You were pretty silent when the irani government killed thousands of its own people a few weeks ago?Procrastinixing
USA bombing Iran and killing children. As usual FIFA will do nothing
Iranian guy in my building has been dreaming of this moment.
He has friends and even distant family murdered during the protests. There is a massive part of the Iran populace that wants regime change, and it's pretty clear their only real chance was Israel/USA taking out the leadership.
You were pretty silent when the irani government killed thousands of its own people a few weeks ago?Procrastinixing
USA bombing Iran and killing children. As usual FIFA will do nothing
Iranian guy in my building has been dreaming of this moment.
He has friends and even distant family murdered during the protests. There is a massive part of the Iran populace that wants regime change, and it's pretty clear their only real chance was Israel/USA taking out the leadership.
Lets see what happens now. No one really knows.
let's hope that Iranians get to vote the leadership in, and it doesn't go like the last time they did
Story on Marca quoting Iran’s federation President saying it’s currently unlikely they will go to the World Cup. FIFA’s rules apparently say the next best AFC team would take the spot, which could be Iraq - though Trump may insist it goes to a different Middle East team…
Unlikely to be any repercussions to the US I imagine.
In 20 years coochiee will pretend he was always against this, for now like always you cant find an American intervention he wont wholeheartedly support.
The Islamic Republic is terrible but what the USA is doing will not topple it, this will only make things worse for Iranians and everyone else. The USA does not care about the Iranian people, they would be happy if Iran was reduced to a civil-wartorn hellscape because Israel doesnt want any independent powers in the region.
Unfortunately there is no credible opposition in Iran, there is no possible alternative that will be better than the way things are now. Nobody is rising up next week to overwhelm the regime, no matter what the USA and Israel do this week.
Trump will just put his board of peace in charge, just like he's tryng to in Gaza. None of this is about peace and fair government and democracy. It's all about control for the US and Israel.
In 20 years coochiee will pretend he was always against this, for now like always you cant find an American intervention he wont wholeheartedly support.
The Islamic Republic is terrible but what the USA is doing will not topple it, this will only make things worse for Iranians and everyone else. The USA does not care about the Iranian people, they would be happy if Iran was reduced to a civil-wartorn hellscape because Israel doesnt want any independent powers in the region.
Unfortunately there is no credible opposition in Iran, there is no possible alternative that will be better than the way things are now. Nobody is rising up next week to overwhelm the regime, no matter what the USA and Israel do this week.
I support an intervention, that the majority of the affected populace want, and where without the intervention there will be no change to the corrupt evil regime. So yeah for Venezuela see Iran.
The key with Iran now will be are there any sections of the Army that will split away and side with the 'people'. As always it's complex and we have no real way of knowing what will happen. The CIA would have had more Latino speaking secret agents on the ground in Venezuela, and a better understanding of the different factions in Caracas than Tehran. The Yanks will be relying alot on the Israelis for intel and guidance. Are their any pragmatic factions within the Iranian power base/army willing to negotiate (halt nuclear arms production), and prevent a blood bath?
Guy in my building is optimistic it won't all go the way of Syria or Iraq. He describes Iran as more homogenous religion wise (Shi'ite) with only 5–10% Sunni. Plus a big part of the population ain't religious at all. Urban, educated and basically non practicing Muslim. Hence the Atayollahs are hated by most.
But maybe he's being overly optimistic, as the IRG (many uneducated, rural conservative I understand) won't give up power easily. But hey he will know shark load more than us taping our keyboards.
Reject the notion, US wants a war torn Iran. Trump has gone to get lengths to embrace Syria's al-Sharaa (ex ISIS affiliate) who overthrew Assad. Welcomed him to the White House, potentially throwing billions at Syria to help rebuild it.
With Assad gone, potential regime change in Iran (big if) - anti Israel proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis could almost cease to exist. That's good for stability in the Middle East, and the Israelis can get back to signing peace treaties with the Saudis and others. Trumpy knows all that.
