The big question, that we'll probably never get an answer to, is what did Herdman say for NZF to think he was basically on board.
or was Pragnell just spitballing about his big plan!
BAZEball - The Darren Bazeley Era
or was Pragnell just spitballing about his big plan!
Who is responsible for Pragnell? seriously. How these people like Pragnell end up in these roles is beyond me...they must talk themselves into it with the uneducated.
NZ does not have the executive talent, especially not in sport.
Add in the fact that no one has any experience in the insanely competitive world of football, and NZF is your result.
Is his the CEOs salary public?
Add in the fact that no one has any experience in the insanely competitive world of football, and NZF is your result.
Is his the CEOs salary public?
I was pretty doom and gloom about this but then I remembers that its a thought experiment, only because NZF never actually organise international matches. Bazely will manage the NZ team in Oceania and maybe a few warm up games for bigger international teams that want to stretch the legs a bit before an important game.
What can we as fans do to get better representation for what we want from NZF? They don't seem to listen to us ever, not for the Men's or Women's national leagues, not for age grade and senior internationals, not for developing coach capability (like they did in Iceland), not for developing facilities. On a day to day basis, what do NZF actually do well?
What can we as fans do to get better representation for what we want from NZF? They don't seem to listen to us ever, not for the Men's or Women's national leagues, not for age grade and senior internationals, not for developing coach capability (like they did in Iceland), not for developing facilities. On a day to day basis, what do NZF actually do well?
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
We could strategically lose to the Solomons in the OFC final and still play the repechage... though with Bazeley not sure if strategy will be required
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
This is why an Auckland A League club is soo important. Will be a boom for the code, having a 2nd NZ team in NZ's biggest city, and where so much of the sports media are based. Despite the doubters I think it will be success on & off the field. 2-3 huge derby games each year. APL manage the ALM/ALW draw well and we will get a game in NZ each weekend.
Just the small matter of raising a $25M licence fee!!
Unfortunately seems we will never see the AWs play a tense high stakes, WC qualifying game in NZ again. Sad. OFC qualifiers or any friendlies really are 2nd/3rd rate affairs, by international standards.
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
We could strategically lose to the Solomons in the OFC final and still play the repechage... though with Bazeley not sure if strategy will be required
The 2026 WC repecharge series will be a tourney, of about 6 teams (incl yes 2nd in OFC). Tourney likely to be in North America. The days of high stakes H&A Intercontinental Playoffs are over.
And we all know the AWs will coast through OFC qualifying when it returns to it's pre Covid H&A format. The players could literally coach themselves, and still be way too good for the Island teams.
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
We could strategically lose to the Solomons in the OFC final and still play the repechage... though with Bazeley not sure if strategy will be required
The 2026 WC repecharge series will be a tourney, of about 6 teams (incl yes 2nd in OFC). Tourney likely to be in North America. The days of high stakes H&A Intercontinental Playoffs are over.
And we all know the AWs will coast through OFC qualifying when it returns to it's pre Covid H&A format. The players could literally coach themselves, and still be way too good for the Island teams.
With the intercontinental playoff previously being home/away at FIFA level, the OFC side would still have to go away if they won, now with the direct ticket, they could qualify for the World Cup without ever leaving the Tropics. Would there even be any way of stopping that? If OFC members brought it forward and it passed 10-1, FIFA could possibly just say 'the members voted for this and we respect the democratic process'.
When this was announced I wonder if Bazeley was laughing/smiling at his appointment full time or if he was bright red with embarrassment.
Really, to be used as a whipping boy, he would have been well in his rights as 3rd or 4th choice, to tell them to stick it up their collective A.... at NZF.
It can't be a nice feeling knowing you were not the number one choice. And no one believes anything Pragnall says these days. Everytime he opens his mouth an embarrassing lie jumps out.
Really, to be used as a whipping boy, he would have been well in his rights as 3rd or 4th choice, to tell them to stick it up their collective A.... at NZF.
It can't be a nice feeling knowing you were not the number one choice. And no one believes anything Pragnall says these days. Everytime he opens his mouth an embarrassing lie jumps out.
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
We could strategically lose to the Solomons in the OFC final and still play the repechage... though with Bazeley not sure if strategy will be required
The 2026 WC repecharge series will be a tourney, of about 6 teams (incl yes 2nd in OFC). Tourney likely to be in North America. The days of high stakes H&A Intercontinental Playoffs are over.
