over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
With Hay on this. Surely someone like Tunisia would be keen on a pre WC friendly, given they are in the same pool as Socceroos at the World Cup.
Otherwise could be awhile before AWs play again, as focus moves to Womens & U20 World Cups in 2023.
And as last 12 months have shown it ain't easy to find tough quality opponents for friendlies (Peru aside). A chance to be the 'pseudo Socceroos' for some tough game(s) in November, seems an opportunity lost. Especially if FIFA would help fund it. From memory all 32 qualified nations for a WC get a lump sum from FIFA to help with their WC prep.
Speaking after naming a 24-strong squad, Hay confirmed his contract was set to expire at the end of next month and expressed frustration with regard to the lack of any plans on NZ Football’s part to seek matches in November on the eve of the World Cup.
“As a fan of the All Whites and a fan of the game, I think 100% the All Whites need to be playing,” Hay said, after referring to skipping November – where it’s not clear if clubs have to release players that aren’t World-Cup-bound – as “a hiatus”.
“The opportunity to play against more teams from outside of [Oceania], which November potentially would have given the side, is vitally important for their continued development.”
With Hay on this. Surely someone like Tunisia would be keen on a pre WC friendly, given they are in the same pool as Socceroos at the World Cup.
Otherwise could be awhile before AWs play again, as focus moves to Womens & U20 World Cups in 2023.
And as last 12 months have shown it ain't easy to find tough quality opponents for friendlies (Peru aside). A chance to be the 'pseudo Socceroos' for some tough game(s) in November, seems an opportunity lost. Especially if FIFA would help fund it. From memory all 32 qualified nations for a WC get a lump sum from FIFA to help with their WC prep.
Speaking after naming a 24-strong squad, Hay confirmed his contract was set to expire at the end of next month and expressed frustration with regard to the lack of any plans on NZ Football’s part to seek matches in November on the eve of the World Cup.
“As a fan of the All Whites and a fan of the game, I think 100% the All Whites need to be playing,” Hay said, after referring to skipping November – where it’s not clear if clubs have to release players that aren’t World-Cup-bound – as “a hiatus”.
“The opportunity to play against more teams from outside of [Oceania], which November potentially would have given the side, is vitally important for their continued development.”
Sounds like he almost talking himself out of continuing in the role.
Isn't there going to be a review after this Aus series, into what happened in Qatar at the playoff game. NZF are really hamstrung until the review is completed. So not sure what Hay is on about. He's probably out the door after the review. Who knows.
You know what, I think he may have rehearsed that ahead of time…freaking live that dude. So versatile, so amazing, would cross the street to watch him in a toothpaste commercial!
I’m told Wales is quite divided, but certainly it’s a different vibe from the most recent ‘It’s Coming Home’, eh.
over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
As for a Kiwi actor with that passion. Well someone who’s done a bit of opera maybe. Someone who can command with their voice and who likes the football…
Maybe Michael Hurst or George Henare? Or Nathaniel Lees if you remember back to the TV adaptation of the worst soccer team in the world … All those guys would smash it. Sure there’s a whole bunch of other folk I’ve left out. Lucy Lawless or Robyn Malcolm.
If Danny Hay was to leave, who would be the best replacement? Des Buk surely wouldn't come as his club management career seems to be on an upward trajectory. Seems silly to not at least offer Danny the job again to keep continuity within the squad. Bar some highly, highly dubious refereeing we'd potentially be off to the world cup with major strides taken in terms of team identity. Personally, I'd renew his contract, for at least 2 more years.
over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
Waineo'sWag
If Danny Hay was to leave, who would be the best replacement? Des Buk surely wouldn't come as his club management career seems to be on an upward trajectory. Seems silly to not at least offer Danny the job again to keep continuity within the squad. Bar some highly, highly dubious refereeing we'd potentially be off to the world cup with major strides taken in terms of team identity. Personally, I'd renew his contract, for at least 2 more years.
