WPM R6 vs Western United 🐍 | Sun 13th Nov | 3:00pm | RoF/SS7

This team is crying out for a Siggy. No one has any fight in them, defence is cooked, we look a lot like the team who couldn’t come back from conceding again.

Bring in a new CB in January, give the boys a fudgeing grilling and teach them how to show some damn heart.

It feels like we needed Waine in the first half when we kept doing those half breaks.

We made good opportunities but seemed to take 1 touch too many every time, well except for 2 times.

They had already started to shift the momentum but it seemed like the headbutt on Ball really killed what was left of our momentum/confidence.

Rough day in the office & a painful lesson learnt, take your chances or team that have championship players (which they do), will eventually come and punish you. To me, what’s most disappointing, and seemed to be an issue all year is the moments team put us under pressure, we tend to crack. It happened when Adelaide threw caution into the wind last 10 minutes, happened vs Mariners when they decided to attack us for a period of 25 minutes, happened first half against the Jets and happened today after their first goal.. When the going gets tough, there is no player to grab the game by the neck and get us out of a slump. We play our best when we are winning comfortably like last week or when we are down and chase the game… the moment an ounce of pressure or heat comes on, out fragile defence falls.. how easy was their second goal?!  Unsure how to train or fix it, but a lack of leaders on the field is quite apparent. 

Lots of harsh words, but we ran ourselves out in the first half, but didn’t get any defense or midfield reinforcements. We absolutely dominated, stop the fight dominated. But yeh…

martinb

Lots of harsh words, but we ran ourselves out in the first half, but didn’t get any defense or midfield reinforcements. We absolutely dominated, stop the fight dominated. But yeh…

Pennington had an excellent game away to City. Hasn’t had a look in since then. Pennington for Lewis later on might have been a good option. Kosta and Zawarda both off far too early - they were making great runs and doing the hard yards. 

For me the decision to let Kosta take the penalty was based on sentiment(what should have been his 80th goal) and not based on the hard reality that a captain with experience would have made.
This started the slide.
It was strange that Uffie changed the side when at that stage the great tactics of the first half needed to continue.Bringing on these players completely changed our approach and we suffered for  it.

Yea feels like Waine or Ball should have been brought on to enhance the awesome we were doing as opposed to totally changing our attack.  That being said it worked well last week so I get why we did it.

For me, the 5,200 crowd was more disappointing than the result..

Ninja

For me, the 5,200 crowd was more disappointing than the result..

After last week's result I was really hoping the crowd would turn up.

When the weather was shark I thought it'd be low, but then it cleared up and still no luck.

The time may have backfired a little, but also they increased prices don't help.  Not judging the nix for either because they are a) trying something new and b) they gotta charge what they gotta charge.

It'd just be nice if the city would get behind the team.  Shark or no, it's our team and we gotta be there for them.

Edit: but also to be fair the the cost of living crisis is real.  Honestly if I didn't have season passes I would be potentially struggling to justify the price.

Just had a message from a friend who says they paid $42.50 to get in today. They say Ticketek continually timed out on them, over last two days,  and they decided to pay at the gate. Hence the $42.50.

I'm not up to speed on this but anyone else heard same or similar? 🤔🤔

Ben Old’s hold up play was good. Often pressed by 2,3, 4 opponents, held possession and got a good pass off. 

Just got home and watched the replay. We have some potential up front but defensively absolute shark. I wasn't confident about this team from day one and they're proving me right. Losing at home, after being 2 nil up against a winless side says it all really. It'll be ups and downs this season but in the end we will once again be a fair way off the top

Annoying it ended the way it did but the team dominated for most of the game. I think we were just gassed and the blame should go just as much to Talay for not emptying his bench as to the players.

As far as the low crowd, my theory this whole way through has been that 3 oclock kick off is a terrible idea because people are busy doing other things. 

