All Whites' Dead End Road To Russia 2018

I am going to disagree. Peru is 12th in the world and in the best form for decades. USA struggling and have weak team compared to recent years. I would certainly rather play USA

What about Honduras ?

I guess a lot of us are in the same boat. Or plane. Or whatever.

I'm guessing NZF will push for the 10th - 11th, but doubtful Peru will agree.

All I know about Peru:
- the Incas
- Sendero Luminoso
- bears who wear dufflecoats and like marmalade

Pisco sour the national drink. Cocktail both sour & sweet

Cerviche raw fish. Yummy. 

Fujimori (spp) an ex President of Japanese descent

Shining Path a brutal ex Marxist guerrilla group. Who have gone the way of most of Marxism, ie extinction 

Mining Coca the major currency earner

Paolo Guerrero. Plays in Brazil I guess, great player with a lot of experience

... and according to Wikipedia, a fear of flying, he will love coming into Wellington... 

On the subject of flying, has the NZFA been organised enough to arrange in advance a charter 787 from Air New Zealand to fly direct, or are they going on scheduled flight via Los Angeles, or Santiago, or Buenos Aires?

I see we'll be playing the away leg at altitude (Lima 1550 metres). Best Anfony takes the lads into camp up the summit of Mt Holdsworth after we hold them to the draw at sea level.

The top bits of the Lima district are at 1550 metres.  The National stadium is at or near to sea level (Lima is a coastal town that expands into the Andes to it's East).  Unless they play somewhere other than Lima the game is not at altitude.

... once you are paying for 30 business class seats, you've paid a decent portion of charter costs, and you get some money back by selling the seats down the back to a supporters group.  I think All Blacks did something similar when they played in Chicago.

Not to mention saving a number of hours in travel.  Lima is about 8 hours from LAX, and 4 hours from Santiago/Buenos Aires so its a pain to get to with connecting scheduled flights.  

Given the proximity of Australia/Honduras to NZ/Peru respectively, the same plane(s) that take the NZ/Peru players upto Lima could be used to take the Australia/Honduras players back to Sydney.  That is until someone at FIFA uncovers a regulation that allows them to change it to NZ v Australia, and Honduras v Peru, and solve the travel problem!

August 27, 2017 9:53am

In my view Peru are a smokey for that 5th spot. They play Educador and Bolivia this window. My Peruvian ex GF will be hoping so.

But Christ AWs will still be massive outsiders whoever is the 5th placed side.

Peru are very unlikely. The only reason they're in it is because they were awarded a 3-0 win over Bolivia after the latter fielded an ineligible player. They'd originally lost that game 2-0. Making up 4 more points across 4 games is going to be very hard for them, especially as their talent-base is smaller than the rest of the teams they'll be competing with for that spot.

Ecuador are a possibility, but also an unlikely one. They have a very tough run in - away to Brazil and Chile, and home to Argentina in the last round (and in the game that the Argies will likely need something out of). Don't think they can do it.

The other outside possibilities are Paraguay (same amount of points as Peru, but worse goal difference), and Colombia (could potentially slide down). Again, for Paraguay, it's gonna be a hard ask to make up the points (especially considering that with their GD, they effectively have to make up 5 points). Colombia still has to play Brazil (but at home), but with their remaining games being Venezuela and Peru away, and Paraguay at home, they should be able to pick up enough points not to slide down all the way to 5th.

Which basically leaves us with what 2B has posted - the overwhelming probability is that the 5th placed team will be one out of Argentina, Chile, or Uruguay. Something quite extraordinary would have to happen for it not to be one of those three.

And sometimes extraordinary things happen

I saw Hudson on the news talking about the biggest factor being which team would be fitter for the game. One day before I die I hope to hear a NZ coach talk about us being better players than the opposition. Its the same tired bs we have heard for 30 years. Fitness wont win these 2 games, gifted players will.

But NZ don't have more gifted players than Peru. We pretty much have less gifted players than everyone we play bar Island Nations and maybe Oman, Thailand etc

Still at least we are still in with a shot for next 4 weeks. That's 4 weeks longer than likes of Chile, and Netherlands who most definitely have better players than us.

Gees Messi's 3rd goal was a gem

You completely missed the point.

Basically Hudson doesn't care what you or I have heard for the last 30 years, ad nauseum about fitness. He couldn't give a toss. 

