Nahhh. Why should one team get home advantage by lottery? I reckon a cup final should always be played at a neutral "home of football" stadium - it's just that NHS is a bit shark for purpose.
Whenever the final is played at a "netural" stadium like NHS and has an Auckland team in it it's hardly a netural venue
I hope you'd say the same for all the years the Chatham Cup final was at the Basin Reserve. Or to put it another way: do London teams get home advantage because the FA Cup is at Wembley?
Yes Basin Reserve was the same - Wellington teams had an advantadge, not just because they had the home crowd but for a long time that was the main venue for football in the city as well.
Don't really think you can compare it to Wembley as they sell out there and clubs get equal ticket allocations, also in England there is a tradition of fans traveling which you don't get in NZ.
Perhaps a way to decide who gets home advantage would be to go on goal difference? Probably not from early in the comp as there's too many one sided washings but maybe from the quarters on? I don't know, just spit balling an idea.
Also I really don't get the whinging about NHS. Everything I can see on it makes it look pretty painless to get to. But I do say that as someone who comes from Kapiti for Nix games. Maybe jafas should just be grateful they've got the stadium? Cause I hear similar whinging about Eden Park and Mt Smart.
As I keep saying, NHS being "painless to get to" assumes that you have a car and aren't coming from the south. We're in a climate emergency.
But that's of possibly less importance than the fact that the stadium isn't good as an experience, has gotten worse since they turned it into a baseball diamond, needs expensive repairs. North Harbour rugby want to build a boutique stadium at Onewa Domain. This article suggests that it was an abortion from the get-go as it was supposed to replace Eden Park altogether; although this article also says they were going to build a rail line to get to it, which is complete nonsense as this was pre-Britomart days when they kept talking about shutting down Auckland rail altogether.
As I keep saying, NHS being "painless to get to" assumes that you have a car and aren't coming from the south. We're in a climate emergency.
But that's of possibly less importance than the fact that the stadium isn't good as an experience, has gotten worse since they turned it into a baseball diamond, needs expensive repairs. North Harbour rugby want to build a boutique stadium at Onewa Domain. This article suggests that it was an abortion from the get-go as it was supposed to replace Eden Park altogether; although this article also says they were going to build a rail line to get to it, which is complete nonsense as this was pre-Britomart days when they kept talking about shutting down Auckland rail altogether.
Doloras
As I keep saying, NHS being "painless to get to" assumes that you have a car and aren't coming from the south. We're in a climate emergency.
But that's of possibly less importance than the fact that the stadium isn't good as an experience, has gotten worse since they turned it into a baseball diamond, needs expensive repairs. North Harbour rugby want to build a boutique stadium at Onewa Domain. This article suggests that it was an abortion from the get-go as it was supposed to replace Eden Park altogether; although this article also says they were going to build a rail line to get to it, which is complete nonsense as this was pre-Britomart days when they kept talking about shutting down Auckland rail altogether.
Doloras if you're so genuinely worried about the climate emergency then why do you support professional football at all? The emissions from it due to travel in general would be horrendous.
You keep harping on about climate emergency but you don't seem to worry about the emissions of the people entertaing you.
Also I'm sure there's busses that get you close to the stadium. Don't be a wuss and walk a little way. Everone in welly does along the concourse, its not that hard.
Nahhh. Why should one team get home advantage by lottery? I reckon a cup final should always be played at a neutral "home of football" stadium - it's just that NHS is a bit shark for purpose.
A "neutral" location tends not to be very neutral anyway - Springs and Melville with much less travel effectively had a degree of home advantage anyway. And a truly neutral location is crap as hardly anyone would go. Just do a random draw for it like for all the rounds before it.