I'd say ONE of the problems re the crowds, is the team currently lacks a star quality X factor import, to add a few to the gate. Of recent times, no Hooper, Taylor, Hemed (all ex EPL) or Davila who went on to be a genuine Nix star. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130418034/wellington-phoenix-stunned-by-western-uniteds-late-show-in-32-aleague-loss

Just finished watching the game. What an awful ending. We controlled the first hour, but then lost our drive. Midfield needed Pennington subbed on for Lewis. Zawada was doing well, should have taken the pen and stayed on longer. 
Not sure what Uffie was doing with Payne. Going to sub him on, blew up when the ref didn't let him, then didn't sub him on anyway when he could have.
Sail should have known Diamanti would go for the near post.
Ouch!  

Uffie says he wanted to make a sub, but the referee’s coms we’re not working. Same problem with his yellow cards for Risdon for the first 60 minutes…

But yes- I don’t wanna say school boy marking errors because the defenders I played with at school could mark a player in the box. Running and technique was marginal, but they could get between a player and the goal. Simple flick on 4 players watching an unmarked Tratt and then Sutton goes the post instead of contesting against the big lad. 

Honestly reflecting on the game it was a shark ending and we can't afford to do that too many times this season but we played really well that first half and maybe with the pen it would've been an easy win and we would've been very happy going into the break. I think this side has a lot of potential and will come good. I wonder if a CB signing is on the cards in the break or in Jan. I'd like to see Surman given a run tbh he is young but he has the height we need in the back and if he's allowed to grow into his role we might see some defensive improvements as right now I don't trust Laws, Payne or Wootton.

I feel like it's becoming a bit of a pattern that having too many quality attacking players in the squad are driving Taley to make attacking subs at the 50-60min mark, it's subs driven by competition and player game time rather than driven by whats needed at that moment of the game...sure it worked for City and Macarthur but in those games we were pushing for goals...For this game, when we were 2:0 up, we should have kept Zawada on, sub on payne and pennington to solidify the defence as you can see our midfielders and defenders are gasses and struggling, 2 strikers wasn't the right choice.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130463401/wellington-phoenix-coach-blows-up-over-denied-substitution

Wellington Phoenix coach Ufuk Talay has blown up over an alleged communications breakdown between match officials, believing it contributed to their 3-2 meltdown against Western United.

The Phoenix blew a two-goal lead to lose to the reigning A-League Men champions in extraordinary circumstances at Sky Stadium on Sunday after former Italian international Alessandro Diamanti sealed a stunning comeback for Western by scoring off a 95th minute free-kick.

Talay was particularly frustrated by what transpired in the lead up to Western's second goal, scored by Aleksandar Prijovic in the 84th minute.

He claimed the Phoenix were denied the chance to make a substitution when leading 2-1 as the fourth official was unable to get through to referee Tim Danaskos when Western were awarded a free-kick in their own box.

Defender Tim Payne was stripped and ready to come on, but Talay said the fourth official told him the referee's communications system was not working and he could not hear the substitution request.

However, a spokesperson for the A-Leagues said the communications system was operational, Danaskos was just tied up “managing players”. Western took the free-kick quickly and the referee waved play on.

Talay said he wanted to bring on an extra defensive player so the Phoenix could “shut up shop” and try to hang onto their lead which had just been cut in half after Jacob Tratt pulled a goal back for Western in the 65th minute.

But Payne never made it on the field as Western took the free-kick quickly, went down the other end of the pitch and scored after replacement striker Prijovic got his head on the end of a pinpoint cross from Ben Garuccio.

“Just before the second goal we wanted to make a substitution,” Talay said.

“The officials’ comms weren’t working for some reason so the fourth official couldn’t get his information across.

“We wanted to bring on Tim Payne to shut up shop but when we couldn’t make the substitution we conceded straight after there was a foul for Western.

“It’s disappointing at this level that we have to deal with these types of things.

“I think he tried to flag the linesman down as well to get the information across.

