New manager. Hard nose Aussie who knows his stuff. Willing to say outrageous stuff to keep fans and media pumped. No more “Mr play it straight” plz (unless the players REALLY REALLY like this and need this nice guy approach). We need ambition, but one who understands the NZ/Oceania sensibilities.
I think there is an underlying feeling need some sort of more 'pragmatic' very experienced coach in there somewhere. Either as a defence coach or ideally replacing Bazeley as the boss.
Too much player power can be a bad thing, especially if yes the playing group is a bit overly optimistic on their ability to trouble the big teams.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360999253/all-whites-fell-short-history-2026-fifa-world-cup-what-needs-change-2030
If you told the All Whites back in Boca Raton they would finish the group stage having scored more goals than 21 of the other 47 teams at the World Cup, they would have been ecstatic. In 2010, they only outscored five of the other 31; in 1982 only two of the other 23.
Too much player power can be a bad thing, especially if yes the playing group is a bit overly optimistic on their ability to trouble the big teams.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360999253/all-whites-fell-short-history-2026-fifa-world-cup-what-needs-change-2030
If you told the All Whites back in Boca Raton they would finish the group stage having scored more goals than 21 of the other 47 teams at the World Cup, they would have been ecstatic. In 2010, they only outscored five of the other 31; in 1982 only two of the other 23.
This crop of players wanted to play more football, to put it bluntly, than their predecessors and they certainly did against Iran and in the first half against Egypt. But from the halftime break last Sunday onwards, they were outscored 8-1 as defensive lapses compounded and they ran into a Belgian side with a point to prove after two draws and a need to run up the score to top group G.
The All Whites ultimately conceded more goals than 43 of the other teams in North America and fewer than just three. In 2010 only eight teams conceded fewer, while 12 conceded more, but only one shipped more than their dozen back in 1982.
Several players said being even bolder and braver in possession was the way forward when they spoke after the loss to Belgium and were reflecting on where they fell short against Iran and Egypt.
Several players said being even bolder and braver in possession was the way forward when they spoke after the loss to Belgium and were reflecting on where they fell short against Iran and Egypt.
Maybe so – the players would know best what’s possible – but it’s hard to shake the feeling their next step must be finding a better balance between attack and defence. And it hurts to think that balance could and should have been found before the last fortnight unfolded the way it did.
By their own accounts, Bazeley and his staff have seen their role as facilitating the playing groups’ chosen style of football.
With a player pool as small as New Zealand’s – somewhere around 50 professionals, depending on how loosely you apply the term – there’s logic in using the players’ desires as a starting point, but they can’t be everything.
Two days out from the Egypt match, when assistant coach Simon Elliott was asked how to stop Mo Salah and replied “I think if we have the ball, it makes it difficult, right?” it felt like a glimpse behind the curtain at a team overestimating their own abilities. As it turned out, Salah and his team-mates had the ball plenty.
For all that they have strung together some impressive periods in possession over the past few years, the All Whites’ rest defence – the way they set up to cover counter-attacks when they lose the ball – has been a lingering concern.
............A looming four-month review will decide whether it’s halftime or fulltime for Bazeley and his staff, who will have learnt plenty from their first World Cup experience the same way the players have.
............A looming four-month review will decide whether it’s halftime or fulltime for Bazeley and his staff, who will have learnt plenty from their first World Cup experience the same way the players have.
One factor it’s easy to forget is that there probably won’t be a long list of applicants if there is a vacancy, though it’s possible the Iran and Egypt matches might have piqued the interest of someone notable.
There are no obvious domestic candidates and when good progress has been made under coaches intimately familiar with the game in New Zealand over the past seven years, there should be wariness of turning to an outsider to lead a team that now inhabits one of the more unusual situations in world football, playing competitive matches in name only – and not that many of them – in Oceania and relying on friendlies otherwise.
NZ Football thought they had former Football Ferns coach John Herdman then tried hard to bring back former Phoenix coach Des Buckingham before settling on Bazeley as their third choice in 2023. Buckingham is now at Al-Kholood in Saudi Arabia, where pursuing him might be even harder, than it was when he was at Mumbai City in India, if they wanted to go down that path again.
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Adding to the 2030 wishlist: Qualify with a FIFA ranking in the low 60's.
Why is this a worthwhile goal?
1) It manufactures a competitive element to the 'meaningless' friendlies between now and 2030. If we treat friendlies against non-OFC countries as higher stakes, we could climb up the rankings with a few wins / draws against decent opposition. Not every game will present this opportunity, with injuries, availability etc., but if we target some games, we create the competitive environment we're looking for even when the opposition doesn't.
2) If we achieved this ambitious goal, we'd would likely scrape into Pot 3 for the 2030 draw, assuming it's 48 teams again.
Why is this a worthwhile goal?
1) It manufactures a competitive element to the 'meaningless' friendlies between now and 2030. If we treat friendlies against non-OFC countries as higher stakes, we could climb up the rankings with a few wins / draws against decent opposition. Not every game will present this opportunity, with injuries, availability etc., but if we target some games, we create the competitive environment we're looking for even when the opposition doesn't.
2) If we achieved this ambitious goal, we'd would likely scrape into Pot 3 for the 2030 draw, assuming it's 48 teams again.
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"NZ Football thought they had former Football Ferns coach John Herdman then tried hard to bring back former Phoenix coach Des Buckingham before settling on Bazeley as their third choice in 2023"
This is interesting, my recollection of events as they were reported was that NZF were fully focused on getting Herdman and that by the time NZF realised we werent getting him, we had essentially lost the opportunity to get Buckingham by that point as he had signed a new CFG contract in the interim.
If it was really the case that Buckingham could have came to us at that point but turned it down, it is hard to imagine we could possibly get him now as his asking price will have gone way up since then.
This is interesting, my recollection of events as they were reported was that NZF were fully focused on getting Herdman and that by the time NZF realised we werent getting him, we had essentially lost the opportunity to get Buckingham by that point as he had signed a new CFG contract in the interim.
If it was really the case that Buckingham could have came to us at that point but turned it down, it is hard to imagine we could possibly get him now as his asking price will have gone way up since then.
