And Ill never donate blood again they only give you biscuits 
not cash or a playstation!
not cash or a playstation!
Find your happy place Loz...
Anyway, what can we do, if anything, to help keep TW afloat?
Two options I can see: Pushing companies hard to give the team sponsorship, or the donation idea of a page or two back.
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So what time is the big conference call scheuled for today?
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You have to be careful not to lay blame on auckland and waitakere though.
Fact is,every other club overspent. Thats the first blame,the clubs themselves.
The second is NZF,in its allocation of the CWC,which almost forced the hands of other clubs to have to overspend to remain competitive in the league.
There is no way you can blame the big 2 clubs for spending money that they earnt,within their means,unlike the rest of the competition
I'm not blaming them so much as cheekily proposing that they should proactively make themselves part of the solution.
By the way, I'm not sure that TW have overspent - yet. That's the problem, they can't secure funding for the upcoming season beyond a certain point.
And SiNZ, you're dead right about the parallels with the Premier League/UEFA Champions League where the rich systematically get richer and competitiveness is reduced. There are plenty of writers in the UK, such as David Conn, who have been advocating for change. In particular, the formula for distributing television revenues in both those competitions is about as stupid as the one we use to distribute CWC prize money.
You can say what you like about American sports but by and large they distribute revenues evenly across franchises and they have very competitive leagues.
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I'd think the solution lies somewhere within the US system. Some points to remember with the Us systems though:
The teams are mainly privately owned.
The teams actually own the leagues they compete in.
They operate to salary caps and the law allows them to do that.
In the NFL case (at least they used to) the salary cap was linked to the amount of TV revenue they received - the equally shared income was the salary cap).
They operate a draft for new players.
Almost without exception they play in large stadiums that are sold out every week.
All of these little matters help make their leagues a success but there are many lower tier semipro/pro leagues that might be a better comparison for us.
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I'd sponsor them if i had the dosh in the company.
i read somewhere it cost 400-500k to keep a NZFC club going per season, so why not get a $100 donation from every YF member and we buy a club. like those brits did. surely we all could give over 100 bucks a year each.
i read somewhere it cost 400-500k to keep a NZFC club going per season, so why not get a $100 donation from every YF member and we buy a club. like those brits did. surely we all could give over 100 bucks a year each.
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From what ive heard it takes a lot more than that to run an NZFC team. From what I gather Waikato FC's budget for the season is between 800-900K - this does cover everything but it is a hell of a lot of money to be putting into the franchise. I would like to know where all the money goes??? The players get peanuts - 100-200 bucks a week is about right i think.... so from an estimation it will cost between 60-70K for player wages, the same for travel and lets say 40K for the coach = 180K tops.... then you add in the hiring of the field - ill be generous and throw in 40K for that and it still only reaches 220K? where is the extra 600K going towards?
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admin staff and coaches, physios etc would take some of that extra.
then you'd have an advertising budget - that costs a bit of money
so do we need to put in $200 each
Christo2008-10-14 13:33:36
then you'd have an advertising budget - that costs a bit of money
so do we need to put in $200 each
Christo2008-10-14 13:33:36
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"Hmm, let's see. What if we we stop playing at that huge empty stadium and play at a club ground instead, and we cut down how much dosh we throw at the players, that should save us a bit of cash"
Genius, absolute genius. Must have taken them ages to work that out 
Jag2008-10-14 14:46:29 Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Anyone know if waikato has officially dropped out? or are they still in the process of rescuing themselves?
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how can the be "rescuing" themselves - the very term indicates some has come to their aid, should it be more along the lines of "making changes" - cutbacks even.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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Why do everybody have to play in huge stadiums
Because NZF say you have to
I know YHM are now playing at Memorial Park
Better than playing FMG stadium That must be saving heaps
Because NZF say you have to
I know YHM are now playing at Memorial Park
Better than playing FMG stadium That must be saving heaps
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i reckon that hawkes bays park island is one of the best venues in the league. not biast or anything.. what you think if youve been there/played there before
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has it got anything to do with the facilities at the grounds? ie the bigger grounds may be better equiped for assessing/dealing with injured players, fancier changing rooms etc.
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Not to sure but ive played at FMG stadium and there facilities aren't much different to park island. except for more changing rooms. and also bit more space about 1metre either side or so.