“In my opinion, at this level we play at, I don’t think that’s good enough.

Ryan

Annoying it ended the way it did but the team dominated for most of the game. I think we were just gassed and the blame should go just as much to Talay for not emptying his bench as to the players.

As far as the low crowd, my theory this whole way through has been that 3 oclock kick off is a terrible idea because people are busy doing other things. 

That was certainly the case for me. Had a half marathon to run and by the time I'd recovered there was no way I was going into welly. Also the UFC being on might have been a factor.

you can't balme the kick off time for poor crowds - especially when there are so  many other obvios reasons for fewer people turning up - a lack of spare cash is one.
The timing of the games is an attempt to be gfamily friendly, they'll have avoided Saturdays as that when most sports are played. The club wwould have demanded this period of home games at a decent time for us - and the league kinda had to give it to us given the lack of home games over the last two years. Non-fans arent coming cos it cost $60+ for a family to get in, plus parking $10 in the city $35 at the stadium. Add food etc to that and it's not a cheap excercise for an afternoon outing.

coochiee

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130463401/wellington-phoenix-coach-blows-up-over-denied-substitution

Wellington Phoenix coach Ufuk Talay has blown up over an alleged communications breakdown between match officials, believing it contributed to their 3-2 meltdown against Western United.

The Phoenix blew a two-goal lead to lose to the reigning A-League Men champions in extraordinary circumstances at Sky Stadium on Sunday after former Italian international Alessandro Diamanti sealed a stunning comeback for Western by scoring off a 95th minute free-kick.

Talay was particularly frustrated by what transpired in the lead up to Western's second goal, scored by Aleksandar Prijovic in the 84th minute.

He claimed the Phoenix were denied the chance to make a substitution when leading 2-1 as the fourth official was unable to get through to referee Tim Danaskos when Western were awarded a free-kick in their own box.

Defender Tim Payne was stripped and ready to come on, but Talay said the fourth official told him the referee's communications system was not working and he could not hear the substitution request.

However, a spokesperson for the A-Leagues said the communications system was operational, Danaskos was just tied up “managing players”. Western took the free-kick quickly and the referee waved play on.

Talay said he wanted to bring on an extra defensive player so the Phoenix could “shut up shop” and try to hang onto their lead which had just been cut in half after Jacob Tratt pulled a goal back for Western in the 65th minute.

But Payne never made it on the field as Western took the free-kick quickly, went down the other end of the pitch and scored after replacement striker Prijovic got his head on the end of a pinpoint cross from Ben Garuccio.

“Just before the second goal we wanted to make a substitution,” Talay said.

“The officials’ comms weren’t working for some reason so the fourth official couldn’t get his information across.

“We wanted to bring on Tim Payne to shut up shop but when we couldn’t make the substitution we conceded straight after there was a foul for Western.

“It’s disappointing at this level that we have to deal with these types of things.

“I think he tried to flag the linesman down as well to get the information across.

“In my opinion, at this level we play at, I don’t think that’s good enough.

lol. I don’t think not being able to bring Tim Payne on for 5 minutes was the reason for such a diabolical loss. 

YouCanCallMeAl

coochiee

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130463401/wellington-phoenix-coach-blows-up-over-denied-substitution

Wellington Phoenix coach Ufuk Talay has blown up over an alleged communications breakdown between match officials, believing it contributed to their 3-2 meltdown against Western United.

The Phoenix blew a two-goal lead to lose to the reigning A-League Men champions in extraordinary circumstances at Sky Stadium on Sunday after former Italian international Alessandro Diamanti sealed a stunning comeback for Western by scoring off a 95th minute free-kick.

Talay was particularly frustrated by what transpired in the lead up to Western's second goal, scored by Aleksandar Prijovic in the 84th minute.

He claimed the Phoenix were denied the chance to make a substitution when leading 2-1 as the fourth official was unable to get through to referee Tim Danaskos when Western were awarded a free-kick in their own box.

