WPM R21 vs Adelaide | Fri 17th Mar | 9:45pm | SS7

Maaaaaaatt

martinb

Jazzy Jeff

Van Hattum needs to start showing something. Not just this game, in any

 
We’re competing for the same spot on the table and look at their attacking subs compared to ours. 

It’s why we’re not a top team. We’re creating, but relying on one finisher and Rufer…

Our entire forward line, starters and subs, just don't seem to be up to it with one exception. And we've used 4 import spots on them
Zawada - fantastic
Sasse - one classy moment a game doesn't make up for 20 soft giveaways and brain fades
Kraev - started fantastic but has dropped off a cliff since oska hit form
Ball - I love him, but he's not the player he was the last 3 seasons, time catches up with us all
Kosta - there are two Kosta Babarouses, the one who plays for Australian teams, and the one who plays for us. Unfortunately we have the one who plays for us
Old & Van Hattum - you always hope that academy kids kick on, a lot of them don't, I hope Old and OVH prove me wrong but I don't think they have the quality to play at this level 

Of those how many would have a chance of starting at another top six club? Only Zawada, maybe Kraev could make the bench? 

Oskas quality is papering over the cracks and tonight proved it. 

P. S. I really miss the Waine train 

 Definitely overreliant on Zawada.

Maaaaaaatt

martinb

Jazzy Jeff

Van Hattum needs to start showing something. Not just this game, in any

 
We’re competing for the same spot on the table and look at their attacking subs compared to ours. 

It’s why we’re not a top team. We’re creating, but relying on one finisher and Rufer…

Our entire forward line, starters and subs, just don't seem to be up to it with one exception. And we've used 4 import spots on them
Zawada - fantastic
Sasse - one classy moment a game doesn't make up for 20 soft giveaways and brain fades
Kraev - started fantastic but has dropped off a cliff since oska hit form
Ball - I love him, but he's not the player he was the last 3 seasons, time catches up with us all
Kosta - there are two Kosta Babarouses, the one who plays for Australian teams, and the one who plays for us. Unfortunately we have the one who plays for us
Old & Van Hattum - you always hope that academy kids kick on, a lot of them don't, I hope Old and OVH prove me wrong but I don't think they have the quality to play at this level 

Of those how many would have a chance of starting at another top six club? Only Zawada, maybe Kraev could make the bench? 

Oskas quality is papering over the cracks and tonight proved it. 

P. S. I really miss the Waine train 

I agree with most of this except on Kraev and Old. I thought BK did amazingly tonight with little to no help from the duds around him, had to do everything in the final third. As for Old, he's definitely good enough for this level, absolutely a class above OVH but needs more time. Felt he should've come on for ball at the 70th

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Adelaide have massacred our GD, not a nice sight.

Jazzy Jeff

Maaaaaaatt

martinb

Jazzy Jeff

Van Hattum needs to start showing something. Not just this game, in any

 
We’re competing for the same spot on the table and look at their attacking subs compared to ours. 

It’s why we’re not a top team. We’re creating, but relying on one finisher and Rufer…

Our entire forward line, starters and subs, just don't seem to be up to it with one exception. And we've used 4 import spots on them
Zawada - fantastic
Sasse - one classy moment a game doesn't make up for 20 soft giveaways and brain fades
Kraev - started fantastic but has dropped off a cliff since oska hit form
Ball - I love him, but he's not the player he was the last 3 seasons, time catches up with us all
Kosta - there are two Kosta Babarouses, the one who plays for Australian teams, and the one who plays for us. Unfortunately we have the one who plays for us
Old & Van Hattum - you always hope that academy kids kick on, a lot of them don't, I hope Old and OVH prove me wrong but I don't think they have the quality to play at this level 

Of those how many would have a chance of starting at another top six club? Only Zawada, maybe Kraev could make the bench? 

Oskas quality is papering over the cracks and tonight proved it. 

P. S. I really miss the Waine train 

I agree with most of this except on Kraev and Old. I thought BK did amazingly tonight with little to no help from the duds around him, had to do everything in the final third. As for Old, he's definitely good enough for this level, absolutely a class above OVH but needs more time. Felt he should've come on for ball at the 70th

I hope Van Hattum gets released and we take a punt on Oliver Colloty for next season, he gives me the same vibes as Alex Greive before he made the St Mirren move.