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Yes realistically Des ain’t coaching the AWs unless it’s some sort of short 1 year type contract leading into a WC that he’d be happy to do for small coin.
Some digging on manager salaries in the Saudi Pro League suggests he’s on min $2-3m there in a low tax environment
Simone Inzaghi (Al-Hilal) is either 1st or 2nd to Diego Simeone as the world’s highest paid gaffer. A measure of the crazy dosh on offer in Saudi
But hey like players I’m sure many managers dream of going to a WC
Some digging on manager salaries in the Saudi Pro League suggests he’s on min $2-3m there in a low tax environment
Simone Inzaghi (Al-Hilal) is either 1st or 2nd to Diego Simeone as the world’s highest paid gaffer. A measure of the crazy dosh on offer in Saudi
But hey like players I’m sure many managers dream of going to a WC
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https://twitter.com/NZ_Football/status/2071739955827879961
https://twitter.com/NZ_Football/status/2071739955827879961
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Whatever else NZF does, it needs to pump the FIFA money into the Under 17 and Under 20 WC's and the elite development programmes to increase the chances of unearthing a gem or two. As many have pointed out, we have the bones of a fair side for the next campaign.
Sadly after a promising game and a half of football, the AW's coaching group ended up being tactically out of their depth against Egypt (second half) and Belgium, along with some selections, so have no doubt some-one (probably Australian) will be appointed to take a fresh more pragmatic approach to the next campaign, and make the tough selection decisions required, especially with our defensive structure, which at best was naive last week.
NZF delivered lots of friendly internationals over the last few years which is great, but as everyone's pointed out, they're meaningless. Honestly sitting at the ground when Eygpt lifted the intensity in the second half, and then Belgium from the start, we looked physically done and tactically had no idea how to hang on and live with them.
I don't buy the world ranking argument. We didn't lose a game at our last WC appearance. We need to be setup accordingly to give ourselves the best chance of hanging in and suffering to grind out a result.
Hopefully NZF and FIFA can swing us an entry at a competitive continental tournament or two through the next cycle. That'll help and I think NZF is already talking about it. Regardless, we need to lift the bar way beyond Oceania, as many nations around our ranking are already onto it.
Sadly after a promising game and a half of football, the AW's coaching group ended up being tactically out of their depth against Egypt (second half) and Belgium, along with some selections, so have no doubt some-one (probably Australian) will be appointed to take a fresh more pragmatic approach to the next campaign, and make the tough selection decisions required, especially with our defensive structure, which at best was naive last week.
NZF delivered lots of friendly internationals over the last few years which is great, but as everyone's pointed out, they're meaningless. Honestly sitting at the ground when Eygpt lifted the intensity in the second half, and then Belgium from the start, we looked physically done and tactically had no idea how to hang on and live with them.
I don't buy the world ranking argument. We didn't lose a game at our last WC appearance. We need to be setup accordingly to give ourselves the best chance of hanging in and suffering to grind out a result.
Hopefully NZF and FIFA can swing us an entry at a competitive continental tournament or two through the next cycle. That'll help and I think NZF is already talking about it. Regardless, we need to lift the bar way beyond Oceania, as many nations around our ranking are already onto it.
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I certainly think the current AWs setup where the players have alot of power, and have basically chosen the fixed 4-2-3-1 shape needs to be reviewed.
As AV may have alluded to is this a situation where the playing group are not quite as good as they think they are, ie overally optimstic they can go toe to toe with the world's best.
Lacking a bit of that word 'pragmatism'. Do we need to play with that 3rd CB?
Lower ranked teams upsetting higher ranked sides has often seen the 'weaker' side favouring a back 3/5 shape, or at least dropping into a back-5 low block in transition eg Australia and Paraguay below.
Paraguay beat Germans on pens (1-1 after ET)
As AV may have alluded to is this a situation where the playing group are not quite as good as they think they are, ie overally optimstic they can go toe to toe with the world's best.
Lacking a bit of that word 'pragmatism'. Do we need to play with that 3rd CB?
Lower ranked teams upsetting higher ranked sides has often seen the 'weaker' side favouring a back 3/5 shape, or at least dropping into a back-5 low block in transition eg Australia and Paraguay below.
Paraguay beat Germans on pens (1-1 after ET)
First Half Possession: Germany 79% vs. Paraguay 21%
Second Half Possession: Germany 73% vs. Paraguay 27%
Total Passes: Germany 719 vs. Paraguay 161
Pass Accuracy: Germany 90% vs. Paraguay 63%
Sooceroos beat Turkey 2-0
Ball Possession: Australia 28% vs Türkiye 72%
Total Shots: Australia 9 vs Türkiye 30
Shots on Target: Australia 4 vs Türkiye 8
Passes Completed: Australia 266 vs Türkiye 702
Pass Success: Australia 74% vs Türkiye 90%
Sooceroos beat Turkey 2-0
Ball Possession: Australia 28% vs Türkiye 72%
Total Shots: Australia 9 vs Türkiye 30
Shots on Target: Australia 4 vs Türkiye 8
Passes Completed: Australia 266 vs Türkiye 702
Pass Success: Australia 74% vs Türkiye 90%
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I’d just like better AW fan experiences.
Few games at home and non particularly meaningful, thought it was nice when they made a mini tournament in NZ.
Game v Belgium:pointless.
Game v Egypt: disappointing finish from us.
That’s 2/3 of our meaningful competitive matches in 4 years.
I suppose we can count the games against the Socceroos where they waited us out and stung us late, as competitive.
We’ve had some good friendlies. It’d be good to see 3-4 competitions of some kind and preferably a couple of those matches at home. No secure places, plenty of football to earn or lose a place.
Maybe even some A league and domestic league squad games too. V OFC league pro stars or whatever…
Few games at home and non particularly meaningful, thought it was nice when they made a mini tournament in NZ.
Game v Belgium:pointless.
Game v Egypt: disappointing finish from us.
That’s 2/3 of our meaningful competitive matches in 4 years.
I suppose we can count the games against the Socceroos where they waited us out and stung us late, as competitive.
We’ve had some good friendlies. It’d be good to see 3-4 competitions of some kind and preferably a couple of those matches at home. No secure places, plenty of football to earn or lose a place.
