National League / OCL

No habla Espanol - the NZFC bitch fight

1196 replies · 141,694 views
about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Won 1-0 in Noumea Manel Exposito free kick 80 mins
Thanks Oceania for the great coverage of the game on website good job guys!!!!
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From that famous New Zealand footballing family?


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Missed you at the weekend Baiter?!!!

Starting XI
Spoonley NZ
Pritchett NZ
Vicelich NZ
Campbell NZ
Hogg      NZ
Mulligan NZ
Feneridis NZ
McGeorge NZ
Koprivcic NZ
Dickinson ENG
Exposito SPAIN

9 out of 11 NZ players!!!!

Phoenix team that LOST on friday
Vukovic   AUS
Muscat    Malta
Lochhead NZ
Ward      AUS
Brown     NZ
Hearfield AUS
North     AUS
Sigmund   NZ
Rojas     NZ/CHILE
Durante   AUS
MacalisterAUS

I guess the math is simple even for a mug like you      JordyBean2011-02-21 23:20:14
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So Rojas is NZ/Chile?

Doesn't that make Koprivcic and Vicelich NZ/Croatia? Feneridis NZ/Greece?
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I think you will find David Mulligan is even more so what with being a scouser by birth.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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Sorry has Rojas confirmed he wants to play for NZ?

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Baiter wrote:



YAWN YAWN YAWN get new pictures there getting about as boring as your ASB Premiership match reports
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JordyBean wrote:
Sorry has Rojas confirmed he wants to play for NZ?



Why should he have to?
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he doesnt, id heard he was thinking of playin for Chile
hence the NZ/Chile
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The kid was born here, played all his football so far here - unlike, for example, Daniel Koprivcic, whom you're quite happy to label as just NZ. Have you asked him if he'd prefer to play for Croatia instead of NZ if he was ever in a position to make that choice?
By the way, what makes you think Chile would want him in the first place?
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I never said they would!!! read the post properly i just said id heard on the radio i think he was considering trying to play for Chile
and Daniel Koprivcic has played for NZ so i guess he made his choice
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His ability made the choice for him.
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Maybe so but your point is still invalid as usual!!!
still doesnt alter the fact that Auckland City have a mainly Kiwi squad and the Phoenix do not regardless of who Rojas plays for
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I really don't see your point.
 
ACFC 9/11
Phoenix 4/11
 
So?
 
Doesn't the emergence of Rojas kind of crap all over your "phoenix does nothing for NZF in terms of developing players" argument?
 
If NZ players are good enough,they will play for the nix. It gives players something to aspire to - being a professional footballer in your own country.
 
Not to mention all the 500,000 supporters the phoenix have bought along to football games. Plus the extra press coverage the nix are bringing the sport.
So,what was your point again?

Allegedly

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ask Baiter he made it
500'000?
its the same people going each week mate not 500'000 different people
The emergence of Rojas goes to show that players from the NZFC are good enough to play A-League despite the Phoenix reluctance to sign more NZ players
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Meanwhile ACFC 1 nil over AS Magenta last night.
83rd min Manuel Exposito.
http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ofc/News/ViewArticle/tabid/125/Article/62c00403-0583-4ffc-b84b-09b7490c091e/language/en-US/Default.aspx
So now three points clear in our OCL pool.edward l2011-02-22 07:15:48
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JordyBean wrote:
ask Baiter he made it
500'000?
its the same people going each week mate not 500'000 different people
The emergence of Rojas goes to show that players from the NZFC are good enough to play A-League despite the Phoenix reluctance to sign more NZ players
 
Jordy - I know this has become a wind-up thread but who do you nominate as the NZ players who could play at the Phoenix and aren't?
 
 

Normo's coming home

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
JordyBean wrote:
Maybe so but your point is still invalid as usual!!!
still doesnt alter the fact that Auckland City have a mainly Kiwi squad and the Phoenix do not regardless of who Rojas plays for


We both know who Rojas will be playing international football for...but don't let that get in the way of your theories.
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james dean wrote:
JordyBean wrote:
ask Baiter he made it
500'000?
its the same people going each week mate not 500'000 different people
The emergence of Rojas goes to show that players from the NZFC are good enough to play A-League despite the Phoenix reluctance to sign more NZ players
 
Jordy - I know this has become a wind-up thread but who do you nominate as the NZ players who could play at the Phoenix and aren't?
 
