World Cup Squad Discussion

The fact you have Sigmund in there gives me heart burn.

Or at the very least ruin someone else's dream.

I think we needed to draw Italy first up if we were to have a chance of getting a point from there.

We have Slovakia 1st - aim for a win in that game, 2nd Italy - damage control, 3rd Paraguay - a draw there maybe be enough - similar style to Mexico without the same calibre of stars.

I think that we still have to push for a result against Italy. I can see no reason not to nab a cheeky draw or even better if the Italians are on just getting themselves on the go. They would be somewhat prepared because of the confederation cup. They would be aiming to attack either side of the wings again and be even more defensive at the corner kicks. With Reid being our RB and with the knowledge of the Italian Series A looking at him, I imagine that they would target Lochhead on the LB.

We maybe able to surprise them by having Tommy Smith instead of Lochhead at LB. The next strategy for them is the drive though the centre of the park and attack our midfield. I hope that Ricki has that centre of the park locked and loaded with two defensive midfielders and have attacking midfielder with three up front. I can't see 4-4-2 being useful for us when 4-3-3 could increase the depth of the centre and open the end to end stuff better for us in general.

With the few games there are in a group, we need to keep some momentum as we approach Paraguay afterwards. We need to have strong showing I all the games. I would not like damage control efforts with the Italy game. It would be a good game to toughen up the players combinations for the Paraguay game. We still need our best players on the park for all three games. Its the only real way to deal with the big boys now.AllWhitebelievr2010-03-13 18:59:27

What we do against Italy will depend on how we go against Slovakia. Though Slovakia did tremendously well to qualify, I can't see that they are particularly strong. Certainly they are the European team we wanted if we want to have a  chance of progressing. I expect them to underestimate us

I would be going into the Slovakia game looking for a win. If we get a point or more then against Italy I would try to grind out a 0-0. Italy will no doubt dominate possession & territory but they don't often hammer teams. I doubt that we would lose by more than 2.....

So we could go into the final match knowing a win will put us through.... its still a long shot......but as long as Peter Green isn't refereeing we'd have a chance....

Then if Denmark can upset Holland......we'd play them....  and i suppose that means Brazil in the quarters.......which poses a problem cos I haven't got a ticket for the 1/4 finals...

Or Reid Siggy Smith Lochy
                   Nelsen

?

though quite defensive...and why would you want to take Nelsen out of the centre of defense???? still we will have some time for experimenting ahead...

In most groups you need to win at least one game and get a draw. That is a big ask.

Paraguay > Mexico imo.

Saw them in CONMEBOL qualifying a couple of times, a very impressive team.

I think it depends on the scouting report of the teams. We may even have to get Nelsen in as a back sweeper behind instead rather than a front sweeper, and go for a 1-4-3-2. That way we still have some counterattack but really tighten up the defence and really slap out a draw as a planned result.

The point is, that we have players to cover the four defensive position plus an extra option opening up that was not possible before because of available CBs.

Reid suddenly becoming avalible is disgusting. He all of a sudden makes the choice to play for the all whites but not because of the world cup..... Yeah Right. He shouldn't be making the 23... What a joke!! 

^^ us not taking our strongest possible team would be a joke.

And stuff all of the others who got them there?? Where was Reid and Smith before they made it?? They never thought they would get there, and didn't want a bar of it, but now we do and they all come out of the wood work.  Its better to take a team who know eachother and have worked together the last 2/3 years if not longer. Will be interesting to see if they stick around after the WC...

Do you know anything about his history?

If we didn't take our best players we'd be idiots!

Great first post btw.

Traitor2010-03-15 19:11:26

This is no difference to how every other teams at the World Cup Finals are selected. Its the World Cup and we are up against professional players not part-time amateurs. That's not to say that some of the players that got us there are not appreciated, but at the end of the day, the results are what people will remember and Ricki and the coaching staff, NZF, and the players are all accountable.

