All Whites' Dead End Road To Russia 2018

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100% this AlfStamp, on both your posts.

You have hit the nail right on the head.

When Hudson arrived he talked about being a Bielsa disciple and wanted to play "modern" football. You could argue that currently we have the best group of players that the AW's have ever had to play that style of football. When you look at the club football played by the likes of Rojas, Thomas, Weemac, Barbarouses, Tuiloma etc you see that they are all exposed to 100% "modern" football all the time. They train for it  as pro footballers all week, they play it every weekend. It should have been easy for Hudson to adopt this style of football as it is the style that his key players know the best.

What is obvious to me now is that Hudson does not know how to coach that style......in fact I am not sure if we know what Hudsons style of football is. The hoof ball dross in the Islands was not a good look....however for me the Con Cup opening game against Russia was the absolute nadir. It was for me the worse football I have ever seen form an AW side for as long as I can remember. Selecting a bunch of small quick players and then spending the whole match hoofing the ball at Wood from anywhere on the pitch was embarassing to watch. "worse than pub football" was one comment I read in the UK football press.

So where to now?. Despite us all getting our hopes up for a miracle against Peru we won't win. Hopefully there will be a cleanout after the playoffs and Hudson will go. I personally would like to see an experianced more technical coach appointed. Maybe someone like that Austrian guy who is NZ football director??? Luckily we still have lots of players who are young enough for another WC cycle.

I agree with that, and with Alf's post.

The problem lies not with Hudson but with people who employed him - at the end of the day we had options to choose a new coach from a reasonably wide pool and it seems to me clearly we do not have the required skillset up in the NZF office to make this kind of decisions well.

No disrespect to British football, but we cannot match their wages to get the talent from the top tier. Personally I would favour a decent continental coach or for that matter even a Japanese or a Latin American coach of some quality, simply because there is more skillful passing football played and taught there. Japan improved out of sight after their loss to Australia in the 2006 WC in Germany, and are no longer in the same league; same goes for South Korea.  So maybe it is time to ask if the problem lies with the provincial mindset of NZF rather than an individual coach.

This argument only holds water if we produce youngsters with the right skills. And the comments quoting Iceland's achievements trump arguments saying "Peru has 36 M people, of course we'll lose".  Well, the numbers are important, but the mighty USA just missed qualifying, and Russia is yet to reach semifinals of WC.The Netherlands may have never won the WC, but they often looked the most likely. Small countries can compete well if their sport is well looked after, at all levels, and even then there are many factors deciding each top level game.

I don't know what people are expecting from Hudson regarding playing style, yes I would like to play a more modern game, but the reality is, we are not at the same level other teams are.

The Premier League is a good example, all the teams in that comp could comfortably beat the All Whites, yet a lot of the teams, especially in the lower half play quite direct, why, because on a technical level they can't compete that way, so look for a different often more direct route... despite still being technically better than us etc.

You want us to play Arsenal / Liverpool / Tott etc, but the reality is, we are the Burnley of the league.

So turning to the Peru game, although Peru are undoubtedly a strong team they only qualified due to a 3 point award resulting from a reversal due to an ineligible player.  We may have gotten slightly lucky, on results they were actually the 7th placed team.

I'd say we need to score in both legs to have any chance of progressing and I have no idea what the team is likely to be!

I don't know what people are expecting from Hudson regarding playing style, yes I would like to play a more modern game, but the reality is, we are not at the same level other teams are.

The Premier League is a good example, all the teams in that comp could comfortably beat the All Whites, yet a lot of the teams, especially in the lower half play quite direct, why, because on a technical level they can't compete that way, so look for a different often more direct route... despite still being technically better than us etc.

You want us to play Arsenal / Liverpool / Tott etc, but the reality is, we are the Burnley of the league.

I don't know what people are expecting from Hudson regarding playing style, yes I would like to play a more modern game, but the reality is, we are not at the same level other teams are.