Maybe even some A league and domestic league squad games too. V OFC league pro stars or whatever…
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martinb wrote:
I’d just like better AW fan experiences.
Few games at home and non particularly meaningful, thought it was nice when they made a mini tournament in NZ.
Game v Belgium:pointless.
Game v Egypt: disappointing finish from us.
That’s 2/3 of our meaningful competitive matches in 4 years.
I suppose we can count the games against the Socceroos where they waited us out and stung us late, as competitive.
We’ve had some good friendlies. It’d be good to see 3-4 competitions of some kind and preferably a couple of those matches at home. No secure places, plenty of football to earn or lose a place.
Maybe even some A league and domestic league squad games too.
Well I was there to watch the qualifying v Fiji. Was great to see Kosta and Tim score for the All Whites and Chris Wood hat trick. I want to see what attacking talent the All Whites have. Got to give joy to us fans sometimes.
However, they ought to target some others next. Beaten Chile recently so maybe target Peru next. To rack up the caps of Lachlan Bayliss and next Luke Brooke Smith play Vietnam/Thailand or China again.
However, they ought to target some others next. Beaten Chile recently so maybe target Peru next. To rack up the caps of Lachlan Bayliss and next Luke Brooke Smith play Vietnam/Thailand or China again.
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coochiee wrote:
I certainly think the current AWs setup where the players have alot of power, and have basically chosen the fixed 4-2-3-1 shape needs to be reviewed.
As AV may have alluded to is this a situation where the playing group are not quite as good as they think they are, ie overally optimstic they can go toe to toe with the world's best.
Lacking a bit of that word 'pragmatism'. Do we need to play with that 3rd CB?
Lower ranked teams upsetting higher ranked sides has often seen the 'weaker' side favouring a back 3/5 shape, or at least dropping into a back-5 low block in transition eg Australia and Paraguay below.
Paraguay beat Germans on pens (1-1 after ET)
First Half Possession: Germany 79% vs. Paraguay 21%
Second Half Possession: Germany 73% vs. Paraguay 27%
Total Passes: Germany 719 vs. Paraguay 161
Pass Accuracy: Germany 90% vs. Paraguay 63%
Sooceroos beat Turkey 2-0
Ball Possession: Australia 28% vs Türkiye 72%
Total Shots: Australia 9 vs Türkiye 30
Shots on Target: Australia 4 vs Türkiye 8
Passes Completed: Australia 266 vs Türkiye 702
Pass Success: Australia 74% vs Türkiye 90%
These are interesting stats which show a pragmatic approach to playing football. You can change your tactics and formation during a game according to how the match is playing out. You can attack early and then defend your lead
Unfortunately we did not see much in the way of tactical changes during matches from the AW management. Baze kept saying we played our game but didn’t do it well enough in the second half of matches. The trouble was he is quite inexperienced in terms of high stake matches. His background is age group football.
In key moments we didn’t react to changes made by the opposition coaches. The most glaring example was the Egypt match where they tweaked their tactics several times. We were getting overwhelmed in certain zones early in the second half. We didn’t respond. Most coaches would have decided to defensively strengthen the midfield and/or add another CB and go to a back five. We were leading at the 58th minute because our first half tactics worked. We should have become harder to break down. We lost the game because we did not react and change to respond to the opposing sides changes. It was all about game management.
For the next WC it’s essential we find a coach who has experience at a much higher level than Baze. Someone who knows how to manage a high level international match. Baze said he learnt a lot from this WC. The World Cup is the final exam not a school.
Unfortunately we did not see much in the way of tactical changes during matches from the AW management. Baze kept saying we played our game but didn’t do it well enough in the second half of matches. The trouble was he is quite inexperienced in terms of high stake matches. His background is age group football.
In key moments we didn’t react to changes made by the opposition coaches. The most glaring example was the Egypt match where they tweaked their tactics several times. We were getting overwhelmed in certain zones early in the second half. We didn’t respond. Most coaches would have decided to defensively strengthen the midfield and/or add another CB and go to a back five. We were leading at the 58th minute because our first half tactics worked. We should have become harder to break down. We lost the game because we did not react and change to respond to the opposing sides changes. It was all about game management.
For the next WC it’s essential we find a coach who has experience at a much higher level than Baze. Someone who knows how to manage a high level international match. Baze said he learnt a lot from this WC. The World Cup is the final exam not a school.
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theprof wrote:
If Wood is around in 4 years time, he'll be likely to be used as a super sub, sure it's possibly that he carries on at a high level for the next four years - his last few years have been his best goal haul in the EPL, so why not. Assuming he keeps himself fit and avoids any injuries then there's no reason he cant do what Messi or Ronaldo have done.
Win back to back Ballon d’Ors?
Fever Tipping Competition
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Eli to buy a couple of uni flats in Plamy Nth.
And seems the players are well aware NZF is getting a big financial injecetion, and will be monitoring somewhat how that money is spent.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360999710/financial-boost-fifa-world-cup-gives-all-whites-and-new-zealand-football
Fifteen other countries joined New Zealand in failing to advance to the round of 32, but they will each take home US$10 million [NZ$17.7m] in prize money, on top of US$2.5m [NZ$4.4m] to help with the costs of preparing for the 48-team tournament in North America.
And seems the players are well aware NZF is getting a big financial injecetion, and will be monitoring somewhat how that money is spent.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360999710/financial-boost-fifa-world-cup-gives-all-whites-and-new-zealand-football
Fifteen other countries joined New Zealand in failing to advance to the round of 32, but they will each take home US$10 million [NZ$17.7m] in prize money, on top of US$2.5m [NZ$4.4m] to help with the costs of preparing for the 48-team tournament in North America.
Those amounts are each US$1m [NZ$1.7m] more than originally announced last December, after FIFA boosted them in April.
Had the All Whites advanced to the knockout stage for the first time, instead of finishing last in group G with a single point, after a 2-2 draw with Iran, a 3-1 loss to Egypt and a 5-1 loss to Belgium, they would have received an extra US$1m.
The All Whites players’ share of the prize money is around 40%, though NZ Football and the NZ Professional Footballers’ Association have not been willing to share specifics as to how it is distributed.
