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Chris Payne Disappreciation Society

317 replies · 30,486 views
about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Weird that this thread turned to a discussion on planes!

I second Ahmad's question. I hear they didn't replay the goal on the big screen, did you guys figure at the time we'd be cheated? (Good on you for going over and drowning at the miserly number of Sydney supporters last night, by the way!)
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Don't think it was intentional at all, he lunged with his leg up and his head stretched forward, and just missed the ball with both.
 
The ball hit his trailling arm. Honestly, there is no proof to suggest it was deliberate in the way it happened. I think its sour grapes.
 
Had it been Greeny and we scored we would of celebrated, claimed it and said had we won the game, that that's football, and we'd be right it is.
 
The young fella had a great game.
 
It was a good season, but we deserved to lose so lets try to do it gracefully.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
But, the club we had beaten would have every right to call Greeny a cheating cock.
You know we belong together...

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
martinb wrote:
ahmad wrote:
loyalgunner wrote:
They can suspend you for diving to win a penalty if it results in you winning the game, but this is different.  I doubt anything will happen.  That miserable son of a bitch.

How is scoring directly off your arm different from diving to win a penalty?


how about one for Brosque? his effort in the first half was certainly that and his prior record shows it to be a tactic of his.


You have to win the penalty and it has to be a match-winner to count I believe.  So doesn't apply for last night.

The Palmy game though...

"Had it been Greeny and we scored we would of celebrated, claimed it and said had we won the game, that that's football, and we'd be right it is."

You may've had that attitude.  I'd have been disappointed and things like that have happened in the past involving teams I support and I was disappointed then as well.
loyalgunner2010-03-14 21:21:24
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ahmad wrote:
Question: To those at the game last night - was it obvious to you in the crowd behind the goal? Or were you all too pissed?


I didn't see it in real time from behind goal but as soon as every surrounding Phoenix player sprinted up to the ref tapping their arms, and then they didn't show replays of the goal in the stadium as they did for the other goals... It was obvious what had happened.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What was the reaction/feeling within the YF area after that? Can you talk us through it a bit?

I mean sure you would have been devastated like we were at home, but we had the benefit of a dozen replays to throw sh*t at the TV over.

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=Oska]But, the club we had beaten would have every right to call Greeny a cheating cock.[/QUOTE
 
Henry's was deliberate this one, no chance it was deliberate (opinions to the contrary are laced with emotion and not evidence). Watch the replay, look at how he attempts to get the ball with both his head and foot.
 
The ref got it worng... it was not deliberate, therefor he didn't cheat. He didn't dive to gain a peanalty or deliberately fell someone in a goal scoring position. He went for the ball, missed it and it struck his hand.
 
The ref's a twat with his call of unintentional handball and letting in stand, but other than that, its part of the game.
 
If we want to complain, complain that there are no video referrals, otherwise give the guy a break for reacting the same way anyone else would have done.
 
Lets changed the forum headline to we got beat so lets bitch about it like children and make villians out of the opposition even though we'd done the same in his position. Or if you prefer a little shorter... Poor Losers.
 
It was a great season and we should all be proud and lose with dignity... not this.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
^^Nice post TouchMe.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ahmad wrote:
What was the reaction/feeling within the YF area after that? Can you talk us through it a bit?

I mean sure you would have been devastated like we were at home, but we had the benefit of a dozen replays to throw sh*t at the TV over.


Only a few people yelling out handball... Most of us were just f**ked off we conceeded again... Then the texts starting coming in from home and everyone knew.

Got a text from a friend in the cove:

"Thierry Henry just scored for Sydney!"
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
They have a video referral system at the hockey WC where each team gets a single appeal per game to a video ref if there is a contentious goalmouth decision. NZ used it against Sth Korea when they had a goal disallowed for hand ball.
 
I don't know if Peter Green's reported comment ("I saw it but it wasn't deliberate") is true or not, but it would be interesting to know what a video ref would've made of the Payne incident. Almost certainly the goal would've been disallowed on appeal I imagine.
 
I can think of at least three other incidents this season that were highly controversial, two involving keepers putting the ball into their own net under heavy pressure from opposition players (both goals given) and a Mitch Nicholls shot which was clearly at least two feet over the goal line but was not given. Oh, and let's not forget that bizarre Aloisi goal against Perth when the ball burst through the net, whereupon the ref initially gave a goal kick. In that case it was alleged by Perth that the ref secretly got the word from 'upstairs' he'd made a massive cockup allowing him to quickly change his decision and award the goal.
 