He just wants his players fit, and going on the state Tuiloma, Lewis & Ingham were recently turning up in - message still not sinking in.

Your moaning about not having a squad of players as skillful as Peru (or an AWs coach stating we do) - is better directed as NZF's youth development program. That and fact that we have a popn of only 4M (where football ain't the main sport), compared to Peru's 32M - means it a delusional pipe dream to think the AWs coach will say 'yes man for man we are better than Peru' (substitute any of 50 countries for the world's currently 12th ranked side).

That's not saying AWs shouldn't be striving to be better, but playing team as highly ranked as Peruvians, of course they have better more skilled players than us.

Luckily, Peru's most famous export has pledged allegiance to his adopted country, England.

Iceland have less registered footballers than the Waikato region and have a population of just on 300,000. The population argument  is a weak one and has been for a long time. Ive been involved in football here since the 60's, during the last decade or so at junior and youth level we are finally trying to coach the right way but unfortunately we still have too many dinosaur coaches who get hold of the the young players and end up producing hoof ball with them. Our development as a football nation has stalled. The next thing we have is a coach in Hudson who turns up and takes our team to the Islands and produces hoofball, despite the fact all of those players have learned to play football on the deck. He blames conditions when in that scenario we have players who are man for man technically better than the Island players but ironically in those qualifying games the Island teams are the ones who try and play the type of football required. We beat them but in nowhere near the convincing type of manner the players are capable of doing. The football the AW's played in the islands was an utter disgrace. The argument that the result is all that matters is a lazy cop out that has no eye to the future.

We wont get past Peru, thats not Hudsons fault but if we dont stop placing coaches in positions of influence who are still stuck with outdated British ideas from decades ago we wont ever break the cycle and turn into a footballing nation. (BTW Im English by birth)

Every time there is a FIFA competition they send technical teams to report on the games. Those reports are then given to every country that takes part. We have never had a single report which talks about technical ability, they all talk about our fitness, strength and organisation. Hudsons comments just reinforce the problem. He hasnt once spoken about him  improving our football or technical ability, that influence filters through. 

I hope that before I die we have evolved to a point where players who from age 5 have been taught to play pass and move football and with the ball at their feet  go into a game where their technical ability is whats lauded. The kids are being taught that but the moment they hit 16 and senior teams start to look at they get asked to play hoof ball. I watched Bill Tuiloma play from age 5 through to 14, he never hoofed the ball, he always played pass and move, Miazawa and other coaches taught him that way. Under Hudson he is suddenly asked to play a different way than his football upbringing, hoof it.

A few years ago I attended a coaching clinic with the then England Womans coach Hope Powell. She had a Q&A at the end of a training session. Another coach asked her what we needed to do in NZ to improve. Her answer was be the fittest team, its what she was doing with England. England failed at the next WC, the next coach took over and Englands womens team improved massively. The old dinosaurs and their influence need to go.

The next coach after Hudson needs to be a coach who has a long term vision even if he isnt here for long, he needs to influence the senior coaches in the country to start using the players we are producing in the manner they learn as kids.

I cant wait till Hudson goes, he has been fudgeing awful. Its not his fault we wont qualify but he hasnt advanced the AW team one bit.

Iceland have less registered footballers than the Waikato region and have a population of just on 300,000. The population argument  is a weak one and has been for a long time. Ive been involved in football here since the 60's, during the last decade or so at junior and youth level we are finally trying to coach the right way but unfortunately we still have too many dinosaur coaches who get hold of the the young players and end up producing hoof ball with them. Our development as a football nation has stalled. The next thing we have is a coach in Hudson who turns up and takes our team to the Islands and produces hoofball, despite the fact all of those players have learned to play football on the deck. He blames conditions when in that scenario we have players who are man for man technically better than the Island players but ironically in those qualifying games the Island teams are the ones who try and play the type of football required. We beat them but in nowhere near the convincing type of manner the players are capable of doing. The football the AW's played in the islands was an utter disgrace. The argument that the result is all that matters is a lazy cop out that has no eye to the future.

We wont get past Peru, thats not Hudsons fault but if we dont stop placing coaches in positions of influence who are still stuck with outdated British ideas from decades ago we wont ever break the cycle and turn into a footballing nation. (BTW Im English by birth)

Every time there is a FIFA competition they send technical teams to report on the games. Those reports are then given to every country that takes part. We have never had a single report which talks about technical ability, they all talk about our fitness, strength and organisation. Hudsons comments just reinforce the problem. He hasnt once spoken about him  improving our football or technical ability, that influence filters through. 