A rough calculation – $17.7m times 40% divided by 26 – works out to around $270,000 each, though that figure fluctuates depending on the US-NZ exchange rate.
A note in NZ Football’s annual report for 2025 flagged projected player payments from the World Cup totalling $5.65m, or $217,000 each, though that might have been before the April bump.
Expect the actual figure to be somewhere between the two.
Whatever the final amount – and Just said he did not know personally, speaking the afternoon after the All Whites’ fate was sealed – it’s a significant sum.
Not one that has necessarily been front of mind over the past fortnight.
“If the prize money was nothing,” Just continued, “everyone would still prepare and want to be here just the same way.”
But one that at the same time will give players some financial stability in what for many of them is still a relatively unstable line of work.
“Footballers have a short career,” Just added, “so when you can, you want to make some money and make sure that you save it and invest it.
“I don't know exactly how much it is. When it comes in, then I'll be sure to speak to the right people and make sure that I'm being smart, which I know I will be.”
Many of the All Whites had families and partners with them in Los Angeles and Vancouver for New Zealand’s return to the World Cup after 16 years away and their share of the prize money will also no doubt cover the costs involved with having those loved ones near.
The last time the All Whites’ qualified, in 2010, they received US$8m [NZ$14.6m] as well as US$1m to help with their preparations.
At the time, $4m was carved off to set up the New Zealand Football Foundation, a charity that helps support footballers and football projects in need. Currently holding almost $7m of assets, it is not expected to receive a top up from this year’s prize money.
Earlier this year, NZ Football reported revenue of $24.2m and expenses of $28.6m for 2025 and forecast increased revenue of $44m and increased expenses of $38.6m for 2026, as a result of the World Cup prize money and the costs of taking part.
In 2018, when current chief executive Andrew Pragnell started, it reported revenue of $13.1m and expenses of $17.7m.
In 2018, when current chief executive Andrew Pragnell started, it reported revenue of $13.1m and expenses of $17.7m.
In 2009 – the year before the All Whites’ last World Cup appearance – revenue was $9.3m and expenditure $7.9m, rising to $17.7m and $9.9m in 2010, prior to the initial $4m donation to the NZ Football Foundation.
The financial growth on display is why Pragnell said “The business has never been stronger” when he spoke to Stuff the day after the Belgium loss.
The night before, Just had said “the pressure was on” the “people who are making decisions” at NZ Football and that there were “no excuses” given the financial injection it was set to receive.
The impact of NZ Football’s increased spending has been seen in the fixtures the All Whites – and the Football Ferns – have played since the end of the Covid-19 pandemic.
There have been matches in almost every window – a vast improvement on what the situation was as recently as 2019 – and a commitment to having both teams play at home at least once a year, one that has only been thwarted once since 2022, when an opponent for the Ferns withdrew at short notice a year ago. Both teams are due to play at home again before the end of 2026.
Pragnell said there was “always obviously a balance to be found in spreading [the prize money] across the development of the game”.
“Over recent years, we've seen increased resources in all areas of the game, from our national teams to our domestic competitions to grassroots and communities. It's making sure that the whole game benefits.
“The national teams as a whole are in a better place than they've ever been before. Certainly it was pre-me, but it wasn't that long ago that our national teams would only play for a couple of years a cycle, almost, and were inactive, and to be quite frank, under-resourced for what they were asked to do, so that's certainly a big part of it, but of course it spreads across the whole game.
“We've come a long way, and we're only going to get stronger from here.”
The other financial beneficiaries from the World Cup will be the clubs players are registered to, including New Zealand’s two A-Leagues clubs, Auckland FC and Wellington Phoenix, who had six and three players respectively in the All Whites’ squad.
For this World Cup, FIFA’s club benefits programme has been expanded to include the lengthy qualifying process, with clubs set to receive approximately US$2360 [NZ$4180] per player per match for each of the All Whites’ five qualifiers.
For the tournament itself, clubs are set to receive approximately US$5000 [NZ$8850] per player per day, from May 25, when players had to be released for World Cup duty, through the day of their last match, June 26 in the All Whites’ case – a total of US$165,000 [NZ$290,000] per player per club.
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The frustrating thing for me is, that we have some established players of a decent level. We also have some amazing younger players with sooooo much potential to improve and be even better than the established ones. Now if only we would play them in their natural positions. The squad could really do us and themselves proud. Of course we might not be as good as say France, But the attacking attractive style that France tries to play, could possibly work for our players. This back and forth across the back line has to be ditched. We put ourselves under so much unnecessary pressure playing this game, especially when sometimes our passing to the oppositions happens more than passing to our own players.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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We are better to look at how the likes of Australia, Paraguay or any of the other underdogs are setting themselves up, at this WC.
Looking at the French is utterly pointless. We probably wouldn’t get one player in a list of their top 50.
Looking at the French is utterly pointless. We probably wouldn’t get one player in a list of their top 50.
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I think though the decision to attack given our midfield strength was a good one, but as mentioned above we couldn’t react. Could we have gone to 3 at the back or a double pivot midfield with Rufer, Bell, Stamenic against Egypt for the second half?
I couldn’t believe it when I heard Simon Elliot reported as saying our defensive plan was to hold possession…
I couldn’t believe it when I heard Simon Elliot reported as saying our defensive plan was to hold possession…
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Yeah that was a noteworthy comment by Elliott if quoted correctly. Reeks a bit of some naviety from the AWs camp, and potentially a slightly inflated view of how good the team actually is compared to a Egypt or Belgium.
Got a bit ahead of themselves, after being ahead twice verus an Iranian team with a hugely handicapped WC preparation? Hindsight can be a wonderful thing.
Got a bit ahead of themselves, after being ahead twice verus an Iranian team with a hugely handicapped WC preparation? Hindsight can be a wonderful thing.
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I will still say it, Egypt and Iran were beatable. VAR was such a joke.
The good news is come 2030, 1/3 of this team will still be around and look promising in their future club careers. I think from that perspective its a result. Woodsy def not part of the playing squad (maybe technical team). The 2029 expanded Club World Cup is going to play a huge role for AFC player developed. The money involved is going to be ridiculous. Phoenix being left out is a scandal.
