Lets look at Fergie's record in Europe at United

80 replies · 14,384 views
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
paulm wrote:
EN I can't believe you've claimed that ManU lacked ambition and desire to play football in that game... i believe this is a common misconception levelled at teams playing against Barca (aside from Jose's teams perhaps...). The same thing was levelled at arsenal after our second leg loss... these arguments are based on statistics, not the actual viewing of the match.
Just because ManU had few shots, little possession and commited more fouls doesn't mean they 'didnt try to play football'. All it reflects is that Barca had the ball most of the time, and that when ManU got it, they lost it quickly no matter what they tried. End of.
 
I saw no malicious play in that game from ManU players - I saw some late tackles, most of them genuine ball-winning attempts that barca were just too quick for. And you expect frustration when a good team cannot get the ball, that's how it is - there's a big difference between frustration and teams deliberately fouling and trying to win without playing at all (See Stoke or Brum).
 
To be honest your whole tone and attitude in your posts in this thread is shocking, and it all sounds like very very very sour grapes. ManU won the league, they made the champs lge final, they are the best team in england right now, end of story. Your lot won nothing (just like my lot),and weren't even good enough to compete for the champions league this year. I like liverpool more than ManU, don't get me wrong, and I normally like you, but you need to settle down and stop rarking everyone up with this crap...
 
 
Yeah, thats a fair point, and when you're chasing the ball all day, of course you are gonna commit fouls. United never got close enough to the ball to play like that anyway. But you played some football in the first leg as well. 
 
That's what I'm saying though? I never said they kicked players off the park or anything of the sort, I'm just sick of him having a go at Iniesta at every chance. Iniesta never 'targeted' Valencia, thats just rubbish. Valencia got wound up cos they couldn't get the ball and then made some silly fouls.
 
Again, i'm not arguing that United weren't the best team in England this year, they obviously were, but 20legend's bigoted view of Spanish football is furstrating as f**k. I just wish he would at least admit that they are fantastic players in a fantastic team. You'd think after 2 maulings he would be gracious enough to admit they lost to a great team (like most United fans) and he needs to get off his high horse about it all, tbh.
 
But whatever, I'll leave it there. I hate Ferguson (that much is obvious) and I'm not a big fan of United. But I can admit they have a fantastic domestic record and have dominated English football for 20 years, as much as I hate it.    
 
(Hypocrite alert)
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Ni�o wrote:
 
(Hypocrite alert)
I do seem to recall you claiming United are full of cheats and divers...
 
Suarez anyone?
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Ni�o wrote:
paulm wrote:
EN I can't believe you've claimed that ManU lacked ambition and desire to play football in that game... i believe this is a common misconception levelled at teams playing against Barca (aside from Jose's teams perhaps...). The same thing was levelled at arsenal after our second leg loss... these arguments are based on statistics, not the actual viewing of the�match.
Just because ManU had few shots, little possession and commited more fouls doesn't mean they 'didnt try to play football'. All it reflects is that Barca had the ball most of the time, and that when ManU got it, they lost it quickly no matter what they tried. End of.

�

I saw no malicious play in that game from ManU players - I saw some late tackles, most of them genuine ball-winning attempts that barca were just�too quick for. And you expect frustration when a good team cannot get the ball, that's how it is - there's a big difference between�frustration and teams deliberately fouling and trying to win without playing at all (See Stoke or Brum).

�

To be honest your whole�tone and attitude in your posts in this thread is shocking, and it all sounds like very very very sour grapes. ManU won the league, they made the champs lge final, they are the best team in england right now, end of story. Your lot won nothing (just like my lot),and weren't even good enough to compete for the champions league this year. I like liverpool more than ManU, don't get me wrong, and I normally like you, but you need to settle down and stop rarking everyone up with this crap...

�
[/QUOTE]

�

Yeah, thats a fair point, and when you're chasing the ball all day, of course you are gonna commit fouls. United never got close enough to the ball to play like that anyway. But you played some football in the first leg as well.�

�

That's what I'm saying though? I never said they kicked players off the park or anything of the sort, I'm just sick of him having a go at Iniesta at every chance. Iniesta never 'targeted' Valencia, thats just rubbish. Valencia got wound up cos they couldn't get the ball and then�made some silly fouls.

�

Again, i'm not arguing that United weren't the best team in England this year, they obviously were, but 20legend's bigoted view of Spanish football is furstrating as f**k. I just wish he would at least admit that they are fantastic players in a fantastic team. You'd think after 2 maulings he would be gracious enough to admit they lost to a great team (like most United fans) and he needs to get off his high horse about it all, tbh.