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has it got anything to do with the facilities at the grounds? ie the bigger grounds may be better equiped for assessing/dealing with injured players, fancier changing rooms etc.
Where's Frankie Mac when you need him eh?
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Bay army...bay army....creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep hahaha.
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Anyway, what can we do, if anything, to help keep TW afloat?
Two options I can see: Pushing companies hard to give the team sponsorship, or the donation idea of a page or two back.
Do we know how much the shortfall is?
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All this talk about money brings back thoughts of the 90s.
One problem I think NZ has always had is average players who think the world of themselves, being pirates (read journeymen) to many of the winter and summer clubs in NZ. I can think of about 30 from the last 13 years straight off the top of my head and only one of them has ever worn the silver fern at senior level.
Please, do name them...
Oh come on, think about it. If you are talking Waikato football, then Mark Cossey stands out as a prime example. And he played a game or two (no more) for the AWs.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.
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every place is a happy place....
Did anyone else hear NZFs CO sayon Dewhursts WOF that he,d.happily accept a lower standard of football....really...? this from a league with Waitak in it....that'll pull the crowds..
NZF advancing the worlds most popular game !
Competance you can sniff...!
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See that waikato are playing at Ngaruawahia. Does that fit the criteria ?So why don't TW play at Crawford Green - would save a lot of money ?NZF needs to decide whether it is going to enforce criteria across the board or only when it suits them. Still think that we are not far from a return to a club based league.
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Still think that we are not far from a return to a club based league.
That would be a disaster.
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Why ?
Auckland City = Central
waitakere = Waitakere City
Hawkes Bay = NCR
Manawatu = Manawatu
Half the current sides are club sides anyway ; why not go the whole hog ?
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Because if you revert to many of those clubs you will disenfrachise other supporters. Miramar regularly played in front of 200 because of city rivalries as opposed to Team Wellington having closer to a 1000 average.
Central and Waitakere (not that Waitak have any supporters) would be the same, as would Canterbury and Otago. As you say HBU and NCR are pretty close anyway and wouldn't see a difference, not sure on the general Manawatu dynamic.
There is also a problem now with some Winter clubs spending a ridiculous amount of money (soem of it at the expense of the clubs other players) for amateur competitions, a National League campaign would only make this worse.
Hard News2008-10-14 21:21:03
Central and Waitakere (not that Waitak have any supporters) would be the same, as would Canterbury and Otago. As you say HBU and NCR are pretty close anyway and wouldn't see a difference, not sure on the general Manawatu dynamic.
There is also a problem now with some Winter clubs spending a ridiculous amount of money (soem of it at the expense of the clubs other players) for amateur competitions, a National League campaign would only make this worse.
Hard News2008-10-14 21:21:03
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It was costing Waikato FC $50k a year to play at Waikato Stadium. Our junior club and various other football people tried several times to get big groups down but people got p'd off with the Red Badge nazis taking their lollies off them at the gate. I know a few that didn't go back a second time because of stupid stuff like that. Not die hard fans, but die hards are going to go no matter what. It's the mum's and dads of the kids that play every weekend that are goin to make a difference. Last season they were lucky to get 200, and one week we were nearly 100 of them!
So this year they were going to relocate to Resthills park (one I know well from softball days). It would be a great venue, a nice embankment to sit on, a bar in the clubrooms, a pub down the road if you want something bigger, good parking, and only a couple of clashes with softball tournaments when home games would be moved to Ngaruawahia. The softball association, while not rolling in money by any stretch, are mortgage free there now, so I expect any fees to play there would be nominal. A better location than Narras, in my opinion, and without the ties to a particular club that get people worked up (although I can see that playing at Ngaruawahia it is more aligned to the sport we love)
What to do? Just hope we get a team to play in the comp at this stage.
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But the 200 were probably more passionate and would put their hands in their pockets much deeper than the 1000 dispassionate ? Probably the best solution is for each franchise to find its own solution rather than setting criteria and then ignoring it (which is my major issue ) .Living in Auckland I very much see ACFC as Central and vice versa (where do they play , who runs and funds them , etc) and the same with Waitakere Utd and Waitakere City.
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But the 200 were probably more passionate and would put their hands in their pockets much deeper than the 1000 dispassionate ?
