WPFC to O-League and OFC in general

Ted, this is simple, please tell me are Cardiff an English club, yes or no? 

Cough cough.

Toronto FC (MLS) are not Toronto Croatia (CSL champions), they are different clubs. It's like comparing Nix (A-league) to the TW (NZFC).

Kingz/Knights did not know that Australia was going to AFC at the time, When they first started, Australia was in OFC. As aussienixfan said, it all started with Australia switching to AFC and that Phoenix was the OFC team left in the A-league.

We are talking about different confederation. Since the seven australian clubs are now not eligible for the OFC club championship/O-League but NZ Knights/Wellington Phoenix were still the eligible A-League club left. It was all thought of such that the NZFC had a clause in their NZFC contracts about Wellington Phoenix being in a future O-league. They have know that for an very long time and and have signed the contract. So really they are disputing their signed contract as well.

Potentially they could lose their NZFC licence for break an agreement in publicly voicing their opinion after signing. NZFC clubs knew this when they resigned after the first NZFC review. that it was going to come to this stage but didn't do anything until they realise the day it going to go happen after the OZ switch to AFC and Batters comments before CWC06.

But of course that would not help anyone so I applause NZF of resisting such actions and looking a way for OFC and NZ in this affair.

The writing was on the wall long ago. Except that things will be different soon.AllWhitebelievr2008-03-09 17:07:26

It has to be based on location for confederation because the
A-League competition includes clubs from the two different confederation.

Wellington is located in OFC and play half the games in OFC as well as being a sub-licencee to NZF for the A-league licence invite. They belong to NZF, and have been rejected by the AFC for the ACL. All indicates are they are more OFC than AFC. The only argument base is that you have is that they play in an AFC league called the A-League. But every of the other points towards OFC and not AFC.

They have to be in one confederation or the other and that is what is determined by FIFA at this moment of time. how they be contesting in the O-league is up to FIFA to say whether that WP is OFC or AFC club. And then OFC has to consider entry avenue to O-league competition if they are OFC club or AFC are told to reconsider WP as AFC club if that falls though. If has to be one or the other, and knowing FIFA, they would be happy to not upset AFC and to agree with OFC. It is a matter of course really.

Also the cost to switch to AFC will be impossible to finanical even with Spac funding and with double the revenue for the next 10 years.

Because a NZ team is in Aussie league, does not mean they are Aussie team.. They are a NZ team is not Aussie team. If you ask the other A-League Clubs whether the Wellington Phoenix are Australian or New Zealand club, they will say that WP is a New Zealand club.AllWhitebelievr2008-03-09 17:37:09

Sorry which facts did i get wrong?
All your talk about lower standard players not wanting to play in CSL are your opinion
and not fact
and yes i know that the PDL teams play home games in canada and away games against american teams in america whats your point?
u were the one trying to be a smart arse name dropping about canadian players you knew
and saying that the only Canadaian clubs palyin in America were theMLS &  USL1 clubs when in FACT they are'nt are they?

aussienixfan, nice to know someone 'gets it'. If FIFA banned European clubs from being involved in the Club World Cup would it mean the Champions League would be a dead duck? The 'o' league could be destroyed by allowing teams from another confederation to play in it. We will have to take our chances I'm afraid and look to get a more professional outfit to the next CWC. PS - It was only a few years ago that Perth Glory were the most 'professional' team in Aus with only 9 full time players! We need a chance to develop our local game to even that level. BillyAuckland2008-03-09 19:05:26

He's right though isn't he Ted ?

Whether I support it or not, I'm pretty sure all I've seen is Tai Nicholas saying it would be unfair to change the rules for the O-League sides this season but nothing has ruled it out for next season.

Next Year

You are aware that makes no sense, aren't you Billy...  nowhere did I make any claims about performance next year.  I merely pointed out what Oceania has said.

You've just said it yourself! unfair to change the rules the O-League is for
Oceania teams, Phoenix do not qualify therefore Mr Nicholas is surely saying Piss off Phoenix!!! 

No, what he said was it is too late to change the conditions for teams already playing in the O-League this season, but he did not comment on what may occur in the future.

That is entirely different to saying it will never happen.

Cant you see that nobody wants the Phoenix Asia doesnt and neither does Oceania
they put themselves in no mans lands why should Oceania bail them out?
wooden spooners forever!!!!

Would it not be better to have the Phoenix representing Oceania at the Club World Championships (assuming of course they win the O League), bringing back money from FIFA, a percentage of which would be invested straight back into NZ Football such as what currently happens with NZFC sides competing at the CWC presently, than to have FIFA completely revoke any Oceania representation at such a tournament, losing the considerable revenue participation at this event brings for NZ Football, because the OFC can not send a team who, in Mr Blatter's eyes, is not professional and/or competitive enough?

