But what if the goal never comes? It's quite possible that he never scores an A-League goal. He has improved this year but you can't say he has been knocking on the door or even vaguely threatening to score. I personally can't envisage it given all I've seen from him over the years. I'd love to be proven wrong...
Thankfully the goal has now come. Sure it was probably going in but hes on the score sheet now
But what if the goal never comes? It's quite possible that he never scores an A-League goal. He has improved this year but you can't say he has been knocking on the door or even vaguely threatening to score. I personally can't envisage it given all I've seen from him over the years. I'd love to be proven wrong...
Thankfully the goal has now come. Sure it was probably going in but hes on the score sheet now
An ounce more luck and he could have 3 goals this season. Inches wide when through one v one a few months back, and hit the post as well against Adelaide. I questioned his quality early on, but he's doing well now, esp considering Chiefy has had him doing different roles to fit what the team needs.
Could be an important player next season, if a few move on. Even the remainder of this campaign, now the monkey is off the back.
That 1v1 was simply a poor effort. It was not close, and if it was the keeper would have saved it.
Him hitting the post vs Adelaide was a great effort but he'd done poorly upon receiving the ball to make it such a low percentage chance. A better first touch and he'd probably have been able to put somebody in.
But what I will say about the goal he did score is that he was as influential as anyone in that goal. His quick-thinking & perfect first time ball to Barbarouses made it all possible. And of course his Sydney assist was tidy as well.
He's done more than enough now to keep himself in the conversation for decent minutes, but I think he still has work to do to earn an extension (his contract iirc is up at the end of next season).
And one of my favourite goals of this season where he makes a tackle high up on the right, and feeds Mo Al-Taay who puts a pinpoint cross over the defense to Kraev who buries it.
Overall for me OVH is very much in net positive on his contribution for this season. If he can finish a bit better he’ll have a great career.
Re the chat on the two horse race for the title, I wouldn't entirely write off Sydney just yet. Got a game in hand over us and CCM, still have both teams to play and are currently the most in-form side in the comp. Does give our game with them on the 16th extra importance if it were needed.
Re the chat on the two horse race for the title, I wouldn't entirely write off Sydney just yet. Got a game in hand over us and CCM, still have both teams to play and are currently the most in-form side in the comp. Does give our game with them on the 16th extra importance if it were needed.
And it is the last team to give us a hiding, back in December.
For our first goal he’s back to goal pressed by 1 guy with another coming in, going nowhere and he finds a fantastic back heel to Pennington who takes it up field and lays on a great cross.
For our second goal he’s beleaguered and he beats two opponents and with remarkable speed of thought plays a perfect ball in behind for Kosta to run in on, and this time he does the rest. The speed of the transition perhaps leading to the defense errors or the two players arriving in the box behind them. Lots of ways that could have turned in to a goal for us!
Massive credit to Welnix and Chief for bringing him in. I think we’re still in the title race because of him.
The other thing with Faghani and the first goal is he’s obliged to let the Pennington foul go as he’s just let a very similar one go the other way.
I also think the end of the second half pick up was a psychological snap of something going our way after the first goal. 2-0 maybe we’re buried. 1-0 it’s very doable and the end of that half imo reminded us that we were the ones chasing the title.
I feel also that before the game there were a few players who still had a bit of freshness- Hughes, Salas, Sutton and Van Hattum. Al-Taay not looking tired, but maybe he never does? Perhaps Pennington has come back with a bit of zip too. Everyone else was struggling with a bit of fatigue imo. Rufer’s pen the previous week seemed to be a classic example.
So yeh- I thought Hughes might be one of the guys who might power us home in these last few games with headers and controlled possession. Concerning to see him like that. I wonder if we’ll try a five without him? Tbh I’d rather Sutts in a back 5 than LKH and LKH out wide. Just an instinct thing in that I feel Sutts might be better narrow. Then if necessary at the end of a game Conchie can go in the middle and one of Al-Taay/Pennington/Salas can cover LKH at LB.
But Italiano seems fairly innovative so we’ll see. Being overly attacking hurt us against City, with the corollary of playing late in Melbourne.
Certainly I’d be feeling a lot better about the rest of the season if Hughes were available.
For our first goal he’s back to goal pressed by 1 guy with another coming in, going nowhere and he finds a fantastic back heel to Pennington who takes it up field and lays on a great cross.
