Vs Mexico 1st Leg Thurs 14th 9:30am SS2

Hello. I would have been quite happy to have had Tuiloma in for Lochead. A fantastic talent. And he knows where the goal is, as well. 

ElGrap - maybe I need to watch it again, but your argument seems to be solely we were not good enough.  Would you not concede at all that we were well below par and conceded some pretty soft goals. Three goals were pretty much gifted and were not from any particular magic from Mexico, more blunders on our part.  Albeit that header into the top corner was a nice finish, how often do you think he expects to get a free header from a corner at international level?  If we had hung in without those bumbles and poor marking the pressure would have been ramping up on Mexico.

Sure we were unlikely to win or even draw there, but I thought we were well below our own standards; tactically and execution, plus relative to player capability.

Maybe significant international opposition has given us too much respect in the past and not put enough pressure on our technical ability, but we've played and looked much better individually and as a team against some pretty good opposition in the past.  Not saying we are wonder boys, but today we looked really off the pace, whereas other big matches we have definitely shown more, held more possession and strung more passes together.  i thought we were at a low across the park.  Maybe altitude.  But i am struggling to agree this was all just basic skill level.  i think we were tactically poor and our execution of the tactics was naive.  We clearly got at least one player selection wrong.  And we had a heck of a lot of ball watching and lack of tracking and marking going on when it counted.  

It just seems to me that writing these guys - and this performance off - as being as good as we get is wrong.  We have played better and can play better.  That is what is disappointing.  I'd be the first to admit we missed Nelly and Winston big time.  But it seemed to me quite a few of the goals we gave up were pretty simple errors, not a lack of technical ability, pace or athleticism. 

I see some similarity in the criticisms levelled at Ricki and Holger Osieck. The Socceroos' decline has been partly attributed to Holger's failure to bring young players in to replace the incumbents. Likewise, Ricki might have had more player options against Mexico if some of the youngsters (e.g. Fitzgerald) had been given more chances to prove themselves at senior international level beforehand. Instead, he felt compelled to stick with the likes of Lochead.

Unfortunately, with the All Whites playing so few games, opportunities to blood young players are few and far between, and I suppose you can't blame Ricki for that.

Actually after Thursday morning our lads know where it is as well.

...oh, did you mean the other goal?

So moving on....

Let's assume we want to try a new generation (DHall can give us 11 premium friendlies for next year) - is this the sort of team we're looking at?

Moss, Roux, Smith, Reid, Tuiloma, Fitzgerald, James, McGlinchey, Rojas, Wood, Kosta

Likes of Smeltz, Henderson still around as forward options. Key area is midfield as we have always struggled here but the James/Weemac combo showed promise. I agree that Weemac is not the be all and end all but he's the best we've got, and he noticeably lifted once James came on - James moved into space more in 2 minutes than Christie did in his 50 minutes on the park.

He has shown with CCM that surrounded by the right players and with the right tactics he is effective, and effective is what we need. The missing bit is obviously the DM/holding midfielder, and hopefully Fitzgerald might be the man? Stand to be corrected if I have him out of position. It does show that we have missed Tim Brown - for all his faults he was usually pretty good for the AWs by doing the basics, ie running around a lot and making tackles (Bahrain was obviously the stand out for this). And he sure as hell showed us he cared.

This team wouldn't have beaten Mexico 1-0 yesterday and isn't the miracle solution but surely it's time to try something different. Based on the number of pros we have playing decent leagues plus youngsters at good clubs we are better placed than 4 years ago - can we find a coach, and some games, to make it happen?

I am not sure Tuiloma is the right option now at LB. I have watched him several times playing for OM U19 and CFA2 sides this season. OM are grooming him as a DM....and he looks like he has the attributes to be a very good DM. He has immense potential but from what I have seen it would be a mistake to throw him into a position like LB in a WC playoff against a side like Mexico. He has not been playing LB...it would be unfair to start an 18 yo in that slot. 

But I agree we potentially have a very exciting team potentially for the next WC campaign

on the bright side it can't get worse than this.

i'd like to see a 4-5-1 in the future like

------goalie--------

d----d-----d------d

---------dm---------

---cm--------cm---

rm------------------lm

-----------st-----------

probably would allow mcglinchey to have more freedom with someone like james along side.

wood up front with kosta and rojas on respective wings/midfields. 

You're a fukn genius. Sigh.

I see some similarity in the criticisms levelled at Ricki and Holger Osieck. The Socceroos' decline has been partly attributed to Holger's failure to bring young players in to replace the incumbents. Likewise, Ricki might have had more player options against Mexico if some of the youngsters (e.g. Fitzgerald) had been given more chances to prove themselves at senior international level beforehand. Instead, he felt compelled to stick with the likes of Lochead.

Unfortunately, with the All Whites playing so few games, opportunities to blood young players are few and far between, and I suppose you can't blame Ricki for that.

u bein sarcastic m8?