Lets see what the review reveals , might be the deciding factor?
over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
Waineo'sWag
If Danny Hay was to leave, who would be the best replacement? Des Buk surely wouldn't come as his club management career seems to be on an upward trajectory. Seems silly to not at least offer Danny the job again to keep continuity within the squad. Bar some highly, highly dubious refereeing we'd potentially be off to the world cup with major strides taken in terms of team identity. Personally, I'd renew his contract, for at least 2 more years.
If they the rumoured allegations against Hay are proven factual he should go. But if not he should stay. Simple as that.
Oh and if not Hay, ex Peru coach (the other team that lost their IC playoff) Ricardo Gareca is now available.
His rumoured last contract with the Peruvian FA, was for US$3.7 million ($NZD6 million) a year. Chicken feed surely for NZF.
Sounds like he almost talking himself out of continuing in the role.
I agree. It must be so boring most of the year. Lots of ideas and looking at videos/chatting to players. But there is only so much of that you can do for weeks and weeks at a time.
If Danny Hay was to leave, who would be the best replacement? Des Buk surely wouldn't come as his club management career seems to be on an upward trajectory. Seems silly to not at least offer Danny the job again to keep continuity within the squad. Bar some highly, highly dubious refereeing we'd potentially be off to the world cup with major strides taken in terms of team identity. Personally, I'd renew his contract, for at least 2 more years.
Lets see what the review reveals , might be the deciding factor?
Wow. A review... something only blind Freddy needs to see how poorly Hay has fared. On the other hand, why not? God knows it's good for the economy and FNZ has buckets of money to throw round. I suggest they would be better placed to spend the funds on searching for Hay's replacement.
That's being very generous. What's the win lose ratio? Where's the core team around which the newcomers can come up to pace? Where's the consistency of playing style? Hay has coached like a cork floating about in a bathtub. No direction whatsover. It's about what one would expect from a schoolboy coach. The upside for Danny is that he could now demand a little more from the next private school that hires him, based on prior titles, not performance.
If Danny Hay was to leave, who would be the best replacement? Des Buk surely wouldn't come as his club management career seems to be on an upward trajectory. Seems silly to not at least offer Danny the job again to keep continuity within the squad. Bar some highly, highly dubious refereeing we'd potentially be off to the world cup with major strides taken in terms of team identity. Personally, I'd renew his contract, for at least 2 more years.
Lets see what the review reveals , might be the deciding factor?
Wow. A review... something only blind Freddy needs to see how poorly Hay has fared. On the other hand, why not? God knows it's good for the economy and FNZ has buckets of money to throw round. I suggest they would be better placed to spend the funds on searching for Hay's replacement.
The Hayters like yourself will have a field day when he leaves.
Not sure how y'all will feel when we appoint Bazeley or similar though...
That's being very generous. What's the win lose ratio? Where's the core team around which the newcomers can come up to pace? Where's the consistency of playing style? Hay has coached like a cork floating about in a bathtub. No direction whatsover. It's about what one would expect from a schoolboy coach. The upside for Danny is that he could now demand a little more from the next private school that hires him, based on prior titles, not performance.
Beat the Island nations more convincingly than anyone has for a long time. Took us to the quarterfinals in Tokyo. Won us rare friendly matches against non-OFC opponents, four of them in a row to be exact. Took us closer to the World Cup than the coach did in either of the last two cycles. Got the team playing better football in midfield and much better able to compete in the middle of the park against superior opposition (has it turned into offensive output? No. And that's a shame and a critique)
To be clear, I think there's criticisms to be made of Hay and I don't mind if he moves on and we replace him with somebody equal or better. But bother off with the personal insults pretending they didn't do anything. End of rant.
Yipe from another article I read assembling the AWs together ain't cheap. But given about 70% of a full strength squad now play in Europe, the flight costs at least will be cheap playing a game(s) on the Continent. And you'd also imagine federations like the Danish & French would be pretty flush, maybe offering to cover all costs.