See, here I am being civil, merely playing devils advocate as I have made it clear that I don't support the idea of the Phoenix playing in Oceania, but you still have to come across as a blinkered git...

Congrats Phil, those who refer to you as Grey and Miserable do seem to have you pegged.

Yes I know that whether it is Auckland City or Wellington Phoenix going, they will both bring back the same amount of money.

My argument is that Sepp Blatter said if there was not a distinct improvement in the performances by the OFC representative team at the Club World Championship, the OFC would lose its right to have a representative at the tournament.

In my opinion, the OFC have 2 options:

1) Keep sending a semi-professional team who wins the O-League to the Club World Championships and hope that performances by the team improve, risking that performances do not improve and thus losing its place at the CWC, along with the prize money that comes with participating in the competition.

2) Let the Wellington Phoenix participate in the O-League. If they win, let them represent OFC at the Club World Championships. Logic says that a professional team should fare better than a semi-professional team, therefore performances should suffice Sepp Blatter to let the OFC retain its place at the CWC and therefore prize money from the competition will still be brought back by the OFC representative to be invested in the national associations.

Why in this whole debate does everyone just assume that a NZ will win the 0-League. There are 8 or 9 other countries in Oceania who deserve the right to compete for the WCC. I know that we will win it more often than not but as evidenced by last year's final a couple of odd referee decisions and you are looking at Fiji or Solomon's winning the final and going to Japan. Oceania has to get this right not NZF or the Phoenix.

Odd refereeing decisions, from an Oceania ref ?

Never...

To see it in action you should have been at the last Auckland City vs Waitakere O_league game. Both teams would just stand there after the whistle blew to see which way he would point. Was very funny from a neutrals POV but from people with a vested interest it would have been annoying

And until Oceania do get it right, send the strongest team to ensure we don't lose our place at the CWC due to poor performances.

I was at the Under-20 qualifiers last year, quite frankly the officiating was a disgrace.

Losing our place at the CWC is something not under our control. What does "improved performance" mean - to whose standards and what is acceptable? The final was a complete mismatch with Milan very comfortably beating Boca Juniors. FIFA will decide whether we like it or not on their own terms - nothing to do with performance.

That was a general comment to all Phoenix fans not a response to your recent posts
and do you honestly think i give sh*t what a load of wannabe aussies think about me ?

sigh HN is right, every once and a while u look like you could just argue normally, then you come up with this garbage... cut the crap

wooden spooners forever was low (wtf happens when we come.. say.. 6,5,4th in the league? or higher?) but then wannabe aussies is too far. all phoenix fans who post on this site share a common interest in promoting NZ football in a way the mediocre NZFC could never achieve.
all your anti-phoenix crap just makes u sound sour

Yep, hardly grey and miserable. The man gets to sporting events all around the counrty and is always willing to give those in the wrong a bit of a hurry up.

Thats cause he spends all his time at the Dogs Bollix....

That is definitely a confession.

Teams based in Canada, plays half their games in Canada and most of their squad are Canadians means that they are an Canadian side. Only an idiot would dare to say otherwise.

The application proves the same for the Wellington Phoenix, who is an New Zealand club.

Every point that you have made out has been countered and covered substantially by many of the posters here. What I have pointed out was more than enough even for those posters who do support WP in the O-league. I have expanded and explore the points in more than sufficient depth.

Yet you have chosen either

1.) Ignore the points and misrepresent these points.
2.) Misunderstand the points and miscounter the points
3.) Misunderstand the points and restated your original but weak points again.

Either way, you have nothing new to offer but stupidity. Most posters would have at least seen that I have placed more than enough points of support that adds to the Phoenix inclusion rather than not including them.

But as it has been said before . . .

We know what competition that they are administrated by . . . but;

Is Toronto FC a US team?
Is Cardiff City a English team?
Is Wellington Phoenix a Australian team?

The answer to those questions is a resounding NO.

Moving on. . .

What countries are these team based in? It is simple geography.

Answer is Canada, Wales, NZ.

Next. . .

What confederation does these countries belong to?

Answer is CONCACAF, UEFA, OFC.

What confederation does these teams play in?

Answer is CONCACAF (Tornoto & other US cities), UEFA (Cardiff & other English cities), OFC (Wellington) & AFC (other Australian cities).

Spot the difference.

