not that 4-0 is all the refs fault, we have been woeful on attack. We lack a lot without Reno on the pitch, Old works hard but the rest of the midfield is limited in what they can do. Rufer being subbed is testament to the fact he doesnt have what it takes to lead the team.
We have been woeful all over the park. Ufuk really needs to ring the changes if he wants to get results. Losing 4 games in a row with two of them 4-0 losses is just not good enough.
Arguably Balls worst game in a Nix shirt. Was fully MIA. His shooting was woeful too. He could have had at least one goal today.
Hate to say it but todays game reeked of the final years of the Kingz. Kids running around aimlessly with no senior leadership to guide them.
Its a pity that Rufer is not a patch on Ngata or S. Elliott in the midfield, either as a leader or player as they are the kinds of players we need right now.
Arguably Balls worst game in a Nix shirt. Was fully MIA. His shooting was woeful too. He could have had at least one goal today.
Hate to say it but todays game reeked of the final years of the Kingz. Kids running around aimlessly with no senior leadership to guide them.
Its a pity that Rufer is not a patch on Ngata or S. Elliott in the midfield, either as a leader or player as they are the kinds of players we need right now.
Kingz or the Knights? (or both?)
Agreed Ball had a terrible game. Hard to signal him out though when the rest were also bad; it's just less expected from Ball I guess since he's usually one of the better ones.
Lewis and Rufer was never going to be a good midfield by A-League standards, so sight unseen I had hoped Pennington would improve the midfield... that doesn't seem the case though, not terrible, but like most of the squad seems another just Ok player at best.
With Hooper and Sandoval (and I guess Piscopo) we should be more competitive IF everyone stays fit. But we really need a good midfielder to replace Lewis or Rufer in the starting 11, and a quality central defender too.
Or do we just consolidate, don't spend up large on players. see out the season without going into too much debt. So that Welnix can actually survive. With Omicron it looks like the team will be based in Aus for the entire season. Being based over there for so long. Moral seems low, not surprising at this time of year away from family., its like it is all finally taking its toll having to play every game away. The whole league is in a bit of a shambles with all the cancellations also. Things like Hopper not allowed to travel to this game. Any new signings can't even play for another few weeks. Referee calls continue to favour our opposition. Everything seems to be working against us. Look to next year to rebuild. See which acadamy players can actually step up this year to this level. I'm sure all our imports and off contract players will likely leave after such upheaval. So start a fresh next season. Just hope we can keep Uffie.
Or do we just consolidate, don't spend up large on players. see out the season without going into too much debt. So that Welnix can actually survive. With Omicron it looks like the team will be based in Aus for the entire season. Being based over there for so long. Moral seems low, not surprising at this time of year away from family., its like it is all finally taking its toll having to play every game away. The whole league is in a bit of a shambles with all the cancellations also. Things like Hopper not allowed to travel to this game. Any new signings can't even play for another few weeks. Referee calls continue to favour our opposition. Everything seems to be working against us. Look to next year to rebuild. See which acadamy players can actually step up this year to this level. I'm sure all our imports and off contract players will likely leave after such upheaval. So start a fresh next season. Just hope we can keep Uffie.
Mostly agree. Covid just keeps fudgeing over the club.
But don’t think Ball, Hooper and Sandoval will automatically leave at season end. The 2 UK boys both age 32 plus, may look to do a Greeny and Ifill and set themselves up in NZ post end of their playing careers. Esp Ball. Sandoval who knows
But by season end should be some indication on NZ border rules longer term, and if season 2022/23 could be a normal H&A scenario
not that 4-0 is all the refs fault, we have been woeful on attack. We lack a lot without Reno on the pitch, Old works hard but the rest of the midfield is limited in what they can do. Rufer being subbed is testament to the fact he doesnt have what it takes to lead the team.
Think you are overstating Piscopos contribution so far this season,has been nowhere near as effective as he was last season.
Glad I didn't stay up to watch ladt night. I can't see how they will dig themselves out of this hole from here.
Hopefully they can fill another 2 or 3 positions with quality imports for next year and keep the best of the young guys.