Wayne Brown is an awful person who occasionally has really good ideas, like "demolish NHS and sell the land"
Yeah, I had a really awful night the other week. Easy drive with hardly any traffic from Grey Lynn to North Harbour Stadium. Took about 20 minutes. Found free carpark amongst hundreds of other free car parks right near the stadium. Ate a nice meal at a nice restaurant just a few minutes walk away with my daughter who had a short trip from Orewa and a couple of friends who bussed from Takapuna(ish). Had some drinks in a bar right nearby and watched the first half of the warriors, then wandered over to the stadium, an easier walk than the concourse at Wellington. After the game, easily back on the motorway for a quick trip back, without having to fight my way through narrow streets blocked with traffic they weren’t designed for. God it was awful. No…wait… now that I come to write it down, it wasn’t so bad. In fact it was quite easy and stress free. Much easier than a number of other games I’ve been to over that last couple years. Certainly the drive from Grey Lynn was easier and quicker than getting to Mt Smart, and the parking was easier, and the bars and restaurants were right there.
Fact is, that stadium was built basically in the country at the time, now it is surrounded by thousands of houses. And more going up all the time. Not saying it is the ideal stadium for an Auckland franchise right now, but knocking it down and replacing it with houses isn’t the right thing to do. Auckland would find itself in Wellington’s situation in 20 years…. needing a bespoke stadium for a North Auckland team, but there’s nowhere suitable to build it except miles away, and people complaining it’s too far to go, got no transport, got no bars nearby, too hard to get to. So yeah, knock it down and cover the area in houses. Give your grandkids the same opportunities to complain about how shortsighted preceding generations have been.
What onramp? - big difference Curran St vs Wellington St or Western Spring in the midweek evening peak
CO does raise a good point that in 20 years NHS, maybe in an ideal spot as a sports stadium as Auckland continues to expand north. Especially if public transport infrastructure is expanded. Could the North Shore have a train line in 20-30 years? Who knows, but future planning in NZ's biggest city has a horrendous history of minimal long term planning, so maybe leaving NHS alone is actually a good long term idea, as city the city grows further. New stadia of any size ain't cheap to build.
But for the now, it's in a really bad location for an Auckland ALM team. The Nix crowds at Eden Park have been double to 4x, the size of any crowd they ever got at NHS. The train line to EP is an excellent way to get there, and the bar scene in Sandringham a great vibe. The crowd numbers Nix have got in Mt Eden say it all. To me EP as the primary home is the best immediate option.
For games that will likely bring in a smaller crowd, you block off one side of the ground to create a better atmosphere on the day. Plus you take a few games to Mt Smart, the Tron/Tauranga.
So: this thread I've gotten "you can't enjoy professional football and care about the climate emergency", to go with "you can't enjoy professional football and care about Right-wing billionaires trampling on human rights" from a previous thread. You can't enjoy football while having politics to the left of David Seymour, it seems.
The living embodiment of this famous meme (full comic here).
So: this thread I've gotten "you can't enjoy professional football and care about the climate emergency", to go with "you can't enjoy professional football and care about Right-wing billionaires trampling on human rights" from a previous thread. You can't enjoy football while having politics to the left of David Seymour, it seems.
The living embodiment of this famous meme (full comic here).
It's more than you criticize the publics potential carbon footprint while making no mention the the much larger carbon footprint of the teams you follow. Almost seems like a double standard. If it's an emergency as you say then it means immediate action must be taken, surely that would include all that unnecessary travel that football as an unnecessary entertainment product creates. That or you don't belive it's enough of an emergency to actually make a stand if it effects your entertainment.
You're the one that makes nearly every post you make about your politics, don't get upset when people clap back.
For what it's worth I do think we should all be seeking to be greener when we can. But by your standards no one should attend any football if they can't bike.
"You're the one that makes nearly every post you make about your politics, don't get upset when people clap back. "
No, that's an optical illusion - it's just those are the ones which get you upset. It's well known that in fact nearly every post I make is about how the Nix are going to have a crappy season, get it right.
But it's clear why there's no real climate action, if people really believe that if we don't shut down Western civilisation and everything fun overnight, there's no point in doing anything. (And both people on the Right who don't want to do anything, and people on the Left who are doomers who really want to go back to living in caves, are to blame for that "if you can't be perfect give up" attitude.)
"You're the one that makes nearly every post you make about your politics, don't get upset when people clap back. "
No, that's an optical illusion - it's just those are the ones which get you upset. It's well known that in fact nearly every post I make is about how the Nix are going to have a crappy season, get it right.