For our second goal he’s beleaguered and he beats two opponents and with remarkable speed of thought plays a perfect ball in behind for Kosta to run in on, and this time he does the rest. The speed of the transition perhaps leading to the defense errors or the two players arriving in the box behind them. Lots of ways that could have turned in to a goal for us!
Massive credit to Welnix and Chief for bringing him in. I think we’re still in the title race because of him.
The other thing with Faghani and the first goal is he’s obliged to let the Pennington foul go as he’s just let a very similar one go the other way.
I also think the end of the second half pick up was a psychological snap of something going our way after the first goal. 2-0 maybe we’re buried. 1-0 it’s very doable and the end of that half imo reminded us that we were the ones chasing the title.
I feel also that before the game there were a few players who still had a bit of freshness- Hughes, Salas, Sutton and Van Hattum. Al-Taay not looking tired, but maybe he never does? Perhaps Pennington has come back with a bit of zip too. Everyone else was struggling with a bit of fatigue imo. Rufer’s pen the previous week seemed to be a classic example.
So yeh- I thought Hughes might be one of the guys who might power us home in these last few games with headers and controlled possession. Concerning to see him like that. I wonder if we’ll try a five without him? Tbh I’d rather Sutts in a back 5 than LKH and LKH out wide. Just an instinct thing in that I feel Sutts might be better narrow. Then if necessary at the end of a game Conchie can go in the middle and one of Al-Taay/Pennington/Salas can cover LKH at LB.
But Italiano seems fairly innovative so we’ll see. Being overly attacking hurt us against City, with the corollary of playing late in Melbourne.
Certainly I’d be feeling a lot better about the rest of the season if Hughes were available.
Agree with the above. If the sequence is taken in its entirety, the second goal we scored should be framed and hung on every YF wall for posterity to admire. The whole sequence (Salas and Barbarouses) was simply unreal, and should not have happened; yet here we are. The moment I saw Kosta take a deliberate left turn, away from the two Syd FC defenders, I kinda expected to hear "oh, shark" from Redmayne :-)
Everyone on the pod seems to think that Kraev absolutely was in an offside position when Kosta played his final touch before the OG, but that his involvement wasn't enough for the goal to be ruled out for offside.
Is this actually the case? Has this been confirmed by a referee offering that assessment? In any case, I think Kraev might have been just onside, just as Kosta was immediately before.
Everyone on the pod seems to think that Kraev absolutely was in an offside position when Kosta played his final touch before the OG, but that his involvement wasn't enough for the goal to be ruled out for offside.
Is this actually the case? Has this been confirmed by a referee offering that assessment? In any case, I think Kraev might have been just onside, just as Kosta was immediately before.
Kraev was definitely beyond the last defender by about a foot but he looked very close to being behind the line of the ball when Kosta played it, meaning he would've been onside. It was either that or the obscure technicalities of the interference part of the law that saw the decision overturned.
In the offside discussion, also have to note where the linesman returns to to put his flag up. He ran back to close to halfway and put his flag up indicating where he thought the initial offside was. So all the offisde discussion should be concentrating on where Kosta was when the ball was played to him.
Also note in the photo above, he is 1m behind the play and if there is a subsequent decision to be made on wether BK is ahead of the ball, he is likely to get it wrong. From his angle BK is ahead of the ball, hence why VAR is needed.
In summary, would the offside discussion be the same if the ball reached Kraev, and not the SFC defender? Does the fact it was an own goal matter to the question?
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
2ndBest
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
I put up some lines, not able to copy the image, but looks like BK's knee is 2 pixels offside. I guess goal would be ruled out if he would have scored.
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
2ndBest
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
I put up some lines, not able to copy the image, but looks like BK's knee is 2 pixels offside. I guess goal would be ruled out if he would have scored.
My attempt doesn't help with trying to determine an offside or not. Interestingly, the blue lines are the exact same length and angle, and so are the red. Just proves how unreliable the eye test is!
If kraev is offside, then the goal should not stand. His presence has caused the defender to act in that way and put the ball is his own net.
Same way as how if an offside player obstructs a keepers view of a shot.
Kraev looks offside and if he is the VAR has missed a clear and obvious error. However the decision took a while so surely they looked at it. Would love to hear the process taken to give the goal.