Wow, wasn’t far off from what I suspected (3-0) but 5-1, jeez. There goes the goal difference. Kudos to those who stayed up to watch that monstrosity. Hopefully this is a one off and kicks the team into gear. Not acceptable in any measure if they have top 3/4 ambitions 

Friar Tuck

Jazzy Jeff

Maaaaaaatt

martinb

Jazzy Jeff

Van Hattum needs to start showing something. Not just this game, in any

 
We’re competing for the same spot on the table and look at their attacking subs compared to ours. 

It’s why we’re not a top team. We’re creating, but relying on one finisher and Rufer…

Our entire forward line, starters and subs, just don't seem to be up to it with one exception. And we've used 4 import spots on them
Zawada - fantastic
Sasse - one classy moment a game doesn't make up for 20 soft giveaways and brain fades
Kraev - started fantastic but has dropped off a cliff since oska hit form
Ball - I love him, but he's not the player he was the last 3 seasons, time catches up with us all
Kosta - there are two Kosta Babarouses, the one who plays for Australian teams, and the one who plays for us. Unfortunately we have the one who plays for us
Old & Van Hattum - you always hope that academy kids kick on, a lot of them don't, I hope Old and OVH prove me wrong but I don't think they have the quality to play at this level 

Of those how many would have a chance of starting at another top six club? Only Zawada, maybe Kraev could make the bench? 

Oskas quality is papering over the cracks and tonight proved it. 

P. S. I really miss the Waine train 

I agree with most of this except on Kraev and Old. I thought BK did amazingly tonight with little to no help from the duds around him, had to do everything in the final third. As for Old, he's definitely good enough for this level, absolutely a class above OVH but needs more time. Felt he should've come on for ball at the 70th

I hope Van Hattum gets released and we take a punt on Oliver Colloty for next season, he gives me the same vibes as Alex Greive before he made the St Mirren move.

Van Hattum has two or three more years left on his contract so I don't think he's going to go anywhere. He also has only played 227 minutes in all competitions for one goal - only 122 in the league. He's been perennially behind Ball and Barbarouses in the striker role, both of whom have been disappointing - Ball has one goal from 3.15 xG in 1,337 minutes and Barbarouses has two league goals from 4.22 xG in 1,076 minutes. Instead of pushing Van Hattum out, why not give him a proper opportunity, given it seems he would be hard-pressed to do any worse than what Ball/Barbarouses have done so far. Why not give him a start alongside Zawada who can do the heavy-lifting and draw defenders to take pressure off? There is an argument that if he was better he would play more, but there's a chicken and egg aspect to it all; he'd get better if he played more.

If Colloty was given the same scant opportunities then I doubt there would be much change in fortune.

Just watched the replay now after couldn’t watching last night.. and got to admit, we are kidding ourselves if we didn’t see this score line coming.. over the last few weeks, our ability or should I say Zawadas ability to knick a goal has saved us, and as I have said, and some of you also, the way we were playing is unsustainable, by sitting back, defending deep, hoping sail saves a few and Zawada slots his chances, the moment we play a half decent side who can finish, we got what we deserved. Only one or two of our wins this season have been convincing, and the worrying thing is, this was in the beginning of the season. I am not going to pick on individuals, but a lot of them are clearly not focused and individual mistakes by senior player have costed us all season. In reality, we are a mid table side, and this loss of this nature was coming. Unfortunately I can’t see going far in finals unless something changes, we haven’t proven we can’t beat the top sides and do it consistently, and while it was nice beating a poor western United, when it comes to the top top sides, the ones we are chasing, we have failed every test so far.. or am I overreacting?

I don't want to knock your comments too much, cause we got spanked. But that seems an over-reaction to me. We played a good high paced passing game and created more chances than Adelaide, without Zawada. It was a heck of an entertaining game. Because Adelaide's style is also fast and open. 

The difference was we gifted them a goal from Sail's first blunder. Then the second goal we might have seen Sail come and punch the (excellent) delivery, but he hesitated then flapped. And Barbarouses butchered an open goal and simple pass for a tap in. Plus we hit the post and had multiple near misses. 

It really should have been a 4-2 result (and maybe 3-2, but I think Sail has not been great attacking crosses all year).  Maybe give Adelaide some credit, they're a damn good, quick side in top form who know their game. But they also took every chance they created and on another night that won't happen. 

Plus Zawada, plus Clayton back to full fitness. 