 
NZ players from Auckland City? Spoonely has been in great form this season from games i have seen. They have Crowther down there but Spoonley is far better and is a kiwi so i dont understand Rickis thinking. Hogg is another that could easily manage a-league. He has been brilliant past two seasons and was a standout at world club championship. The new Barcelona lad down at City could play a-league but hes spanish so a bit off the point.
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Spoonley was let go (by mutual consent?) because as a young keeper, it was better for him to have game time. I respect that Jacob is very good at national league level and I actually like him as a keeper. Don't forget that Bannatyne was preferred as the 3rd choice keeper for the WC squad. His height is always going to be to his detriment and thats why he is not elsewhere.
 
Ian Hogg? Really? He would never finish a game at A League level because of his tackling - you are talking about A League referees here. Had a good CWC but by the same token that Marco has had a good 10 games, thats not indicative of a great career. Good at Premiership, won't last in the A League.
 
If these players were that good, they would have had a shot by now or at the very least be playing elsewhere at a better level. Remember that your own Mulligan is not playing at that level (or anywhere else either) and he has more talent that Hogg will ever amount to. Krishna - a better player than Hogg, has had a couple of trials and done nowt. If Hogg could easily manage the A League, surely he'd be in the All Whites right?
 
As HN said, have a chat with Sigmund as to the difference between the two leagues. There are no players in NZ that would not be able to 'easily manage the A League' and I suspect that any Kiwi prospect that does step up, needs a lot of work before they are even ready. Sigmund, Kosta, Marco - none of them signed with them being tagged as 'easily being able to manage the A League' 

Grumpy old bastard alert

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Come on JV, let's not reality get in the way of a good yarn.
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I apologise. It's all those '40s I've been chugging recently. My supply recently ran out and look what incoherent details came out....

I'll get back inside my whiskey bottle where ACFC are the 5th best team in the world, the Nix are evil for anything related to football (NZ, Pacific or even just at O35 div 2 at Pollock Park), ACFC produce a majority team of locally fostered talent because of their strong grassroots and community orientated childrens football programmes and all of those players would smash the A League players and make fools of such turnips as Hernandez, Allsopp, McKay, Carle, Smeltz and the evil Ifill....
 
Hook me up with a '40 and I'll be on my way.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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Jeff Vader wrote:
 Krishna - a better player than Hogg, has had a couple of trials and done nowt.
 
Different positions though so the point is moot.

Three for me, and two for them.

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Buffon II wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
 Krishna - a better player than Hogg, has had a couple of trials and done nowt.
 
Different positions though so the point is moot.
 
Is it though?
 
One person claiming Hogg is good enough for A League, another saying someone who is a better player wasn't good enough for A League. 
 
I think he made the point he was trying to make.
 
Anyway, carry on...

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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Jag wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
 Krishna - a better player than Hogg, has had a couple of trials and done nowt.
 
Different positions though so the point is moot.
 
Is it though?
 
Yes. Krishna is better than Hogg in certain areas, and vice versa. Hogg wouldn't be trialling (if he trialled) as a striker/winger so would be viewed in a different light than Krishna because he would have a completely different role.

Three for me, and two for them.

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JordyBean wrote:
ask Baiter he made it
500'000?
its the same people going each week mate not 500'000 different people
The emergence of Rojas goes to show that players from the NZFC are good enough to play A-League despite the Phoenix reluctance to sign more NZ players
I never said it was 500,000 different people.
 
The emergence of Rojas shows that ONE player from the NZFC is good enough to play A league. Lets not exaggerate to prove your point now.

Allegedly

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Buffon II wrote:
Jag wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
 Krishna - a better player than Hogg, has had a couple of trials and done nowt.
 
Different positions though so the point is moot.
 
Is it though?
 
Yes. Krishna is better than Hogg in certain areas, and vice versa. Hogg wouldn't be trialling (if he trialled) as a striker/winger so would be viewed in a different light than Krishna because he would have a completely different role.
The level for both positions they're aspiring to is the same.
 
If Krishna is considered better in his position than Hogg is in his,and Krishna couldn't make it,then it stands to reason that Hogg wouldn't either.
 
You're right it is a weird example,and certainly not the best. I hate theoretical examples like that too. But i wouldn't go as far as calling it a moot point.

Allegedly

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Jeff what have you been smoking..Hogg is a left back and Krishna is a striker/right winger. You cant compare the two. If you have watched over the past 2 or 3 seasons you wouldve seen Hogg mark both pearce and Krishna out of games. You say his world club championship performances were lucky, you must remember hes playing against players who are world class and alot better than what he would face in a poorer a-league.  Krishna has been quiet this season but has shown a-league potential. I still think Spoonley should be back in Phenoix, he would get game time in reserve team now where before he just sat on his bum.

I dont think Phenoix will look to much into Auckland Citys talent pool however, Seems to be sour grapes because the phenoix feel City are taking their spot at world club champs.

