My deep dive with Shaun Gill as I spoke to @WgtnPhoenixFC's director of football about 13-year vision behind a transfer explosion Europe is "taking seriously".
Interesting comments about overseas clubs targeting ever younger players. Probably explains the rumoured overseas interest in 19 yr old Lukas K-H even though he only has a handful of ALM starts.
What do ALM clubs do if these players are on longer term contracts like LK-H? Take the offer now or wait, and hope their value increases further. Never guaranteed, and always that risk they do an ACL or similar career stalling injury.
“What we also know too is that the overseas market is looking for players younger and younger. We want to have consistency in the transfer market but we also want to have consistency in terms of top six, top four and actually try to get closer to winning it at the same time.”
Gill mentioned the fact that “the overseas market is looking for players young and younger”.
Does that alter the Phoenix’s approach to identifying talent?
“The first entry point into the boys space is U14s. We’re working through some stuff with NZ Football and the FIFA TDS (Talent Development Scheme) around what that looks like and how we can work more closely with NZ Football and the federations, and grow the scouting network.
“That’s the key thing. We have to know the kids and know where they are. You also have to be able to work with them if they’re not ready to move to Wellington.
“That’s the other issue – what’s the right age to move and leave home? For one player it’s something different for another player. It also comes into cost etc. We’re definitely trying to identify them at that U14s age group.”
Wellington’s recent dealings with Premier League side Bournemouth, 10-time French champions Saint-Etienne and MLS side Portland Timbers are proving beneficial in more ways than one.
Aside from the financial aspect, those transfers – on top of Sarpreet Singh’s move to Bayern Munich in 2019 – is opening doors for the Phoenix.
“Interestingly enough, out of dealing with those clubs, what happens now is you go into the market and potentially we’re looking at a couple of loan visa players and potentially we’re happy enough to look at some young players who have that drive and ambition to kick on,” Gill began.
“All of a sudden you talk to a few clubs in Europe and you say we’ve just sold this player to Bournemouth, this player to St-Etienne and all of a sudden they start taking you seriously. That’s one of the key things that has come out of it for us.
I get why the nix are thinking about kids as young as 14 and getting them into the Wellington scene and the Nix academy - it's all about the long term training payments once the player is sold. But 14 is exceptionally young to be away from home, maybe some kids could cope but most wouldn't. Even with the best care they'd struggle with school and football. Massive risks associated for the club when you're actually managing the parenting of a child rather than just the football side of life.
Unfortunately it's the pathway for the elite. Unless you live in Wellington. Better than no pathway though I guess.
Given the academy is in Upper Hutt, even the elite in Wellington will be thinking twice about driving their kids 45 mins to Upper Hutt for trainings every second night, especially if school is city central.
They might be looking young but there is still the FIFA imposed minimum age of 18 for international transfers.
I'm also not a fan of the Nix getting $1-2 Mil NZ and in 2/3 years time Bournemouth pocketing £5+ mil (a lot more I'm sure in Paulsen's case). We end up being the losers.
Also if this statement is true: "You always know that the visa players tend to get better in their second season once they settle in", why do we not give our Latin players a second season? Hernandez and Cunningham both improved the longer they were in the A League.
Unfortunately it's the pathway for the elite. Unless you live in Wellington. Better than no pathway though I guess.
Given the academy is in Upper Hutt, even the elite in Wellington will be thinking twice about driving their kids 45 mins to Upper Hutt for trainings every second night, especially if school is city central.
That's often the life of a parent, driving your kid all over the show for sport. Rural mums & dads do it all the time. I think Eli Just grew up in Palmerston North, and his folks would be shuttling him down to Porirua and Ole constantly, until I'm guessing he started to live onsite.
They might be looking young but there is still the FIFA imposed minimum age of 18 for international transfers.
I'm also not a fan of the Nix getting $1-2 Mil NZ and in 2/3 years time Bournemouth pocketing £5+ mil (a lot more I'm sure in Paulsen's case). We end up being the losers.
Also if this statement is true: "You always know that the visa players tend to get better in their second season once they settle in", why do we not give our Latin players a second season? Hernandez and Cunningham both improved the longer they were in the A League.
Yeah interesting point that last one. But that's the problem when you discover a gem like Davila, the Latino benchmark gets set high. Following the Mexican Sandoval and Sasse only get a season each. I think if the Nix could afford Salas they would have kept him for more than just the one campaign on loan.
We would probably be only offering a minimum wage deal, so those options back home are probably far more tempting.