And we all know the AWs will coast through OFC qualifying when it returns to it's pre Covid H&A format. The players could literally coach themselves, and still be way too good for the Island teams.
With the intercontinental playoff previously being home/away at FIFA level, the OFC side would still have to go away if they won, now with the direct ticket, they could qualify for the World Cup without ever leaving the Tropics. Would there even be any way of stopping that? If OFC members brought it forward and it passed 10-1, FIFA could possibly just say 'the members voted for this and we respect the democratic process'.
There are alot of things wrong with FIFA. But I'd consider it highly highly unlikely that they would allow a Confederation to 'gang up' on clearly the best nation in the tinpot OFC, and allow WC qualification and it's $15M odd payday to come down to some sham of a one off tourney.
If busy Confeds like UEFA with Nations League & Euro qualifying can also also find space for H&A WC qualifying with pools of 5-6 teams - FIFA knows OFC has plenty of time to organise proper H&A qualifying. Anything less and they leave themselves open to a $15M damages appeal/lawsuit by NZF. NZF might rightly try & lodge a case that OFC lacking integrity, be disbanded, and just gobbled up into a greater AFC.
FIFA also deep down want their new shiny 48 team WC to showcase the increasing depth in world football, with lots of close games. They don't want Fiji rocking up and being thrashed 12-0 by Germany.
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
We could strategically lose to the Solomons in the OFC final and still play the repechage... though with Bazeley not sure if strategy will be required
The 2026 WC repecharge series will be a tourney, of about 6 teams (incl yes 2nd in OFC). Tourney likely to be in North America. The days of high stakes H&A Intercontinental Playoffs are over.
And we all know the AWs will coast through OFC qualifying when it returns to it's pre Covid H&A format. The players could literally coach themselves, and still be way too good for the Island teams.
With the intercontinental playoff previously being home/away at FIFA level, the OFC side would still have to go away if they won, now with the direct ticket, they could qualify for the World Cup without ever leaving the Tropics. Would there even be any way of stopping that? If OFC members brought it forward and it passed 10-1, FIFA could possibly just say 'the members voted for this and we respect the democratic process'.
There are alot of things wrong with FIFA. But I'd consider it highly highly unlikely that they would allow a Confederation to 'gang up' on clearly the best nation in the tinpot OFC, and allow WC qualification and it's $15M odd payday to come down to some sham of a one off tourney.
If busy Confeds like UEFA with Nations League & Euro qualifying can also also find space for H&A WC qualifying with pools of 5-6 teams - FIFA knows OFC has plenty of time to organise proper H&A qualifying. Anything less and they leave themselves open to a $15M damages appeal/lawsuit by NZF. NZF might rightly try & lodge a case that OFC lacking integrity be disbanded, and just gobbled up into a greater AFC.
FIFA also deep down want their new shiny 48 team WC to showcase the increasing depth in world football, with lots of close games. They don't want Fiji rocking up and being thrashed 12-0 by Germany.
FIFA is about politics, and in their system every country gets one vote. Oceania will never vote to disband itself - especially not with the expanded WC opportunity - and almost no one running for FIFA top office would consider risking the Oceania voting bloc (it's not huge, but could be critical in FPP type elections). Perhaps someone at FIFA level, one day, might want to explore getting rid of it - but if Asia don't want us, there's no way the FIFA bigwigs risk losing Asian support either...
FIFA won't care to any huge degree how OFC does it qualifying. If OFC cry poverty, logistics, we need a tournament etc, FIFA won't be too bothered. At the end of the day, palms get greased in this part of the world as an inconvenient part of allowing more teams from the big, cashed up confederations to attend the big dance. That's all it is.
If FIFA actually cared about what football fans actually want, they wouldn't be making these changes. But they know they have a unique business model, with the "product" so globally popular that they can do literally anything and it does not set them back one iota.
If a billion people boycotted watching the next WC in protest at the changes, they'd be reversed in a nano-second. But we all know that's not going to happen - because football isn't like any other product. I don't like my shoes, or my bread, I'll buy another brand - there's no other football World Cup. So they got us - you, me, everyone who loves the World Cup. And they'd give less that the steam off a cow-pat's worth of care about whether NZ fans are happy or not about the games our FA arranges or doesn't - because it doesn't affect them at all whether we're strong or not.