Politics play a big part in NZfootball, so to ask why he or she isnt getting picked? theres probably alot more to it sadly.

Jeff tell me a better left back and a better goal keeper in ASB premiership. Im starting to doubt you have any knowledge about the game or more its a personality clash with city players.
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Hard News i was asking Jeff, however i did watch Imray last week vs City and he played realy well.
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Roger Rabbit wrote:
Jeff what have you been smoking..Hogg is a left back and Krishna is a striker/right winger. You cant compare the two. If you have watched over the past 2 or 3 seasons you wouldve seen Hogg mark both pearce and Krishna out of games. You say his world club championship performances were lucky, you must remember hes playing against players who are world class and alot better than what he would face in a poorer a-league.  Krishna has been quiet this season but has shown a-league potential. I still think Spoonley should be back in Phenoix, he would get game time in reserve team now where before he just sat on his bum.

I dont think Phenoix will look to much into Auckland Citys talent pool however, Seems to be sour grapes because the phenoix feel City are taking their spot at world club champs.

Politics play a big part in NZfootball, so to ask why he or she isnt getting picked? theres probably alot more to it sadly.

Jeff tell me a better left back and a better goal keeper in ASB premiership. Im starting to doubt you have any knowledge about the game or more its a personality clash with city players.
 
I fail to see how ACFC are taking our spot in the world club champs. To say we aren't signing players from Auckland because we feel they're taking our spot is a massive yarn.
 
Krishna had a trial,failed to impress. Spoonley could well come back and play in the reserve side.
 
I still don't quite understand what is being argued here. It just seems like a mess of "no you're wrong,im right" without any point to it.
 
So what if Auckland have 9 kiwi players in their last 11 while nix had 4.
 
 So what if Hogg and Krishna are the best in their positions in the NZFC? Has nothing to do with the phoenix unless they're good enough,which you cannot prove by saying "hogg marked Krishna out of the game. Don't go making up massive yarns about CWC jealousy in an attempt to make your argument valid.
 
So what if it isn't 500,000 different people that have come to nix games. Thats still a hell of a lot more than would have come if the nix weren't around. Are ACFC or any NZFC side anywhere near that mark? probably not. Does it matter? no.
 
The NZFC is doing its part,the phoenix are doing theirs. The only hostility i see is coming from ACFC circles toward the phoenix. And its mostly without any sort of justification. Most phoenix supporters support the NZFC. in fact a lot of people who previously only supported overseas clubs,now support the phoenix and as a result the NZFC too.
 
How is all this causing argument?

Allegedly

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Jeff Vader wrote:

I apologise. It's all those '40s I've been chugging recently. My supply recently ran out and look what incoherent details came out....


I'll get back inside my whiskey bottle where ACFC are the 5th best team in the world, the Nix are evil for anything related to football (NZ, Pacific or even just at O35 div 2 at Pollock Park), ACFC produce a majority team of locally fostered talent because of their strong grassroots and community orientated childrens football programmes and all of those players would smash the A League players and make fools of such turnips as Hernandez, Allsopp, McKay, Carle, Smeltz and the evil Ifill....


Hook me up with a '40 and I'll be on my way.


And where the Phoenix are the 6th best team in Australia
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Yawn

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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The Phoenix reinvigorated my love of NZ football and as a result I now spend much more time supporting HBU in the ASB Premiership.
 
Siggy and Marco have come out of the NZFC and acquited themselves well at A League level. Manny came from the Victorian State League and he is exceptional for us [all-be-it after taking time to settle at the higher level]. I think Lovemore has probably shown enough to suggest he could compete at A league level, we can be pretty sure that Clapham could do just as well as some of the donkeys we and others have played in the a League.
 
I think the Nix could do a little better in bringing in full time NZ talent. Its been raised plenty of times on here that we could just as easily had Kiwis in certain back up positions rather than journeymen foreigners. Some of the players from last season that we could have had Kiwis do the same [or better job] were: Crowther, Toto, Diego, Pav and maybe Daniel.  Having 4 locals who might turn into a Marco with the right opportunity would do wonders for NZ football don't you think?
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Tegal
wrote:
The NZFC is doing its part,the phoenix are doing theirs. The only hostility i see is coming from ACFC circles toward the phoenix. And its mostly without any sort of justification. Most phoenix supporters support the NZFC. in fact a lot of people who previously only supported overseas clubs,now support the phoenix and as a result the NZFC too.
 