I hope that before I die we have evolved to a point where players who from age 5 have been taught to play pass and move football and with the ball at their feet  go into a game where their technical ability is whats lauded. The kids are being taught that but the moment they hit 16 and senior teams start to look at they get asked to play hoof ball. I watched Bill Tuiloma play from age 5 through to 14, he never hoofed the ball, he always played pass and move, Miazawa and other coaches taught him that way. Under Hudson he is suddenly asked to play a different way than his football upbringing, hoof it.

A few years ago I attended a coaching clinic with the then England Womans coach Hope Powell. She had a Q&A at the end of a training session. Another coach asked her what we needed to do in NZ to improve. Her answer was be the fittest team, its what she was doing with England. England failed at the next WC, the next coach took over and Englands womens team improved massively. The old dinosaurs and their influence need to go.

The next coach after Hudson needs to be a coach who has a long term vision even if he isnt here for long, he needs to influence the senior coaches in the country to start using the players we are producing in the manner they learn as kids.

I cant wait till Hudson goes, he has been fudgeing awful. Its not his fault we wont qualify but he hasnt advanced the AW team one bit.

Well i know ranking does not necessarily mean much but Peru is still world no. 12 vs New Zealand no. 113.

I hope we win.

True, but if we use the "better" Elo rating Peru are no.11 & NZ no.73 so in reality we've actually still got no chance ;-)  

The main point Im trying to get through is our players are being brought up with a playing style thats been brought about by the realisation we need more technically capable players. Its being pushed by NZF, its being pushed by the various academies, by the various federations and lots of coaches who are doing the courses and being influenced by Wynton, Ole academy etc etc etc.

Out of the AW side in the Islands the majority of those players were taught to play a more modern style, a type of football that is more successful than the direct long ball approach however the AW coach asked them to play in a manner thats not in their own individual playing dna.

Our players are absolutely capable of playing pass and move football, we get glimpses of it but to become proficient, comfortable and better at it we need actually play that way.

There is footage on youtube of the AW's from the 1970's playing at Newmarket park on an awful pitch and that football was a massive amount smarter than the utter crap Hudson provided in the Islands. The football I watched the AW's play in the Islands was the worst i have ever watched in 50 years of watching football here. The really frustrating thing is the players were capable of much more. 

Long ball can be successful yes but when you start to see long ball after long ball end up in lost possession then its become hoofball. 

What is the point of picking players like Rojas for example if the main option is a long ball. Where do all Woods goals come from in England? Most of them from inside the box, you cant feed him the ball in the box from something launched from inside our own half.

Anyway, I cant wait for this wanker to be gone, he hasnt progressed the quality of our football one bit. Nobody will ever convince me otherwise. Even Ken Dugdales side were more expressive and pure than this sharke we see.

The main point Im trying to get through is our players are being brought up with a playing style thats been brought about by the realisation we need more technically capable players. Its being pushed by NZF, its being pushed by the various academies, by the various federations and lots of coaches who are doing the courses and being influenced by Wynton, Ole academy etc etc etc.

Out of the AW side in the Islands the majority of those players were taught to play a more modern style, a type of football that is more successful than the direct long ball approach however the AW coach asked them to play in a manner thats not in their own individual playing dna.

Our players are absolutely capable of playing pass and move football, we get glimpses of it but to become proficient, comfortable and better at it we need actually play that way.

There is footage on youtube of the AW's from the 1970's playing at Newmarket park on an awful pitch and that football was a massive amount smarter than the utter crap Hudson provided in the Islands. The football I watched the AW's play in the Islands was the worst i have ever watched in 50 years of watching football here. The really frustrating thing is the players were capable of much more. 

Long ball can be successful yes but when you start to see long ball after long ball end up in lost possession then its become hoofball. 

What is the point of picking players like Rojas for example if the main option is a long ball. Where do all Woods goals come from in England? Most of them from inside the box, you cant feed him the ball in the box from something launched from inside our own half.

Anyway, I cant wait for this wanker to be gone, he hasnt progressed the quality of our football one bit. Nobody will ever convince me otherwise. Even Ken Dugdales side were more expressive and pure than this sharke we see.