�

But whatever, I'll leave it there. I hate Ferguson (that much is obvious) and I'm not a big fan of United. But�I can�admit they have a fantastic domestic record�and have dominated English football for 20 years, as much as I hate it.    

�

(Hypocrite alert)
[/QUOTE]EN, did I ever saw they weren't?? Have you ever asked me what I think of the Spanish Players skills???

I don't know if you've read the Champions League thread but I'll quote my own post from their just in case you missed it...

[QUOTE=20 legend] So refreshing to have a without too much controversy. Iniesta showed signs of bringing back the good old "lets just fall over" Barcelona but no one else was keen.

Congratulations Barcelona, and although I dislike most of them they all seem like good blokes.

United season still a very, very good one. Written off at the start of the year (like usual) but still doing this. I think its fair to say we're the 2nd best team in the world right now.

The worst thing? Having to listen to an entire season of pundits pumping the Barcelona bubble.

[QUOTE=Tony P on Twitter]Barca too good. How would they fare over a season with teams like Man Utd, Milan, Inter, Chelsea. Dortmund, Bayern?


And tbh, the only reason I haven't said, "United were played off the park" is because it was pretty bloody obvious.

And yes, they were targeting Valencia, it was blindingly obvious. If I was playing football would I purposely target a player? Yes. Have I? Yes. But it is a trait of Barcelona and Spain that is painstakingly obvious and was brought to light because Madrid kicked up such a stink.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
20 legend wrote:
And yes, they were targeting Valencia, it was blindingly obvious. If I was playing football would I purposely target a player? Yes. Have I? Yes. But it is a trait of Barcelona and Spain that is painstakingly obvious and was brought to light because Madrid kicked up such a stink.


Without wishing to enter into this whole debate, I just want to address this quickly - what exactly do you mean by 'targeting Valencia'? This really was a classic example of a frustrated player lashing out - he touched the ball 3 times in the first five minutes, then chased shadows for the rest of the game. He should have been carded in the first 25 minutes for persistent infringing, think he ended up committing half the United fouls in what for the most part was a tough but fair game.

As for the 'trait', it's a load of bollocks - the only reason we got a soap-opera in the semi-final is because Real came out tohack, and Barcelona responded with theatrics. Simple as that.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
20 legend wrote:
And yes, they were targeting Valencia, it was blindingly obvious. If I was playing football would I purposely target a player? Yes. Have I? Yes. But it is a trait of Barcelona and Spain that is painstakingly obvious and was brought to light because Madrid kicked up such a stink.


Without wishing to enter into this whole debate, I just want to address this quickly - what exactly do you mean by 'targeting Valencia'? This really was a classic example of a frustrated player lashing out - he touched the ball 3 times in the first five minutes, then chased shadows for the rest of the game. He should have been carded in the first 25 minutes for persistent infringing, think he ended up committing half the United fouls in what for the most part was a tough but fair game.

As for the 'trait', it's a load of bollocks - the only reason we got a soap-opera in the semi-final is because Real came out tohack, and Barcelona responded with theatrics. Simple as that.
Valencia let a soft couple of fouls go early in the game, most of which Barcelona players tried to lift to Yellow Card status. From then on in, Barcelona players (mainly Iniesta) fell over every time Valencia went near them.

And seeing as you don't want to get into a huge debate and that I am not going to make video evidence the "trait" thing can be agree to disagree.20 legend2011-06-01 22:44:53
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
20 legend wrote:
Valencia let a soft couple of fouls go early in the game, most of which Barcelona players tried to lift to Yellow Card status. From then on in, Barcelona players (mainly Iniesta) fell over every time Valencia went near them.



Like I said, yellow card is fully appropriate for a player who comits 3-4 fouls in the space of 10 minutes - it's called persistent infringing and is covered in the LotG.

I only remember one instance when Iniesta went down easily, and even then there was a case to be made for a foul as there was some evidence of a (very light) pullback. The point being, with a stricter referee, Valencia would have been carded much earlier than he was, and maybe he wouldn't have looked like such a numpty after that.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agreed with EG. Valencia was ridiculously lucky not to be booked, I actually couldn't believe how much he was getting away with.

Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Arsenal wrote:
Agreed with EG. Valencia was ridiculously lucky not to be booked, I actually couldn't believe how much he was getting away with.
 
Seconded. there was one foul, on Messi I think it was, where that should have been a yellow in its own right, never mind with all the fouling that he was doing beforehand. And agree, I can only think of one time Iniesta fell over far too easily, where he simply got outmuscled, and got the foul.
 