I enjoyed seeing us largely match Adelaide pace and creating so much. We got caught playing catch-up at the end as well. 

Adelaide deserved the win. They made no major mistakes and took every chance. And we were our own worst enemy. But it could very easily have been very different. 

That said, we're prob a notch off the best teams playing at full noise. For accuracy, physical size, pace, power and finishing. But I think we're still a top 4 side and capable of beating the best on our day. 

Our team is good, but the likes of Sail, Wootton, Payne, Sasse and Barbarouses make too many silly mistakes. It’s really annoying because most of the time they all play pretty well, but it takes them all 10 good plays to earn or prevent a goal, but just 1 bad play to blunder or concede a goal.

We need to tidy up our play and convert our chances more consistently if we want to make a real push in these last few games.

I thought Rufer had a good game though, cringe shushing aside. I've been impressed with him coming back, really hitting his stride.

On a different day we would've at least drawn that game, oh well part and pacel of being being Nix fan is suffering the cusp of being a great team.

I do think we need a more reliable center back option though, Wooton has been error prone most of his career and I really think we need a slightly higher quality import option there.

I watched the replay and was hoping the ending might have changed, but it didn't. Same as last night live. Heartbreaking.

Phoenix attack was poor, but the defence was much worse... classic case of when a defence is rubbish you're not going to be competitive in a match.

Barbarouses missed a sitter that glanced off the post, even if he had slotted the ball in the back of the net it should not have been awarded anyway, as Barbarouses smashed the keeper out the way with a shoulder charge.  

Nixieboys222

Just watched the replay now after couldn’t watching last night.. and got to admit, we are kidding ourselves if we didn’t see this score line coming.. over the last few weeks, our ability or should I say Zawadas ability to knick a goal has saved us, and as I have said, and some of you also, the way we were playing is unsustainable, by sitting back, defending deep, hoping sail saves a few and Zawada slots his chances, the moment we play a half decent side who can finish, we got what we deserved. Only one or two of our wins this season have been convincing, and the worrying thing is, this was in the beginning of the season. I am not going to pick on individuals, but a lot of them are clearly not focused and individual mistakes by senior player have costed us all season. In reality, we are a mid table side, and this loss of this nature was coming. Unfortunately I can’t see going far in finals unless something changes, we haven’t proven we can’t beat the top sides and do it consistently, and while it was nice beating a poor western United, when it comes to the top top sides, the ones we are chasing, we have failed every test so far.. or am I overreacting?

Yeah, you could see this score line coming from a mile away - our defence has been a shambles for a fair while... poor finishing & a real lack of focus by individuals, slack passing, so we're giving possession away far too easily etc.

Wouldn't say Zawada is that great as a striker, he looks much better than what he is because our other strikers are pretty useless - if you look at Zawada's real strengths it's his attacking headers on goal, and he's our best option at taking penalties... his touches are ok when he lays the ball off to someone without much pressure applied on him, and his close in dribbling skills to beat players is pretty average.

One of the main roles of a coach are their man management skills, getting the very best out of each individual, so they perform to the best of their ability, then you'll consistently get a good all-round team performance - from what I've seen from this team Talay doesn't seem to have those skills... the Phoenix constantly lacks focus, urgency, and to play in a positive manner, those things are vital to have if you want to try & win any championship.

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Kosta can only play one position; all of his success has come playing wide right in the front three, cutting inside and running towards the goal. He has a very limited technique and his pace has dimished slightly, but his timing and execution is excellent. He could still do this job, however we do not play this way, so he has very little impact for us.  

He has never been able to pass the ball, even five yard passes are often misdirected. I was not surprised to see him miss that chance.  

Ball looks a spent force. He seems to be struggling with balance and control, like his physicals are shot. He produces little that is tangible. I do wonder however if he is actually doing a lot as a foil to enable Zawada. 

I read earlier in this thread that he has another two years left?! Unbelieveable. IMO his role on the pitch needs to reflect his new physical self. Sadly, right now he looks like a masters player trying to play the game like he did when he was 20. It's time for him to ditch the 'runner' role and become a different type of forward.  

adidasbloke

Nixieboys222

Just watched the replay now after couldn’t watching last night.. and got to admit, we are kidding ourselves if we didn’t see this score line coming.. over the last few weeks, our ability or should I say Zawadas ability to knick a goal has saved us, and as I have said, and some of you also, the way we were playing is unsustainable, by sitting back, defending deep, hoping sail saves a few and Zawada slots his chances, the moment we play a half decent side who can finish, we got what we deserved. Only one or two of our wins this season have been convincing, and the worrying thing is, this was in the beginning of the season. I am not going to pick on individuals, but a lot of them are clearly not focused and individual mistakes by senior player have costed us all season. In reality, we are a mid table side, and this loss of this nature was coming. Unfortunately I can’t see going far in finals unless something changes, we haven’t proven we can’t beat the top sides and do it consistently, and while it was nice beating a poor western United, when it comes to the top top sides, the ones we are chasing, we have failed every test so far.. or am I overreacting?