Defender Tim Payne was stripped and ready to come on, but Talay said the fourth official told him the referee's communications system was not working and he could not hear the substitution request.

However, a spokesperson for the A-Leagues said the communications system was operational, Danaskos was just tied up “managing players”. Western took the free-kick quickly and the referee waved play on.

Talay said he wanted to bring on an extra defensive player so the Phoenix could “shut up shop” and try to hang onto their lead which had just been cut in half after Jacob Tratt pulled a goal back for Western in the 65th minute.

But Payne never made it on the field as Western took the free-kick quickly, went down the other end of the pitch and scored after replacement striker Prijovic got his head on the end of a pinpoint cross from Ben Garuccio.

“Just before the second goal we wanted to make a substitution,” Talay said.

“The officials’ comms weren’t working for some reason so the fourth official couldn’t get his information across.

“We wanted to bring on Tim Payne to shut up shop but when we couldn’t make the substitution we conceded straight after there was a foul for Western.

“It’s disappointing at this level that we have to deal with these types of things.

“I think he tried to flag the linesman down as well to get the information across.

“In my opinion, at this level we play at, I don’t think that’s good enough.

lol. I don’t think not being able to bring Tim Payne on for 5 minutes was the reason for such a diabolical loss. 

The tide had long since turned. I don't feel any better today. Absolute sharke end to the game.

theprof

you can't balme the kick off time for poor crowds - especially when there are so  many other obvios reasons for fewer people turning up - a lack of spare cash is one.
The timing of the games is an attempt to be gfamily friendly, they'll have avoided Saturdays as that when most sports are played. The club wwould have demanded this period of home games at a decent time for us - and the league kinda had to give it to us given the lack of home games over the last two years. Non-fans arent coming cos it cost $60+ for a family to get in, plus parking $10 in the city $35 at the stadium. Add food etc to that and it's not a cheap excercise for an afternoon outing.

I can blame it, because I'm struggling to get to the games because of it. Admittedly it's a sample of one.

But, town was packed on Sunday night, so a lot of people would have been watching the fight and people would have been in Auckland for the rugby.

Ryan

theprof

you can't balme the kick off time for poor crowds - especially when there are so  many other obvios reasons for fewer people turning up - a lack of spare cash is one.
The timing of the games is an attempt to be gfamily friendly, they'll have avoided Saturdays as that when most sports are played. The club wwould have demanded this period of home games at a decent time for us - and the league kinda had to give it to us given the lack of home games over the last two years. Non-fans arent coming cos it cost $60+ for a family to get in, plus parking $10 in the city $35 at the stadium. Add food etc to that and it's not a cheap excercise for an afternoon outing.

I can blame it, because I'm struggling to get to the games because of it. Admittedly it's a sample of one.

But, town was packed on Sunday night, so a lot of people would have been watching the fight and people would have been in Auckland for the rugby.

fine, so for you, 3pm on Sunday is difficult. 5pm on a Sunday for me was horrific - although given I play summer leaguie footy on Sunday, racing home from J'ville at 1pm to get to the stadium by three is tough, but dooable. Everyone has something on that either clashes with or makes it tough to get somewhere at anytime. 

You could argue any part of the weekend is difficult for different people. Friday night doesn’t work to well for young families, Saturdays clash with people’s sports, Sunday it’s either too early like this case or too late.. truth of the matter is, is that those who want to show up will make an effort too and there are others who have other commitments and that’s fine, the question is here is how to get the casual fans, those who showed up to the come back gsme and will no doubt go to a home finals game (If nix are good enough to make it)..  