NZF has to get the next coach right. Leading up to the tournament I and many fans identified the All Whites tendency to concede goals. Baze did nothing about it. Tournament football ain't pretty but the sad part is that this squad had everything to progress to the next round except a decent coach. No All Whites coach had as many positives, advantages like Baze and he dropped the ball.
The good news is come 2030, 1/3 of this team will still be around and look promising in their future club careers. I think from that perspective its a result. Woodsy def not part of the playing squad (maybe technical team). The 2029 expanded Club World Cup is going to play a huge role for AFC player developed. The money involved is going to be ridiculous. Phoenix being left out is a scandal.
NZF has to get the next coach right. Leading up to the tournament I and many fans identified the All Whites tendency to concede goals. Baze did nothing about it. Tournament football ain't pretty but the sad part is that this squad had everything to progress to the next round except a decent coach. No All Whites coach had as many positives, advantages like Baze and he dropped the ball.
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Baze decision to take defense guru Smith instead of Tuiloma cost the Nix a cool $290,000. 10 goals conceded....probably not a great investment.
Considering we got an amazing $4.5 million to prepare us for the WC you wonder about our prep. Only two warmup games when so many players were short of match play.
The Aussies assembled in USA weeks before us to acclimatise.
Also its been regularly quoted we have only 60 pro NZ players. I guess it depends on your definition but this year we had 40?? kiwis playing in the OPL. Plus another 15?? playing for the Nix and AFC plus a few more in other AL clubs. Then add Nth America and Europe pros. 60 seems a bit low to me.
Anyone done the maths?
Considering we got an amazing $4.5 million to prepare us for the WC you wonder about our prep. Only two warmup games when so many players were short of match play.
The Aussies assembled in USA weeks before us to acclimatise.
Also its been regularly quoted we have only 60 pro NZ players. I guess it depends on your definition but this year we had 40?? kiwis playing in the OPL. Plus another 15?? playing for the Nix and AFC plus a few more in other AL clubs. Then add Nth America and Europe pros. 60 seems a bit low to me.
Anyone done the maths?
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If you yes count all the OPL guys, then stuff like the MLS Next Pro (basically a development league), plus all those guys on youth deals in Europe it would be closer to 100.
It's still a very shallow pool, and likely the smallest talent base of any team at the WC. Maybe Curaçao who had nearly their entire squad born in Holland, or the likes of Cabo Verde and Haiti would have similar tiny pools of talent to choose from.
As YH mentioned the other day, crucial that NZF use this FIFA WC dosh to improve the U17 and U20 programs as best as they can. Sounds like Pragnell is keen to find a role for Declan Edge somewhere in the youth development pathways. Declan's track record with the Ole alumni says that can only be a good thing.
I also think a 3rd A League club in Christchurch will be a very useful addition. You can see already how Auckland have given an opportunity to Randall, Gillion, Vicelich jnr, Jonty Bidois, Van Fitzharris and others who may have otherwise struggled to get a pro gig in the shorter term. Revitalised the careers of FDV, Pijnaker, Woud, Elliot, Howieson and Rogerson.
The OFC Pro League will help develop young players as a highly useful bridge between the domestic game and ALM. Isa Prins is now far closer to being near A League ready, than 8 months ago when still at Olympic
The more pathways for Kiwi players the better.
Domestic football/A League academies - OFC Pro League - three A League clubs - overseas for those good enough.
It's still a very shallow pool, and likely the smallest talent base of any team at the WC. Maybe Curaçao who had nearly their entire squad born in Holland, or the likes of Cabo Verde and Haiti would have similar tiny pools of talent to choose from.
As YH mentioned the other day, crucial that NZF use this FIFA WC dosh to improve the U17 and U20 programs as best as they can. Sounds like Pragnell is keen to find a role for Declan Edge somewhere in the youth development pathways. Declan's track record with the Ole alumni says that can only be a good thing.
I also think a 3rd A League club in Christchurch will be a very useful addition. You can see already how Auckland have given an opportunity to Randall, Gillion, Vicelich jnr, Jonty Bidois, Van Fitzharris and others who may have otherwise struggled to get a pro gig in the shorter term. Revitalised the careers of FDV, Pijnaker, Woud, Elliot, Howieson and Rogerson.
The OFC Pro League will help develop young players as a highly useful bridge between the domestic game and ALM. Isa Prins is now far closer to being near A League ready, than 8 months ago when still at Olympic
The more pathways for Kiwi players the better.
Domestic football/A League academies - OFC Pro League - three A League clubs - overseas for those good enough.
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Not sure about that math but one can look at it also as an advantage. Yes quantity is important but really you looking at the quality. Finding the new Woodsy is going to be a huge challenge. I think the main thing this WC has achieved is that more kids will decide to choose the round ball instead of the other. We all know what a huge challenge that is. The Woodsy Effect on the media (and future generations) still hasn't been measured and I think its going to be huge factor attracting kids to the game just like the Ryan Nelson effect was.
I think looking back over the last 4 years, and the number of players getting pro contracts around the world has been exciting. This generation has done it, so there is no excuse for the next. As difficult as that may be.
Here's to the next exciting four year!
I think looking back over the last 4 years, and the number of players getting pro contracts around the world has been exciting. This generation has done it, so there is no excuse for the next. As difficult as that may be.
Here's to the next exciting four year!
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The math is pretty sound.
In the "Kiwi Players Elsewhere" there is 25 entries each page. Mostly they are individual player entries. Sometimes a grouping like "Kiwis in LOI", "Kiwis in USL" etc.
The first 3 pages are nearly all active players (so roughly 75 combined). By page 4 it's becomes a mix of active and retired guys, coaches etc.
Throw in all the Kiwis at the Nix (not in that "Kiwi Players Elsewhere" thread), and most of those in the OFC Pro League also not listed in that thread and yeah it will be over 100. I think it's be stated before that Baze & co monitor about 50-60 guys alone.
In fact it's likely near 100 pro players even without the semi pro guys in the OPL. Again depending on whether a guy like young Noah Dupont is measured as a pro or not.
Semantics. More pro pathways need to happen.
