All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams
Terrible day. First the Backbencher fire, and now this terrible loss. I managed to cut my hand open when New Caledonia scored their second goal and I didn't notice until I was walking out from the Kings, so now my new All Whites jersey has blood down the side. FFS.
By the way I Heart Nix, I made it home. Dan didn't manage to get me killed.
Good to meet you two (Y)
ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH
Not having seen any of the game it is very hard to be too critical.
Have read many of the comments
These are the only things that I can come up with. Having played many games in these conditions I can understand how hard the assignment was in the first place. Having said that, the fact that NZ football has come a long way in the last few years and as we would have had the most professional players of any of these teams I am bitterly disappointed with this result as we should have done a lot better. I really think that there should be a lot of questions asked regarding this shocking result.NC are no mugs, but really should not have been within a bulls roar of the AW's.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Wrost New Zealand football performance ever, worst nz sporting performance ever? Doesn't matter how hard the comp was, what the weather was like this was a fucking disgrace.
How these so called proffesional players be anything but ashamed is beyond me.
Brazil is looking a long way off.
fuck man... I was looking forward to going to Brazil to support NZ... suppose I better use the cash for something else now.
FUCK THIS SHIT.
"No-one is denying that New Caledonia didn't deserve this, but if you don't think they'll get absolutely annihilated by the likes of Brazil, Uruguay, Spain, Mexico, Japan, then you may have to think again"
This kind of comment comes across as extremely churlish: The winning Oceania team won't give two hoots about these sentiments; all that will matter to them is that they are there(and NZ aren't). How many mugs in NZ made the same comments about us when we first started qualifying for the Confeds(remember the snidey comments after we got annihilated by France 5-0 in one Confed Tournament?). We sound like those NZ cricket fans who berate the Bangers and Zimbabwe, whilst ignoring our own humble beginnings in the game. As football followers we have to suck it up and learn from it.
Personally I think this tournament should spell the end for Viecelich, Bertos, Lockhead, and Killen: time to re-vamp the team methinks...
"Self-defence is an art I cultivate"
Gordon you are seriously saying to me that that pitch is up to international standards? It may have been ok for 1 or 2 games but there is no way it should have been used for 16.
Also where in my statement did I say that it's the refs fault or the pitches we lost, I was simply making a statement that the pitch is very poor.
[/quote]
Take your point about the referee - perhaps I'm answering a question on that subject more broadly.
But, as for the pitch, no, I won't accept that as a reason for not winning the tournament. The OFC Nations Cup 2002 was played in a mudbath and that suited New Zealand down to the ground. As I recall, the knock-out matches were shifted from North Harbour to Moutn Smart Stadium - I recall playing in friendly matches with Vanuatu and Solomon Islands for a New Zealand University XI and having a friendly with Australia cancelled because of a down pour at Bill McKinley Park. Did the matches go ahead? Yes, they did. Did New Zealand win and qualify for the 1999 FIFA Confederations Cup? Yes, they did.
Let's not belittle New Caledonia's achievement by complaining about these sorts of things - it's not a good look in defeat. We lost for football reasons.
There are FIFA World Cup qualifiers played on all sorts of pitches all over the planet Earth and they vary in their standards. Think Africa, think Carribbean, think Asia - The surface is rucked, sure, but its been rolled on a daily basis and given as much care and attention as the grounds staff can give it.
GGW
Again, no one has mentioned that the pitch was the reason we lost, my point is nothing to do with winning or losing it is solely that the pitch cannot take 16 games on it and stay in a suitable condition to play international football. The OFC had to have known that yet blindly pressed on. It may have been an international pitch for the first few games but it certainly isn't now.
Not having seen any of the game it is very hard to be too critical.
Have read many of the comments
These are the only things that I can come up with. Having played many games in these conditions I can understand how hard the assignment was in the first place. Having said that, the fact that NZ football has come a long way in the last few years and as we would have had the most professional players of any of these teams I am bitterly disappointed with this result as we should have done a lot better. I really think that there should be a lot of questions asked regarding this shocking result.NC are no mugs, but really should not have been within a bulls roar of the AW's.
