WPFC to O-League and OFC in general

So are you now suggesting that Oceania just flag the O-League all together and send the Nix to the CWC?

terminator_x2008-03-14 08:41:10

Interesting and points well taken, but how does this help in NZFC players gaining experience at a higher level? Are you suggesting that the NZFC just becomes a feeder league to the Phoenix or other A-League clubs? Because that there is an interesting debate and one which i would strongly oppose.

I see the development of the NZFC as a separate issue for two reasons:

The problem with trainspotters is that they have no sense of practicality!

So then whats your excuse?

TBH.

I think a Oceania Premier League (OPL) needs to be developed over the top of the O-league. OFC needs to act more like a one country administration and the FIFA members more like regional areas.

I think that since OFC has only 11 FIFA members, as a collective we should be able to potentially create the one fully professional league in oceania that would be very marketable for international broadcasting money rights and consequently lift the game for all the OFC members even for those whose hasn't got an OPL club but have at least their own domestic league.

It should be whatever top clubs capable to taking the football across the OFC on a home and away basis as a TV marketing package. However having the TV marketing package that appeals to the international football world is the main basis of the financial viability of the system as it is to the EPL, SeriesA adn La liga etc.

It seems that more than likely that no one OFC country will have fully conducted professional league that is capable of setting the international football world on fire. hence the problem to sell a product outside the OFC or outside of any domestic league in OFC.

If any country that has the population and the capacity to run a fully professional league it would be likely NZ but even then it would have problems being 4 million and football not being the number one sport.

Also NZ has an very small population but OFC being the smallest confederation by population can act like a county of itself.

O-league is not up to standard. There are other club teams in the OFC capable of beating some of these champion teams of other countries as well as some champion teams have no money to travel away from home There is a limit to the numbers places in the O-league because we are amateurs.

Instead, have an international league of about (when possible) up to 18 of the top clubs in OFC playing each other. Initially it would be the clubs that are able to afford the initial set-up and after 5 years, there should be some settling down period getting roughly the best club teams in the OFC playing each other but it means clubs are able to be at least competitive on the field to climb the ladder in OFC and not just their own countries. This can become the level 1 of the OFC football pyramid because it would eventually become the only fully professional league in OFC.

The 2nd level O-league with an extended season of the champions of those domestic leagues at the end of the season. A playoff similar to the old O-league format to determine the top three clubs to be promoted in this league replacing the bottom three clubs of the Oceania Premier league.

Over time the best clubs in Oceania will complete each other.

The money that is given goes straight to the OFC for even distribution among the FIFA members. ie money from TV broadcasting rights, OPL league sponsorship, etc.

OFC would then pay for the following fixed expenses for OPL functionality;
1.) Domestic league development for all 11 FIFA association members. So the other top domestic clubs can be competitive enough to challenge the OPL clubs and lowers the gap between the leagues. Includes cost for O-league costs.
2.) Traveling expenses for the OPL club covering cost of the traveling for matches.
3.) Salary Cap of OPL players.

And then the OPL clubs can get money from team kit sponsors, businesses sponsors and gate-taking for;
1.) Administration expenses like coaching, back-room staff and staff admin.
2.) Marquee players.
3.) Youth team development.
4.) Ground and Stadium Development. etc.

Possible Benefits;

1.) Very Marketable International TV coverage package.
2.) Best OFC clubs are playing.
3.) Best players in the Oceania are in a professional environment.
4.) OFC has more hands on professional development with players and clubs therefore has ensuring CWC entry.
5.) Allows second tier teams to be competitive with promotion-regulation process from their domestic league.

Possible Negatives;

TV money is not enough or the networks are not interested.
Sponsors are not satisfied with the arrangements.
Travel cost are not cover well.
Money is not enough to secure full-time player salary.
OFC administration is not organized.

OFC football pyramid comprise of
level 1 : OPL
level 2 : O-league (month end of season, the winners of the domestic league (level 3) are to determine to find the top three clubs)
level 3 : National domestic league (e.g. NZFC)
Level 4 : Other leagues etc (e.g. Central league etc)

Oceania cup of the FA cup format can be introduced for clubs from level 3 and upwards.