But how does that grow the game ? You want as many people as possible following the league and football in this country. To suddenly remove 50-70% of the National League spectators is a huge step backwards, and a group of people you may never get back as football fans.
The NZFC is the right solution, it just needs to be run by the right people with the right belief and backing and I'm not sure the current NZFc staff are those people.
I know tons of people who go to Team Wellington games that would never have gone to a Miramar game (or for that matter Wests or any other winter club based side). Likewise, people wouldn't go to Centennial or Porirua Park in the numbers they do Newtown.
Despite some winter clubs using it Newtown feels like a a club neutral venue which helps people buy in to the side a lot more as well (sorry, a bit of a tangent there).
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But the 200 were probably more passionate and would put their hands in their pockets much deeper than the 1000 dispassionate ?
But how does that grow the game ? You want as many people as possible following the league and football in this country. To suddenly remove 50-70% of the National League spectators is a huge step backwards, and a group of people you may never get back as football fans.
The NZFC is the right solution, it just needs to be run by the right people with the right belief and backing and I'm not sure the current NZFc staff are those people.
I know tons of people who go to Team Wellington games that would never have gone to a Miramar game (or for that matter Wests or any other winter club based side). Likewise, people wouldn't go to Centennial or Porirua Park in the numbers they do Newtown.
Despite some winter clubs using it Newtown feels like a a club neutral venue which helps people buy in to the side a lot more as well (sorry, a bit of a tangent there).
Reading on the Hawkes Bay United website, they have just adopted a new constitution that allows all Hawkes Bay clubs to become member clubs of the franchise, not just Napier CR. Sound familiar? Yep, just like the TW set up. Can only be a good thing for the franchise.
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But the 200 were probably more passionate and would put their hands in their pockets much deeper than the 1000 dispassionate ?
If the 200 are part of the 1000 your argument falls apart.
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Good news if Waikato stay afloat...But can anyone tell me what ever happened to MUIR PK ?
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Muir Park was sold in the early 90's I think to a Church. Hamilton AFC received a significant amount of money which got used to fund Waikato United so the money has probably disappeared .
Was a great venue but a bit scuffy later on.
As far as my previous statements go I still believe that the 200 at Miramar would probably put their hands in their pocket to keep their club going , but would not put their hands in their pockets as part of the 1000 to keep a franchise (different to a club) going ?
To be clear , I am a TW supporter in Auckland , but believe that the NZFC has always been based on shonky principles - ie , criteria being ignored when it suits NZ Football . The ground criteria was one that appeared to eliminate various clubs yet we had waitakere playing at a ground with no grandstand for a couple of seasons (fixed now) and now have Waikato playing at a ground with minimal facilities.
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The whole point is that the league is supposed to have broader appeal than the 200 or so die hards (and has done to some extent hence the rise inc rowds). The club model failed, there is nothing to be gained going back there. The game needs to move on and get this right instead of going backwards
and if the 200 as you call them are having to put their hands in their pockets to keep the club alive then it's not working
james dean2008-10-15 09:47:05Normo's coming home
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Reading on the Hawkes Bay United website, they have just adopted a new constitution that allows all Hawkes Bay clubs to become member clubs of the franchise, not just Napier CR. Sound familiar? Yep, just like the TW set up. Can only be a good thing for the franchise.
Don't know all the off-field ins and outs, and don't pretend to, but isn't HBU's situation different? They were already up and running and appear (to me) to be farly successful off the park. So new member clubs would be buying into a reasonably stable and proven operation, as opposed to TW which (I think) relied on the member clubs to get the whole thing going in the 1st place.
I agree with the member clubs idea though, and the franchise idea, rather than a club based National League. Quite prepared to be told that my theories are bullsh*t, as I said I don't pretend to be an expert on all the NZFC behind the scenes stuff.
Jag2008-10-15 09:51:07Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Just heard that all of the Auckland lads that have signed for Waikato have been axed and they are going with Waikato based players only. Rumour has it that wages have been slashed to zero and they have got rid of Fallon and his income. If players want to travel they pay there own way to training. They have also appointed a coach who is doing it for free!
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I think, given their finances and the fact that Fallon was unlikely to be doing it for nothing, he had to go. Be interesting to see how they go
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Yeh it will be interesting - anyone heard of Wayne Bates?
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