Don't give me that shit about the "conditions", the whole team have been there for about 2 weeks. We lost because the players were poor combined with absolute woeful tactics.
Yea, brilliant idea playing Killen (a striker by the way) in holding midfield.....
Lochhead.... need I say more
don't even get me started on Brockie. JESUS. did you see that cross ? If you can call it that.
OMG WTF
why didnt we go earlier to acclimatize????
this is piss poor
some heads have to roll
congrats to them but unless a miracle happened overnight, we should be winning these games in a canter
the type of football we played is pathetic...
sack someone
Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka
http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka
Personally I think this tournament should spell the end for Viecelich, Bertos, Lockhead, and Killen: time to re-vamp the team methinks...
I don't have too much problem with Vicileich(except i can't spell his name) but it is time for him to step aside again and this time Ricki needs to respect his decision.
Bertos and Lockhead. agree 100%
Killen, he is still a good squad player and can do a job up front. but he should spend more time on the bench now depending on availability. He should not be squeezed into the midfield because he is not good enough up front.
If we build it, they will come...
Personally I think this tournament should spell the end for Viecelich, Bertos, Lockhead, and Killen: time to re-vamp the team methinks...
I don't have too much problem with Vicileich(except i can't spell his name) but it is time for him to step aside again and this time Ricki needs to respect his decision.
Bertos and Lockhead. agree 100%
Killen, he is still a good squad player and can do a job up front. but he should spend more time on the bench now depending on availability. He should not be squeezed into the midfield because he is not good enough up front.
mate, Vicileich (however you spell it) does one of two things when he's on the ball.
1. Kicks it long.
2. Passes back to the keeper.
He sucks the life out of football.
p.s we are down 1-0 but Riki decides not to bring on another striker... OHHHH NOOO what does he do? brings on Brockie and Rojas. Now listen, Rojas is good on the ball but he has no strength whatsoever. Too easy to push off. Light as a feather. Against physical sides like these island teams he's just not up to it. I would have liked to see Fallen on MUCH earlier. I mean WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO IN 5 MINUTES ????????
Did Riki get his coaching badge out of a weet-bix box ????
FFS.
why didnt we go earlier to acclimatize????
this is piss poor
Why would they? It's better to play friendlies in America against Central American teams and then travel back to Oceania than go to Solomons 5-6 days earlier to acclimatize to WORST conditions ever to play football in. LOL
I was shocked seeing this result, but NZL seem to continue way thay played through the group stage... another AW's flop when played at Pacific island.
Congrats to Caledonians, there is great final match coming, 4-3 in group stage with lots of referee mentioning...
Tahiti's result is as I expected. Will be thrilling match in the final.
I couldnt stop laughing at watching this All Whites team being out played in all aeras of the field in virtualy every match.
Basket weavers and Fishermen outclassed a team of professionals. And Good for New Caledonia as they were way better then the turd we were. Ricki needs to answer for this and these old farts of players really need to go ASAP.
Also i doubt who ever wins this will get thrashed at the Confed cup. They will have $1.3 mil in funds to get some friendsly happening and the way they play the "Beautiful game" Im sure they will win fans all over the world. Not football uglys like Herberts All Whites.
I wonder if NZ Football are now having second thoughts about not making an application to host the tournament?
More than anything, I'm pissed off that we've just given the football knockers another piece of ammunition (who will be the first media person to take a shot at the Halberg Award?). I'll be at the first home World Cup qualifier, but i wonder how many people that switched onto NZ Football at the Bahrain games will? This could have more of an impact than just not going to Brazil next year.
But after watching our first three games, it's not really a shock - we've looked disjointed from the start and failed to really dominate any of the games we've played, despite scoring early goals in the first three. For all our of supposed attacking weapons, we've scored just 4 goals in 4 games. To me, Rojas doesn't look up to international football yet and I'm not sure that Barbarouses has really earned the right to be an automatic first pick. And as for Gleeson...was anyone else having Jason Batty flashbacks every time he had the ball at his feet?