The Premier League is a good example, all the teams in that comp could comfortably beat the All Whites, yet a lot of the teams, especially in the lower half play quite direct, why, because on a technical level they can't compete that way, so look for a different often more direct route... despite still being technically better than us etc.

You want us to play Arsenal / Liverpool / Tott etc, but the reality is, we are the Burnley of the league.

Andre Carrillo would be the big one, plays for Watford

So, looking ahead to the playoff, thought we could reflect on the previous one... looking at these two games, the questions that came to mind were:

- are Peru worse than Mexico?

- are the All Whites better now than in 2013?

If the answer is "no" to either question then things are going to be very tough... but all fun and games..

Ooh, could be a Satdy arvo game!  

Stuff article

I don't know what people are expecting from Hudson regarding playing style, yes I would like to play a more modern game, but the reality is, we are not at the same level other teams are.

The Premier League is a good example, all the teams in that comp could comfortably beat the All Whites, yet a lot of the teams, especially in the lower half play quite direct, why, because on a technical level they can't compete that way, so look for a different often more direct route... despite still being technically better than us etc.

You want us to play Arsenal / Liverpool / Tott etc, but the reality is, we are the Burnley of the league.

A little bit of info:

Keeper-

Gallese: He never gets out of the box. He's more keen for his fast reflexes. He plays for a low ranked Mexican team. 

DEFENSE-

Corzo: Slow and plays for Universitario de Deportes. He is known best for his defense. He has what South Americans, Garra or heart. If he can block the ball, he will dive head down first and block the ball with his face. He has no fear.

Ramos: Tall but lacks air defensive skills. He plays in Ecuador's best team, Emelec.

Rodriguez: He is the one to watch. He is the heart and soul of the peruvian back line. He tells other players where to go, how to mark your adversary and offside plays. Without him, that defense is average at best. He will miss the first leg due to injury.

Trauco: Plays for Flamengo but lately he's been coming off the bench. His left foot is great. One of the best in South America when it comes to long accurate passes.

Advincula: Dubbed as the Usain Bolt of peruvian football, he currently plays for a Mexican team. He is fast and knows how to cross the ball as well as long pass it across the field with high accuracy. He's known for his offensive skills rather than his defensive skills.

MIDFIELD- 

Tapia: He is slow but great with the ball. He anticipates the opposing offense and steals the ball without committing fouls. He plays for Feyernoord but is mostly comes off the bench.

Aquino: Young player who was a surprise for Gareca's team. He is Tapia's identical twin in his style of play but faster. However, he will always get a yellow card and tens to foul a lot. He plays for Mexican team Lobos and is currently chosen in the top 10 every week.

Attacking Midfield-

Yotun: Plays for an MLS Team(Orlando City) and is regarded as his successor in that team. He can shoot the ball from distance with both feet but he's mostly a lefty. He is a playmaker.

Cueva: Another play maker. He is fast but loves to dribble to a point you ask yourself...why? You can get in his head and he will shut down fast. He plays in Brazil for Sao Paulo and he's their best player.

Sergio Peña: He is Granada's talisman. He is their ace and playmaker for this Spanish team. However, Granada is in the Second tier division of Spain's La Liga. He is injured at the moment and will miss the first left.

Attacking wings-

Edison Flores: He's a left winger with fast pace and ball control. However, he has no right foot at all. But he's been matched up against South America's best and has overcome that. Great crosses and a good long distance shooter. He can last 90+ mins running up and down the field. Plays for a team in Denmark.

Andy Polo: Young, fast and most utilized for his defensive skills. He plays for Mexican Team Monarcas Morelia which was one of the best teams in the second half of the 2016-2017 season. He has been on the bench lately due to injury.

Andre Carrillo: Plays in England and is the best talent Peru has to offer. But when you get in his head, he cools off. But when he is on fire, he will destroy any defense in the world. He has been  Watford's go-to guy in the Premier League as of late.