Think a fair number of the Tunisian team also play in Europe (France especially) so you could likely organise a game in France, Spain or wherever pretty cheapest.
Don't FIFA also contribute alot of cash to help all qualified countries with their WC preps, so making sure no one is at a financial/preparation disadvantage?
NZF also made big cashflow saving with no International Teams expenditure basically from about March 2020 to August 2021 (the Olympics). So why not spend some of that cash saved back then, early in the new WC cycle? That's one argument. Also I read from memory NZF have increased their commercial revenue (sponsors?) by about 30% - which reflects well on Pragnell & Co.
On every social media platform I've had a quick gander at, the consistent refrain. We want this AWs team playing games more often, and lets not waste the momentum of the last few weeks.
Umm, the momentum was backwards. We lost twice. The second loss was against a junior side in our backyard. I would prefer the momentum went the other way. Perhaps a new coach could mould something like a team from the debacle of the last era.
That's being very generous. What's the win lose ratio? Where's the core team around which the newcomers can come up to pace? Where's the consistency of playing style? Hay has coached like a cork floating about in a bathtub. No direction whatsover. It's about what one would expect from a schoolboy coach. The upside for Danny is that he could now demand a little more from the next private school that hires him, based on prior titles, not performance.
That's being very generous. What's the win lose ratio? Where's the core team around which the newcomers can come up to pace? Where's the consistency of playing style? Hay has coached like a cork floating about in a bathtub. No direction whatsover. It's about what one would expect from a schoolboy coach. The upside for Danny is that he could now demand a little more from the next private school that hires him, based on prior titles, not performance.
Those comments were in relation to Kosta not being picked for latest Aus games due to suspension.
That's being very generous. What's the win lose ratio? Where's the core team around which the newcomers can come up to pace? Where's the consistency of playing style? Hay has coached like a cork floating about in a bathtub. No direction whatsover. It's about what one would expect from a schoolboy coach. The upside for Danny is that he could now demand a little more from the next private school that hires him, based on prior titles, not performance.
A stoush has emerged between the All Whites and New Zealand Football, with leaked letters revealing that players have been left feeling disrespected and at odds with the board's plan for the team. Michael Burgess reports. Relations between the All Whites and the New Zealand Football board are at a new low. While there has been frustration expressed recently around NZF's apparent unwillingness to endorse Danny Hay as coach, a deeper issue is the unwillingness to take a proactive stance towards the All Whites match schedule for November, as well as planning for games in 2023. The Weekend Herald can reveal four senior All Whites, with the backing of the wider squad, took the unprecedented step of writing to NZF president Johanna Wood and her deputy Scott Moran to express their concerns. The quartet were expecting the letter to spark ongoing conversations, but that did not eventuate. Instead, Wood and Moran replied with a letter of their own. Players told the Weekend Herald the response was "disrespectful" and lacked empathy. A former All White likened it to a teacher talking to third formers. On July 14, captain Winston Reid, vice-captain Chris Wood, Bill Tuiloma and Joe Bell wrote to Wood and Moran outlining the issue they wanted to "raise, discuss and have resolved with immediate effect". They referred to NZF chief executive Andrew Pragnell notifying the squad of an impending independent campaign debrief, and that there would be no games in November. "That had us highly concerned," said the letter. "From our point of view, which we believe will be shared by all New Zealand football fans, the team must play at every given opportunity ... [to] build on the work done and what has been achieved over the past 12 months."
The letter said a six-month hiatus was "unimaginable".
They said the November-December window was an ideal opportunity for matches against top-50 ranked nations, both before and during the Fifa World Cup.