Maybe the hockey system has some merit...?
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
StopOut wrote:
They have a video referral system at the hockey WC where each team gets a single appeal per game to a video ref if there is a contentious goalmouth decision. NZ used it against Sth Korea when they had a goal disallowed for hand ball.
�

I don't know if Peter Green's reported comment ("I saw it but it wasn't deliberate") is true or not, but it would be interesting to know what a video ref would've made of the Payne incident. Almost certainly�the goal would've been disallowed on appeal�I imagine.

�

I can think of at least three other incidents this season that were highly controversial, two involving keepers putting the ball into their own net under heavy pressure from opposition players (both goals given) and a Mitch Nicholls shot which was clearly at least two feet over the goal line but was not given. Oh, and let's not forget that bizarre Aloisi goal against Perth when the ball burst through the net, whereupon the ref initially gave a goal kick. In that case it was alleged by Perth that the ref secretly got the word from 'upstairs' he'd made a massive cockup allowing him to quickly change his decision and award the goal.

�

Maybe�the hockey�system has some merit...?

I understand everything you said, but what this game does not need is all the video replays.It was clearly a hand ball(only if you saw the replay) but there was no intent and lets be fair that if a Nix player had been involved in scoring a similar goal I am sure we would all be saying it is part of the game.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think as long as the technology is there and the speed of the game is not significantly hindered, then bring on the video referrals. Use it only in the box, and only for goals and penalties. Linesmen should be able to cope with offsides, but the odd dive, handball or did-the-ball-cross-the-line are often too quickor difficult for officials to detect. Controversy is a big part of the appeal of sports, but no one likes to be robbed. I think it works well in other sports, so why not football.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Don't think it was intentional at all, he lunged with his leg up and his head stretched forward, and just missed the ball with both.
�

The ball hit his trailling arm. Honestly, there is no proof to suggest it was deliberate in the way it happened. I think its sour grapes.



Intent isn't really the issue here, that just sounds to me like Green trying to justify his decision to allow the goal.

There are a variety of factors that referees need to consider when making decisions in handball situations if intent is not clear (if it is clear, it's an automatic booking, or a red for DOGSO). These include whether the arm of the 'offending' player was in a natural position for the given situation - clearly it was not in this case, no-one heads the ball with their arm in front of them. What also needs to be considered is the speed that the ball is travelling and from what distance - a ball smashed at a player from five yards out is different from a lofted cross from 30 yards out as in the Payne case. Instructions under which referees receive clearly suggest that Payne should have been penalised for handball and the goal should not have stood.

But I don't really think we should kick up a fuss about this and turn into Ireland of the A-league, we were clearly second best in that game for the full 90 minutes.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Love teh SMH revisionism:
 
"However, on half an hour, Payne ran to the far post and headed in from a Sung Hwan Byun free kick, appearing to handle the ball after it had slid off his forehead."
 
 
His forehead ain't on his elbow and that ball slid past nothing nearhis noggin
 
BTW those facebook groups re a fcking embarrassing disgrace.
 
Touchme, agree with some of what you say, but he flung his arm out because the ball was never going to make contact with his head, and it was obvious it wasn't going to reach his head from some way out.  Hence the arm.
 
If this had happened the other way round, we'd be doing exactly what SFC are doing - celebrating the win, glossing over the cheating and looking forward to the final.
 
Edit - El Grap, I really hope there's not a single Nix supporter asks for a replay or somhing equally stupid.  I felt vicariously embarrassed for Ireland when those pathetic '33rd team' lines started coming out.
Addicks2010-03-14 23:11:18

14/11/09

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Chris Payne would be a handy player to have on the bench.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Footpaul wrote:
I think as long as the technology is there and the speed of the game is not significantly hindered, then bring on the video referrals. Use it only in the box, and only for goals and penalties. Linesmen should be able to cope with offsides, but the odd dive, handball or did-the-ball-cross-the-line are often too quickor difficult for officials to detect. Controversy is a big part of the appeal of sports, but no one likes to be robbed. I think it works well in other sports, so why not football.
      i'm with you Footpaul, we need video referrals, maybe the people against it need to join the Flat Earth Society.  And as for the handball being deliberate or not....if a ball is coming towards you, you can see it coming, you know the rules of the game, the onus is then on the player to get his hand or arm the f^*# out of the way. To put your arm in the path of the ball should be construed as deliberate, as you didn't deliberately get it out of the way.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ahmad wrote:
What was the reaction/feeling within the YF area after that? Can you talk us through it a bit?

I mean sure you would have been devastated like we were at home, but we had the benefit of a dozen replays to throw sh*t at the TV over.
 