But it's clear why there's no real climate action, if people really believe that if we don't shut down Western civilisation and everything fun overnight, there's no point in doing anything. (And both people on the Right who don't want to do anything, and people on the Left who are doomers who really want to go back to living in caves, are to blame for that "if you can't be perfect give up" attitude.)
"You're the one that makes nearly every post you make about your politics, don't get upset when people clap back. "
No, that's an optical illusion - it's just those are the ones which get you upset. It's well known that in fact nearly every post I make is about how the Nix are going to have a crappy season, get it right.
But it's clear why there's no real climate action, if people really believe that if we don't shut down Western civilisation and everything fun overnight, there's no point in doing anything. (And both people on the Right who don't want to do anything, and people on the Left who are doomers who really want to go back to living in caves, are to blame for that "if you can't be perfect give up" attitude.)
What is an optical illusion is you have to be on the left to care about climate change. Not all who vote right of centre own a Texan oil well, or Queensland coal mine. Some of the strongest left wing union folk you'd meet, around the world have hated seeing their places of employment shut - be it a Victorian coal fuelled power station or whatever. Plus they loved driving to work in their V8 Holden.
I'm all for sporting stadiums with excellent public transport, and yes think touting a venue with great car parking and/or motorway access ain't a good solution in today's times. I spent years biking, walking or taking the bus to work. Plus I like the stuff Forest Green Rovers are doing, but hell would freeze before I'm vote for the madness of the NZ Greens. Sorry off topic.
You can’t claim to honestly give a damn about climate change and vote for either the straight out deniers in ACT, the flubbers in National or really even the pasty pale green this version of Labour is serving.
You simply can’t have it both ways anymore. We’re into paying people who are flooded out and whose houses are dropping off cliffs. The costs are here and mounting.
You can’t claim to honestly give a damn about climate change and vote for either the straight out deniers in ACT, the flubbers in National or really even the pasty pale green this version of Labour is serving.
You simply can’t have it both ways anymore. We’re into paying people who are flooded out and whose houses are dropping off cliffs. The costs are here and mounting.
Apparently 50% of kiwis don’t think climate change will affect them. So maybe it won’t Miss McGee. Postive thinking and not living in Dunedin and certain parts of the east coast, including the Coromandel!
The climate change stuff should go here if people want to keep hammering, and the Auckland stadiums chat should go here
Oh look, the thread police. Make multiple mentions of climate and stadiums, the demand anyone with a counter opinion go elsewhere.
So two points: 1- Just as you claim it is easier for those south of the bridge to get to Mt Smart than NHS, it is easier for those north of the bridge to get to NHS than Mt Smart. It is also difficult to bike from Browns Bay to Mount Smart. You want to campaign for stadium demolitions, campaign for your local stadium, not one that services another community. Try to look at the bigger picture, there is more than just happens in your back yard. Imagine for a moment if Mt Smart or Mt Eden was demolished and the land sold. Then try and imagine how easy it would not be to a) find somewhere to build a replacement and b) get it past the local NIMBYs
2- Newsflash on climate change; it is not an ‘emergency’. Climate change has been an issue for a long time, but it is nether caused by a few football fans driving to a stadium, not solved by stopping them driving to a stadium. The cars that go to and from any stadium in this country wouldn’t even register as a blip on the daily vehicle use if it tripled. There are much bigger causes of climate change than sports fans driving to stadiums.
The climate change stuff should go here if people want to keep hammering, and the Auckland stadiums chat should go here
Oh look, the thread police. Make multiple mentions of climate and stadiums, the demand anyone with a counter opinion go elsewhere.
So two points: 1- Just as you claim it is easier for those south of the bridge to get to Mt Smart than NHS, it is easier for those north of the bridge to get to NHS than Mt Smart. It is also difficult to bike from Browns Bay to Mount Smart. You want to campaign for stadium demolitions, campaign for your local stadium, not one that services another community. Try to look at the bigger picture, there is more than just happens in your back yard. Imagine for a moment if Mt Smart or Mt Eden was demolished and the land sold. Then try and imagine how easy it would not be to a) find somewhere to build a replacement and b) get it past the local NIMBYs
2- Newsflash on climate change; it is not an ‘emergency’. Climate change has been an issue for a long time, but it is nether caused by a few football fans driving to a stadium, not solved by stopping them driving to a stadium. The cars that go to and from any stadium in this country wouldn’t even register as a blip on the daily vehicle use if it tripled. There are much bigger causes of climate change than sports fans driving to stadiums.