The absence of Taylor, Davila and Hemed show it only takes 2 or 3 key players that can make a team competitive. Here's hoping we can sign some. Same goes for the woman. Its not healthy long term to get beaten 4 or 5 nil every week. Of course Covid has played its part
I watched the game on Saturday night live and was as disappointed at the result as the rest of you. While the club has a hell of a lot of work to do, there as a great deal of short-termism going on in the forum. Welnix has a long term plan and they are thinking and acting in the long term- classic ,Japanese style. They have invested heavily in the Academy, in the Women's team,are enabling the Men's team to live and compete in Oz,and to operate a local Reserve side . I'm sure Uffie re-signed last year believing in the same philosophy as Welnix. He knows it will take 2-3 years or maybe longer to get the group back to a long term,sustainable and competitive position. They are working towards a balance of the experienced and inexperienced players.Let them get on with it and stop moaning. Welnix has and will continue to look for an ownership partner who shares these views who will invest accordingly. That much we know. This supporter is incredibly proud of the achievements of the Club so far in supporting the young players in football. Lets desist from the handwringing and "instant solution"malarkey and concentrate on the positive long term goals. Who says that 3 or 4 visa players will solve all of our problems? Hang in there Welnix ,Management ,Team and Coach . Times are tough for everyone- KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING!
I watched the game on Saturday night live and was as disappointed at the result as the rest of you. While the club has a hell of a lot of work to do, there as a great deal of short-termism going on in the forum. Welnix has a long term plan and they are thinking and acting in the long term- classic ,Japanese style. They have invested heavily in the Academy, in the Women's team,are enabling the Men's team to live and compete in Oz,and to operate a local Reserve side . I'm sure Uffie re-signed last year believing in the same philosophy as Welnix. He knows it will take 2-3 years or maybe longer to get the group back to a long term,sustainable and competitive position. They are working towards a balance of the experienced and inexperienced players.Let them get on with it and stop moaning. Welnix has and will continue to look for an ownership partner who shares these views who will invest accordingly. That much we know. This supporter is incredibly proud of the achievements of the Club so far in supporting the young players in football. Lets desist from the handwringing and "instant solution"malarkey and concentrate on the positive long term goals. Who says that 3 or 4 visa players will solve all of our problems? Hang in there Welnix ,Management ,Team and Coach . Times are tough for everyone- KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING!
There is some truth in the above. Covid has just right royally fudgeed up this season for the Nix, and sadly some possible signs that many of the group are just jack of it all. Big task for Uffy and others to keep the spirits up.
I'm sure the recent Govt announcements about keeping the border shut for longer, were a blow to morale. And it's not just the lack of visa players that's a problem, it' the complete lack of home advantage for half your games, like all the other teams have. Not a level playing field.
But yes one positive spin is that 8 Kiwis started against Adelaide and another 4 came off the bench. Is 12 NZers a record for the Nix re single match involvement?
Some like Rufer you may hope are on their way out, but others like Surman, Old & Van Hattum are Academy products and the future. So yipe a longer term view needs to be taken as to what this likely mehh sharkty season will be all about.
As long as the owners are keeping Uffy happy, and letting him know he will get what he wants within reason for season 2022/23 (presuming normal H&A at last) - medium/long term future is bright.
The Nix know they have a loyal, passionate, game-thirsty bunch of supporters over here, waiting and waiting for a chance to support the team(s) in the flesh. We need to keep reminding them though, in these tough times.
I watched the game on Saturday night live and was as disappointed at the result as the rest of you. While the club has a hell of a lot of work to do, there as a great deal of short-termism going on in the forum. Welnix has a long term plan and they are thinking and acting in the long term- classic ,Japanese style. They have invested heavily in the Academy, in the Women's team,are enabling the Men's team to live and compete in Oz,and to operate a local Reserve side . I'm sure Uffie re-signed last year believing in the same philosophy as Welnix. He knows it will take 2-3 years or maybe longer to get the group back to a long term,sustainable and competitive position. They are working towards a balance of the experienced and inexperienced players.Let them get on with it and stop moaning. Welnix has and will continue to look for an ownership partner who shares these views who will invest accordingly. That much we know. This supporter is incredibly proud of the achievements of the Club so far in supporting the young players in football. Lets desist from the handwringing and "instant solution"malarkey and concentrate on the positive long term goals. Who says that 3 or 4 visa players will solve all of our problems? Hang in there Welnix ,Management ,Team and Coach . Times are tough for everyone- KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING!