If we want change, we would need to make it happen ourselves at our own level (dual squads, expand OFC, organise tournaments etc) - although as this thread has shown, changing things in positive proactive ways might not exactly be the strong point of our football administrators...
I think it has been a tragedy losing the playoff game because a meaningful and intense game at home has been shown to get the passions of the local fans and the media going and get the crowds turning out.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
It places a lot of pressure on the Nix because they’re our only hope of seeing a good level of competitive football in NZ in a cup or finals series or down the straight of an attempt to become the Premiers.
We could strategically lose to the Solomons in the OFC final and still play the repechage... though with Bazeley not sure if strategy will be required
Has to get through Olympic qualifying first.
A few months too late for New Zealand Football. https://t.co/pSz97LKUs5
— Phillip Rollo (@ByPhillipRollo) August 28, 2023
A few months too late for New Zealand Football. https://t.co/pSz97LKUs5
— Phillip Rollo (@ByPhillipRollo) August 28, 2023
What's that say?
An aplogy from Pragnell about his incompetence?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/world-game/300959616/former-all-whites-target-john-herdman-quits-canada-job-to-coach-toronto-fc
kind pleased we didnt "get" our man, if this is as committed to the Canadian national team
kind pleased we didnt "get" our man, if this is as committed to the Canadian national team
Inaugural coach of Auckland A League team, balls my word.
Inaugural coach of Auckland A League team, balls my word.
Danny Hay far more likely.
The MLS is far ahead of the ALM, and right now the gap is widening - revenue growth, crowds, profile, marquee players etc etc.
Inter Miami have Busquets, Alba & the GOAT.
Nix have Ball, Zawada & Wootten.
Still if Herdman got sacked by Toronto and was desperate for a gig, it could happen.
It could happen, but the Toronto FC to NZF pipeline is zero from one currently.
It could happen, but the Toronto FC to NZF pipeline is zero from one currently.
0.2 from one actually
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/world-game/300959616/former-all-whites-target-john-herdman-quits-canada-job-to-coach-toronto-fc
kind pleased we didnt "get" our man, if this is as committed to the Canadian national team
kind pleased we didnt "get" our man, if this is as committed to the Canadian national team
"To our Canadian players and our fans, I want to reiterate my commitment to Canada Soccer and the growing of this program. At the World Cup in Qatar, our men showed the world that they belong at that level. I'm not going anywhere. We still have a job to do, and the objective is to take this team to the next level in 2026."
I still think he was trying to use the New Zealand job to get leverage over the federation in Canada to get what he wanted in terms of funding for his program and I also believe he led the New Zealand FA to believe that he would take the All Whites job if offered.
He has done tremendous things for the sport in Canada and both the men's and women's program and I still have a lot of fondness for his time here, but I think his motivational tactics were starting to fall on deaf ears and the team wasn't playing with the same passion for him as they had before. I also firmly believe that a second four-year international cycle under a manager is never as good as the first and since Canada Soccer had no money to fire him, this is the best possible outcome for us. It was already feeling like it had gone a bit stale. I am very worried about who we will hire in his place, but I think a change was needed and this was the only way it was happening.
Toronto FC will be an interesting first management position in club football. They're an absolute mess, they have a huge wage bill and big expectations. Lorenzo Insigne stormed off the practice pitch last week in a fit. They've lost 10 straight and have only scored in two of those matches. Herdman loves a project and his enthusiasm should be a breath of fresh air, but I wonder how long that lasts...
I hope Darren Bazeley works out for you.
Canada should hire Des Buckingham
Canada should hire Des Buckingham
NO!
They should hire Baze so that we are rid and have the spot free for Herdman when he leaves/gets sacked from TFC or Des when the Arabs do similar.
People here really think we should have waited it out with him? He clearly wasn't particularly keen on the job just using it for leverage.
I'll tell you what would have happened - he'd have decided on leaving the Canada gig, we'd have "competed" with Toronto for his signature, clown journos would be tooting that we were about to sign him again, and in the end.... he'd have used us for leverage again and still signed with Toronto FC.
Just give up the damn ghost - who wants a coach who only halfheartedly wants the job, how are they meant to motivate the players ffs?
At least Bazeley has shown commitment to football in this country and never had any ulterior motives in pursuing the job.
I'll tell you what would have happened - he'd have decided on leaving the Canada gig, we'd have "competed" with Toronto for his signature, clown journos would be tooting that we were about to sign him again, and in the end.... he'd have used us for leverage again and still signed with Toronto FC.