After creditable performances against Peru and Costa Rica in June, there was heightened interest in the All Whites, with approaches made to intermediaries and Fifa match agents.The Weekend Herald understands there was interest from three European countries ranked inside the top 50, including one in the top 20. With the majority of All Whites based on that continent and the possibility of some costs being covered, it would likely have been a cheaper exercise than in future windows. The opportunity would also be rare. Since the 2010 World Cup, the All Whites have played only four friendlies against European opposition: Northern Ireland and Belarus in 2017, and Ireland and Lithuania in 2019. The players reminded Wood and Moran that the All Whites didn't play for almost two years due to Covid and had already lost opportunities to play and evolv
All Whites head coach Danny Hay has been left in limbo. Photo / Photosport They acknowledge that international activity is costly but pointed out NZF has a surplus of more than $11 million. They also pointed out the disparity between the number of games played by the Football Ferns (40) and All Whites (20) since 2018. "Whilst we are incredibly supportive of the Ferns and their ability to be fully prepared for their home World Cup in 2023 ... all we'd like to see is a level of equality for both flagship national teams." Reid and company finished by saying they would welcome the opportunity "to resolve this with immediacy, as it is an issue we feel very strongly about". Nineteen days later, Wood and Moran responded on behalf of the board with a 900-word letter, essentially turning down the request. "We opened up to them and we wanted to speak," one senior player told the Weekend Herald. "But we were shot down, with a blank wall. We were happy to get on a Zoom call or something like that to discuss further. He said that the squad would have been willing to forgo their player payments for the week – "if necessary" – as a goodwill gesture. Wood and Moran offered a flat no to the prospect of playing in November. "The Executive Committee have endorsed the position of Finance Committee around the November Fifa World Cup 2022 release period, but if any of the information above is unclear or you would like to understand it better, please do not hesitate to reach out to us or Andrew so there is no confusion in relation to where we stand," said the letter. "Naturally it would be our preference to have the All Whites playing as much as possible. Based on a recommendation of the NZF Finance Committee, the board made a decision earlier this year not to play in the November release period in the event we did not qualify [for the World Cup]. It is key that we plan activity prudently and in a planned way that enables us to be successful at both the Paris 2024 Olympics and also the Fifa 2026 World Cup, while balancing all of our other priorities." Wood and Moran said that all activity needed to be undertaken in a "sustainable fashion" to ensure games in the latter stages of a cycle. "Without prize money from the Fifa World Cup, New Zealand Football makes significant losses through the operation of its national teams, especially in the later part of a qualifying campaign," it continued. The letter stated that NZF's 2022 budgeted operational loss was set at $3.26 million before any transfers from reserves. Wood and Moran said they were confident they could "turn this business model around over time, especially with future World Cup qualification". It said NZF had invested $10 million into All Whites tours over the last two World Cup cycles and that the team's activity this year was already $457,000 over the $2.4 million budget, though that didn't take into account any potential profit made from last Sunday's Eden Park clash with the Socceroos, with almost 35,000 fans at Eden Park. The board noted the $11 million in reserves but said the 2022 losses, along with the programme over the next four years and a policy of reserves staying above $4 million, meant they needed to "exercise some caution". "We do regret we are unable to accommodate the request to play in the November period and completely understand the desire to build on the momentum gathered. We ... consider the best way to achieve the goal of qualifying for 2026 with the resources we have is to have the team sufficiently resourced in the run-up to the qualifying games and related events in the 2023-2026 period." NZF have yet to lock in any All Whites fixtures for next March. It is also a prime window, with top Asian and South American nations available, along with a number of European teams, with the qualifying schedule for the 2024 European Championships to be released on October 9. Johanna Wood declined to comment when requested by the Weekend Herald.
YoungHe.\rt
All is definitely not well around NZF at the moment. The body language at the presser from Wood seems to make more sense now.
Exclusive: Four senior All Whites, including Chris Wood & Winston Reid, wrote to NZF board in July, over concerns about the future playing schedule.
Im no fan of Hay but I remember watching the AWs at the 1999 Confeds cup and they were playing better than any side in the previous couple of years. One contributing factor was a run of games leading up to the confeds cup (9 or 11 I think?). Anyway we have one of the more talented collection of players in recent years playing and they and Hay deserve as many games together as possible. No games in November is a huge missed opportunity.