Agreed that even from a forum that tends toward pessimistic at the best of times, some of the comments seem a little harsh. The Nix have been royally screwed by Covid at a time when I really believe we probably would have won at least one, if not more trophies had the league been functioning normally. The boys need our support more than ever right now.
Also while its hard to watch a bunch of youngsters get smashed, how good is it to see all this talent coming through - talent that is much better at a younger age than we've ever had before. Even if they're not quite ready to really push experienced a-league teams, these are players with a real future and not just making up numbers. Nothing like the old Kingz/Knights days.
Also it’s not Rufer’s fault if he’s a squad player in the A League, as Sotirio very handily is, but is being asked to captain and lead a midfield and team when he wasn’t ready for that task.
Ok, I've had a few days to digest that piss poor result. 1} Rufer is either not a Captain or being given the captaincy has distracted him from trying to play his own game. Not that that was worth a starting place. Let's be honest, he's been pulled twice at half time. Not a good look for a Captain to have that done to him. Talay must be questioning his probably worst decision yet. 2] Lewis has been just as sharke as Rufer and or they are both too similar. They either cannot get it sorted in midfield between themselves so someone has to do it. Talay needs to either move Lewis much further forward to AM, or drop him or drop Rufer or even drop both. It's just not working. And the forwards are being starved of ball through the middle. We should not keep on relying on wingers and crosses. We need to try other moves too. 3] Sotorio has shown in the last 2 weeks that his true level is in the NPL. that is where he scored two goals. In this game he squandered two clear chances. 4] Balls worst game for us. MIA for most part but when he got through on goal, rather than hammering a shot, he side footed passed it to their goalkeeper. WTF?? You have a lot of talent David, back yourself and use it. 5] McGarry, needs to go on "Trade Me " and buy himself a "Right Foot". His single minded left foot play has got him into so much trouble it wasn't funny. 6] Waine - Did he even get the ball? Certainly not from the central midfield. 7] Defence, stop frigging ball watching. Shut the guys down or force them wide. ggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 8] Paulsen, Young fella, you have shown some glimpses of being an excellent keeper and you gave your best. Just get the haircut and you are definitely a player for the future young man. 9] Old. Keep trying, you too, will get there, along with Van Hattum, Waine, Sutton & Paulsen. It's just a shame there is no leadership guiding you young ones into a future on the field. 10] The senior players should be ashamed of their efforts of late. They are not helping themselves or the new squad members with inept efforts of late. The Captain either needs to give them a bolloxing or rev up. But then the Captain also needs to lead by example on the field.
In my opinion, the formation is the problem as teams have worked us out
This formation (4-2-2-2) is also not helping our young Kiwi players that aspire to play internationally as none of our international teams use that formation
Hay prefers 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 (or variations thereof) and will be getting more and more reluctant to call up Phoenix players when they become available in the future because they are not used to either system
In my opinion, the formation is the problem as teams have worked us out
This formation (4-2-2-2) is also not helping our young Kiwi players that aspire to play internationally as none of our international teams use that formation
Hay prefers 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 (or variations thereof) and will be getting more and more reluctant to call up Phoenix players when they become available in the future because they are not used to either system
Either 4-2-2-2 needs to go or Talay needs to go
I am not competent enough to say if 4-2-2-2 is what we should play or not. However, I do not think that "Hay will be reluctant to call up Phoenix players" because they are not used to Hay's preferred system. Hay will call them up if they are available because he needs to win games to get us to the WC, and he will call up players he can get. The AWs simply do not have enough opportunities to play together to have memorised their preferred setup as a second nature. If the clubs the non-Phoenix players are at do not play Hay's favourite lineup, would they also be not selected?