As you see, WP plays in both AFC and OFC, however they are based in Wellington which is in OFC and so are consider a NZ team and a OFC club. WP DOES NOT HAVE VOTING RIGHTS IN THE FFA because they are not an Australian club. WP have the A-League sub-licence from NZF. NZF are the A-League licence holders. The FFA have gave NZF the licence and doing so invited NZF to provide them a NZ club to play in the A-League. This differs from the original NZ Knight contract in which NZF (/NZS) had no contractual relationship with neither the NZ Knight nor the FFA.

WP are contracted to the NZF not FFA and the NZF are contracted to the FFA to provide them a suitable team. This team has to follow the FFA administrative conditions of the A-League as stipated in their NZF contract.

To say that WP is an Australian club and not NZ club is foolhardy. Where as for the Football Kings and NZ Knight, they have slightly stronger grounds to be called Australian clubs rather than a NZ one. The new A-league licence to NZF is security and establishes WP even more as a NZ club which of course means they are an OFC club.

Enough said.

I'm sorry but this assertion that because he travels to every Auckland City match makes him the bestest fan in New Zealand is bollocks.  Good on him for the loyalty but it all gets a little 'look at me, look at me' when other people start polishing his knob for it.

I'm sure plenty of other people 'could' do that, but have families, or jobs and other commitments so are unable to do the same.

Except that I agree with his position on this and his remarks about wooden spooners is directed at all of the Phoenix fan base not those he perceives to be wrong.

No one's saying he is the best fan but he is loyal when it comes to any of the teams he supports.

He's not like Sonny Shaw is he?

I'm not sure this whole thread is not missing what Blatter might be on about. Is Oceania as a confederation at risk? Are we in a false position at the moment qualifing virtually directly to CWC and World Cups and is Oceania really just to small and lightweight regardless of who represents us?

Personally I can't see how they can justify Oceania's existance. 

While it gives us some great advantages currently, in the grand sceme of things it just doesn't strike me as viable at all.

Hard to explain how Oceanias existence is justified.

Unusually on some of the high powered FIFA committees, we have more Oceania members on them than other high powered federations. In terms of our own backyard, while NZ is the 'powerhouse' of football' on the pitch (for lack of a better definition), the power in terms of politics definitely comes from the islands and whenever voting time pops up on anything the islands block vote usually against NZ.

The islands would be the first to fight an abolition of Oceania because their power goes and under AFC, they would have a far reduced voice and veto power meaning they would have to attempt to pander or get into bed with their buddies NZ to block vote against the Asians in the AFC which NZ would never agree to because its not in our interests to see our island friends get stronger.

I think alot of NZFs thinking would fit in better in Asia, its just that direct qualification to tournaments stops them from jumping I would suggest. So you then have a situation where you trade off the islands block voting against you for direct entry to tournaments.

Politics, thats why Oceania exists....
Agent 472008-03-11 11:38:40

Yes, FIFA politics would stop this part of the world agreeing to it.

Maybe FIFA need to just make an edict... although it depends how much Sepp needs the Oceania vote to get his way.

There is somewhat of a mild hypocrisy in OFC on this...

They were quick to tell NZF to get US1 into line over the Northern League in the paper yesterday (queue Rex Dawkins here) because it denies players better football and draws the game into disrepute but wont allow the same of WP into the O League??

Oh and I haven't made up my mind either way on whether they should be allowed to join in or not. There is merit to it, but also something not right about it as well, just to pin my colours to the mast.
Agent 472008-03-11 12:07:25

Inferior to ted... superb.  Please, don't stop Billy, it's hilarious.

I SO want my life to revolve around being an internet warrior and head of the 'Grey and Miserables'.

The one thing I will give him credit for is that (apart from once) he doesn't feel the need to sing his own praises about this level of support.   You and your idolisation of him however verges on the disturbing... BillyAuckland, king of the knob polishers.

I can respect Phil for his support of his teams. It his cash and he is entitled to spend it how he chooses. In some respects, I'd love to do the same but I have other things in my life so my prioriies are different to his I would suspect. I also think that this is a little strange to NZers where as in England, its quite common to go on the road to support your team every weekend to all corners of the country. Thats the props out of the way

I found this in another topic "Oceania Out" Posted: 21 Dec 2007 at 8:55pm by Happyted.

Now not to take it out of context, he was posting this in support of why NZFC teams should be the only ones in O League

" you really are missing the whole point
ITS NOT JUST ABOUT THE F&*%IN MONEY!!!!
its about rewarding teams for high achievement develop football in this country
(something that Phoenix supporters are always claiming there team is doin) so that supporters and club members can take pride in there team and aspire to compete in top tournaments
how are clubs and players going to raise the standard on and off the field if they dont get exposed to the highest level possible"

Does this very same quote not apply to the WP? You could pretty much apply it any sports team excluded from competitions.