Strikers-

Jefferson Farfan: He was Schalke's best player a couple of years ago for his long-range shooting, cool headed finishes, great crosses and extremely fast pace with great control up until his knee gave out. He went to play for Al Jazira FC in the Arab League and he was never the same anymore. Russia's LoKomotiv Moscow signed him and his knee has held up. But as he aged, his knee was not his only problem but personal problems kept him from being one of the best. He usually plays as a right winger but lately Gareca has been repositioning him as a striker due to his knee and lack of pace.

Paolo Guerrero: He is up with the best of the best. You may not know him but South America and Europe does. He was regarded as one of the best young talents in the Bayern's youth system. However, his hot-headed temper got the best of him. He did not last long at Bayern and was transferred to Hamburg where he became their best talent. However, due to his hot-headed temper, he was yellow-carded and red carded a lot so much that it impacted his performance. He was then transferred to Corinthians and is now Flamengo's top scorer. He can not only score goals but he can pass, hold the ball, shoot free kicks, etc. He can do it all.

Yordi Reyna: Talented and chosen second best player from an Under-20 South America's qualifying tournament. He is fast and can score goals as well as dribble at a fast pace. However, Gareca seems to like him as a winger which he knows nothing about.

Raul Ruidiaz: Best known as of late for his handball that left Brazil eliminated out of a group stage in Copa America Centenario. He is fast and can dribble as well but he is short. Currently, he plays for Monarcas Morelia and is their top scorer not only for the team but he was the top scorer for the whole league.

I don't know what people are expecting from Hudson regarding playing style, yes I would like to play a more modern game, but the reality is, we are not at the same level other teams are.

The Premier League is a good example, all the teams in that comp could comfortably beat the All Whites, yet a lot of the teams, especially in the lower half play quite direct, why, because on a technical level they can't compete that way, so look for a different often more direct route... despite still being technically better than us etc.

You want us to play Arsenal / Liverpool / Tott etc, but the reality is, we are the Burnley of the league.

Question is, what did Farfan roll for Charisma and can we use a 20 sided dice against them?

What about Bournemoutdram 

Swansea when they first came through, and dare to dream, Leicester

Iceland have less registered footballers than the Waikato region and have a population of just on 300,000. The population argument  is a weak one and has been for a long time. Ive been involved in football here since the 60's, during the last decade or so at junior and youth level we are finally trying to coach the right way but unfortunately we still have too many dinosaur coaches who get hold of the the young players and end up producing hoof ball with them. Our development as a football nation has stalled. The next thing we have is a coach in Hudson who turns up and takes our team to the Islands and produces hoofball, despite the fact all of those players have learned to play football on the deck. He blames conditions when in that scenario we have players who are man for man technically better than the Island players but ironically in those qualifying games the Island teams are the ones who try and play the type of football required. We beat them but in nowhere near the convincing type of manner the players are capable of doing. The football the AW's played in the islands was an utter disgrace. The argument that the result is all that matters is a lazy cop out that has no eye to the future.

We wont get past Peru, thats not Hudsons fault but if we dont stop placing coaches in positions of influence who are still stuck with outdated British ideas from decades ago we wont ever break the cycle and turn into a footballing nation. (BTW Im English by birth)

Every time there is a FIFA competition they send technical teams to report on the games. Those reports are then given to every country that takes part. We have never had a single report which talks about technical ability, they all talk about our fitness, strength and organisation. Hudsons comments just reinforce the problem. He hasnt once spoken about him  improving our football or technical ability, that influence filters through. 

I hope that before I die we have evolved to a point where players who from age 5 have been taught to play pass and move football and with the ball at their feet  go into a game where their technical ability is whats lauded. The kids are being taught that but the moment they hit 16 and senior teams start to look at they get asked to play hoof ball. I watched Bill Tuiloma play from age 5 through to 14, he never hoofed the ball, he always played pass and move, Miazawa and other coaches taught him that way. Under Hudson he is suddenly asked to play a different way than his football upbringing, hoof it.

