(The not-so-temporary quite-official) Gooner Thread (Part 2)

Nah, he's back in time to get a few games so Hodgson can justify taking him to the Euros from which he'll come back injured and we won't see him again until next April.

As if it matters now. Wilshere is finished as a top footballer.

i cant understand wengers decision this morning, with 10mins to play and us really needing a win, he takes off ozil and bring on jack. 

To me that was an emotional move not a tactical one to win the game with, and a sign that he has given up and is settling in to his happy spot of fourth. 

Giroud is now like 13 or 14 games without a goal. this morning he didn't even know where the goal was or his team mates were for that matter. his passing and overall play was very poor. If i was wally or welbz and seeing that you are being kept out of the starting 11 by his incompetence you have to start questioning things. 

fark this season

In which decade?

Yeah I couldn't understand his inaction. Welbeck should have come on for Giroud at half time, then maybe Walcott later on but TBH Walcott looks awful. When Mannone came out of his area and Welbeck got pushed off the ball, Walcott had Kabul dead to rights on that ball but leaped over the challenge. Had he actually gone into the challenge he likely would have kept the ball in Arsenal possession and created more scoring opportunities.

Should've been Welbeck on at halftime 

Could've should've would've. Didn't. How many seasons is that now?

Giroud, Webeck, Walcott, it's all much of muchness anyway. None of them should start for Aston Villa, let alone play such an integral role in a CL side. It really beggars belief that someone who had Wright then Bergkamp then Henry has persisted with such horseshark up front for so long.

The systematic failure to spend money on forwards has cost us the most in terms of wasted opportunities. No one wins the league without a top class, fit and firing striker with adequate goalscorers around him. Due to injury, poor planning, players failing to meet expectations and most of all underinvestment, we haven't gone into a season with those options in a decade.

Spending the money on Ozil was pointless when we haven't provided him with a top class forward to supply.

This thread is one giant whinging, crying broken record. 

Worse than the arsenal performances themselves. 

100% right ajc. However, there are some that said Benzema, Higuain, Cavani, Greizmann, Manzukic, Morata wouldn't be any better, they managed to do alright again this season though. We aren't winning another Premier League with Wenger in charge unfortunately, I genuinely would have liked to have seen him end on a high. We are going backwards and I can't see us doing any better next year.

One positive from the weekend, the yids get reminded of 61 and never again.

Much like every season over the last decade which makes it all the more amazing that nothing looks set to change.

Haha, yeah.

Pretty happy with my fantasy performance this year, sitting at 3rd with 1977 points. Hoping to catch second (1986 pts) and earn some money. 1st place too far now sadly. 

Good work Leicester. How ever crappy this season has been, they've been fantastic, and I will not detract from that. A great tale. 

I think you'll find a lot of people said that those guys weren't actually available, not that they wouldn't be good enough (although Griezzman wasn't really discussed as he was seen as a winger, and we didn't think we needed one at the start of the season). In the last couple of years we've tried our darndest to sign Benzema, Higuain, Morata and Suarez at varying stages, and failed. Personally, given the lack of decent strikers actually going around, I would go big and give Zlatan huge wages on a one season deal, while we hunt for that mythical beast that would be a world class centre forward for us for years to come. 

Yes I understand your feelings AJC, you've commented as much about a thousand times, hence my broken record comment!

After assessing this season a little bit more over the last few weeks (when I've been absent from this thread), I feel that we should be getting rid of Walcott altogether, and replacing him with a striker (one of the above would be good). Walcott doesn't add anything on the wings anymore for me, he was always a stop-gap there as he developed as a striker, but he's just not good enough to be that striker for us. 

He really has epitomised my frustration over the last month or two. That pathetic giveaway against Palace when we were breaking and needed a goal, and then not even putting a foot into that challenge at the weekend. This guy doesn't care enough for the cause and I'm done with him. 

Looking to next season, Wenger won't be leaving, but with all the fan frustration, a year left on his contract, and some natural squad attrition in terms of Arteta, Rosicky and Flamini, he will simply have to spend. 

We basically haven't needed Arteta and Rosicky at all this season anyway, and although Flamini played in the first half, he wasn't needed in the second after we got Elneny. And even then, Wilshere, Ox and Cazorla were all still injured. So we don't need to replace those three guys with three new guys. I reckon we probably only need one, at best, along with perhaps keeping Zelalem in the squad rather than loaning him out. 

I think we sell Walcott, and maybe Giroud too if we bring in two more forwards. 

Not really sure on the defence. On paper, looking at each individual, I'd be happy. But the fact is we've conceded some cheap goals with these exact guys, so we do need to look at it. Would it hurt to bring in a big shiny experienced world class centre half? And perhaps hold onto Per, Kosc, Gabriel and Chambers at the same time? Might be hard to find one, but I feel that should be the goal.

So I guess in summary, my preference would be;

Sell/release;

Walcott

Debuchy

Arteta

Flamini 

Rosicky

Buy;

Striker

CM

CB

+ keep Zelalem in squad

And if Gibbs does push to leave, then obviously need to replace him as well.

Thoughts?