Yeah, you could see this score line coming from a mile away - our defence has been a shambles for a fair while... poor finishing & a real lack of focus by individuals, slack passing, so we're giving possession away far too easily etc.

Wouldn't say Zawada is that great as a striker, he looks much better than what he is because our other strikers are pretty useless - if you look at Zawada's real strengths it's his attacking headers on goal, and he's our best option at taking penalties... his touches are ok when he lays the ball off to someone without much pressure applied on him, and his close in dribbling skills to beat players is pretty average.

One of the main roles of a coach are their man management skills, getting the very best out of each individual, so they perform to the best of their ability, then you'll consistently get a good all-round team performance - from what I've seen from this team Talay doesn't seem to have those skills... the Phoenix constantly lacks focus, urgency, and to play in a positive manner, those things are vital to have if you want to try & win any championship.

 This is hot garbage, Zawada is phenomenal. He could be on half the goals he's scored and he'd still be one of the first names on the team sheet. The amount of times he gets in behind onto a long ball, holds it up and wins us a throw deep in their half or takes it down and lays it off to the wide players is crazy. I suggest watching back games and only watching him, the work he gets through is immense, often thankless (clearly) and is so crucial to getting the team up the pitch when we are penned in by an aggressive press.

Didn't bother listing the defence and midfield, but assuming Uffie leaves and we switch up the formation, could this get the best out of Ball?

Screen Shot 2023-03-19 at 7.46.54 PM.png 416.23 KB

Victory vs CCM game went very well for us points taken off CCM and Cadete and Romero will be suspended against us.

Friar Tuck

Didn't bother listing the defence and midfield, but assuming Uffie leaves and we switch up the formation, could this get the best out of Ball?

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I'd prefer Kraev in the middle - I think we'd get more out of him there

Ball cannot shoot to save himself, so why do we need to keep him in our attack next season?
Can't be denied that he's slowing down, and not able to get around defender like he could. 
But he has a great touch, great passing ability, great reading of the game... why don't the coaching team try him in CM? He probably can't do a full 90 but surely he's still a better option there than Pennington. 
He defends pretty well at RM.

CloneMM

Ball cannot shoot to save himself, so why do we need to keep him in our attack next season?
Can't be denied that he's slowing down, and not able to get around defender like he could. 
But he has a great touch, great passing ability, great reading of the game... why don't the coaching team try him in CM? He probably can't do a full 90 but surely he's still a better option there than Pennington. 
He defends pretty well at RM.

I think if he were going to be tried there (by Uffie) he’d have been used in CM when we were using Gael and Sutts there. 

martinb

CloneMM

Ball cannot shoot to save himself, so why do we need to keep him in our attack next season?
Can't be denied that he's slowing down, and not able to get around defender like he could. 
But he has a great touch, great passing ability, great reading of the game... why don't the coaching team try him in CM? He probably can't do a full 90 but surely he's still a better option there than Pennington. 
He defends pretty well at RM.

I think if he were going to be tried there (by Uffie) he’d have been used in CM when we were using Gael and Sutts there. 

You might be right, but I suspect he was faster then, and moreover spent quite a bit of time injured.

Since his foot/toe injury his speed has dropped a bit, age probably hasnt helped the matter, I like him as an AM, he, Sasses and Kraev all drif centrally from wide ao it may well be a mute point. I dont think we'll see a lot of goals from him if he remains in NZ - he is in the team for his work rate and the disruption he provides at the top when we defend.

Ball is going to be eligible for citizenship next year, so season after next he'll hopefully be a domestic player.

Ryan

Ball is going to be eligible for citizenship next year, so season after next he'll hopefully be a domestic player.

Will he tho? I'm not really sure of the ins and outs of it but he was obviously living in Australia for a bit so would that affect it?

wilbaker

Ryan

Ball is going to be eligible for citizenship next year, so season after next he'll hopefully be a domestic player.