Yes. I ask the left this point, why are there celebrations going on in Iran? Chloe has been very quiet for two months whilst over 53,000 Iraian citizens protesting were killed by the Islamic guard on orders from the Supreme leader. And as the left keep on saying, women and children included. Over 350,000 injured. And still Chloe and other left wing interests stayed quiet. I just hope the people of Iran change the countries name back to Persia, they have a Shah in waiting.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
You really dont know what youre talking about coochiee. Nor does the guy in your building. The vast majority of the diaspora are deluded about the situation. It is nothing more than wishful thinking that Trump will be able to topple the regime.
If anything, American and Israeli attacks gives the regime the vast majority of the very low credibility it has. Boots on the ground will be needed to bring them down. The USA is not going to do this.
All the attacks, all the sanctions over 40+ years have achieved nothing, all it has done is greatly deprived the Iranian people.
But the regime will fall eventually, it is a matter of time. The vast majority of the population do not believe in the central philosophy of the Islamic Republic. It is inevitable it will crumble. But this wont do it. The man's too strong for now.
And with regard to Syria, things are much worse now for the Kurds and a bunch of other minorities, and Israel are happily gobbling up Syrian land which they will never return. The Americans have not improved things for Syria, only Israel.
Israel is only 8 million people (and not all of them are Jewish), they know they can't eradicate Muslim influence in the region (over 440 million Muslims in Middle East/Africa)!!
But yes they badly want peace treaties with Saudi, and the gulf states. That was getting close before October 7th - part of Hamas's thinking to jump into Israel that day.
Regime change Iran, their proxies like Hamas almost cease to exist, back to the negotiating table with the Saudis plus others.
And don't forget within the next 3-5 years both Trump and Netanyahu are likely to be gone from world politics. Life will move on. Will the Middle East be a more stable place in 3-5 years. Maybe & maybe not.
It is so frustrating to have to argue with people who think that the nakedly, vocally amoral and self-serving Trump could have benevolent motivations. I am the fool here. You basically need to be really stupid or just as amoral yourself to align yourself with him.
Serious question, and not trying to be a dickhead, but if Biden or Obama did this while in power, will you reaction be different? imanixsupporter
It is so frustrating to have to argue with people who think that the nakedly, vocally amoral and self-serving Trump could have benevolent motivations. I am the fool here. You basically need to be really stupid or just as amoral yourself to align yourself with him.
Obama was far more sensible in that he did the nuclear deal, which Trump ripped up. Obama did a lot of bad stuff but his treatment of Iran was much more sensible.
Edit: to answer the question directly, yes, I would be reacting the exact same way if Obama (who wouldnt have done this, just look at the historical record of his Iran strategy) and Biden (who could very well have done this had he been in power this term) had done this.
Even if this American/Israeli campaign was to bring down the regime, and it wont, the regime would likely unleash hell on the region and its own people in a desperate last ditch effort to remain in power. The ends will not justify the means, for something that is going to happen eventually anyway. It is the gerontocratic Netanyahu and Trump who are trying to do it now for their own glory.
“American officials have said Khamenei was killed along with top lieutenants, including Ali Shamkhani, the powerful former National Security Council secretary, and Mohammad Pakpour, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps commander.
Two Iranian sources tell Reuters that Khamenei was meeting with Shamkhani and Supreme National Security Council Secretary Ali Larijani at a secure location shortly before the strikes started”.. To me it sounds like a very targeted strike to take down the upper echelons of this evil regime, fair game.
As for Obama, he gave Iran billions of dollars, unfroze assets, and it might have stopped “Irans nuclear program” for a little bit, but that money didn’t go into the people of Iran, it went to Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, and prescribed terrorist organisations that have caused carnage all over the world…
imanixsupporter
Biden was just as bad as Trump on Iran.
Obama was far more sensible in that he did the nuclear deal, which Trump ripped up. Obama did a lot of bad stuff but his treatment of Iran was much more sensible.