In the "Kiwi Players Elsewhere" there is 25 entries each page. Mostly they are individual player entries. Sometimes a grouping like "Kiwis in LOI", "Kiwis in USL" etc.
The first 3 pages are nearly all active players (so roughly 75 combined). By page 4 it's becomes a mix of active and retired guys, coaches etc.
Throw in all the Kiwis at the Nix (not in that "Kiwi Players Elsewhere" thread), and most of those in the OFC Pro League also not listed in that thread and yeah it will be over 100. I think it's be stated before that Baze & co monitor about 50-60 guys alone.
In fact it's likely near 100 pro players even without the semi pro guys in the OPL. Again depending on whether a guy like young Noah Dupont is measured as a pro or not.
Semantics. More pro pathways need to happen.
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Saffa wrote:
The Woodsy Effect on the media (and future generations) still hasn't been measured and I think its going to be huge factor attracting kids to the game just like the Ryan Nelson effect was.
Not even being facetious, I think the Tim Payne phenomenom, and Elijah Just's goals, probably leave a greater impact on kids than Woodsy. He scores goals in the middle of the night for a team on the other side of the planet.
Whereas most kids would have seen Elijah score those goals in their school assembly hall, and been swept up by Tim Payne social media mania.
Whereas most kids would have seen Elijah score those goals in their school assembly hall, and been swept up by Tim Payne social media mania.
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durandurante wrote:Saffa wrote:Not even being facetious, I think the Tim Payne phenomenom, and Elijah Just's goals, probably leave a greater impact on kids than Woodsy. He scores goals in the middle of the night for a team on the other side of the planet.
The Woodsy Effect on the media (and future generations) still hasn't been measured and I think its going to be huge factor attracting kids to the game just like the Ryan Nelson effect was.
Whereas most kids would have seen Elijah score those goals in their school assembly hall, and been swept up by Tim Payne social media mania.
Obviously kids will remember those moments, but I do think that's seriously underplaying Wood's star factor. I was a kid in 2010 and while I went nuts when Smeltz scored against Italy, I remember of being in awe or Ryan Nelsen that whole tournament because he was clearly a cut above the rest.
Being a premier League player arguably has even more weight now, with the accessibility of games and influence of social media, every kid playing FIFA, etc.
Being a premier League player arguably has even more weight now, with the accessibility of games and influence of social media, every kid playing FIFA, etc.
Annual finals disappointment enthusiast.
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Dude would be in and around the England squad if he was English. And he’d bag a few from Rice set pieces you’d think!
Goals are what matter and the EPL matters to those who half remember match of the day free to air on TVOne.
And those who do know football appreciate a 20 goal EPL season with 6 or 7 double figure goal tallies in his career.
The only pity is he couldn’t score a winner against Iran or Egypt. But that’s a Disney script. And those two assists against Iran should have been enough perhaps.
Goals are what matter and the EPL matters to those who half remember match of the day free to air on TVOne.
And those who do know football appreciate a 20 goal EPL season with 6 or 7 double figure goal tallies in his career.
The only pity is he couldn’t score a winner against Iran or Egypt. But that’s a Disney script. And those two assists against Iran should have been enough perhaps.
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Not denying Woodsy's influence or achievements at all - yes, a 20 goal EPL season is incredible, which football followers understand. But for the average kid and average kiwi in general, the only football they ever notice will be the World Cup.
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Anyone got a Herald subscription?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/football/football-world-cup/new-zealand-football-pushes-to-join-2027-concacaf-gold-cup-seeks-support-of-fifa-president/premium/YTUE5LOKNRAGZK55B4PMUOG2WA/
New Zealand Football are pushing for an invitation into one of the world’s most prestigious tournaments – and are counting on the support of Fifa president Gianni Infantino to get there.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/football/football-world-cup/new-zealand-football-pushes-to-join-2027-concacaf-gold-cup-seeks-support-of-fifa-president/premium/YTUE5LOKNRAGZK55B4PMUOG2WA/
New Zealand Football are pushing for an invitation into one of the world’s most prestigious tournaments – and are counting on the support of Fifa president Gianni Infantino to get there.
Though the pain of the All-Whites’ World Cup exit is still raw, the organisation is already looking ahead, assessing...........
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coochiee wrote:
The math is pretty sound.
In the "Kiwi Players Elsewhere" there is 25 entries each page. Mostly they are individual player entries. Sometimes a grouping like "Kiwis in LOI", "Kiwis in USL" etc.
The first 3 pages are nearly all active players (so roughly 75 combined). By page 4 it's becomes a mix of active and retired guys, coaches etc.
Throw in all the Kiwis at the Nix (not in that "Kiwi Players Elsewhere" thread), and most of those in the OFC Pro League also not listed in that thread and yeah it will be over 100. I think it's be stated before that Baze & co monitor about 50-60 guys alone.
In fact it's likely near 100 pro players even without the semi pro guys in the OPL. Again depending on whether a guy like young Noah Dupont is measured as a pro or not.
Semantics. More pro pathways need to happen.
I have a poorly maintained list that was last updated during the middle of the 25/26 A-League season. I'll try and update it over the next few months once movements and transfers have all settled down.
The key #'s if anyone was interested.
• 70-80 pro players around the world - This # includes A-League contracted players and scholarship contracts. Add about another 10 or so for young Kiwi's who are in and around A-League clubs as youth players and coming through, but without scholarships/contracts as it stands (15-18 years old).
• This number goes up to about 125 once you included all the OFC Pro League guys - This will definitely change, but it's what I had up to the end of the inaugural campaign.
• If you really want to stretch it, the number goes up to approximately 150-160 if you include guys that are playing in the first tier of the NPL - Victoria, Queensland, NSW, Northern NSW, Tasmania, West Australia and South Australia. Some of this number also play for A-League sides who have teams in their respective NPL competition.
For avoidance of doubt, the numbers at the NPL level include a lot of former NZ youth team internationals who have never quite kicked on. The average age of Kiwis at that level of competition, by my best educated guess, would sit at about the 23-26 age bracket.
Hope this helps.
The key #'s if anyone was interested.
• 70-80 pro players around the world - This # includes A-League contracted players and scholarship contracts. Add about another 10 or so for young Kiwi's who are in and around A-League clubs as youth players and coming through, but without scholarships/contracts as it stands (15-18 years old).