Will he tho? I'm not really sure of the ins and outs of it but he was obviously living in Australia for a bit so would that affect it?

Who knows, this article says he's hopeful: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/128761813/david-ball-wants-to-play-for-all-whites-after-resigning-with-wellington-phoenix

He was a resident the whole time but was based overseas. It will depend on if there's any dispensation because of covid or not.

Ryan

wilbaker

Ryan

Ball is going to be eligible for citizenship next year, so season after next he'll hopefully be a domestic player.

Will he tho? I'm not really sure of the ins and outs of it but he was obviously living in Australia for a bit so would that affect it?

Who knows, this article says he's hopeful: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/128761813/david-ball-wants-to-play-for-all-whites-after-resigning-with-wellington-phoenix

He was a resident the whole time but was based overseas. It will depend on if there's any dispensation because of covid or not.

Quick google search says this "From the day you apply for citizenship, you need to have been physically in New Zealand for most of the time over the last five years"
so he might be fine as he'd spent most of his time in NZ. 

Even with him becoming a local player after next season it's still a risk for the club to use a visa slot on someone that might not give us the visa impact that we'd hope for. And then by the time he's a local his body may and well truly be spent and not even really worth a local spot and he'd be on the same wage?

wilbaker

Ryan

wilbaker

Ryan

Ball is going to be eligible for citizenship next year, so season after next he'll hopefully be a domestic player.

Will he tho? I'm not really sure of the ins and outs of it but he was obviously living in Australia for a bit so would that affect it?

Who knows, this article says he's hopeful: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/128761813/david-ball-wants-to-play-for-all-whites-after-resigning-with-wellington-phoenix

He was a resident the whole time but was based overseas. It will depend on if there's any dispensation because of covid or not.

Quick google search says this "From the day you apply for citizenship, you need to have been physically in New Zealand for most of the time over the last five years"
so he might be fine as he'd spent most of his time in NZ. 

Even with him becoming a local player after next season it's still a risk for the club to use a visa slot on someone that might not give us the visa impact that we'd hope for. And then by the time he's a local his body may and well truly be spent and not even really worth a local spot and he'd be on the same wage?

With a citizenship it might be easier for him (if that is in his plans) to do a coaching badge and be involved locally, perhaps even with the Nix.  Seems like he would be an excellent role model for the youngsters with his workrate, commitment, and lack of any primadonna traits whatsoever.  

Ryan

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Get realistic ? the quality in the A-League isn't that great for starters, but is all we have in this part of the world... yeah, Zawada is scoring goals, but to call him a great striker is ridiculous, I pointed out his strengths and weaknesses.

Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why.

Our most creative player by far is Elliot... with the very good ball dribbling skills he has to beat players, he was a big asset when he moved forward quickly from the back, on those occasions we'd have good momentum going forward as a unit, for some strange reason Elliot just passes the ball around most of the time now. 

In reply to:
" Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why. "

I am not sure I would agree.  IF you want to see a team of good players playing poorly as a team, look at Sydney FC right now.   And that is with Steve Corica at the helm. I would not call Corica as unable to get the best of his players, because he has a record to show he can do that.   All it means is that there are other factors that can make or break team's season, when the table is as congested as we have now.
An injury to a key player is one such factor (Adam Le Fondre being out for Sydney as an example, but maybe Clayton Lewis for us is a similar case).  Others here may put forward their own suggestions.

For quite a while I've been undecided as to whether we are a good team playing disappointingly average football or an average team managing to perform slightly over the odds. 

Either way I don't see any sign of a team getting on a roll, as Adelaide and WSW are, in the home stretch towards the finals. There is very little time left for Uffie to get this team to click up a notch in confidence and performance.

adidasbloke

Ryan

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Get realistic ? the quality in the A-League isn't that great for starters, but is all we have in this part of the world... yeah, Zawada is scoring goals, but to call him a great striker is ridiculous, I pointed out his strengths and weaknesses.

Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why.

Our most creative player by far is Elliot... with the very good ball dribbling skills he has to beat players, he was a big asset when he moved forward quickly from the back, on those occasions we'd have good momentum going forward as a unit, for some strange reason Elliot just passes the ball around most of the time now. 

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and contradiction in your post. And, regardless of how good or bad the league is it's about squad fit and the coach getting the best out of the player, we've seen highly rated players flop and unrated players excel.  So looking at players doesn't work.