Interesting that 3-4-3 worked well when all we were expected to do was get bodies behind the ball and hold on (Bahrain, World Cup), but it's been a complete failure as soon as we've been in games that we had to win and where we'd be expected to dictate proceedings. Time to find a right back and give them the nod for the next 12 months
Putting an impartial hat on, I think it's great for Oceania football and best of luck to either Tahiti or New Caledonia in Brazil next year...given our recent results against El Salvador and Honduras, maybe Oceania football isn't as bad as we think.
Dunedin in September for our first home World Cup qualifier sounds like a good response to having to play in 35 degrees.
I actually thought Leo Bertos was okay throughout the tournmanet. Tommy Smith has a lot to answer for. He was useless today. Same goes for Michael McGlinchey and Chris Killen.
Also i doubt who ever wins this will get thrashed at the Confed cup. They will have $1.3 mil in funds to get some friendsly happening and the way they play the "Beautiful game" Im sure they will win fans all over the world. Not football uglys like Herberts All Whites.
They will get absolutely murdered. We would too, but not as badly.
"No-one is denying that New Caledonia didn't deserve this, but if you don't think they'll get absolutely annihilated by the likes of Brazil, Uruguay, Spain, Mexico, Japan, then you may have to think again"
This kind of comment comes across as extremely churlish: The winning Oceania team won't give two hoots about these sentiments; all that will matter to them is that they are there(and NZ aren't). How many mugs in NZ made the same comments about us when we first started qualifying for the Confeds(remember the snidey comments after we got annihilated by France 5-0 in one Confed Tournament?). We sound like those NZ cricket fans who berate the Bangers and Zimbabwe, whilst ignoring our own humble beginnings in the game. As football followers we have to suck it up and learn from it.
Personally I think this tournament should spell the end for Viecelich, Bertos, Lockhead, and Killen: time to re-vamp the team methinks...
You misunderstand, no-one is denying them their moment in the spotlight, and overall we just didn't do enough to get there. But this reality will reflect very badly on both the OFC and the All Whites, and that's pretty regretable.
I don't think those two results mean much at all - and we were bloody lucky to get one against Honduras at any rate.
Overall, its hard to think of anyone who had a good tournie. At no stage did we manage to keep the ball for any length of time and even when we were a goal down in the semi final we couldn't build sustained pressure.
Killen experiment was pretty ridiculous. At the age of 30 he just got selected to play 3 world cup qualifiers in a position he has never played once as a professional footballer. Clapham did a decent job v Honduras and should have been trusted. On this tournie's evidence three at the back vs lesser sides just gives up the initative and hands midfield and possession advantage over.
The pitch and the wood/killen combo up front probably convinced Herbert we should slog everything long (even more so than usual). But we also lacked the general willingness to make ourselves available and confidence to deal with the ball to feet under presure.
Having said that, we have lost to island nations before and will do again. We should still take care of business in the next round of qualifiers. If we can draw with Italy, then new caledonia can beat us. The beauty and the horror of the game.
This thread is so full of angst and ignorance that it's embarassing.
I'm disappointed that we lost today, but fairplay to New Caledonia and good luck to them or Tahiti in Brazil next year. I'll be supporting them wholeheartedly.
after the honduras and el salvador games and the development over the last few years i thought the all whites were improving. sadly we are actually worse than ever. we were shite all tournament and got worse. so many sitters missed, so many donkeys in the squad. a lucky win sunday makes us 3rd best team in oceania. go all whites
rojas, so special
Teza, if you dont think that the pitch is part of the reason we lost, then why carry on about it. It was an ok pitch.
We didnt have a game plan it seemed to me, to either enforce our way of playing, or to counter theirs. We seemed lost the whole time.
FFS the pitch was not good enough after a few games to play international football on full stop. I'm not talking about for just us, it was not of a good enough standard for all of the teams and not fair on any of them.
This is the show piece tournament for the OFC so you at least expect the pitch to be of a good quality to allow all the teams to fully express themselves. It is the responsibility of the confederation to provide the best surface they can for the players and in this case you can't say that that happened.
