

Now I'm hoping we stay in the 6.  How quickly shark can change.

Six points from the last three is an absolute must. Brisbane, Wanderers and MacArthur. Two pretty sharke teams, if we don't beat them we don't deserve anything

Jazzy Jeff

Bananas

Man a few weeks ago I was wondering if we would be in the top 2.

Now I'm hoping we stay in the 6.  How quickly shark can change.

Six points from the last three is an absolute must. Brisbane, Wanderers and MacArthur. Two pretty sharke teams, if we don't beat them we don't deserve anything

The sharke level hasn't really come into play though (see Victory). I hope the club gets their shark together and are ready for this battle. Not even whimpering across the line at the mo. Keep remembering back to the away game at victory and seeing their fans saying we wouldn't make finals...I laughed it off at the time.

For me, we never fixed our defensive problems from last year. 

We have dropped a lot of points this year too.

Decent team but i think our table position is fair.

As rubbish as we were last night we will be top 6, Brisbane and Macurther are dire. But i cannot see us going too far after that but stranger things have happened in the a-league.

Have the players stopped playing for Talay? Easy for Sail to disagree with Talay in his comments because he's leaving but what about the rest? gees the body language is poor at best.