A few years ago I attended a coaching clinic with the then England Womans coach Hope Powell. She had a Q&A at the end of a training session. Another coach asked her what we needed to do in NZ to improve. Her answer was be the fittest team, its what she was doing with England. England failed at the next WC, the next coach took over and Englands womens team improved massively. The old dinosaurs and their influence need to go.

The next coach after Hudson needs to be a coach who has a long term vision even if he isnt here for long, he needs to influence the senior coaches in the country to start using the players we are producing in the manner they learn as kids.

I cant wait till Hudson goes, he has been fudgeing awful. Its not his fault we wont qualify but he hasnt advanced the AW team one bit.

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Problem with playing on Saturday which I don't think they've thought through properly is that they will have such a long flight to Lima and not much time to recover and train before the away leg which has to be Tuesday 14 at the latest (Wednesday mid-day NZT)

Two flight options:

(1) LAN Chile fly to Lima but it is a more than 21 hour flight via Santiago, Chile.

Seats available on the one Saturday 6.20 pm flight but that's a rush to get onboard after a Saturday afternoon match:

http://booking.lan.com/en_nz/

Various options to fly on Sunday on 22 hours plus flights via Melbourne and Santiago.

(2) If they fly Air NZ, they will then spend Sunday evening and Monday travelling to Peru and arriving at about 3pm Monday NZT (9.50 pm Sunday Peru time).

Air NZ have no seats available on Saturday.

Air NZ have flights via Buenos Aires totaling 19 hours 35 minutes leaving Auckland Sunday 8.15 pm

Arriving Lima 9.50 pm Sunday local time.

Flight availability details:

https://flightbookings.airnewzealand.co.nz/vbook/a...

Farfan will be a sub no doubt about that. Carrillo is better, younger, faster. 
To beat Peru, you need to be smart. Give Peru the ball and make them attack you while pressuring Guerrero, Cueva and Carrillo. Watch the Peru Colombia game. It's on youtube. That's an example of how to nullify Gareca's tactics. Carrillo is good but cannot score. Flores is good and can score but he played injured against Colombia. He might be out for the first leg. Cueva is hot-headed. Get on their heads and they will get frustrated with and without the ball. This team has half the team with players under the age of 23 and wasn't supposed to qualify for this WorldCup but the next.

I'm peruvian and if I'm honest, my team is mentally weak. There is no doubt about that. Do I think my team can easily beat yours?
Absolutely. 
However, if New Zealand plays smart, pressures the front line all 90 minutes and injury gets the best of my team, I'll start worrying about our chances to qualify. But it's a 180-minute game. So, both teams have to play smart. Reason why Mexico beat you guys back in 2013 was one reason and one reason only. You guys only thought of the second leg game at home instead of the first and second leg altogether.  
That Mexican team was one of the worst teams Mexico had to offer throughout their history and you guys played mostly against subs as there was an internal chaos within that national team(mexican football "stars" were upset at management and the press).

Good luck!

Problem with playing on Saturday which I don't think they've thought through properly is that they will have such a long flight to Lima and not much time to recover and train before the away leg which has to be Tuesday 14 at the latest (Wednesday mid-day NZT)

Two flight options:

(1) LAN Chile fly to Lima but it is a more than 21 hour flight via Santiago, Chile.

Seats available on the one Saturday 6.20 pm flight but that's a rush to get onboard after a Saturday afternoon match:

http://booking.lan.com/en_nz/

Various options to fly on Sunday on 22 hours plus flights via Melbourne and Santiago.

(2) If they fly Air NZ, they will then spend Sunday evening and Monday travelling to Peru and arriving at about 3pm Monday NZT (9.50 pm Sunday Peru time).

Air NZ have no seats available on Saturday.

Air NZ have flights via Buenos Aires totaling 19 hours 35 minutes leaving Auckland Sunday 8.15 pm

Arriving Lima 9.50 pm Sunday local time.

Flight availability details:

https://flightbookings.airnewzealand.co.nz/vbook/a...

This brings back my memories of Australia tussling with Uruguay over two WC editions, the 2002 and the 2006 finals.