I don't think those two results mean much at all - and we were bloody lucky to get one against Honduras at any rate.
[/quote]
Again, no one has mentioned that the pitch was the reason we lost, my point is nothing to do with winning or losing it is solely that the pitch cannot take 16 games on it and stay in a suitable condition to play international football. The OFC had to have known that yet blindly pressed on. It may have been an international pitch for the first few games but it certainly isn't now.
[/quote]
Ok, rather than try reason, I'll go another way with this; I checked the pitch myself today, and it was playable. I stood on it. I looked at it. I watched the ball roll over the top of it. I'm not going to engage you on this topic again. You're wrong. I've got a phone number, if you want to talk it through, ring it.
Gordon
[/quote]
You have shown no reasoning what so ever Gordon.
A sheep paddock is playable that doesn't make it good enough for international football.
If you think I'm wrong for wanting the players at our showpiece tournament to have the best playing surface they can then that says a lot.
I don't think those two results mean much at all - and we were bloody lucky to get one against Honduras at any rate.
Yes they are roughly our level, but we were absolutely dominated for long periods in the game against Honduras, and the woodwork saved us more than once. We were lucky.
I don't think those two results mean much at all - and we were bloody lucky to get one against Honduras at any rate.
They'd probably be more used to playing in the heat and humid conditions, but that wasn't my point. It had more to do with the fact that these friendlies didn't really matter in the great scheme of things, and weren't a true reflection of relative abilities of all the sides involved. Everyone experimented with their line-ups, all sides were missing frontline players, and ultimately the motivation and mindset in these kind of games is very different to actual competetive football. So they're not really a great measuring stick.
You misunderstand, no-one is denying them their moment in the spotlight, and overall we just didn't do enough to get there. But this reality will reflect very badly on both the OFC and the All Whites, and that's pretty regretable
Well the NZ team had the opportunity to avoid " reality reflect(ing)very badly on the OFC and the All Whites " and failed, so they have only themselves to blame for this nightmare scenario. So what is most regrettable is the fact that this situation is self-created.Who are we to be dismissive of the eventual OFC winners chances anyway? How much worse could they play than us when we were tonked 5-0 by both Spain and France? We just have to grit our teeth and be supportive of our OFC representative, rather than make disparaging remarks...
"Self-defence is an art I cultivate"
This thread is so full of angst and ignorance that it's embarassing.
I'm disappointed that we lost today, but fairplay to New Caledonia and good luck to them or Tahiti in Brazil next year. I'll be supporting them wholeheartedly.
what are we supposed to do ?
kiss their asses ??
oh it's ok all whites, I know the weather was a bit hot than what most of you are used to but it's ok.....
The result doesn't matter at all. Forget about the $1,000,000 NZ football could have had.......
The point is you tried. The only failure is the failure to participate......
ALL WHITE TILL I DIE etc etc........
FFS.
Gordon just out of interest, because it is related to my line of work, do you know if the turf manager at the stadium is a local and there full time or if OFC brought in people specially for the tournament? Sorry if you've had enough of talking about the pitch, just something that has been discussed at work.
Fuck this stupid game
This thread is so full of angst and ignorance that it's embarassing.
I'm disappointed that we lost today, but fairplay to New Caledonia and good luck to them or Tahiti in Brazil next year. I'll be supporting them wholeheartedly.
what are we supposed to do ?
kiss their asses ??
oh it's ok all whites, I know the weather was a bit hot than what most of you are used to but it's ok.....
The result doesn't matter at all. Forget about the $1,000,000 NZ football could have had.......
The point is you tried. The only failure is the failure to participate......
ALL WHITE TILL I DIE etc etc........
FFS.
It's more the inconsistency that pisses me off. The people ripping them to bits were most likely singing their praises last week after the texas games. Either that or they haven't said a word on these forums since the last time they had something exclusively negative to say.
All I'm saying is people could afford to be a bit more circumspect. The fact is that the teams we have faced were far better than we expected, we were outplayed and couldn't handle to conditions, but at the end of the day this result won't completely derail NZ football.