So let’s try to negotiate with them? “You can only kill protestors on Monday & Thursday but only until 3pm, you can’t touch them after”? Come on, these regimes are evil, and only see violence/fear.. No one wants war, but sometimes war is neccessary… my Irani colleagues are all celebrating, as are thousands of people in Iran, but yes, us in the comfortable West, living a comfortable life in Australia and NZ and never stepped foot in the Middle East should tell them how to feelimanixsupporter
Even if this American/Israeli campaign was to bring down the regime, and it wont, the regime would likely unleash hell on the region and its own people in a desperate last ditch effort to remain in power. The ends will not justify the means, for something that is going to happen eventually anyway. It is the gerontocratic Netanyahu and Trump who are trying to do it now for their own glory.
Nixieboys youre a moron. Obama "gave" Iran nothing, it was only unfreezing assets and lessening sanctions.
But in effect the lessening of sanctions did little to help Iran because there was still great reluctance to invest and trade because people knew America could rip up the deal tomorrow (as Trump duly did).
Nixieboys youre a moron. Obama "gave" Iran nothing, it was only unfreezing assets and lessening sanctions.
But in effect the lessening of sanctions did little to help Iran because their was still great reluctance to invest and trade because people knew America could rip up the deal tomorrow (as Trump duly did).
The major difference between Obama/Biden and Trump is the massive amount of self-interest with the former. Everything he does is purely about making him and his friends wealthy, he has zero interest in global success orf even the average American, it's all about his rich friends.
Again, I am a fool to argue with people who think the illegal assassination of world leaders, particularly by a guy like Trump, is wise and "fair game". I'm a chump for doing this.
The fact that no president gave Iran (rightly so) a cent before and after the Obama administration probably tells you a lot. Anyway, you support Ayatollah and his regime and I don’t, let’s agree to disagree 😊 come on Phoenix! imanixsupporter
Read the article you buffoon. It was money the USA owed Iran, not a gift
Again, I am a fool to argue with people who think the illegal assassination of world leaders, particularly by a guy like Trump, is wise and "fair game". I'm a chump for doing this.
World leader, what an incredibly dumb thing to say!! Khamenei is a world leader in the same vein as was Hitler or Pol Pot.
His death if true, should and will be widely celebrated.
Trump is an unsavoury character, but just sometimes dodgy people can do good things. Do some research on Churchill and you find a racist and bigoted man, who ended doing far more for the free world than 'peace in our time' talking head Chamberlain.
As per Nixieboys above, sometimes you just have use war as way to try bring down a corrupt & evil regime. The more immoral stance would be just to do nothing whilst thousands of civilians are gunned down on the streets of Iran.
You could make the same argument that President Bush should be assassinated for what he did in Iraq, or LBJ & Vietnam, but I'm sure you'd find some way to disagree with that.
Assassinating world leaders in such a fashion is antithetical to natural justice, not to mention likely to result in terrible blowback, but I am not surprised at all that you are either too intellectually or ethically limited to appreciate this.
We are talking about the subjugation of a nation's people by an unelected tyrant/dictator.
Bush and Johnson had their crimes but they weren't gunning down thousands of their own people on their nation's streets. They didn't have street thugs beating to death women for failing to cover their heads. And they actually democratically elected by their people.
Your blanket hatred of Trump, makes it impossible for you to believe for a second that in this instance the US maybe morally doing the right thing.
You would rather the Iran regime were sent a strongly worded email from the UN, or that millions of people shaded their Facebook profiles in the colours of the Iranian flag. Again just sometimes the means justifies the end. Prayers for the people of Iran.
So if you don't like what someone else is doing, it's ok to kill them? Post WW2, international relations have been built on not doing that. What we find ourselves with here is an orange warmonger.
I have an amazing ability to find my way out of mazes. I'm pathological.
I always assumed you guys were an older bunch, but if you were, you'd remember the Iraq War, and this meme is as relevant now as it was then. And I thought all you guys turned against Dubya Bush because it turned out that open-ended regime change wars don't end up well for anyone.
And if any of you wastrels tries to pretend I have *ever* supported the Islamic Republic of Iran, then fudge you guys. This is like those maniacs on Reddit who assumed that T-AFC must be pro-Russia because all lefties love Russia. Real Rightist echo-chamber stuff.