Im no fan of Hay but I remember watching the AWs at the 1999 Confeds cup and they were playing better than any side in the previous couple of years. One contributing factor was a run of games leading up to the confeds cup (9 or 11 I think?). Anyway we have one of the more talented collection of players in recent years playing and they and Hay deserve as many games together as possible. No games in November is a huge missed opportunity.
It'd be a hard sell to any top manager if he did go too. "We have no money, your squad is almost entirely based on the other side of the world, we will probably have less than half-a-dozen home games during your tenure and can't guarantee decent opposition. But, hey, you have a free run at a World Cup." That doesn't necessarily mean he should stay, but people should be careful what they wish for.
You very much get the sense that old mate Fritz Schmid didn't realise what he had committed to, considering he just up and left, and his only job since has been interim at a Ghanaian club side. Same reason I'm sceptical about all the suggested coaches currently in club football, because it's a massive difference seeing players every day with months of pre-season versus having only a couple light training sessions with some players not even arriving until the day before you have a game. There's only so many times you can watch Helsingør vs Fremad Amager, Haka vs Inter Turku, Sligo vs Shelbourne etc on Wyscout to see how the guys are getting on at club level, to take you through the six months until the next game.
When it said four senior players were involved, I had a feeling Tuiloma and possibly Michael Boxall would have been involved in there somewhere too, so a little surprised at Joe Bell being the fourth - Show's me how much he cares about pulling on the shirt, which is exactly the kind of commitment I want to see.
Full credit to all four of those involved. Something definitely needs to change. The response from NZF sounds, at best a bit tearse and somewhat predictable.
Pragnell has already hung his hat on this saying there will be regular games going forward, so if March rolls around and there is nothing forthcoming should we be expecting a resignation?
Lots at stake over the coming 6 months or so you feel.
over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
this is far worse than any issues with the coaching team, the NZF don't want to fund the AW's games. Surely the saw the crowd at Eden park and made money from that venture? If they didnt then they are doing it wrong. Such short sightedness is gonna see the NZF go broke because interest will waine as we never get to see our stars play. The future stars will never feel like they can be aprt of the team cos they'll never see it. Pragnell and co need to go!
over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
YoungHe.\rt
@Enough said - Legend mate. Thank you.
When it said four senior players were involved, I had a feeling Tuiloma and possibly Michael Boxall would have been involved in there somewhere too, so a little surprised at Joe Bell being the fourth - Show's me how much he cares about pulling on the shirt, which is exactly the kind of commitment I want to see.
Full credit to all four of those involved. Something definitely needs to change. The response from NZF sounds, at best a bit tearse and somewhat predictable.
Pragnell has already hung his hat on this saying there will be regular games going forward, so if March rolls around and there is nothing forthcoming should we be expecting a resignation?
Lots at stake over the coming 6 months or so you feel.
People can be unimpressed by Bell's performances over these last two friendlies, but he deserves respect for this. It shows that while he may be part of the younger generation coming through the All Whites, he's not afraid to step up and join the likes of Wood, Reid, and Tuiloma in wanting better from NZF.
NZF was near financial ruin not that long ago - and have worked hard as an organisation to get the game on a better financial footing. Whilst better, it's not that sound and won't be for another 3 - 4 years until when NZF will start pocketing FIFA WC money.
Once this occurs, they will be able to fully support our mens, womens and youth team programmes in the future.
NZF have done some good - helping to fund the female nix team etc to securing the womens WC. Progress has been made, but until we have the $$$ they will continue to act with caution.
So basically the players want to play every window but NZF say there isn't money and there are prioritising games closer to important parts of the next cycle?
over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
MetalLegNZ
Time to play devils advocate.
NZF was near financial ruin not that long ago - and have worked hard as an organisation to get the game on a better financial footing. Whilst better, it's not that sound and won't be for another 3 - 4 years until when NZF will start pocketing FIFA WC money.
Once this occurs, they will be able to fully support our mens, womens and youth team programmes in the future.