His reasoning is actually surprisingly sound. Whether it happens back in Europe or not it doesn't sound like the door is completely shut back here either. Although Chiefy strikes me as someone who doesn't fudge around waiting.. 😅
No. The Nix will I imagine try and find another Hooper, Hemed or Zawada. A big bodied visa striker, maybe with some recent injury history, that makes them a bit cheaper. The transfer fees the club have received this year, you would hope allow Chief & Gill to sign someone like that.
Or it could be a loan deal, for a younger player with his parent club wanting him to get game time somewhere. Gill quoted in that A Leagues article this week, saying off the back of the transfers of Paulsen, Old & Surman - overseas clubs can see the ALM as a quality league to player development, so more open to potential loan s down under.
Yipe they looked closely at Faulds but didn't pull the trigger. Maybe they are waiting to see what happens with LK-H, subject of a sale rumour. He gets sold for a 7 figure sum like the other 3, Welnix give the green light to sign a quality visa no 9. I'm just making this up, but whether they commit to signing a real quality overseas guy up front will be all about what the club can or can't afford.
Supyk isn't ready, and you need sometime different to Kosta to offer a Plan B.
But I do remember El Grap who used to post on here, and who's opinions were well respected, once say that in his view Watson was a better player now than when he last played for the Nix. Admittedly El Grap would have posted that a few years ago, and Watson is now 31.
They might be looking young but there is still the FIFA imposed minimum age of 18 for international transfers.
I'm also not a fan of the Nix getting $1-2 Mil NZ and in 2/3 years time Bournemouth pocketing £5+ mil (a lot more I'm sure in Paulsen's case). We end up being the losers.
Also if this statement is true: "You always know that the visa players tend to get better in their second season once they settle in", why do we not give our Latin players a second season? Hernandez and Cunningham both improved the longer they were in the A League.
They might be looking young but there is still the FIFA imposed minimum age of 18 for international transfers.
I'm also not a fan of the Nix getting $1-2 Mil NZ and in 2/3 years time Bournemouth pocketing £5+ mil (a lot more I'm sure in Paulsen's case). We end up being the losers.
Also if this statement is true: "You always know that the visa players tend to get better in their second season once they settle in", why do we not give our Latin players a second season? Hernandez and Cunningham both improved the longer they were in the A League.
Cunningham had a 2nd season
Exactly my point. His second was a lot better then his first. I wanted him to stay longer, was an exciting player to watch.
Considering Chief's comments after the signing of Retre I expect we'll have another signing by the end of this week? I'm quite excited considering the comments around the Nix being recognized by larger clubs with our recent player sales. Maybe we can pick up a bigger name player on loan from a European club? Or someone with a lot of potential?
In reference to the discussions in the AC thread, last night was evident of how much Zawada's height and presence up front was missed. If you looked at SM, they had Sawyer their goal scorer who is 195cm.
So, like I and others have done in the past, I decided to compile a small list of some over 190cm free agent strikers from transfermarkt. Before I continue, I understand we highly likely won't be able to afford the first two options shown even with the recent sales we've made with Paulsen, Old, Surman, and still maybe yet LKH.
Zinho Gano (30) 198cm - Born in Belgium but plays for the Guinea-Bissau national team. Lots of experience in the Jupiler League, pretty good goalscoring record there as well, 58 goals in 183 games. Current market value is €900k (1.6 million in NZD). https://www.transfermarkt.com/zinho-gano/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/182446
Lucas Joao (30) 193cm - Born in Portugal and of Angolan descent, he made two appearances for the senior team before switching to the Angola national team. A few of you have probably already heard of this guy, 71 goals in the EFL Championship, also played in the Liga Portugal, CSL, and QSL. Current market value is €800k (1.4 million in NZD). https://www.transfermarkt.com/lucas-joao/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/234787
Maarten Pouwels (25 nearly 26) 200cm - The most affordable and tallest out of the three, really yet to settle down besides the KK Divisie, had a spell with Louisville City in 2023 but only made three starts. Current market value is €250k (450k in NZD). https://www.transfermarkt.com/maarten-pouwels/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/583816
Wusty - surely it's time for 1.89 metre...........................Pierre-Michel Lasogga! You will never live that down I'm afraid. The Chinese whisper that took on a life of it's own. Lasogga now with Schalke 04 II.
Good little list. Though with visa players, the free agent angle don't seem so important, as a bit of chatter about possible loan signings coming in.