• This number goes up to about 125 once you included all the OFC Pro League guys - This will definitely change, but it's what I had up to the end of the inaugural campaign.
• If you really want to stretch it, the number goes up to approximately 150-160 if you include guys that are playing in the first tier of the NPL - Victoria, Queensland, NSW, Northern NSW, Tasmania, West Australia and South Australia. Some of this number also play for A-League sides who have teams in their respective NPL competition.
For avoidance of doubt, the numbers at the NPL level include a lot of former NZ youth team internationals who have never quite kicked on. The average age of Kiwis at that level of competition, by my best educated guess, would sit at about the 23-26 age bracket.
Hope this helps.
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https://www.espn.com.au/football/story/_/id/49199843/darren-bazeley-new-zealand-play-gold-cup-world-cup-exit
VANCOUVER, British Columbia -- New Zealand coach Darren Bazeley wants to see the Kiwis taking part in tournaments such as the Gold Cup, as the All Whites start plotting their next move after their elimination from the World Cup.
VANCOUVER, British Columbia -- New Zealand coach Darren Bazeley wants to see the Kiwis taking part in tournaments such as the Gold Cup, as the All Whites start plotting their next move after their elimination from the World Cup.
Entering the evening with their hopes of reaching the knockout stages still in play, Bazeley's side were thumped 5-1 by Belgium and consigned to the bottom of Group G on Friday, making the call while down 1-0 at half-time to chase the game and subsequently being taken apart by the Red Devils.
Back at the World Cup for the first time since the 2010 tournament, it marked the end of a campaign that had moments of promise but ended in regret. However, with the expansion of the World Cup to 48 teams granting Oceania an automatic qualification slot, the Kiwis, the OFC's premier powers, will fancy their chances of being back in 2030.
But after facing off with Iran, Egypt, and Belgium in the group stages -- three sides battle-hardened in Asian, African, and European qualifying and continental play -- Bazeley acknowledged the need for New Zealand to continue to test themselves against top opposition between World Cups. And when asked if the Gold Cup, which invited Asian sides Qatar in 2021 and 2023 and Saudi Arabia in 2025, could play a part in this, he said.
New Zealand chose to go for it in the second half vs. Belgium -- but fell to a 5-1 defeat which knocked them out. Photo by Alex Grimm/Getty Images
"Definitely, we're definitely pushing to be involved in some of these tournaments, where countries are inviting guest teams in," the coach said. "I think we're starting to get noticed by a lot of countries; they like the way we try to play football.
"They know we're competitive, but our rankings are wrong. It's hard to do much about that, the way the ranking points work.
"So, I think in the future, definitely, the opportunity to play in some of these world competitive tournaments for us will be great."
The only member of the New Zealand squad currently playing regularly in one of Europe's top five leagues, Nottingham Forest striker Chris Wood, who also serves as the All Whites captain, record games holder, and record goal scorer, said consistent top-level opposition, as well as more Kiwis at big clubs, were required.
"You always want to play the best teams, that's how you progress, and that's how you get better," said Wood. "I think we showed that up against Egypt and Iran, we raised our level. We couldn't raise that level to Belgium tonight. Unfortunately, they're a top side.
"If we can get players into bigger leagues around the world, that will also help. But that's a very tough thing to do. It's people who need to go out there, perform for club and country for a long period of time to get those moves. Some of the boys have, and hopefully we'll see them on bigger stages."
The likes of Elijah Just (Motherwell), Marko Stamenić (Swansea City), and Finn Surman (Portland Timbers) were all highlighted by Bazeley as players who had put themselves in the shop window during the World Cup, with Just particularly turning heads with three group stage goals -i a Kiwi record.
Just had informed his agent not to bring potential moves to him with the tournament ongoing, but is now set to return to North Lanarkshire to meet new Steelmen boss Alfred Johansson amidst significant interest from clubs in Scotland, England, and beyond.
"We need more players playing with Chris Wood in the Premier League than we currently have, or playing in those top, top leagues," said Bazeley. "I'm sure some players have come out of this tournament really well: Eli, Stamenić, Surman, they're going to get moves to top leagues, and that'll help make us a better team, because they'll be regularly playing against better opposition."
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Don't know if it adds anything that the above article doesn't as it's behind a paywall but Burgess just did an article on the NZ Herald stating Pragnell is lobbying Infantino for a spot at the Gold Cup.
Nice see the NZF getting straight onto business and acting eith a bit of urgency so soon after the world cup. Speak it softly, but there's tinges of Australia post the American Samoan thrashing of "Hey this OFC situation we are stuck in is no longer fit for purpose"
Nice see the NZF getting straight onto business and acting eith a bit of urgency so soon after the world cup. Speak it softly, but there's tinges of Australia post the American Samoan thrashing of "Hey this OFC situation we are stuck in is no longer fit for purpose"
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coochiee wrote:
Anyone got a Herald subscription?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/football/football-world-cup/new-zealand-football-pushes-to-join-2027-concacaf-gold-cup-seeks-support-of-fifa-president/premium/YTUE5LOKNRAGZK55B4PMUOG2WA/
New Zealand Football are pushing for an invitation into one of the world’s most prestigious tournaments – and are counting on the support of Fifa president Gianni Infantino to get there.
Though the pain of the All-Whites’ World Cup exit is still raw, the organisation is already looking ahead, assessing...........
Here is the Herald article without paywall: https://archive.md/Hhp9p
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I'm sure these comps were on NZF's radar before I emailed their CEO about them as possibilities for the AWs.
New Zealand Football are pushing for an invitation into one of the world’s most prestigious tournaments – and are counting on the support of Fifa president Gianni Infantino to get there.
New Zealand Football are pushing for an invitation into one of the world’s most prestigious tournaments – and are counting on the support of Fifa president Gianni Infantino to get there.
Though the pain of the All-Whites’ World Cup exit is still raw, the organisation is already looking ahead, assessing... priorities for the next four-year cycle. A big focus is getting the team into more events where they can play competitive fixtures, rather than subsisting on a diet of friendly internationals, as was the case in the recently completed cycle.