Also for him to decide while he also had a chance of being in the Denmark national team which plays in the Euros and the World Cup itself is a huge decision for him. He has been earmarked for years in Denmark for the national team, so for him to choose us and ensure better future international results of the All Whites is great for us all. We benefit from it than he does. Having a team that qualified for the World Cup without some of these players that literally would have walked in, tell us that the depth has improved. It will increase competition for places and allows us to improve.

I understand that players may have been left out, but if they have lost form and are not getting game time. Why should we play a player that is not up to it at the time? We need the best players that are playing regularly and are on form come tournament time.

Both Reid and Smith are professional players and to move from one place to another may seen selfish, but it is not, it is business.

However to player playing for the country, it becomes a bit more personal for players in or out of the team. They work hard for the years themselves, in a foreign country with little contract with family and at a very young age. They have given up much themselves to be the best in their game. They don't get much chances but has to make it themselves. Why would they not be given the chance to play in the tournament as their whole life they have done so much.

Sure it is gut wrenching for the players to be left out. However I hope that in someway that NZF and Ricki would acknowledge the players in the qualification stages. That is something that noone can take away form them.

As it is, the 18 players in the playoff are in the driver seats. But with the change of form and the coming into form as well as the availability of players, there is always a change of player selections.AllWhitebelievr2010-03-15 19:47:40

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/championship/newcastleunited/7443206/Newcastle-striker-Andy-Carroll-considers-switch-from-England-to-Scotland.html

Traitor2010-03-15 21:26:10

Can't Carrol also play for Aussie?? I'm sure that's what it says on fm10??

I don't mind too much that these guys have come in for the world cup. It just makes us stronger for future tournaments really. Especially as some of these guys are still young. I can't see the likes of Elliot and Nelsen hanging about for too much longer...

  Once they've played for the full team they can't represent any other country so they will have to 'stick around'

Nelson has to stay in the back four but Ivan played that holding role a lot in Holland - wouldn't be a bad option.

Pasty, Nelsen updates?

For me there are two simple questions to answer.

1) are they Kiwi's? Having been born here I would say YES they are. I think I am right in saying that Reids dad is Maori? This is unlike say Daniel who is Brazilian or Eduardo who will never be Croatian or that Nigerian who plays for Poland (give me strength!!!)....

2) are they good enough? In both cases the answer appears to be yes.

it doesn't matter that either or both were slow to say "yes I want to play for NZ. " It doesn't matter that they may be replacing someone that played v Bahrain or were part of the squad.

If they are Kiwi's and good enough then we'd be daft not to select them

I can see Mulli and Scott missing out but pretty sure Barron will be there. With only 2 new faces really emerging and Barron having played a decent role against Bahrain and Mexico it is unlikely he'll miss out.

Addicks2010-03-17 10:21:51

holy crap now that would be amazing. still atleast 2 seasons left for him in blacburn i reckon though.

A couple of issues - firstly, Smith was not born in New Zealand.

Secondly, please don't talk about things you don't know about - Eduardo came to Croatia as a 14-year old, speaks excellent Croatian, is married to a Croatian woman with whom he has a daughter, and continues to own a home in Zagreb although he's been living in London for the past three years. He's certainly more Croatian than McGlinchey, for example, is a New Zealander.

On the wider point, beggars can't be choosers - if we have players who are eligible to play for us now and who are clearly better than what we already have, we have to use them. It's the main way we can get better internationally in the short-term.

Sorry, my mistake on Smiths birthplace... i was actually thinking about Reid when i was writing but didnt make that clear.

On Eduardo... I think he was 16 when he was poached by Dinamo Zagreb purely for football reasons. Its not like he (or his parents) made a family decision to emigrate. He may indeed have married a Croatian and own a home in Coatia but neither of these  things make him Croatian. He is 27 years old and has spent about 7 years in Croatia. He doesn't have Croatian ancestry.....He's simply not Croatian and is playing for that country probably cos he thought he would never be picked for Brasil.
And yep - you are probably right about McGlinchey

I guess looking at the bigger picture, FIFA should tighten up their eligibility criteria.