Just give up the damn ghost - who wants a coach who only halfheartedly wants the job, how are they meant to motivate the players ffs?
At least Bazeley has shown commitment to football in this country and never had any ulterior motives in pursuing the job.
Honestly, the calamitous final months of Herdmans time as Canada boss, as well as his tendency to go into bat against the federation and the fact that he actually hasn't accomplished anything since qualifying back in 2021 shows that in some ways, we may even have dodged a bullet... but that's probably an unpopular opinion
Honestly, the calamitous final months of Herdmans time as Canada boss, as well as his tendency to go into bat against the federation and the fact that he actually hasn't accomplished anything since qualifying back in 2021 shows that in some ways, we may even have dodged a bullet... but that's probably an unpopular opinion
Hey qualified Canadan for 1st world cup in 40 years what more of a achievement are you expecting?
Be interested to know if any other 'Kiwis' there apart from Bazeley, Bullock & Temple. Folks decry the lack of NZ born coaches high up in NZ football, but without the right quals hard to get there.
https://www.oceaniafootball.com/16-coaches-complete-ofc-pro-licence-course-in-new-zealand/
16 COACHES COMPLETE OFC PRO LICENCE COURSE IN NEW ZEALANDhttps://www.oceaniafootball.com/16-coaches-complete-ofc-pro-licence-course-in-new-zealand/
Participants included New Zealand Head Coach Darren Bazeley, his assistant Martin Bullock, Wellington Phoenix A-League Women’s Head Coach Paul Temple, Fiji Football Association Technical Director Tim Jankowski, and Fédération de Tahitienne Football Technical Director Patrice Flaccadori.
Be interested to know if any other 'Kiwis' there apart from Bazeley, Bullock & Temple. Folks decry the lack of NZ born coaches high up in NZ football, but without the right quals hard to get there.
https://www.oceaniafootball.com/16-coaches-complete-ofc-pro-licence-course-in-new-zealand/
16 COACHES COMPLETE OFC PRO LICENCE COURSE IN NEW ZEALANDhttps://www.oceaniafootball.com/16-coaches-complete-ofc-pro-licence-course-in-new-zealand/
Participants included New Zealand Head Coach Darren Bazeley, his assistant Martin Bullock, Wellington Phoenix A-League Women’s Head Coach Paul Temple, Fiji Football Association Technical Director Tim Jankowski, and Fédération de Tahitienne Football Technical Director Patrice Flaccadori.
So potential Right Backs on the AWs website:
Bindon, Ingham, Elliot, Kirwan, Payne, Tuiloma, Wilkins.
Payne would probably be number one, with Kirwan second?
Mysterious vanishing men: Storm Roux and James McGarry.
And seeing we’re including LoI: Deklan Wynne.
You’d assume Elliot and Tuiloma would struggle due to lack of minutes. On the other hand Elliot was a stand out at the Nix and his unfortunate situation doesn’t seem entirely of his own making. And Smith has only played a few more minutes.
It seems to me that almost anyone there (perhaps with the exception of Tuiloma), but Bindon who is a CB, is used to playing as an attacking RB.
What order would you have ranked these guys before the last window? And now?
Bindon, Ingham, Elliot, Kirwan, Payne, Tuiloma, Wilkins.
Payne would probably be number one, with Kirwan second?
Mysterious vanishing men: Storm Roux and James McGarry.
And seeing we’re including LoI: Deklan Wynne.
You’d assume Elliot and Tuiloma would struggle due to lack of minutes. On the other hand Elliot was a stand out at the Nix and his unfortunate situation doesn’t seem entirely of his own making. And Smith has only played a few more minutes.
It seems to me that almost anyone there (perhaps with the exception of Tuiloma), but Bindon who is a CB, is used to playing as an attacking RB.
What order would you have ranked these guys before the last window? And now?
McGarry & Wynne play on the left. And so predominantly does Wilkins.
McGarry & Wynne play on the left. And so predominantly does Wilkins.
I assumed that if we’re open to playing a CB at RB, we’d also be open to FBs who can play on either wing.
We saw that with Roux tonight for CC. Montgomery had McGarry on both sides cutting in and shooting off his left iirc.
All potentially better attacking options than Bindon if we’re playing our FBs as attacking.
Storm Roux is asking some big questions about AW selection. Something is definitely not right there.
Time for our media men and women to do some digging.
Time for our media men and women to do some digging.