A key target is the CONCACAF Gold Cup, the biannual tournament for North and Central American nations. It has a tradition of invited countries, including Qatar in 2021 and 2023 and Saudi Arabia in 2025. NZF chief executive Andrew Pragnell hopes the All Whites can be on that list for the 2027 iteration.
“The Gold Cup is something we’re really interested in,” Pragnell told the Herald. “We’ve obviously got to go through the right channels, but it’s next year and there’s certainly opportunities around it.”
Pragnell had exploratory conversations at the World Cup and also pushed the case with Infantino.
“We had a preliminary chat, a conversation with the Fifa president Gianni Infantino around it,” confirmed Pragnell. “It’s something Fifa have identified and it’s an area they want to support us in. So, no commitments, but it’s certainly an area we’re expecting and hoping for support from Fifa for.”
It will take a lot of work – and won’t be easy – but Pragnell wants to do everything possible to make it happen.
“It will need a full court press ... but we have to go for it,” said Pragnell.
NZF are also keen to find out more about a proposed Asian Nations League series, modelled on the Europe equivalent. It was mooted in December 2025 though few details have emerged since then.
“Obviously the Nations League concept has taken off in Uefa and if confederations are looking to establish these types of leagues, then we have to look to be involved wherever possible,” said Pragnell. “The World Cups have shown cross-confederation approaches are being favoured by Fifa. If we revert into our own regional zones, it doesn’t open the game up to its full possibilities. And so, wherever you can involve other confederations, you’ve seen Fifa support get behind it.”
On a more pressing topic, NZF will this month begin their review of the All Whites World Cup campaign. It will involve interviews with every player – along with most of the staff – who were at the tournament. Pragnell expects the review, which will be facilitated by a High Performance Sport New Zealand adviser, to be finished in November.
“That should bring us, we hope, a whole range of recommendations around what’s gone well, what we could do better and if there’s anything we should stop or look more closely at,” Pragnell said. “And that will trigger the start of the next steps in campaign planning for 2030.”
Before that the All Whites will be back in action, with a couple of internationals pencilled in for November 9-17, which are expected to be on home soil. Two to four games are planned forSeptember 21 to October 6.
“We will certainly play in that window and just depends on what matches are available as to whether we utilise all four match days or utilise less,” Pragnell said. “We are not ruling anything out and we are juggling a few options.”
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Seeing how limited Senegal & Australia made Belgium & Egypt look doesnt reflect well on us and hopefully should help seal Baze's fate. We need better coaching and if we get competitive games in the Gold Cup and an Asian Nations League (in conjunction with an effectively automatic World Cup spot) then that should make the job enticing enough for capable and ambitious coaches, NZF just needs to be brave and spend the money to get a good one.
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imanixsupporter wrote:
Seeing how limited Senegal & Australia made Belgium & Egypt look doesnt reflect well on us and hopefully should help seal Baze's fate. We need better coaching and if we get competitive games in the Gold Cup and an Asian Nations League (in conjunction with an effectively automatic World Cup spot) then that should make the job enticing enough for capable and ambitious coaches, NZF just needs to be brave and spend the money to get a good one.
Senegal and Australia are both a lot better than us.
Three for me, and two for them.
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Buffon II wrote:imanixsupporter wrote:
Seeing how limited Senegal & Australia made Belgium & Egypt look doesnt reflect well on us and hopefully should help seal Baze's fate. We need better coaching and if we get competitive games in the Gold Cup and an Asian Nations League (in conjunction with an effectively automatic World Cup spot) then that should make the job enticing enough for capable and ambitious coaches, NZF just needs to be brave and spend the money to get a good one.
Senegal and Australia are both a lot better than us.
If you watched the most recent nz vs aus game in australia you'd know that's not necessarily true. With great coaching we could reach a similar level to them, and everyone knows that in football you don't have to be the better team to get results
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Senegal is a lot, lot better. Unbelievable comeback from Belgium.
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Is Baze stay on? Asking FIFA help to get invited to CONCACAF is great. It's a wonderful tournament that can really help the All Whites.
May I offer a different suggestion...
NZF should ask to be invited to the COSAFA Cup in South Africa. It's an annual tournament between Southern African countries. It was created because most Southern African countries FA cannot afford to host international friendlies. Its 2nd biggest tournament after the AFCON and it's really helped Southern African countries qualify for AFCON.
Now this is the important part, South Africa traditionally tends to select a U23 team (no 1st team or European/MLS based players) for this competition and it serves as a pathway for young players introduction to international football.
For me this is the path NZF needs to follow. Give players that are young and up and coming an opportunity to see how they do in international football and grow the pool of All White players. The tournament has invited other African countries not in Southern Africa but not a non African country. I think COSAFA could be receptive to receiving a NZF request.
May I offer a different suggestion...
NZF should ask to be invited to the COSAFA Cup in South Africa. It's an annual tournament between Southern African countries. It was created because most Southern African countries FA cannot afford to host international friendlies. Its 2nd biggest tournament after the AFCON and it's really helped Southern African countries qualify for AFCON.
Now this is the important part, South Africa traditionally tends to select a U23 team (no 1st team or European/MLS based players) for this competition and it serves as a pathway for young players introduction to international football.
For me this is the path NZF needs to follow. Give players that are young and up and coming an opportunity to see how they do in international football and grow the pool of All White players. The tournament has invited other African countries not in Southern Africa but not a non African country. I think COSAFA could be receptive to receiving a NZF request.
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27 yr old Liam Jordan who obviously spent some years living in NZ played for Sth Africa in the 2017 COSAFA Cup so I think cap tying him to SA.
These days he plays for Piteå IF in the Swedish 3rd tier. He had few seasons at Helsingor in Denmark with Just & McCowatt
NZ fortunately gets its U17, U20 and U23 (Olympics) sides regularly into World tourneys. Not sure there is much extra value in our U23s playing Malawi, Botswana and Mozambique
These days he plays for Piteå IF in the Swedish 3rd tier. He had few seasons at Helsingor in Denmark with Just & McCowatt
NZ fortunately gets its U17, U20 and U23 (Olympics) sides regularly into World tourneys. Not sure there is much extra value in our U23s playing Malawi, Botswana and Mozambique
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