Sure, but if 1% of football fans internationally who drove this year to stadiums, didn’t drive to the stadiums next year that would be a significant change.
But that’s an urban design question or a behavior question. And yah shouldn’t be drivin if you are drinking, so the solution is to fundraise to buy everyone two beers a game….though I just realized you shouldn’t be cycling either. Thought I’d solved it.
And I think also that this is what I’ve been saying- an Auckland franchise is either a pan Auckland Eden Park activity to unite the tribes or it’s a regional effort- a Shore plus, a Waitakere plus, a Manukau plus, an Ellerslie plus… if it’s a parochial enough regional effort then it survives down turns better imo. If you can bake in 4-5k in a local radius as a base figure that’s a good start.
We might see fewer 20k efforts with fans flying/driving/hitching in from all over as we’d do with ‘Nix Auckland games or we might see more with that kiwi derby. Who knows.
I also note that I tried to bow out of this conversation, but people with Very Strong Opinions about how big corporations and driving cars need to be defended can't let it go :D People who go "blargh blargh blargh why do you keep bringing politics up" actually only want THEIR politics to be brought up
I also note that I tried to bow out of this conversation, but people with Very Strong Opinions about how big corporations and driving cars need to be defended can't let it go :D People who go "blargh blargh blargh why do you keep bringing politics up" actually only want THEIR politics to be brought up
God you spend a lot of time deflecting, you're the one that said we shouldn't drive.
You've shown up, stuck your oar in and then made generalizations of everone that disagrees with you. I've noticed you do that a lot. Heaven forbid you actually have to follow up on the assertions you make.
The climate change stuff should go here if people want to keep hammering, and the Auckland stadiums chat should go here
Oh look, the thread police. Make multiple mentions of climate and stadiums, the demand anyone with a counter opinion go elsewhere.
So two points: 1- Just as you claim it is easier for those south of the bridge to get to Mt Smart than NHS, it is easier for those north of the bridge to get to NHS than Mt Smart. It is also difficult to bike from Browns Bay to Mount Smart. You want to campaign for stadium demolitions, campaign for your local stadium, not one that services another community. Try to look at the bigger picture, there is more than just happens in your back yard. Imagine for a moment if Mt Smart or Mt Eden was demolished and the land sold. Then try and imagine how easy it would not be to a) find somewhere to build a replacement and b) get it past the local NIMBYs
2- Newsflash on climate change; it is not an ‘emergency’. Climate change has been an issue for a long time, but it is nether caused by a few football fans driving to a stadium, not solved by stopping them driving to a stadium. The cars that go to and from any stadium in this country wouldn’t even register as a blip on the daily vehicle use if it tripled. There are much bigger causes of climate change than sports fans driving to stadiums.
Sure, but if 1% of football fans internationally who drove this year to stadiums, didn’t drive to the stadiums next year that would be a significant change.
But that’s an urban design question or a behavior question. And yah shouldn’t be drivin if you are drinking, so the solution is to fundraise to buy everyone two beers a game….though I just realized you shouldn’t be cycling either. Thought I’d solved it.
And I think also that this is what I’ve been saying- an Auckland franchise is either a pan Auckland Eden Park activity to unite the tribes or it’s a regional effort- a Shore plus, a Waitakere plus, a Manukau plus, an Ellerslie plus… if it’s a parochial enough regional effort then it survives down turns better imo. If you can bake in 4-5k in a local radius as a base figure that’s a good start.
We might see fewer 20k efforts with fans flying/driving/hitching in from all over as we’d do with ‘Nix Auckland games or we might see more with that kiwi derby. Who knows.
Auckland ain't big enough yet, and the A League no where stable enough financially - for any Auckland team to not be a 'whole of Auckland team'. It would be silly to try to set it up as either a North Shore or central/south Auckland type club. They will need all the fans they can get. Another reason to me why it should be primarily based at Eden Park - the most central location in the Super City.