Within the OFC, it is more applicable for the OFC to create a competition to enhance the region's strength.

For me I could envisage something like the following 18 teams for the inaugural season;

[Using the OFC Nations Cup Table placing]

NZ (four club teams)
New Caledonia (three club teams)
Fiji (two club teams)
Vanuatu (two club teams)

And one team from the following;

American Samoa
Cook Islands
Papua New Guinea
Samoa
Solomon Islands
Tahiti
Tonga

Potentially the league would eventually loopsided with teams from the same country and other countries not having a club team in the laegue but every year a national club champion participates in the level 2 : O-league to playoff for the top 3 to be automatically promoted into the next season league. There's always a decent chance for a weak country to place a strong club team, that has largely draws strengths in their national associations teams as well. (stacking might happen, but we don't mind if it lifts the other clubs standard higher or their association team). OFC just becomes stronger over time.

If something liked this comes into being then the Wellington Phoenix would have a poorer case and I for one would advocate a OPL team over a NZ A-league team because then we would have a professional setting across the OFC clubs at a better football level and would not be embarrassed at the CWC.

Just get rid of Oceania and merge the lot into Asia.

Oceania is a rinky-dink Federation that only exists because of a historical quirk.

It's a boil on the arsehole of world football that needs to be lanced.

I Second That!

 

Apart from NZ, and the American / French outposts (A. Samoa, Tahiti, New Caledonia, Guam), we are dealing with basically third world countries with no money.

Plus huge distances, poor transport links - both internally and between countries. Finally, the overall  population is tiny.

I doubt FIFA would pour money into this area to support a league

At this stage Oceania is an easy way for NZ to get into the world cup and olympics - we should leave it that way.

"At this stage Oceania is an easy way for football in this country to remain in the dark ages, for the All Whites to play one meaningful home football match every four years and international football to remain totally unmarketable, completely without profile and devoid of any public interest."

It's not a bad argument to get embroiled in though Marius. I'd like to think the majority of people including myself would agree with you.

The problem is that AFC knows that if NZ joins then FIFA expects them to take the pacific island nations as well, which is not going to happen. Australia had been in the AFC before so it is not new to them to take them in.

They may take NZ but we don't have the money to achieve such an adventure. The cost simply goes through the roof. I don't think we should panic and jump over the other side.

i like to see the FIFA rankings after the Oceania nation cup final, confederation cup finals (both are multiplier of 3.0) and then the end of the WC qualifiers just before the playoffs to see how far we can go up the FIFA rankings.

Australia entered the WC 2006 as ranked number 42nd and after the WC achieved 33rd ranking, close to their highest of 31st. The highest we got was 47 after the 2002 oceania nation cup finals with the 1-0 win against Australia and we stayed top 80s until october 2003.

We need to have a consistent stay in the top 80 to let our players have UK work permits.

If we top OFC, the question is do we stay under 80? If so, then it is worth us staying in OFC. Because that is all the FIFA ranking points means to us really.

If topping OFC without Australia doesn't help us to stay above 80th place, then we should move to AFC.

In the meanwhile, when we don't have under 80th placing, then we should just focus on national team development by improving the domestic league and look for grassroots development and provide a player route though the MLS and A-League unless the player has 3 generation ancestory or dual citizenship.
AllWhitebelievr2008-03-13 22:47:53

Agree with Marius...and thats where the Phoenix fit as well...

Why didnt Phoenix fans support local footy before last season? Is there a reason in Wellington for this? Interested in your thoughts...are most not actually historically football fans?

Jag2008-03-14 14:26:09

Considering Team Wellington have generally had better crowds than both Auckland City and Waitakere it would seem many of them were already here....

...Now, how about you explain why the Kingz and Knights both had 9000 crowds at points but then 550 crowds ?  Aucklanders not Football fans or so busy jumping on bandwagons they forgot to get along ?