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
2ndBest
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
I put up some lines, not able to copy the image, but looks like BK's knee is 2 pixels offside. I guess goal would be ruled out if he would have scored.
My attempt doesn't help with trying to determine an offside or not. Interestingly, the blue lines are the exact same length and angle, and so are the red. Just proves how unreliable the eye test is!
Well yes , your lines don’t mean much as the camera angle is still deceiving right?
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
2ndBest
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
I put up some lines, not able to copy the image, but looks like BK's knee is 2 pixels offside. I guess goal would be ruled out if he would have scored.
My attempt doesn't help with trying to determine an offside or not. Interestingly, the blue lines are the exact same length and angle, and so are the red. Just proves how unreliable the eye test is!
Well yes , your lines don’t mean much as the camera angle is still deceiving right?
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
2ndBest
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
I put up some lines, not able to copy the image, but looks like BK's knee is 2 pixels offside. I guess goal would be ruled out if he would have scored.
My attempt doesn't help with trying to determine an offside or not. Interestingly, the blue lines are the exact same length and angle, and so are the red. Just proves how unreliable the eye test is!
Well yes , your lines don’t mean much as the camera angle is still deceiving right?
Your 'offside' blue line is wrong. The middle blue is to slanted to the right, this angle would be even more left, it may align perfect with the pitch grass line on the screen left edge.
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
2ndBest
Yeah watching again he is definately beyond the defenders, but may be behind the ball?image.png419.22 KB
I put up some lines, not able to copy the image, but looks like BK's knee is 2 pixels offside. I guess goal would be ruled out if he would have scored.
My attempt doesn't help with trying to determine an offside or not. Interestingly, the blue lines are the exact same length and angle, and so are the red. Just proves how unreliable the eye test is!
Well yes , your lines don’t mean much as the camera angle is still deceiving right?
Your 'offside' blue line is wrong. The middle blue is to slanted to the right, this angle would be even more left, it may align perfect with the pitch grass line on the screen left edge.
I'm not sure you understand how he has set up the lines. Both the two blue and two red lines are the same angle as each other.
One blue line is on the grass cut which should be a straight line and one red line is on the straight white line of the beginning of the box. The other blue and red lines are placed across the ball to show the offside line.
All the schematic really does is prove that due to distortion of angle and picture distortion there is no way to tell from one frame if it is offside or not.
I assume VAR uses some system where by they can measure exact distance on the fly? Maybe they have some program which can draw a straight line across the pitch based on several frames? Anyone have any idea how it works?
I'd be very surprised if VAR doesn't correct for the curvature of the lens.
It absolutely has to. No point having it otherwise. I think its been fairly well proven at this point that it is extremely accurate. The only inaccuracies it seems to have is at what frame you draw the lines and how you interpret the offside rules which are of course all human error
Red Lines - Establish the vanishing point as where the horizontal lines on the pitch as evidenced by penalty area and grass cuttings intersect in the distance. Any horizontal line on the pitch will meet at this point.
Blue Line - Line drawn from the ball to the vanishing point. This is the offside line for purposes of being behind the ball.
(believe it or not the 3 red and the 1 blue line represent lines that are parallel to each other)
Purple Line - Horizontal - drawn from his foot on the ground horizontally to the blue offside line to establish how far across the pitch the player is and where he should be measured on the offside line
Purple Line - Vertical - from where the horizontal purple line intersects the blue offside line draw a vertical line. Every bit of the player should be behind this line
Great post, cool to know. I genuinely do wonder what the right call would have been if Kraev was in an offside position. I agree with the guys on the pod that it does seem harsh that that wouldn't be enough to chalk off a goal.
Red Lines - Establish the vanishing point as where the horizontal lines on the pitch as evidenced by penalty area and grass cuttings intersect in the distance. Any horizontal line on the pitch will meet at this point.
Blue Line - Line drawn from the ball to the vanishing point. This is the offside line for purposes of being behind the ball.
(believe it or not the 3 red and the 1 blue line represent lines that are parallel to each other)
Purple Line - Horizontal - drawn from his foot on the ground horizontally to the blue offside line to establish how far across the pitch the player is and where he should be measured on the offside line
Purple Line - Vertical - from where the horizontal purple line intersects the blue offside line draw a vertical line. Every bit of the player should be behind this line