But yeah sure in 10-15 years (maybe less), Auckland could be at over 2M people, with thousands more living north of the Bridge. The A League maybe very stable. The APL's proposed plan of 20-24 teams over 2 divisions (A1 & A2) maybe working well. Could a 2nd Auckland team (North Shore United) based at NHS be a new franchise? Possibly.
It may not ever have the demographic/social divide of say WSW verus Sydney FC, or Boca verus River Plate - but the North Shore is certainly different enough to central/south Auckland to have a proper derby rivalry for 09 football fans if it ever happened. And again is another reason why suggestions to demolish NHS, could be very short term thinking.
94 quality photos of the final are available here taken by Shane Wenzlick, one of NZ's premier sports photographers who specialises in football images: https://www.phototek.dns2go.com:90/age/soc/source/230910pt069.html He runs the Phototek agency and you can buy prints of any of these cup final photos or any other football images taken by him (Phoenix, Ferns, Women's World Cup, All Whites etc.). Can be ordered here: https://www.phototek.co.nz/mjafc1.html "All photographs are printed on high quality photographic paper at a reputable Auckland based photographic lab." Search Phototek's library of images here: https://phototek.co.nz/wp/editorial/ Can enter search terms for images of a specific match, a player etc.
Enjoyable game, quality on YT was good, not great. A couple of times I paused the game and the onscreen graphics come up, including viewing number, the largest I saw was 5.1k watching...no idea what that means though, as I have no idea of how YT measures its views...
Pretty easy for YT to measure who clicks on a link to watch a live stream/video (or are you not aware that the k stands for 1000 so that 5.1k = 5100-5199). Currently sits on 25k so 25000-25999. I hope NZF is getting some cash from the ads I had to sit through every 10 minutes watching afterwards.
Yeah of course, I was more interested of the number of people watching live
crowd number at the game was 1289
And so not much atmosphere came across in the broadcast in a mostly empty stadium. To me, that's a good argument for having the final played either in the town of one of the finalists or as a home and away two-legged affair. That would ensure a decent crowd. Some of the best Chatham Cup finals I remember in the 1980's were two-legged affairs with bumper crowds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chatham_Cup_finals#Results The 1986, 87 and 88 finals were played over two legs. 1986 - 4000 crammed into the Links Rd. ground at Mount Maunganui for the second leg. 1987 - 3500 crammed in to Childers Rd Reserve for the first leg in Gisbourne.
The 1972 final between Christchurch United and Mount Wellington went to three games because they would have a replay if a final was drawn in those days - the first replay was also a draw, so it went to a third match. The first match was at a neutral venue, the Basin Reserve, the first replay at English Park in Chch, the second replay which decided it at Newmarket Park in Auckland. Which also shows that a two-legged final would be a good thing.
The two legged finals weren't great - robbed Mt Maunganui of a classic upset, and then you had Waikato "winning" the cup without actually winning a game (away goals). They should split the Chatham Cup from the Kate Sheppard Cup and in both have a draw (which they do anyway) and whoever gets the home game has the final - doesn't have to be at that teams home ground ie if a Wellington team got in the final could have the game at Newtown or Porirua Park, or Christchurch at English Park still would get a better atmosphere
The final has been played in the home city of one of the finalists (allotted after the finalists were decided) quite a few times over the last fifty years - Cashmere Technical won it at English Park in 2013. QE II Stadium hosted the 1974 and 1976 finals with Christchurch United. I was at Trafalgar Park in Nelson as a schoolboy for the final in 1979 when John Adshead first came to national attention coaching northern league Manurewa to an upset cup win over national league Nelson United. Gisborne hosted the 1983 final. Napier hosted the 1993 and 2002 finals. Central United hosted the 2007 final at Kiwitea Street Palmerston North hosted the 2011 final (Wairarapa Utd) Lower Hutt City hosted the 2012 final at Newtown Park. Cashmere Technical hosted the 2013 final (English Park) Miramar hosted the 2021 final in Wellington (Jerry Collins Stadium)
The very first Kate Shepherd Cup (then known as "The Women's Knockout Cup") was actually played in Christchurch at English Park because local side Nomads were in the final. The 2013 final was hosted by Christchurch finalist Coastal Spirit at English Park.