So much this. The only sour grapes seem to be coming from City fans who feel the Phoenix are hogging the limelight for football coverage and status.
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Gentleman.The major problem we have  is that the Head Coach of All Whites  and Phoenix are one in the same. How can a young player change the coaches opinion of him by proving himself in the All Whites, if doesn't get selected for the Phoenix because it is the same person selecting. As for Hogg, word on the street ,it has nothing to do with his tackling or ability ,it's his father's association with Stu Jacobs that may be holding him back . You only have to watch his performances on TV at the Olympics  like I did and also  at the World Club champs to see he has talent and pace to burn .He would have to be Auckland City's most standout player over the past two seasons .Once a selector has formed an opinion, as Herbert and Turner have , it appears difficult to break in to the National squad.He would add class to any A league team t left back .
PS Would Krishna not have been a better choice than Lovemore 
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scalp wrote:
PS Would Krishna not have been a better choice than Lovemore 
Short answer: Lovemore > Krishna.
 
Long answer: A youth player who doesn't count as a foreign signing and has played well for the Phoenix in trial matches including against A-League opposition > An overage player who counts as a foreign signing and failed to impress while playing for the Phoenix in trial matches against Central League clubs.
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Roger (or is that Ross) when you first raised your argument about players who would easily manage playing in the A League, you never said 'I'm talking about left backs and right backs or orange peelers'. You stated two players. I have an issue with one of them. Now if you want to get position specific, then you are changing the ballpark.

a: I agree Hogg has pace and in terms of a better left back in premiership, I don't think there is one. Still doesn't mean he is A League material. Whose the best striker in the premiership? Is he worthy of a call up? Probably not. I never said they were lucky performances at CWC. He played well consistently through that tournament, doesn't mean he is going to be a superstar (again he would be elsewhere if he was) Is the best CM in the comp (Mulligan) playing at the Phoenix? Well he did but he is not - why is that again? I could name a few players better than Hogg (not position specific) that still never get a look in at the nix. The best player at City isn't even getting a look at thats his choice (Vicelich). Coombes was doing enough for a look. If he sorted his head, he could be an A League player more so than Hogg.

YHM: Matt Borran has had a screamer of a season for Manawatu. I wouldn't say he is a better keeper than Spoonley, but he has performed much better and made some saves this year he should never have made and I think possibly you would not have made when you played for City.
The young kid Dale Higham has potential to be something. Potential is the key word. Any team that relies on Matt Kennedy and Nathan Cooksley... well thats why they are bottom. Falveyr has been tossed twice and is a bit too emotional. I feel for Cowan whom is a workhorse. Whitey playing for himself and Jason who?
HBU: The young kid at Hawkes Bay that everyone raves about, Bevin - I'm not convinced he is the goods. I think he is too slow and I don't think will not go much futher. They rave about Marama Thompson?  Very unco-ordinated. The new player Scott Gannon has to learn ball possession in the NZ game and while they are still wheeling out JT, there is not much in that team. Marvin Eakins? Matti Hastings? Nice guys but nothing to scare anyone and Chris Greatholder is looking ok until you kick his knee. Not anything in that side that would have the Phoenix looking too hard.
TW: There is nothing really other than Imray that I would want to look at. Mickey Halikis and John Sutherland and not players that really scare anyone. Scott Robson has been ok. They are actually the team that is a great sum than their parts are independently.
OU: hmmmm Tim Horner is out injured and they are relying on bit part minutes from an out of shape Aaron Burgess (how he was an all white, who knows) Cobs has mellowed and the bid tall lanky kid in the middle is useful but useful in an ordinary side.
CU: Clapham is the obvious target but he hasn't looked the same as last year without Tom Lancaster beside him. Ryan Faichne looks better. Glen Collins is a thug and Pitman is still useful for unsettling other sides.Joe Murray is a bonefide headcase and I do not think as much as of Glen Collins as I used to because he does not look like the captain of that team (nice lad though) Russell Kamo? Pah!
WFC: I must admit Jason Hicks has impressed me but I would not think he would be A League material.. Strom has lost weight but he speed and discipline was seriously shown up last week.
I'll leave Waitakere out as I'll be accused of being a supporter of them next.

Hows my knowledge? I can give you shirt numbers and positions too if you like. At least bring an objective view to the conversation.
Jeff Vader2011-02-22 22:03:06

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It should also be noted in this debate that Hogg has played against the Phoenix on at least two occassions as well as spending time with them in pre-seasons.  Not just when Stu Jacobs was there.  He has played against the reserves, he's played Team Wellington in front of the Phoenix coaching staff,

Didn't he play for Hawkes Bay under Gould as well?  Or is Gould influenced by Ricki so much he won't select him?

Perhaps there is a chance that it's not a conspiracy but maybe it could just be they have watched him repeatedly and don't think he has an A-League level ability or temperament. 

How's my driving? - Whine here

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