We had possibly the best view in the ground from behind the goal. We could blatantly see it was a handball,as could the nix players. There was at first utter disbelief that the goal had been counted,then absolute bloody fury. There was much swearing and punching at chairs.

Allegedly

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Don't think it was intentional at all, he lunged with his leg up and his head stretched forward, and just missed the ball with both.
 
The ball hit his trailling arm. Honestly, there is no proof to suggest it was deliberate in the way it happened. I think its sour grapes.
 
Had it been Greeny and we scored we would of celebrated, claimed it and said had we won the game, that that's football, and we'd be right it is.
 
The young fella had a great game.
 
It was a good season, but we deserved to lose so lets try to do it gracefully.
 
 
What a load of tosh. You've either never played the game, or played it so badly that you could believe that that was accidental.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Don't think it was intentional at all, he lunged with his leg up and his head stretched forward, and just missed the ball with both.
 
The ball hit his trailling arm. Honestly, there is no proof to suggest it was deliberate in the way it happened. I think its sour grapes.
 
 
So you think the goal should have stood?
 
The laws of the game are clear - the goal is only disallowed if there was intent.
 
And because the players never ever admit intent, the ref's guidelines for interpreting intent are also clearly published - being the items I quoted earlier. On the basis of those, particularly the first clause with the arm being up, intent is not even ambiguous - it is totally clear. The laws of the game don't ask for "proof" of intent - this isn't CSI.
 
The ref apparently didn't see it - fair enough, but I can't understand why he would say that initially and then claim accidental handball to Dura at half time.
 
Apart from that, yeah good season and on the balance of the game I can't deny Sydney deserved to win.
 
However, to try and twist the laws of the game and say there was no intent is just perverse.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

We have every right to be bitter. Yes we were outplayed on the night, but football games so often hinge on momentum and the pyschology of the players. Had Payne not blatently cheated, or had the ref seen sense and disallowed the goal, who knows if or when Sydney would have scored again. The game would of course been completely diffferent.

This kind of sh*t spoils our game. I'm all for a law change that states:
 
A player that deliberately handles the ball in the opposition's penalty area creating a goal or goalscoring opportunity should receive a red card ( the reciprocal law to handling in your own box and preventing a goal).  Also I believe  refs should ask the player if they handled the ball and record the answer. If the player says 'no', and on video review ( after the game) is found to have handled it,  he receives a 3 match ban.
 
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:
Chris Payne would be a handy player to have on the bench.


I wouldn't hand him a contract.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
HarryPeters wrote:
ahmad wrote:
What was the reaction/feeling within the YF area after that? Can you talk us through it a bit?

I mean sure you would have been devastated like we were at home, but we had the benefit of a dozen replays to throw sh*t at the TV over.


Only a few people yelling out handball... Most of us were just f**ked off we conceeded again... Then the texts starting coming in from home and everyone knew.

Got a text from a friend in the cove:

"Thierry Henry just scored for Sydney!"

Cheers for the insight mate. And well done on being there. It was awesome seeing you guys on TV.

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:
watch it again....anyone lunging forward to head a ball naturally throws the arms down and back for balance and to get more power. He had his right arm down and back but flung his left arm forward to meet the ball as it missed his head
I also think we would have lost the game anyways, weren't playing our best.
 
But anyone that thinks it was unintentional, humour me.
 
Go outside. Get up a head of steam in an otherwise empty area (run fast in an area you wont hit something ).
 
Now throw your head forward as hard as yuou can if trying to strech out far in front to head a ball quite far away from you.
 
Then try it with your left arm thrust out in a straight position with your left hand curled back away from the direction of the ball.
 
Feels nice and natural with your arm out front eh? Yeah Right!
 
If you want to get further in front with your head, you actually throw your arms back in a harder fashion to get more forwards acceleration.
 
Secondly, whether officially intentional or a ball to hand, the ball came off the arm. It's weird to me even if it was unintentional that a "ball to hand" can be allowed to count as a goal scoring touch outright. That seems wrong to me, like scoring a try in rugby by putting your foot on the ball?
 
 
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Rainman wrote:
zinidane wrote:
watch it again....anyone lunging forward to head a ball naturally throws the arms down and back for balance and to get more power. He had his right arm down and back but flung his left arm forward to meet the ball as it missed his head
I also think we would have lost the game anyways, weren't playing our best.
 
But anyone that thinks it was unintentional, humour me.
 
Go outside. Get up a head of steam in an otherwise empty area (run fast in an area you wont hit something ).
 