He was 14, this was before FIFA changed the rules on signing young ones. I don't see how the fact he came to Croatia for football changes anything I've said. He spent his formative football years in Croatia, learned the language, made the country his home, and has a family there. Do you not think that immigrants can successfuly adapt and integrate into societies that they emigrate to, and be proud members of that society, and proud to represent that country in international sport? If that's your view, then it also applies to both Smith and McGlinchey.

As to the wider point of tightening-up regulations, FIFA have done that just recently. But the wider point that also needs to be recognised is that the world is a much smaller place these days, and migration is a global trend that's not going away any time soon. If you want to shut out immigrants from full participation in their new chosen countries, then you're setting down a path few will follow, since most Governments, and FIFA, are going in the oppositie direction. You just have to have a look at the German and French national teams to see that.el grapadura2010-03-17 15:39:12

According to Wiki he was 16.

And no he did not spend his formative years in Croatia he spent them in Brasil - we know that because Dinamo spotted the talent and took him whilst they were allowed to. Yep he developed further in Croatia but then i would argue that being schooled in a certain country doesnt make you a citizen either.

I DON'T want to shut out immigrants from their new countries, because i agree that there are many many reasonable examples where people emigrate.  What i would suggest is that there are clear simple rules about eligibility I'd suggest.... Your birthplace, your parents birthplace or ten years residence. Currently its too easy for mercenarys to change countries for personal benefit rather than actual patriotism. Five years isn't a long enough qualifying period if you ask me. If they are really patriotic they won't mind waiting another 5 years.

However we look at it, and whether we like it or not, Eduardo is Brazilian. He was in Croatia just THREE years before he took Croatian citizenship. Hmmm 16 years in Brazil, 3 years in Croatia and that makes him a patriotic Croatian???    It is abundantly clear that he took Croatian citizernship to further his footballing career.

It would sicken me if say Daniel suddenly was given Kiwi citizenship and went to the world cup with the All Whites. (and not cos he is often crap!)

You are right about the Germans & the French - the Dutch are pretty good with their immigrants too!!

He signed the professional contract at 16. Arrived when he was 14.

And if you think that formative footballing years occur prior to that age, you'll find yourself in a very exclusive group of 1.

And calling a teenager a mercenary is going a bit too far, isn't it?

And this is a very ignorant comment.

You don't know enough about Croatian football or Eduardo himself (I can tell that even without your obvious reliance on Wiki for info in this case) to be stating things like that. He did not play an official game for Croatia until 2006 - why is it so hard to understand that he simply liked the country and decided to make it his home?

And lastly, Daniel has got NZ citizenship (it was fast-tracked last year). But he's not eligible to represent NZ until 2012, because the new FIFA regulations require 5 years of residence before you can take the field for the adopted country.

First of all, Daniel is a NZ citizen, and secondly he's not allowed to play for the All Whites at the World Cup because he hasn't been a citizen for long enough.

Thats not hard to understand at all. Thats acceptable to me as well!! But that doesn't make him Croatian...its not rocket science. It sounds to me that you are arguing along the lines of "if you want to be represent any given country, you should be allowed to be"

My argument is along the lines of "to play for a country you need to have some reasonable eligibility criteria" and i believe 5 years is WAY too short.

As you may have seen I am based in Oz (Vic actually) I knew that he was trying to get Kiwi Citizenship, but didnt know it had come through.

do you consider him a Kiwi?

Firstly yes I do believe that your formative years are younger than 16. Not many kids have never played football prior to the age of 15 and sign professional terms at 16!

Without ever having spoken to Eduardo I would guess that he went to Croatia because Dinamo approached him. Not because he was sitting around at home  watching Discovery channel and thought "what a great country I feel an affinity with them - I must go live there!"
He went because they approached him and its reasonable to think he took citizenship to further his international career.

BTW I am not anti Croatia nor anti Eduardo.... but I am (obviously) anti the whimsical way in which some countries select their football teams