In November 2001 Australia (under Frank Farina) won at home 1:0 and then went to Montevideo to lose 3:0 with the hat-trick scorer for them, Morales, not travelling to Sydney earlier. The second leg was shambles, and the scenes of Australian players being abused and spat on in the street before the first leg made headlines.

In November 2005 Australia (under Guus Hiddink) lost in Montevideo 1:0 and then went on to win at home 1:0 and then won on penalties 4:2.

The key difference was that In Nov 2005 for the second leg (played as usual mere four days later) the Uruguayan team travelled economy all the long way to Sydney while Socceroos went straight from Estadio Centenario to a charter plane provided by Qantas and flew home in relative comfort (lie down seats, massage etc).

Uruguay still proved a tough team to beat, but I remember seeing their players being too fatigued to perform well in the second leg; with key players Montero and Recoba actually unable to run, deep into the second half. As I recall, only Australia's poor finishing (notably Kewell's and Viduka's misses) prevented the game being won by them in regular time.

Morale of the story is, if we want to have a chance against Peru in the second leg, a special Air NZ charter plane might be the way to go. Since it is our national flag carrier and is not owned by foreign interests, what could be more patriotic than to support our national team in the hour of need?

Truth is playing football attractive wont work for us, we haven't got the players on show, and Peru have beaten fair better teams would play nicer football. We have to play like a Tony Pulis side to stand any chance, hard to beat, good shape and deadly from dead balls. Suggestion of playing like Swansea or Bournemouth are futile, considering, Peru have beaten the equivalent of a Spurs or Liverpool in qualification. 

The only thing they haven't come up against is direct football, it would offer a surprise, play to our strengths, which is a target man in Wood. 

The most important thing in these matches, is to be hard to beat and hold a shape, forget about playing nice.

Agree, and with respect to the hard to beat/long ball stuff, what small nation has put performed with that approach?  It's all about technique these days... 

Farfan will be a sub no doubt about that. Carrillo is better, younger, faster. 
To beat Peru, you need to be smart. Give Peru the ball and make them attack you while pressuring Guerrero, Cueva and Carrillo. Watch the Peru Colombia game. It's on youtube. That's an example of how to nullify Gareca's tactics. Carrillo is good but cannot score. Flores is good and can score but he played injured against Colombia. He might be out for the first leg. Cueva is hot-headed. Get on their heads and they will get frustrated with and without the ball. This team has half the team with players under the age of 23 and wasn't supposed to qualify for this WorldCup but the next.

I'm peruvian and if I'm honest, my team is mentally weak. There is no doubt about that. Do I think my team can easily beat yours?
Absolutely. 
However, if New Zealand plays smart, pressures the front line all 90 minutes and injury gets the best of my team, I'll start worrying about our chances to qualify. But it's a 180-minute game. So, both teams have to play smart. Reason why Mexico beat you guys back in 2013 was one reason and one reason only. You guys only thought of the second leg game at home instead of the first and second leg altogether.  
That Mexican team was one of the worst teams Mexico had to offer throughout their history and you guys played mostly against subs as there was an internal chaos within that national team(mexican football "stars" were upset at management and the press).

Good luck!

The other cliche I find amusing is the target man one. Chris Woods is a target man? Why, because hes big and scores the odd goal with his head?

Have a good look at how and where he scores his goals and what his actual strength is. He scores the majority of his goals in the box and on the deck. A lot of his goals come from being in the right place at the right time, thats a difficult skill to master, its not luck, its related to movement and awareness, its an attribute of a heads up player.

Long balls towards Woods do not in any way shape or form make the best use of his best abilities, they dont compliment or accentuate his actual strengths. The idea of Chris Woods being thought of as a target man is the best illustration of how backward our senior approach to football is.

Shades of Germany v  Austria.....ban both Peru and Columbia and we play 7th ranked team.

Very hard to prove any collusion. It wasn't as if anyone scored an own goal or deliberately dropped the ball into their own net, or stood back and let the other team score.