In my opinion, the formation is the problem as teams have worked us out
This formation (4-2-2-2) is also not helping our young Kiwi players that aspire to play internationally as none of our international teams use that formation
Hay prefers 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 (or variations thereof) and will be getting more and more reluctant to call up Phoenix players when they become available in the future because they are not used to either system
Either 4-2-2-2 needs to go or Talay needs to go
I am not competent enough to say if 4-2-2-2 is what we should play or not. However, I do not think that "Hay will be reluctant to call up Phoenix players" because they are not used to Hay's preferred system. Hay will call them up if they are available because he needs to win games to get us to the WC, and he will call up players he can get. The AWs simply do not have enough opportunities to play together to have memorised their preferred setup as a second nature. If the clubs the non-Phoenix players are at do not play Hay's favourite lineup, would they also be not selected?
Exactly. Lewis, Elliott, Old, Paulsen, Sutton & Waine all went to the Olympics under Hay. I've probably missed someone. Payne's known Danny for years. They know how he sets up, and for March OFC tourney Hay will be calling up Nix players for sure.
Covid is the major issue as to why the Nix will struggle this season, not the formation. And crazy to say Talay should go. He's the best coach Nix have had, and hopefully in season 2022/23 will get a chance to show it.
Defensively, the two lines of four often look more like two tangled zig zags.
IMO, the impact of Taylor's departure has been huge. The team is set up to stay tight and soak up pressure without the ball. Without Taylor, only Payne is providing a spine and the structure has become compromised. Payne is truly outstanding, but he's having to do it by himself.
Inexcusably, the defensive work of our wide midfielders is even worse than when we had Davila playing wide right.
yeah it has been Sydney's shape for ages, its were Ufuk learned it isnt it?
Last season we were quite similar in our setup and ability to Sydney FC even if we could not beat them head-on. Could not say the same about our ability so far this season; even if they are not playing to their best potential now (and clearly loss of Brattan to injury is shaping up as a big deal for SFC).
I hadn’t picked up that he played Pennington at RB! Perhaps an indication that only one out of the 3 available midfield options are to be played in midfield at once. I think most of us who watched last year didn’t have high hopes for Lewis and Rufer as a starting pair, but were open to being pleasantly surprised. Will that Pennington sub mean Uffie also is looking at moving Elliot/Fenton to the left? Thought Fenton also dragged by Uffie in a game.
I think Sutton could still be an option there with cover in front of him, given last year.
Think the lack of midfield cover is making life hard for the FBs.
We have a lot of 90s cricketers type bit piece all rounders who haven’t nailed down excellence in one spot.
I hadn’t picked up that he played Pennington at RB! Perhaps an indication that only one out of the 3 available midfield options are to be played in midfield at once. I think most of us who watched last year didn’t have high hopes for Lewis and Rufer as a starting pair, but were open to being pleasantly surprised. Will that Pennington sub mean Uffie also is looking at moving Elliot/Fenton to the left? Thought Fenton also dragged by Uffie in a game.
I think Sutton could still be an option there with cover in front of him, given last year.
Think the lack of midfield cover is making life hard for the FBs.
We have a lot of 90s cricketers type bit piece all rounders who haven’t nailed down excellence in one spot.
I could be wrong, but it was my impression our early replacements were not like for like. I think in the final formation Pennigton played where Rufer was, and Fenton played where Eliot was. Initially I felt that this backfired, but with the benefit of hindsight I do not think we played any worse in the second half, we just did not play any better. The first penalty was marginal (I am not questioning the call) and the second one an unforced error by McGarry - there was no need to do that at all. At worst, this would have ben a 2:0 loss, except we lost our shape after the second penalty (lack of leadership and a young squad, probably). Initially I agreed with others our attack was abysmal on the day. On second thought, I reckon that this is a symptom of the hole left by the loss of Devlin and Davila, and is not going to be fixed until we see how the new Mexican fits in next to Piscopo (and Ball). I am hoping for improvement but not expecting miracles.
I felt we were in it and could have turned it around- especially near that point when Waine got booked. There were good periods where we got control, and even made chances. I thought we’d score next tbh. McGarry had a shocker, but a lot of work to do too. Second half I didn’t watch it all…just checked back at points. Yeh- need a big second shift to the season from our attack- Piscopo, Sandoval and Hooper need to show us their quality and pressure from us takes some off the defense.
Though we actually played with a lot intent in the second half. Seemed to have more desire to look forward and play with a bit of ball speed. Did we play better tho, score line would suggest not.