One metric we can look at is the position a team finishes on the table versus it's relative budget, and David Dome has said that Talay has always finished above his budget.

Ryan

adidasbloke

Ryan

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Get realistic ? the quality in the A-League isn't that great for starters, but is all we have in this part of the world... yeah, Zawada is scoring goals, but to call him a great striker is ridiculous, I pointed out his strengths and weaknesses.

Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why.

Our most creative player by far is Elliot... with the very good ball dribbling skills he has to beat players, he was a big asset when he moved forward quickly from the back, on those occasions we'd have good momentum going forward as a unit, for some strange reason Elliot just passes the ball around most of the time now. 

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and contradiction in your post. And, regardless of how good or bad the league is it's about squad fit and the coach getting the best out of the player, we've seen highly rated players flop and unrated players excel.  So looking at players doesn't work.


One metric we can look at is the position a team finishes on the table versus it's relative budget, and David Dome has said that Talay has always finished above his budget.

To say my post was about hypocrisy and contradiction is nonsense.

Highly rated players are going to flop at times, as unrated players are going to excel, that happens in all sports, no matter how good a team is - my point is we're not performing well as a team, also playing in a very negative manner, which is why other teams play too much of the game in our half, constantly applying huge pressure on us, and you're clearly overrating both Zawada & Talay.

It's not difficult to gauge how good a player is, just look at how good that player is at executing all the skill sets in his position under real pressure.

adidasbloke

Ryan

adidasbloke

Ryan

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Get realistic ? the quality in the A-League isn't that great for starters, but is all we have in this part of the world... yeah, Zawada is scoring goals, but to call him a great striker is ridiculous, I pointed out his strengths and weaknesses.

Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why.

Our most creative player by far is Elliot... with the very good ball dribbling skills he has to beat players, he was a big asset when he moved forward quickly from the back, on those occasions we'd have good momentum going forward as a unit, for some strange reason Elliot just passes the ball around most of the time now. 

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and contradiction in your post. And, regardless of how good or bad the league is it's about squad fit and the coach getting the best out of the player, we've seen highly rated players flop and unrated players excel.  So looking at players doesn't work.


One metric we can look at is the position a team finishes on the table versus it's relative budget, and David Dome has said that Talay has always finished above his budget.

To say my post was about hypocrisy and contradiction is nonsense.

Highly rated players are going to flop at times, as unrated players are going to excel, that happens in all sports, no matter how good a team is - my point is we're not performing well as a team, also playing in a very negative manner, which is why other teams play too much of the game in our half, constantly applying huge pressure on us, and you're clearly overrating both Zawada & Talay.

It's not difficult to gauge how good a player is, just look at how good that player is at executing all the skill sets in his position under real pressure.

I'm starting to think you're either a troll account or you just don't watch the games. You keep saying how poor we're playing (even though we are fifth), with your main qualms being with the goalscoring and chance creation in the attacking third. Let's break this down. The phoenix have scored 34 goals with an xg of 34.8. only three teams have a higher xg, and equally three teams have more goals. Now, for those playing at home theres 12 teams in the league, imagine how shark the 8 teams with less must be if we're a poor attacking team... But to be fair, goals and xg isn't the perfect metric for creativity and chance creation, that's why we have the big chance creation stat! Which the nix are sitting pretty at the top of the rankings. We are also middle of the pack when it comes to percentage of goals with an assist so, in short... You're talking out of your arse

Jazzy Jeff

adidasbloke

Ryan

adidasbloke

Ryan

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Get realistic ? the quality in the A-League isn't that great for starters, but is all we have in this part of the world... yeah, Zawada is scoring goals, but to call him a great striker is ridiculous, I pointed out his strengths and weaknesses.

Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why.

Our most creative player by far is Elliot... with the very good ball dribbling skills he has to beat players, he was a big asset when he moved forward quickly from the back, on those occasions we'd have good momentum going forward as a unit, for some strange reason Elliot just passes the ball around most of the time now. 

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and contradiction in your post. And, regardless of how good or bad the league is it's about squad fit and the coach getting the best out of the player, we've seen highly rated players flop and unrated players excel.  So looking at players doesn't work.


One metric we can look at is the position a team finishes on the table versus it's relative budget, and David Dome has said that Talay has always finished above his budget.

To say my post was about hypocrisy and contradiction is nonsense.