I am not sure Tuiloma is the right option now at LB. I have watched him several times playing for OM U19 and CFA2 sides this season. OM are grooming him as a DM....and he looks like he has the attributes to be a very good DM. He has immense potential but from what I have seen it would be a mistake to throw him into a position like LB in a WC playoff against a side like Mexico. He has not been playing LB...it would be unfair to start an 18 yo in that slot. 

But I agree we potentially have a very exciting team potentially for the next WC campaign

Yeah. Sorry. Tired. Just seemed a kinda predictable setup apart from 4 not 3 at the back. bty who's your DM?

I like this side very much and it does give me some hope for the future, provided we actually can play some games - which is unlikely

Like your thinking. Add Wood and Reid and Ryan Thomas in the mix if he continues to develop in the Dutch top division for Zwolle and the best young NZ talent in the Phoenix and David Browne (who will be eligible for NZ in a year), one of the most exciting young players in NZ and another Rojas I believe.

They'll be prime candidates for an exciting AWs for the 2016 Confederations Cup which will be the springboard for the 2018 World Cup.

Good coach, new NZF administration and - oh I'm getting giddy.

don't know, I think its really the only formation to use going forward for nz football. We'll see how players develop over the next few years and see.

Jibes about delusions of adequacy indicate a dismissal of the current drop of AWs outside Reid. No-one is saying we should play like Spain because we can't, but Chris James proved that a fully fit professional playing at a reasonable level (Finland) was competitive at the Azteca. He played some decent possession football and thought about who he passed to. It immediately lifted the performance of our midfield in the second half. This in turn lifted McGlinchey's game, which was surprisingly bad alongside a dreadful Christie. Rojas, still short of match fitness, added further playmaking and we actually pressed forward. Had we had Fitzgerald (J League) Henderson (Sweden) and Roux in the mix I believe we could have put on a better performance. I would have also played Fallon alongside Wood to give us two big target men in the box and pin them back a bit. Also Brockie needs a kick up the bum, he too often goes AWOL. A fit Smeltz should replace him if possible. Barbarouses earned his spurs at the Azteca, so did Moss and Fallon.

It must be very frustrating for players like James, Fitzgerald and Henderson that Herbert has constantly overlooked them in favour of his below par favourites like Bertos and Lochhead. Christie was just bloody-minded stupidity and Butler should never have been there. Herbert will go on doing it until he goes.

I have a question - is Christie flying to Wellington with the rest of the squad? If so, why? It's a total waste of a return business class ticket. Unless Ricki is going to have another brainfreeze and play him again. It's going to be bad enough having a clearly below standard Lochhead running out at Westpac and we're only going to be spared Bertos because of a yellow card and Oceania skullduggery. 

I'm going to lose the f****** plot if Herbert starts Christie in Wellington. 

Like your thinking. Add Wood and Reid and Ryan Thomas in the mix if he continues to develop in the Dutch top division for Zwolle and the best young NZ talent in the Phoenix and David Browne (who will be eligible for NZ in a year), one of the most exciting young players in NZ and another Rojas I believe.

They'll be prime candidates for an exciting AWs for the 2016 Confederations Cup which will be the springboard for the 2018 World Cup.

Good coach, new NZF administration and - oh I'm getting giddy.

I'm going to lose the f****** plot if Herbert starts Christie in Wellington. 

Let's not forget that the All Whites played such few internationals that Herbert really didn't have a massive window to try out younger players in regular international football. That part I don't think is his fault, as he doesn't make the schedule. (Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that)

I'm pretty sure they weren't talking about a potential line-up for Wednesday.

But moving right along… I must admit I'm curious about future DM options myself. Any ideas, or do we just get a zimmer frame with wheels for Vicelich?

I am not sure Tuiloma is the right option now at LB. I have watched him several times playing for OM U19 and CFA2 sides this season. OM are grooming him as a DM....and he looks like he has the attributes to be a very good DM. He has immense potential but from what I have seen it would be a mistake to throw him into a position like LB in a WC playoff against a side like Mexico. He has not been playing LB...it would be unfair to start an 18 yo in that slot. 

But I agree we potentially have a very exciting team potentially for the next WC campaign

"We beat a team that is no more than a group of buddies who were rejected because they couldn't play rugby in New Zealand well and they had no choice but to switch to soccer." - Hugo Sanchez

Like your thinking. Add Wood and Reid and Ryan Thomas in the mix if he continues to develop in the Dutch top division for Zwolle and the best young NZ talent in the Phoenix and David Browne (who will be eligible for NZ in a year), one of the most exciting young players in NZ and another Rojas I believe.

They'll be prime candidates for an exciting AWs for the 2016 Confederations Cup which will be the springboard for the 2018 World Cup.

Good coach, new NZF administration and - oh I'm getting giddy.

I want him to get the job. I think he would be good at it so I am not saying 'he is not an option' for the sake of it. I just happen to have some skinny that I could name a source on in about 2 weeks.