To me, football fans support football.... particularly when it is New Zealanders playing (so we'll exclude most of the Knights).  What I want to know is, where are the people that made the 8000 discrepancy between the Auckland NZFC crowds and the Kingz and Knights peaks ?

They didn't have a philosophical problem with "Australian sides", but they appear to have one with the NZFC.  As for your assertion that the Auckland public has that attitude (rather than a small minority) why is it that most of the Auckland City supporters I know were at every Kingz and Knights game ?  Even when i was there the other week, most of the crowd I recognised from the smallest of the Kingz and Knights crowds.

Even your vocal support is lead by the leaders of the Kingz and Knights vocal support, your supporters club founder attended pretty much every Kingz and Knights game.

It seems to me there is a very small minority that appear on here giving the impression that they speak for all Auckland City fans in an Anti-Phoenix stance.  Yet we have Daikiwi, buffon, PROAK and others on here who seem to prove to me it is a minority view.




Hard News2008-03-14 15:17:02

Well done Uli! The idea that there are 8,000 football fans in Auckland (the difference between the Phoenix average and the Kingz/Knights average) who "disagree with the philosophical concept of a Kiwi team playing in an Aussie comp" actually made me laugh out loud.

Genius.

and what, the stands at Croatian society have been packed this year???? Crickey there are 4-5 times the amount in Manawatu and they sit how many places below you? You couldn't give a ticket away to an ACFC game this year even if you included the free steak sandwich at half time (which are actually bloody sharp)

Your attitude is typical of the Central/Auckland City mentality. 'We're number 1 so that means what you say/think is worth f**k all" If you pulled your heads out of your own ass for a second and stopped telling everyone how important/good you feel you are, then you might find that people will tell you how good you are on your own merits, but thats not an Auckland problem isolated to football now is it...

Kiwitea street and more specifically "Central/Auckland City" is the only ground my wife will never go to. Why? Because not only are the fans abusive (on occasions) she saw people lined up along the narrow side of the boardings closest to the road spitting on opponents. Thats supporting local football?

Yeah Cental/Auckland City supporters are just a model of how to support a club and as Jag said, you used the broad generalisation first....
Agent 472008-03-14 20:03:51

This is a huge generalisation.....

Having lived in both Auckland and Wellington, it seems simple to me.

Aucklanders don't support their team(s) as,they don't see the link between their suburb and the greater Auckland  area.

Aucklanders live in a collection of villages, but think they live are a huge international city of great importance.

Wellingtonians live in a medium sized town and are quite happy with that, there is generally no pretense to be anything else.

Aucklanders also don't like to travel across town - takes too long - is too far - where do I park

To be honest, the Phoenix has peaked my interest in the NZFC even more, especially with Stu Jacobs (when he was assistant manager at the 'Nix) managing Team Wellington. Watching the games, trying to pick out who could make the cut in the A League, is another reason to enjoy the matches. The Phoenix players and management are always down at Newtown Park watching Team Wellington. It's a great competition, one I would love to play in one day.

I have to say that had it not been for the Kingz i probably wouldn't of become a City fan.  

See, this is the classic example of the Gray and Miserables.  Hostie and Teddy spend an amount of time fixating on Phoenix crowds...'ha ha look at the crowds drop, fans running away, they're not real fans like us' and post on the City board enjoying it.  Full of how the romance has gone, wallowing in the idea that the Phoenix might fail (because, let's face it, how many turn-up for a game at the stadium here will impact on Auckland crowds)

Then of course we get our second biggest crowd for the last home game so it's now 'longer term'.  Reminds me of all the disenfranchised fans of the old NSL in Australia who gave the A-League 1 year tops, then 2 years max, then gone by the third season.  Now they are calling it 5.

The blinkered gray and miserables (all 3 of them) will maintain this party line through hell and high-water and believe they represent the views of everyone when posts like the one from Buffon II above prove that they don't even have the pulse of the Auckland City fan base let alone the general football population.

Good luck lads, but your blinkered views just underline your own increasing irrelevance...
Baiter2008-03-14 22:44:29

Oh Wellington! Is wonderful!