Think about what you'll do when they do this to Ankara next, like Israel say they want. I suppose you mean that this warning means that I love R. T. Erdoğan,
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Again, I am a fool to argue with people who think the illegal assassination of world leaders, particularly by a guy like Trump, is wise and "fair game". I'm a chump for doing this.
World leader, what an incredibly dumb thing to say!! Khamenei is a world leader in the same vein as was Hitler or Pol Pot.
His death if true, should and will be widely celebrated.
Trump is an unsavoury character, but just sometimes dodgy people can do good things. Do some research on Churchill and you find a racist and bigoted man, who ended doing far more for the free world than 'peace in our time' talking head Chamberlain.
As per Nixieboys above, sometimes you just have use war as way to try bring down a corrupt & evil regime. The more immoral stance would be just to do nothing whilst thousands of civilians are gunned down on the streets of Iran.
could we say that the US is building concentration camps, killing citizens protesting, killing foreign civilians in international waters with no declaration of war, over throwing foreign leaders, threatening annexation of foreign land etc.
Does that allow for another country to remove trump from office by any means necessary?
So they have kidnapped one despot and killed another.
Two US citizens have been killed by ICE who yes need to be reined in
They have internment camps filled almost entirely by people who entered the US illegally. To call them concentration camps belittles the Holocaust.
There are far less US troops fighting wars now than in Obama’s reign yet Trump is called the war monger.
I don’t fundamentally like Trump but on some these foreign policy interventions I agree with him. So far Venezuela is fairly calm and some political prisoners have been released. Early days, and it’s an easier solve than the Middle East
Iran we really have no fudgeing idea how this will pan out. I doubt even Mossad who have the best intel of anyone right now know. Certainly all the ME expert analysts don’t know. We wait
I always assumed you guys were an older bunch, but if you were, you'd remember the Iraq War, and this meme is as relevant now as it was then. And I thought all you guys turned against Dubya Bush because it turned out that open-ended regime change wars don't end up well for anyone.
And if any of you wastrels tries to pretend I have *ever* supported the Islamic Republic of Iran, then fudge you guys. This is like those maniacs on Reddit who assumed that T-AFC must be pro-Russia because all lefties love Russia. Real Rightist echo-chamber stuff.
Think about what you'll do when they do this to Ankara next, like Israel say they want. I suppose you mean that this warning means that I love R. T. Erdoğan,
Show where Israel ever said they wanted Ankara. Just left wing b/s
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
You guys are too busy dismissing any cautious voices because they're "left wing" (and therefore illegitimate) to pay attention to what's hapepning.
If this were a regime change war, they would not have assassinated actual opposition figures at the same time. They would have been careful to keep people like Ahmedinejad, Rouhani, even Pezeshkian alive so they could lead a challenge to the theocracy.
This is just a kill-crazy rampage. Rubio, Lindsay Graham, and Netanyahu are ghouls who just like the smell of burning flesh. They don't care about Iranians. (I don't mention Trump because his brains are pudding and I don't think he cares.)
And believe me, my sympathies are with the people dancing in the streets about the death of the theocrat. I have been involved in solidarity with the Syrian people for a decade against their bloodthirsty tyrant Assad - who was backed by the Iranian theocracy. They're dancing in the streets in Damascus, be sure of that. But this will make everything worse.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
So uh, I don't really have any strong opinions on the nuances of geo-politics in the middle east as I'm pretty ignorant apologies...
But given this is a football forum, what's the likelihood of Iran actually playing at the World Cup? And did I read right that Iraq would replace them in the group if they can't make it? If Iraq qualify on their on merit (they're in the interconfederation playoff) who would step in to our group instead?
I've got my tickets to the game and flights to LA booked (holding off on the Vancouver return as it's nearly triple the price as going over!) hopefully there's a game of football to watch !
You obviously believe everything you read. He was PM 4 years ogo, and certainly not relevent. You probably believe everything Helen Clarke says as well. Try thinking for yourself.imanixsupporter