Yes some serious introspection is required, yes it's very disappointing, and yes we should have done better. BUT the other teams deserve credit, and anyone who thinks that this alone is a return to the bad old days of NZ football needs to take a deep breathe and chill the f**k out.
Not having seen any of the game it is very hard to be too critical.
Have read many of the comments
These are the only things that I can come up with. Having played many games in these conditions I can understand how hard the assignment was in the first place. Having said that, the fact that NZ football has come a long way in the last few years and as we would have had the most professional players of any of these teams I am bitterly disappointed with this result as we should have done a lot better. I really think that there should be a lot of questions asked regarding this shocking result.NC are no mugs, but really should not have been within a bulls roar of the AW's.
Don't give me that shit about the "conditions", the whole team have been there for about 2 weeks. We lost because the players were poor combined with absolute woeful tactics.
Yea, brilliant idea playing Killen (a striker by the way) in holding midfield.....
Lochhead.... need I say more
don't even get me started on Brockie. JESUS. did you see that cross ? If you can call it that.
OMG WTF
I'm not making any excuses for the contitions, just making the point. I think that with the players we had the result is a joke. As i said before, NC are no mugs, but the fact that most of our players are professional compared to the other teams is unforgivabable.
What i want to know is how good was Lockhead?
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
What i want to know is how good was Lockhead?
Weak comment re: professionalism. Theres been players in both Solomons and New Caledonia that are miles better than the likes of Clapham. And dont deny it
I'm not making any excuses for the contitions, just making the point. I think that with the players we had the result is a joke. As i said before, NC are no mugs, but the fact that most of our players are professional compared to the other teams is unforgivabable.
What i want to know is how good was Lockhead?
lol. You know when you're watching a game of football, and there is a certain player on the pitch where you just laugh every time he gets the ball ? Like Heskey. A laugh a minute.
Yea, that's Lochhead.
And i'm not even joking, his passing was dredful but I will give him credit for the cross for Smeltz (which he should have fuckin scored)
but the thing is, he's a professional. A PRO - FESSION - AL. Thank the lord he is getting old. I don't understand how he gets payed to play football. I bet he's wondering the same thing.
Nobody can defend that pitch. When the ball bobbles a foot in the air when someone is dribbling then you know something is wrong.
I rate the island teams. I just can't understand why we were so shit. I can only guess they were all out on the piss with 2nd best
Founder
What i want to know is how good was Lockhead?
Weak comment re: professionalism. Theres been players in both Solomons and New Caledonia that are miles better than the likes of Clapham. And dont deny it
NZ lose to New Caledonia
Now AJ13 tells me Clapham's a professional
the world has gone crazy
I don't think he did tell you that actually.
Three for me, and two for them.
good grief a lochead bashing was not what i expected in the aftermath of that game... his performance wasn't great but he didn't cost us the important goal and didnt stand out to me as the worst on the pitch
always thought we might cop a loss in this comp, just hoped it would be in pool play rather than the semi or final.
This is football, AWs out of their comfort zone, island teams fired up, no midfielders and questionable tactics from ricki to fill the gaps, it was always on the cards. In the limited time he had i actually liked the look of mcgeorge, thought he could've got the nod in midfield, perhaps a bit young. Definitely a weak spot for us and one that's been exposed in this comp, huge area of concern for the foreseeable future.
I don't think he did tell you that actually.
2 +2 = 5 ;)
Buffon II
can you explain that little video please ? whose fans are they ??
Buffon II
can you explain that little video please ? whose fans are they ??
Manchester United fans hearing the news of the goal that put City up 3-2 over QPR.
I just told the lady friend that NZ lost to NC...
"You've got to be kidding...NZ is so terrible at soccer".
"But what about two years ago, Winston, Italy, the then current World Champs etc etc???"
"Is New Caledonia even a country?"
"Well...err...technically...no...."
Buffon II
can you explain that little video please ? whose fans are they ??
Manchester United fans hearing the news of the goal that put City up 3-2 over QPR.
I thought it was. Thanks man.
something to laugh at I guess, after today....