Highly rated players are going to flop at times, as unrated players are going to excel, that happens in all sports, no matter how good a team is - my point is we're not performing well as a team, also playing in a very negative manner, which is why other teams play too much of the game in our half, constantly applying huge pressure on us, and you're clearly overrating both Zawada & Talay.

It's not difficult to gauge how good a player is, just look at how good that player is at executing all the skill sets in his position under real pressure.

I'm starting to think you're either a troll account or you just don't watch the games. You keep saying how poor we're playing (even though we are fifth), with your main qualms being with the goalscoring and chance creation in the attacking third. Let's break this down. The phoenix have scored 34 goals with an xg of 34.8. only three teams have a higher xg, and equally three teams have more goals. Now, for those playing at home theres 12 teams in the league, imagine how shark the 8 teams with less must be if we're a poor attacking team... But to be fair, goals and xg isn't the perfect metric for creativity and chance creation, that's why we have the big chance creation stat! Which the nix are sitting pretty at the top of the rankings. We are also middle of the pack when it comes to percentage of goals with an assist so, in short... You're talking out of your arse

Well, you certainly talk plenty of verbal diarrhoea, if you want to put up with mediocrity that's up to you, unbelievable how naive you are - there needs to be improvements in our defence, and it's silly when we score first, then just sit on a lead, just lets the other team completely dominate us, and we're easy to shut down from back because we stuff around passing backwards or across the field way too much... many a time one of our defenders that has possession with 5 metres or so of space in front of them, they need to show real urgency and move quickly forward with the ball, either beat a player or lay the ball off to someone in space so we can get good momentum going forward... christ, this is just common sense stuff.

adidasbloke

Jazzy Jeff

adidasbloke

Ryan

adidasbloke

Ryan

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Get realistic ? the quality in the A-League isn't that great for starters, but is all we have in this part of the world... yeah, Zawada is scoring goals, but to call him a great striker is ridiculous, I pointed out his strengths and weaknesses.

Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why.

Our most creative player by far is Elliot... with the very good ball dribbling skills he has to beat players, he was a big asset when he moved forward quickly from the back, on those occasions we'd have good momentum going forward as a unit, for some strange reason Elliot just passes the ball around most of the time now. 

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and contradiction in your post. And, regardless of how good or bad the league is it's about squad fit and the coach getting the best out of the player, we've seen highly rated players flop and unrated players excel.  So looking at players doesn't work.


One metric we can look at is the position a team finishes on the table versus it's relative budget, and David Dome has said that Talay has always finished above his budget.

To say my post was about hypocrisy and contradiction is nonsense.

Highly rated players are going to flop at times, as unrated players are going to excel, that happens in all sports, no matter how good a team is - my point is we're not performing well as a team, also playing in a very negative manner, which is why other teams play too much of the game in our half, constantly applying huge pressure on us, and you're clearly overrating both Zawada & Talay.

It's not difficult to gauge how good a player is, just look at how good that player is at executing all the skill sets in his position under real pressure.

I'm starting to think you're either a troll account or you just don't watch the games. You keep saying how poor we're playing (even though we are fifth), with your main qualms being with the goalscoring and chance creation in the attacking third. Let's break this down. The phoenix have scored 34 goals with an xg of 34.8. only three teams have a higher xg, and equally three teams have more goals. Now, for those playing at home theres 12 teams in the league, imagine how shark the 8 teams with less must be if we're a poor attacking team... But to be fair, goals and xg isn't the perfect metric for creativity and chance creation, that's why we have the big chance creation stat! Which the nix are sitting pretty at the top of the rankings. We are also middle of the pack when it comes to percentage of goals with an assist so, in short... You're talking out of your arse

Well, you certainly talk plenty of verbal diarrhoea, if you want to put up with mediocrity that's up to you, unbelievable how naive you are - there needs to be improvements in our defence, and it's silly when we score first, then just sit on a lead, just lets the other team completely dominate us, and we're easy to shut down from back because we stuff around passing backwards or across the field way too much... many a time one of our defenders that has possession with 5 metres or so of space in front of them, they need to show real urgency and move quickly forward with the ball, either beat a player or lay the ball off to someone in space so we can get good momentum going forward... christ, this is just common sense stuff.

the man has provided you with his opinion and backed it up with really good stats. The hypocrisy of you calling that verbal diarrhea and then responding with your own actual verbal diarrhea is quite incredible 👏 

anaveragestem

adidasbloke

Jazzy Jeff

adidasbloke

Ryan

adidasbloke

Ryan

"Zawada isn't a great striker"
"Talay isn't good at getting the most out of his players"

Zawada has something like 12 goals and has been scoring pretty consistently over the last 10 or so games, either he's a great A-League level striker or Talay is doing a good job getting the most out of him.