Ryan

theprof

you can't balme the kick off time for poor crowds - especially when there are so  many other obvios reasons for fewer people turning up - a lack of spare cash is one.
The timing of the games is an attempt to be gfamily friendly, they'll have avoided Saturdays as that when most sports are played. The club wwould have demanded this period of home games at a decent time for us - and the league kinda had to give it to us given the lack of home games over the last two years. Non-fans arent coming cos it cost $60+ for a family to get in, plus parking $10 in the city $35 at the stadium. Add food etc to that and it's not a cheap excercise for an afternoon outing.

I can blame it, because I'm struggling to get to the games because of it. Admittedly it's a sample of one.

But, town was packed on Sunday night, so a lot of people would have been watching the fight and people would have been in Auckland for the rugby.

Sure, and they're doing it to attract a new audience which means that some of their older audience is going to find it harder (and there's a few people on this forum who've said they can't make it because it conflicts with work or other priorities.

But, also, when attracting a walk up crowd, on a sunny afternoon they're competing with the beach, and parks, and barbecues, in addition to other commitments like sports and work.

You need a combo of things to occur to get the casual fans to come!
The event, in totality, needs to be better than whatever they are already doing. 
Is the sport/team worth watching? maybe? Are there enough other things going on at the stadium to attract people - a chance to win something for nothing, Spark and Oppo are doing some stuff - but there doesnt seem to be a lot else.

Is the weather good, has been the last 3 home games - and the crowds have gotten smaller.

Is the event affordable? ticket prices arent that bad compared to other sports, food at the stadium is what it is, parking prices are awful, rugby gets better from the stadium.

Short answer is - who the hell knows what the club can do to get bigger crowds, casual attendees are fickle. If the team is not winning then they arent interested, if the weather isnt 23+ sunny then it's too cold, or too hot, or too windy - amyriad of excuses and then even if you're winning, the weather is ok then it'll be the cost.

Still in the top 6 though:

6B5CA7C6-0FF3-4A0A-93AD-B0B164ECAFF9.png 10.76 KB

Yeah, but Dome is back on the club needs 10k to be sustainable wagon. We do very well on a per population basis, but It doesn't matter if we're top if we're not viable.

if the nix arent viable and we getting the the 6th best attendances then the teams below us must also be struggling. By the table abovce only Sydney, Victory and Adelaide would be breaking even?
one of the other issues we have is that we play in the third largest capacity stadium acorss the league.

ClubCityHome groundCapacity
Brisbane Roar | Brisbane | Suncorp Stadium | 52,500
Sydney FC | Sydney | Allianz Stadium | 42,500
Wellington Phoenix | Wellington | Sky Stadium | 36,000
Newcastle Jets | Newcastle | McDonald Jones Stadium | 33,000
Melbourne City | Melbourne | AAMI Park | 30,050
Melbourne Victory | Melbourne | AAMI Park | 30,050
Western United | Melbourne | AAMI Park | 30,050
Western Sydney Wanderers | Sydney | CommBank Stadium | 30,000
Perth Glory | Perth | HBF Park | 20,500
Central Coast Mariners | Gosford | Central Coast Stadium | 20,059
Macarthur FC | Sydney | Campbelltown Stadium | 17,500[3]
Adelaide United | Adelaide | Coopers Stadium | 16,500
Brisbane Roar | Brisbane | Moreton Daily Stadium | 11,500
Western United | Ballarat | Mars Stadium | 11,000
Perth Glory | Perth | Macedonia Park | 5,000

Friar Tuck

Still in the top 6 though:

6B5CA7C6-0FF3-4A0A-93AD-B0B164ECAFF9.png 10.76 KB

This to me is the more telling stat. A great start for a few clubs but overall the rest of the league is struggling. To me the biggest issue is that the league as a whole has gone backwards as a product, far less interest in it than there was five to ten tears ago. I'm not sure what the fix is but hopefully that great sydney crowd helps move things in the right direction.