Now throw your head forward as hard as yuou can if trying to strech out far in front to head a ball quite far away from you.
 
Then try it with your left arm thrust out in a straight position with your left hand curled back away from the direction of the ball.
 
Feels nice and natural with your arm out front eh? Yeah Right!
 
If you want to get further in front with your head, you actually throw your arms back in a harder fashion to get more forwards acceleration.
 
Secondly, whether officially intentional or a ball to hand, the ball came off the arm. It's weird to me even if it was unintentional that a "ball to hand" can be allowed to count as a goal scoring touch outright. That seems wrong to me, like scoring a try in rugby by putting your foot on the ball?
 
 


His left arm had to be up for balance as his right leg was right up as well.
Whether he was trying to kick it, head it or throw it in, he wins the prize for biggest unco goal of season, up with Leo's groin goal last season
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I've moved on from it, but when he comes to Wellington Next season he needs to be given sh** everytime he gets the ball.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Rainman wrote:
zinidane wrote:
watch it again....anyone lunging forward to head a ball naturally throws the arms down and back for balance and to get more power. He had his right arm down and back but flung his left arm forward to meet the ball as it missed his head
I also think we would have lost the game anyways, weren't playing our best.  
 
Disagree. Without the element of cheating, would you suppose the boys would need to change to an all-attacking style if the score remained level at 1-1?
I would say the style of play would remain somewhat conservative to keep the defense up, and take the opportunistic shots at goal.
 
Not to mention your confidence in the referee would have diminished, with the addition of angst that you've been cheated into being behind in points. It all has an impact on the player pysche
 
The whole game dynamic changes when you're down on points. For example, just look at the AB's when they're down during a world cup.
 
 
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
cainv wrote:
Rainman wrote:
zinidane wrote:
watch it again....anyone lunging forward to head a ball naturally throws the arms down and back for balance and to get more power. He had his right arm down and back but flung his left arm forward to meet the ball as it missed his head
I also think we would have lost the game anyways, weren't playing our best.  
 
Disagree. Without the element of cheating, would you suppose the boys would need to change to an all-attacking style if the score remained level at 1-1?
I would say the style of play would remain somewhat conservative to keep the defense up, and take the opportunistic shots at goal.
 
Not to mention your confidence in the referee would have diminished, with the addition of angst that you've been cheated into being behind in points. It all has an impact on the player pysche
 
The whole game dynamic changes when you're down on points. For example, just look at the AB's when they're down during a world cup.
 
 
 
The AB thing went right over my head, but as for the rest of it. We'd have to be very blinkered to think we lost because of the handball. Our passing was awful, our penetration was lacking... while the way they took the lead smarts, we didn't go all-out attacking until much later in the game and looked second best to Sydney for most of the match.
 
Bring on next season and a chance for revenge.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SiNZ wrote:
cainv wrote:
Rainman wrote:
zinidane wrote:
watch it again....anyone lunging forward to head a ball naturally throws the arms down and back for balance and to get more power. He had his right arm down and back but flung his left arm forward to meet the ball as it missed his head
I also think we would have lost the game anyways, weren't playing our best.  
 
Disagree. Without the element of cheating, would you suppose the boys would need to change to an all-attacking style if the score remained level at 1-1?
I would say the style of play would remain somewhat conservative to keep the defense up, and take the opportunistic shots at goal.
 
Not to mention your confidence in the referee would have diminished, with the addition of angst that you've been cheated into being behind in points. It all has an impact on the player pysche
 
The whole game dynamic changes when you're down on points. For example, just look at the AB's when they're down during a world cup.
 
 
The AB thing went right over my head...
 
My bad for throwing Rugby into the convo
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
CboZ wrote:
I've moved on from it, but when he comes to Wellington Next season he needs to be given sh** everytime he gets the ball.


My thoughts exactly
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
 
Hope Chris Payne ends up like this guy...
 
 

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
BlattersBalls wrote:
TouchMe wrote:
Don't think it was intentional at all, he lunged with his leg up and his head stretched forward, and just missed the ball with both.
 
The ball hit his trailling arm. Honestly, there is no proof to suggest it was deliberate in the way it happened. I think its sour grapes.
 
Had it been Greeny and we scored we would of celebrated, claimed it and said had we won the game, that that's football, and we'd be right it is.
 
The young fella had a great game.
 
It was a good season, but we deserved to lose so lets try to do it gracefully.
 
 
What a load of tosh. You've either never played the game, or played it so badly that you could believe that that was accidental.
 