Get realistic ? the quality in the A-League isn't that great for starters, but is all we have in this part of the world... yeah, Zawada is scoring goals, but to call him a great striker is ridiculous, I pointed out his strengths and weaknesses.

Pointless trying to get the best out of only one player anyway... fact is Talay isn't getting the best out of each individual, only have to analyse how poor we are playing as a team, and have given reasons why.

Our most creative player by far is Elliot... with the very good ball dribbling skills he has to beat players, he was a big asset when he moved forward quickly from the back, on those occasions we'd have good momentum going forward as a unit, for some strange reason Elliot just passes the ball around most of the time now. 

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and contradiction in your post. And, regardless of how good or bad the league is it's about squad fit and the coach getting the best out of the player, we've seen highly rated players flop and unrated players excel.  So looking at players doesn't work.


One metric we can look at is the position a team finishes on the table versus it's relative budget, and David Dome has said that Talay has always finished above his budget.

To say my post was about hypocrisy and contradiction is nonsense.

Highly rated players are going to flop at times, as unrated players are going to excel, that happens in all sports, no matter how good a team is - my point is we're not performing well as a team, also playing in a very negative manner, which is why other teams play too much of the game in our half, constantly applying huge pressure on us, and you're clearly overrating both Zawada & Talay.

It's not difficult to gauge how good a player is, just look at how good that player is at executing all the skill sets in his position under real pressure.

I'm starting to think you're either a troll account or you just don't watch the games. You keep saying how poor we're playing (even though we are fifth), with your main qualms being with the goalscoring and chance creation in the attacking third. Let's break this down. The phoenix have scored 34 goals with an xg of 34.8. only three teams have a higher xg, and equally three teams have more goals. Now, for those playing at home theres 12 teams in the league, imagine how shark the 8 teams with less must be if we're a poor attacking team... But to be fair, goals and xg isn't the perfect metric for creativity and chance creation, that's why we have the big chance creation stat! Which the nix are sitting pretty at the top of the rankings. We are also middle of the pack when it comes to percentage of goals with an assist so, in short... You're talking out of your arse

Well, you certainly talk plenty of verbal diarrhoea, if you want to put up with mediocrity that's up to you, unbelievable how naive you are - there needs to be improvements in our defence, and it's silly when we score first, then just sit on a lead, just lets the other team completely dominate us, and we're easy to shut down from back because we stuff around passing backwards or across the field way too much... many a time one of our defenders that has possession with 5 metres or so of space in front of them, they need to show real urgency and move quickly forward with the ball, either beat a player or lay the ball off to someone in space so we can get good momentum going forward... christ, this is just common sense stuff.

the man has provided you with his opinion and backed it up with really good stats. The hypocrisy of you calling that verbal diarrhea and then responding with your own actual verbal diarrhea is quite incredible 👏 

Mate, the game isn't just about stats, that's one-dimensional thinking, it's about how the team are performing tactically etc too - also the Man fired similar rubbish at me, only have to go back and look at his post, so can be very sure I'm not going to put up with any nonsense like that.

Fact is we need to improve a lot in defence, also all our strikers need to get involved more & make the most of their opportunities, not just rely on one striker.

A big part of winning a game is by trying to play in the other sides half as much as possible, that clearly doesn't happen enough - our backs tend to spend too much time mucking about passing the ball back or across the field, so we lose all our flow, allowing them to shut us down too easily, yeah it's about keeping possession for long periods, but the Phoenix also need to use the ball well in a positive manner.

Our option taking isn't great, we tend to pass too many 50/50 passes into crowded areas... by using good peripheral vision you're constantly scanning to look for players in space or whether they're in a good position to receive the ball.

If you disagree about what I said tactics wise, give me good reasons why.

No reply then, must mean you agree about the tactics I mentioned ? ...anyone can post stats about a team, as I basically mentioned that's only part of the equation, the other part is whether someone can analyse in depth or not about tactics etc.

The very best players overseas are always looking to improve, that way they consistently focus in keeping their standards up.