Zelalem can't get much time for Rangers - who are playing a similar possession based style to us, so I hope he's not near our squad next season, he needs more development. Going by reports from Rangers fans, the kid undoubtedly has the touch and the skills; he needs to learn the game craft - a bit more resilience, and also how to be more dominant. 

Reluctantly (Ihad high hopes too), I agree that Theo should go, and I wouldn't be too sorry of the Ox went too - especially given some of the laughable figures that Citeh et al would supposedly offer for him.

We simply must buy another striker - and whilst I concur with your sentiment Paul, AW won't pay Zlatan wages for a month, let alone a year lol... we need need someone near the top echelon, though (again) I can't see AW spending the necessary $$$$ to get one. We'll probably have Giroud again and 

I also agree that we need a centre half - and, given the others likely to leave, a winger too... because as much as I love Rambo, he's really not a wide player... though to be fair in our set up he's barely a central player either.

So with the above departures Paul mentioned, plus the Ox if we get offered Citeh money - we need a starting CB, mid, and striker... as well as an additional mid and winger - along with a couple of kids bought up (though Gideon shouldn't be one of them, yet). 

We simply need change; what we've been doing over recent years will not win us the league... we need a different type of player and we need a different type of approach (or at least more ability to adapt when required) and hopefully the boss has recognised as much #COYG

Obviously top of the list is a new manager but that's not happening in the foreseeable future so....

Wenger doesn't do mass clearouts so we'll probably just see Rosicky and Arteta go, though wouldn't be surprised if either was offered another year. I thought Debuchy was already gone or is he just on loan? Would be shocked if Flamini is let go and there are already rumours he's been offered a one year deal. Walcott has to go now, but Ox is still young enough that it's worth persisting with him for the time being. As long as there is quality ahead of him in the pecking order.

Top priority is a striker, and quality ones don't come cheap. If you want one you just have to pay the money. What good is 100 million left in the bank and another 4th place? And "noone was available" or "we enquired about X and were told he was not for sale" are not acceptable. The latter is what he said about Martial, then he was sold to United. It's not the same as a store where you can only buy what is in stock. With a few exceptions like say Messi, most players outside of Bayern, Barcelona or Real Madrid are available if you pay the money, and even then we've managed to get a couple off those clubs. 

Probably have a CB next with Mertesacker only getting slower and Gabriel looking worse with every game. Chambers is not quite ready to be a starter. Then probably a CM to play alongside Elneny. We cannot plan for Wilshere to be fit to start 45 games, the more likely scenario is he comes back from the Euros crocked and we don't seem him until April again.

If we lost Gibbs I'd like to see us have a go at van Aanholt - thought he looked good on the weekend, kept Sanchez relatively quite when out wide.

Otherwise agree with that shopping list!

Yea get your reasoning behind Zelalem but in all seriousness, he isn't going to play much here either. 

For basically two midfield roles, we have;

Elneny

Coquelin

Ramsey

Wilshere

Cazorla

Ox (if he stays)

So if we have 5 of these 6 out injured, and sign no one else (I think we should sign one), then we might play Zelalem. But even then probably not - we'd probably put Chambers in a defensive role there first if we were short. 

Having said that, from what I've seen, Zelalem is more a no.10 than a proper midfielder anyway, in which case he'd probably be miles down the pecking order. Ozil, Wilshere, Cazorla, Ox and even Iwobi would start there before Zelalem did. 

So I guess I've gone so far with this argument now that perhaps he should indeed be loaned out again, because he'll never get any minutes with us next season hahahaha

Meanwhile, our Club Captain: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/18/tottenham-want-arsenal-captain-mikel-arteta-to-join-coaching-sta/

Some great points.

God I hope the Flamini thing isn't true - where you getting that rumour? Maybe keeping him is a clause in Ozil's contract hahahahaha.

Excellent point regarding the strikers and availability. We do need to go big on that. It seems Wenger is a fan of Morata, we've been chasing him a bit these past couple of years. He could be the one they throw stacks of cash at. I think Higuain is too old to pay a huge fee for now. 

Agree about Mertesacker - good time to put another CB into the mix. Gabriel has all the ingredients but has work to do mentally. Kosc is awesome but needs an organiser next to him. We need to sign a leader who organises the defence, much like Mertesacker but a couple of years younger and a bit faster. Hummels? Too short? Someone of that calibre anyway.

Agree we can't plan to use Wilshere all season. He needs to be a luxury squad member while we wait and see if he's going to shake these injury problems. And I agree about the Ox as well - far too young and far too much potential to get rid of just yet. 

Debate would be fierce around the starting eleven, so perhaps ignore my decisions on that (I'm not sure of them myself, particularly in midfield), but ideally I hope we'd be looking at two elevens of this quality next season;

First Eleven:

                         Cech

Bellerin-New CB-Koscielny-Monreal

               Elneny-Ramsey

               Ox-Ozil-Sanchez

                   New striker

Second Eleven:

                      Ospina

Jenkinson-Mertesacker-Gabriel-Gibbs

             Coquelin-Cazorla

     Campbell-Wilshere-Iwobi

                    Welbeck

That leaves the following guys to sell, release, loan out, or they remain but wouldn't make our top 22 (my preference in brackets, and the last 4 are just the academy guys apparently closest to our first team right now);

Arteta (release)

Flamini (release)

Rosicky (release)

Walcott (sell)

Debuchy (sell)

Giroud (keep or replace)

Chambers (keep)

Gnabry (keep/loan)

Zelalem (keep/loan)

Bielik (keep/loan)

Willock (keep/loan)

Reine-Adelaide (keep/loan)

In reality, if Arteta, Flamini, Rosicky, Walcott and Debuchy were all to go, then we'd need some further purchases as well. The squad would not be large enough. 