Muppet... watch it again without your head stuck up your arse. None of the players have an issues with Payne, just the ref. Why? because it was an accident, otherwise why aren't the media attacking him like they did Henry.
 
Have played for years, to a good standard, just can't stand whiney little women sulking... so stop rolling around on the floor crying foul and man up and take it on the chin.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SiNZ wrote:
[QUOTE=TouchMe]Don't think it was intentional at all, he lunged with his leg up and his head stretched forward, and just missed the ball with both.
 
The ball hit his trailling arm. Honestly, there is no proof to suggest it was deliberate in the way it happened. I think its sour grapes.
 
 
So you think the goal should have stood?
 
NO!!
 
Ref screwed us large. I just don't believe the player did it on purpose and the video footage shows it. Not defending the decision, just saying the calls of cheat are off.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Glad to see the hread is beginning to see a little more clearly now.
 
We all agree the ref is a twat, and needs to be repimanded for his call of unitentional as it doesn't matter according to the rules.
 
Yes give Payne grief when he visits, it will be good for the atmosphere.
 
But he is not a cheat.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Actually Bosnich did give it a serious comment and the others too at the time. Lonegunmen2010-03-15 19:00:42
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bring on next season,
 
but i did think craig fosters comments on some aussie football show were ridiculous that a junior player can't be expected to own up that a senior player should have steeped in what absoloute rubbish were talking about proffesionals here people who get money for what they do it is the duty of any proffesional to own up to something like that not just a senior player
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It was obvious at the ground it was a dodgy goal coz they never replayed it on the screen. It was seen by many of the YF team at the ground and they did yell out - normally when we concede it simly goes quite.

That said, and disappointed as I was I am not gonna blame Payne. We will never get players fessing up for hings like this and where do you draw the line .. I know this is worse than Henri's as it was the touch that got the goal rather than as part of an earlier play.

But blame has to go to the referee / linesman for not being professional enough to see this handball. Haviung just returned fro Sydney today I have not caught up on all the news onthis but word was at half time he said to Durante he didn't blow it because it was not intentional- does that mean he did see it and if so that is ridiculous.

Overall the players did us proud, great they came to us after he game to shake our hand and you could see and feel the dejection and disappointment.

Lets show what good sports we are - Well done Sydney.. C'Mon Melbourne
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I-C-Red Devils wrote:
Lets show what good sports we are - Well done Sydney.. C'Mon Melbourne
 
FTB!

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I-C-Red Devils wrote:
It was obvious at the ground it was a dodgy goal coz they never replayed it on the screen. It was seen by many of the YF team at the ground and they did yell out - normally when we concede it simly goes quite.

That said, and disappointed as I was I am not gonna blame Payne. We will never get players fessing up for hings like this and where do you draw the line .. I know this is worse than Henri's as it was the touch that got the goal rather than as part of an earlier play.

But blame has to go to the referee / linesman for not being professional enough to see this handball. Haviung just returned fro Sydney today I have not caught up on all the news onthis but word was at half time he said to Durante he didn't blow it because it was not intentional- does that mean he did see it and if so that is ridiculous.

Overall the players did us proud, great they came to us after he game to shake our hand and you could see and feel the dejection and disappointment.

Lets show what good sports we are - Well done Sydney.. C'Mon Melbourne
agree....the officals made a shocker.....the ref was never in the correct postion [ should been wider]....they have to live with there call....Will Mr Green be in Wellington next season...and go Melbourne too

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
SiNZ wrote:
[QUOTE=TouchMe]Don't think it was intentional at all, he lunged with his leg up and his head stretched forward, and just missed the ball with both.
 
The ball hit his trailling arm. Honestly, there is no proof to suggest it was deliberate in the way it happened. I think its sour grapes.
 
 
So you think the goal should have stood?
 
NO!!
 
Ref screwed us large. I just don't believe the player did it on purpose and the video footage shows it. Not defending the decision, just saying the calls of cheat are off.
 
You can't say it was accidental and the ref screwed us. The ref has to follow the laws of the game: accidental handball is not a foul.
 
If you are the ref and you do not believe there was intention, you have to accept the goal. That is what the laws of the game say.
 
The goal was given, which means the ref either did not see it or he did see it and agrees with you it was accidental.
 
And as has been said, numerous times, the laws give the ref a guideline to decide on whether intent exists - because players don't admit it. Understandably. The logical decision is that he didn't see it. I can accept that, reluctantly.
 
What I can't accept is saying it was accidental and the goal shouldn't have stood - that is not within the laws and it's rare for a ref to decide to make an exception to the rules!
 
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