My own thoughts from the game are that we played within our abilities, but did not capitalise on our early chances and got muscled out overall; that excludes the poor penalty as a separate issue.
Apart from that, I thought that the referee lost effective control of the game at some point.  It is one thing to let the play flow, but it's another thing altogether to let Risdon kick our team off the park before getting a reluctant yellow on 7th infringement, apparently for dissent, rather than for hacking our players.    The inexcusable "sandwich" foul on David Ball by two WU players did not even get us a free kick, let alone a card. Danaskos is inexperienced and should have more support and training on the evidence of this game.
My final thought is that John Aloisi proved yet again that he is a better tactician than Talay, and his last two games against us are a case in point.

Super frustrating game. 

That second half was so scrappy which benefited WU. I can't recall a change in defensive shape or tactics from WU but not sure why, after we completed as many passes as WU did the whole game in the first half alone, we weren't able to try and maintain control on the game. WU personal changes did mean they competed aerially better and won more 2nd phase ball but still we totally just dropped away so much in possession. 

dairyflat

Just had a message from a friend who says they paid $42.50 to get in today. They say Ticketek continually timed out on them, over last two days,  and they decided to pay at the gate. Hence the $42.50.

I'm not up to speed on this but anyone else heard same or similar? 🤔🤔

Yes.. happened on 1st game of season using the round ticket office on the walkway outside stadium.
Specifically asked for "1 adult, cheapest ticket pls".

theprof

You need a combo of things to occur to get the casual fans to come!
The event, in totality, needs to be better than whatever they are already doing. 
Is the sport/team worth watching? maybe? Are there enough other things going on at the stadium to attract people - a chance to win something for nothing, Spark and Oppo are doing some stuff - but there doesnt seem to be a lot else.

Is the weather good, has been the last 3 home games - and the crowds have gotten smaller.

Is the event affordable? ticket prices arent that bad compared to other sports, food at the stadium is what it is, parking prices are awful, rugby gets better from the stadium.

Short answer is - who the hell knows what the club can do to get bigger crowds, casual attendees are fickle. If the team is not winning then they arent interested, if the weather isnt 23+ sunny then it's too cold, or too hot, or too windy - amyriad of excuses and then even if you're winning, the weather is ok then it'll be the cost.

While i agree with most of what you say at $42.50 for a walk up ticket wouldnt call that affordable by any means. i just dont get why The Phoenix/A League/Stadium or whoever it is setting ticket prices insist on charging so dam much. Phoenix claimed they checked out other codes when setting season ticket prices they obviously didnt look at the Hurricanes because they beat  us hands down. Doubt there would be to many families out there who could afford 3 games in a row at the stadium at the over inflated prices being charged and for those saying you dont have to buy food you obviously havnt taken a family out for a day as a treat .   End of the day i think its pretty simple start winning consistently and crowds will increase. But the club has to stop throwing that 10k figure at people when the product your dishing up is below standard because nothing in the past 15 years has shown thats a realistic number. Sure on the ODD occasion but certainly not consistently. 

didnt realise it was $42/50 walk up, it's definately cheaper to buy pre-game. Ticketek has never been helpful to the nix though

theprof

didnt realise it was $42/50 walk up, it's definately cheaper to buy pre-game. Ticketek has never been helpful to the nix though

Not sure why they need to charge more when paying on the day. Also think there will be a few of the casual people who have chosen to buy World Cup tickets over attending a Phoenix game. The Phoenix knew they would have to work really hard to get the fans back after the Covid break would have thought that would mean they would have been easy with ticket prices instead of trying to get as much as they can from a few. 

Monto

Friar Tuck

Still in the top 6 though:

6B5CA7C6-0FF3-4A0A-93AD-B0B164ECAFF9.png 10.76 KB

This to me is the more telling stat. A great start for a few clubs but overall the rest of the league is struggling. To me the biggest issue is that the league as a whole has gone backwards as a product, far less interest in it than there was five to ten tears ago. I'm not sure what the fix is but hopefully that great sydney crowd helps move things in the right direction.

Think there has been more than five to ten tears cried over the years!