Madrid bring the worst out of Barca, especially with Jose.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Ni�o wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Agreed with EG. Valencia was ridiculously lucky not to be booked, I actually couldn't believe how much he was getting away with.



�

Seconded. there was one foul, on Messi I think it was, where that should have been a yellow in its own right, never mind with all the fouling that he was doing�beforehand. And agree, I can only think of one time Iniesta fell over far too easily, where he simply got outmuscled, and got the foul.

�

Madrid bring the worst out of Barca, especially with Jose.


Agree completely.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Ni�o wrote:
I really do think its a joke that Ferguson doesn't even have a song at OT. 
 
 
 
 
 
Bill Shankley's got one at OT

We're the WELLINGTON Phoenix

And this is our Home

Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Kiwi Hatter wrote:
El-Ni�o wrote:
I really do think its a joke that Ferguson doesn't even have a song at OT. 
 
 
 
 
 
Bill Shankley's got one at OT
 
that's my fking point, mate. And it's Shankly.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
20 legend wrote:
You know EN, you are actually wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSmpRbun1ss Jump to 1:00.

He is just trying to wind you up. He knows nothinging about football. Just a Walter Mitty.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Ni�o wrote:
Kiwi Hatter wrote:
El-Ni�o wrote:
I really do think its a joke that Ferguson doesn't even have a song at OT. 
 
 
 
 
 
Bill Shankley's got one at OT
 
that's my fking point, mate. And it was Shankly.
 
 
Fixed

We're the WELLINGTON Phoenix

And this is our Home

Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Leggy wrote:
20 legend wrote:
You know EN, you are actually wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSmpRbun1ss Jump to 1:00.

He is just trying to wind you up. He knows nothinging about football. Just a Walter Mitty.
 
At least I can spell mate. But you got the first part right.
 
But you have got to be taking the piss with that video
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
EN you lost. Apology accepted.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I said at Old Trafford mate, not some kid sitting in a car. Anyway, I'm bored of this. Was good for a laugh, though, for sure.
Permalink Permalink
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sorry. I thought it would be slightly more interesting to see a young kid sing it instead of a dodgy videoes recorded off cellphones of men.

Sorry to disappoint.
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

So he retires with 2 European Cups in 26 years. It will always be a blot on his record.

Three for me, and two for them.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Classy


Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Where's your roundup of the YF Trophy Manager leagues Tegal? I'm waiting...

Three for me, and two for them.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Haha tomorrow night. Doing an assignment tonight, which is why I'm on here (and Facebook)


Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

Buffon II wrote:

So he retires with 2 European Cups in 26 years. It will always be a blot on his record.


I don't think there are many managers in Europe have ever been consistent at winning European cups. It's not really a good thing to measure absolute success by. 

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Possibly Buffy but still two more than Wenger.

Peoples Republik of Aucklandia

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

I think this thread is a summation of English football as a whole. The two longest serving managers in the EPL have won a total of 2 championships in Europe? And yet at various times the teams have dominated English football. For me it says more about the lack of "real" quality and diversity in the English game - which if you look at international level is fairly obvious.

Queenslander 3x a year.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Paisley 3- 2 Ferguson. Boss, that.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

re-name this the sour grapes thread?

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

His record? Something the rest of us can only dream about if we're being honest.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

13 English league titles. The same as Arsenal over their entire history.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

El-Pistolero wrote:

Paisley 3- 2 Ferguson. Boss, that.


Ferguson has won the top English division more times than Paisley, Shankly and Dalglish combined. Easy to be selective with statistics.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

steelo wrote:

El-Pistolero wrote:

Paisley 3- 2 Ferguson. Boss, that.


Ferguson has won the top English division more times than Paisley, Shankly and Dalglish combined. Easy to be selective with statistics.


I think you're forgetting something.
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

fagan?

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

paulm wrote:

fagan?


No, only in relation to Shankly,Paisley and Dalglish.Specifically Dalglish.
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

im lost then - his statistic is correct? 

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

 No, it isn't.Those three managers have won 13 top English division titles as well.12 for Liverpool and one for Blackburn.

Ferguson is a pretty good manager for sure.I wonder if it bugs him that he didn't win more european titles?

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Pop quiz, Who was Manager of Aston Villa when they won the EC?

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

 Tony Barton.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Sanday wrote:

 No, it isn't.Those three managers have won 13 top English division titles as well.12 for Liverpool and one for Blackburn.


ahhh you clever sod!
 
Permalink Permalink