The current ages of the Wellington Phoenix's starting eleven in the Aussie Cup defeat vs South Melbourne:
19, 20, 32, 20, 22, 24, 20, 19, 18, 18, 17
Five teenagers, three 20 year olds, only one bloke over 24 (that being captain and designated babysitter Scott Wootton) pic.twitter.com/qO7GE3dYR8
Wusty - surely it's time for 1.89 metre...........................Pierre-Michel Lasogga! You will never live that down I'm afraid. The Chinese whisper that took on a life of it's own. Lasogga now with Schalke 04 II.
Good little list. Though with visa players, the free agent angle don't seem so important, as a bit of chatter about possible loan signings coming in.
The current ages of the Wellington Phoenix's starting eleven in the Aussie Cup defeat vs South Melbourne:
19, 20, 32, 20, 22, 24, 20, 19, 18, 18, 17
Five teenagers, three 20 year olds, only one bloke over 24 (that being captain and designated babysitter Scott Wootton) pic.twitter.com/qO7GE3dYR8
Come on coochiee, is that really necessary? I had just joined the forum when I did all that, I don't care if it's become a joke here, I'm just trying to be helpful.
I know my track record on here has been mixed and I've got plenty of things wrong in the past or said some stuff that can be considered out of touch or ridiculous, but like everyone else here I do what I can to contribute.
Also who knows at the moment whether the possible signings from Asia are going to be a striker or keeper.
I think it was the novelty of mid week beers that had me going all in on Sawyer in last night's match thread. But if we are looking at cheap options I'm still half heartedly open to it. He's someone who has been in a pro environment before, and would be coming in match fit. Looks like he could muscle over anyone in the box, and has that height we'd otherwise be lacking in guys like Kosta, Marco, and Ball. Has there ever been a precident for that sort of Nix signing an NPL player on the back of a solid FFA cup performance before?
I think it was the novelty of mid week beers that had me going all in on Sawyer in last night's match thread. But if we are looking at cheap options I'm still half heartedly open to it. He's someone who has been in a pro environment before, and would be coming in match fit. Looks like he could muscle over anyone in the box, and has that height we'd otherwise be lacking in guys like Kosta, Marco, and Ball. Has there ever been a precident for that sort of Nix signing an NPL player on the back of a solid FFA cup performance before?
Not that it made much difference in the greater scheme of things but remember when over the course of a season we all collectively willed Uffie into signing Niko Boxall as an emergency defense back up?
The irony being his goal had little to do with his height. He was allowed to find space between two defenders and hit a first time shot along the deck. Didn’t require strength, aerial prowess or any of it!
And don’t worry about Lasogga Wusty! He would have been a great shout. Seemed like a fascinating guy, and an interesting player. Back in the day we were linked with a Dutch guy called Putter which was good craic for a while. But Lasogga was the best thing on the forum in the last 4 years imo! Don’t think Coochie is having too much of a shot.
In reference to the discussions in the AC thread, last night was evident of how much Zawada's height and presence up front was missed. If you looked at SM, they had Sawyer their goal scorer who is 195cm.
So, like I and others have done in the past, I decided to compile a small list of some over 190cm free agent strikers from transfermarkt. Before I continue, I understand we highly likely won't be able to afford the first two options shown even with the recent sales we've made with Paulsen, Old, Surman, and still maybe yet LKH.
Zinho Gano (30) 198cm - Born in Belgium but plays for the Guinea-Bissau national team. Lots of experience in the Jupiler League, pretty good goalscoring record there as well, 58 goals in 183 games. Current market value is €900k (1.6 million in NZD). https://www.transfermarkt.com/zinho-gano/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/182446
Lucas Joao (30) 193cm - Born in Portugal and of Angolan descent, he made two appearances for the senior team before switching to the Angola national team. A few of you have probably already heard of this guy, 71 goals in the EFL Championship, also played in the Liga Portugal, CSL, and QSL. Current market value is €800k (1.4 million in NZD). https://www.transfermarkt.com/lucas-joao/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/234787
Maarten Pouwels (25 nearly 26) 200cm - The most affordable and tallest out of the three, really yet to settle down besides the KK Divisie, had a spell with Louisville City in 2023 but only made three starts. Current market value is €250k (450k in NZD). https://www.transfermarkt.com/maarten-pouwels/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/583816
youd think if we were in the market for those players we would have been in the market to keep Zawada.
My pick is either us trying to unearth another Zawada or getting a loan player (Seaun Gill has been saying that the relationships we're building by selling players into Europe are going both ways with loans)