Also haven't addressed some of our loanees, in particular: Szczesny, Akpom, Sanogo, Maitland-Niles, Hayden, Martinez, Toral, Wellington, 

i agree with most of that Paul. But I cant see Arsenal letting go of that many players at once. Wenger just loves everyone to much to make such a squad overhaul. Though i do think that it is needed. Also, i cant see him buying a new starting CB and we have to realistic at his abilities to entice a world class striker. I wont be surprised to see Giroud being our starting striker next year

I had completely forgot about Jenkinson! how has he been going at West ham? wasn't he injured? I don't know what we should do with him next year...

as for the loanees, id:

Szczesny - keep and sell Ospina

Akpom - Loan

Sanogo - sell

Maitland-Niles - loan

Hayden - loan

Martinez - sell

Toral - loan or keep with squad

Wellington - unsure but most likely loan. is he going to be the new Campbell? 

Ox in your first team? Maybe in a year or two. Campbell and to a lesser extent Welbeck and Walcott ahead of him at this stage IMHO. Other than that, I think you are fairly close. I still have a soft spot for the BFG. Hope he gets his shark together. 

;)

Yea hard to say who would start wide right (assuming Sanchez is moved back to the left next year).

Midfield too - I can hardly pick who to play out of Ramsey, Cazorla, Elneny, Wilshere and Coquelin. The key thing is getting a blend that works -we know that Ramsey and Coquelin doesn't work, but Ramsey and Elneny seems to fit like a glove so far. We know that Cazorla wouldn't really work with anyone except Coquelin, given his size. He needs that rabid animal next to him or the midfield is too lightweight.

I wonder if Cazorla pushing back out onto a flank could work next year? I always liked him wide left before Arsene starting playing him in a deeper role last season. 

Our game against Norwich is live on TV1 Sunday morning at 4-20am. We've actually been quite lucky in the amount of Arsenal games that have been shown. Really hoping for a win so will put myself through the torture of watching this live.

Diego Simeone anyone?

Why would he come to a lesser club? Atletico are on fire at the moment; not to mention his way of playing does not suit our personnel at all. Do you imagine that Ozil would like being asked to press for 90 minutes? Hah

He is #1 on the list of managers we have no chance of getting imo.

Atletico under Simeone is yet another club that highlights how busted Arsenal is under Wenger. Far less resources but with a manager that knows exactly what he wants and ensures he gets the right players to do it. 

If he did manage in England I wonder if there would be constant abuse at away grounds over 1998 or would people be over that now?

Weird, would have thought they would show Leicester playing to win the title. Probably because they haven't shown Norwich much this season and they are still playing for something so it's their turn to be on.

But I think Ozil would. The man constantly runs his bollocks off and is one of the players who is often unfairly criticised for his lack of work rate when in reality he is clocking up over 10km's per game. https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenals-...

Regardless of who we bring in we need to change our style, it's not working. Sounds like a pro, not a con for bringing him in

As for lesser club comment I think you're forgetting the difference in prestige here, and that Arsenal would present a new challenge for him in a new league. If he wants that challenge.

AJC - probably not - but it's all a part of the game isn't it?

Leicester playing Utd is live but game is on Sunday.

Ah right, should have checked the schedule.

So most seem to agree we won't get Simeone, as much as we might like him - for the sake of change if little else... and assuming we have another year of Groundhog Day - who do we think could replace Wenger? 

Let's for a moment assume that he does pull the pin at the end of next season, because goodness knows Silent Stan or our board aren't going to pull the rug out from under him - who could/should we realistically hope or expect to get?

 - Vieira?

 - Koeman?

 - Martinez? 

 - Pochettino?

 - Ancelotti?

 - Low?

I don't know myself... whilst for various reasons I don't want any of the above (Pochettino would have been good, but not now he's been stained), I can't put my finger on anyone who I do want.

Help me out... who could be our next coach - in some ways it's a tough act to follow, but it's time someone did. And a large part of me would love someone like Simeone who will bring in a completely different outlook and approach... the last thing we need is a junior wannabe Wenger because that is doomed to fail (more so than the original is), just ask Leggy.

For the 8th time in 3 years lets get Jorge Sampaoli

Henry looks like he's being groomed.

Recently got some kind of uefa A licence, now sitting the next level up, and rumours of a promotion within the academy for next season.

Wenger must absolutely not be involved in choosing his successor. Worst case scenario is he moves upstairs and appoints one of his puppets like Bould or Remi Garde and nothing much changes. Would still be shocked if it's not Bould. Should probably have gone for Klopp when the opportunity was there.