NZF have done some good - helping to fund the female nix team etc to securing the womens WC. Progress has been made, but until we have the $$$ they will continue to act with caution.
got to look at why they were near ruin, basically down to mis-management and golden handshakes to top brass. Like the cash from the '82 WC NZF easted the money from the 2010 WC and left the coffers bare. It's fine to prioritise games for teams that are closer to big tourneys, but you can't expect to get big cash from winning men's tournaments if all they are doing is playing fiji, tahiti, NC twice every four years. We'll never get better, sure we'll make a WC everytime going forward but we'll get smashed and look stupid.
Got to spend money (invest) to grow the game and therefore make money.
So basically the players want to play every window but NZF say there isn't money and there are prioritising games closer to important parts of the next cycle?
Yet NZF continue to fund the Football Ferns at a ratio of 2 games to every one played by the AWs. The Ferns a team that consistently fails to perform at the Olympics or World Cups, a team that is nearly always a turgid hard watch, with not one 'star' player that I would personaly cross the street to watch play (though yes hopefully Alyssa Whinham, and in time others coming through the Nix change that).
The Ferns (and all age group programmes) basically having their programmes funded by the senior mens AWs (2010 FIFA cash & 2013 Mexico TV dosh).
So you can sort of understand why Wood & Co have a serious gripe. And Wood is a friend of womens football - his sister being an ex NZ age group rep & he campaigned for pay parity.
Hopefully the Nov-Dec one, is the only window the AWs miss going foward. I think all football fans will be angry if we don't see this promising group play consistently from March 2023.
When it said four senior players were involved, I had a feeling Tuiloma and possibly Michael Boxall would have been involved in there somewhere too, so a little surprised at Joe Bell being the fourth - Show's me how much he cares about pulling on the shirt, which is exactly the kind of commitment I want to see.
Full credit to all four of those involved. Something definitely needs to change. The response from NZF sounds, at best a bit tearse and somewhat predictable.
Pragnell has already hung his hat on this saying there will be regular games going forward, so if March rolls around and there is nothing forthcoming should we be expecting a resignation?
Lots at stake over the coming 6 months or so you feel.
People can be unimpressed by Bell's performances over these last two friendlies, but he deserves respect for this. It shows that while he may be part of the younger generation coming through the All Whites, he's not afraid to step up and join the likes of Wood, Reid, and Tuiloma in wanting better from NZF.
He's AWs captain in waiting, and probably the voice of the big number of U25 year olds in the team, so completely understandable he was one of the four chosen to speak out
NZF funding the Ferns, U-20's which make no money, in fact cost money to put games on with no payback, that's the kind of dumb investment that you stay away from. The team NZF can and should be maing money from is the mens team! This kind of poor decision making will cost us, the team, the management and NZF bucket loads in the longer term.
over 3 years ago· edited over 3 years ago· History
AlfStamp
Im no fan of Hay but I remember watching the AWs at the 1999 Confeds cup and they were playing better than any side in the previous couple of years. One contributing factor was a run of games leading up to the confeds cup (9 or 11 I think?). Anyway we have one of the more talented collection of players in recent years playing and they and Hay deserve as many games together as possible. No games in November is a huge missed opportunity.
It will only be a huge missed opportunity if from March 2023 onwards it proves near impossible to find quality oppoents to play, ie is back to playing Oman, Thailand & Mynamar away. As sounds like for Nov-Dec there are some quality Euro teams available, even a top 20 side reportedly.
But in a recent AV article, he noted that with UEFA Euros qualifying draw coming up in October, there will be lots of groups that have 5 teams in 2023, and so hopefully teams looking for a friendly when they have a bye round next year. Just like Ireland & Lithuania in 2019. Think I have that right??
Also the above reponse by NZF to Wood & Co, highlighting in clear detail their financial Reserves plus cost of running international teams - shows how vital qualifying for future World Cups is - to fund all the internatiuonal team programs.
That alone should kill the 'move to AFC' agrument. A combined East AFC/OFC Nations League comp would be great, a full move to AFC dumb.