(The not-so-temporary quite-official) Gooner Thread

Sorry I didn't mean to be so harsh in hindsight tekkers, but I still stand by my comment. I read your post and considered it rationally, but it didn't change my opinion, that's all. It's not part of any larger philosophy I have in life on people's opinions in general, or a blanket rule I have for ManU fans, or anything at all like that. I just meant what I said - I don't think what ManU fans see in Mikhitaryan is the real Mikhitaryan, that's all. 

Some bits to improve on this morn but overall that was just about as cohesive as I've seen us all season. Wilshere, Xhaka and Ozil were spectacular at times in midfield, and aside from the early set pieces, Palace weren't as bad as the commentators were making out. We just didn't give them much of a chance.

I never saw Xhaka as anything more than a deep-lying midfielder but that display has me wondering, and Elneny was immense in the holding role, I was very impressed. 

Monreal, two assists and a goal, crazy! We have missed him defensively. 

I hope this is just a bit of a bedding in with Kolasinac and not a lacking of confidence in him from Wenger. I sort of thought Monreal was a permanent centre half now, but this morning reminded me of how good he is further out. 

If we're going to a back four, that one this morning might now be the first choice, meaning Kolasinac is 2nd or even 3rd choice behind AMN. If we stop playing a back 3 the future doesn't bode well for him. 

A rare good weekend for Arse/Nix fans!

If United felt Mikhitaryan would make a major difference to us they wouldn't be letting him come, because proper big clubs don't give their best players to their most hated rivals like we do (and before someone points out how far ahead they are, I understand we are not currently competing for the same league position this season, but are certainly hated rivals throughout the Premier League era). We give them Van Persie and Sanchez and they give us Welbeck and Silvestre.Their dross who can't make their side. Perhaps we'll end up with Evans too, albeit indirectly.

To allow a situation to occur where your only option is sell your best player to a rival is unforgivable and a massive insult to the fans. It's further confirmation that the leadership at the club do not care about football or the fans. The final "thanks for your interest in our affairs"really. I feel just about ready to pack it in and find something else I might enjoy, but then the club has been part of me for most of my life, and watching the game this morning I enjoyed it and felt happy. I can't just give it up, but can certainly try and tone things down emotionally and live in hope that at some point in my lifetime the club's leadership will change and the focus will again be on football results, not merely to add value to an uninterested billionaire's portfolio. 

I hate to be the spelling Police but if we are to sign him, could we please start spelling his name correctly :)

Just need to know his shirt number so we can go with HM## ;)

Ah, apologies on the spelling I admit I copy and pasted the name from another post rather than attempt it myself or bother to look it up elsewhere.

Also, it will be interesting to see what happens when Pogba, Martial etc demand 400K+ per week to match Sanchez when they are up for renewal. That is assuming they are not already on similar which I'm not sure.

400K a week is just a fancy way of saying "large signing bonus" which is the nature of a move with 6 months left on a contract. Doubt it will be a problem.

Look at it this way - supporting Arsenal is frustrating, but at least you do not support a club like Portsmouth. It could be far worse. We play some beautiful football at times, still, and we're at the stage where if we pull through and win a game it's a surprising occasion. 

Sanchez was always overrated anyway.

:p

Now for Aubameyang please. 

Mkhitaryan + Aubameyang > Walcott + Sanchez

Thank fudge he's gone.

Welcome Mkhitaryan. 

That will be a net gain for the January window in my mind.

Just need an upgrade on Coquelin and we've had a great window - although isn't sounding likely.

If we get PA with HM would be interesting to see them line up:

             AL      PA

      Ozil                   HM

              AR    JW

         NM SM LK HB

Let the full backs provide with, 2 quick strikers making runs, and AR/JW with less demand on them to make late runs forward thus stabilising the midfield. Elneny/Xhaka become your losers in this scenario.

New signing in, hopefully another good one coming, disruptive dressing room influence out, 2x rivals dropping points, ending up a fairly positive week.

Now for Chelsea... Wenger definitely has the wood on Conte, can he keep it up?

If we get PEA, MO will re-sign... which will be like a (nother) new signing. Sweet.

Feels absolutely sickening to give our best player to them and in return effectively replace Walcott. Massive insult to the fans but it's done now so all we can hope is he makes some sort of a difference and doesn't end up being another reserve player on high wages that we can't shift. I guess the bar is low in that we only need him to be better than Welbeck and Iwobi and hopefully his signing isn't used as a reason why we can cope with Ozil leaving for free in the summer.

Best description of the situation I've read:

The reason why Sanchez left us because the way the team and club are run. The reason he chose Man United is because they offered more money. 

Disgraceful situation but at least we can move on. Aubameyang would be be a good move but hardly going to make us a good team again. If only swap transfers were available in the manager market, I'd take a similar deal (in the individual coming to us isn't as good as going out).

I've seen a lot of 'why do Arsenal always sell their best players' complaints doing the rounds and I think it's the wrong question. It's clear why we sell to me. We sell because our best players are ambitious and after awhile with us they decide that their ambition can't be met at Arsenal. Rather than let them run down their contract (RvP & Sanchez), or go through off season after off season with Barcelona taping up Fabregas they sell them. 

This begs the question, why do these players think their ambition can't be met and how can the club change to deliver it.

I'm actually not that disappointed with this deal like you are AJC. We could have hung onto him for another 6 months but in that time he would have been even more of a negative influence on the team, and we would have got nothing out of him when he departed Instead we get a childhood Arsenal fan with strong pedigree who didn't quite repeat his Bundesliga form for United. Can Wenger help him recover his form? Hopefully, he did this to an extent with Sanchez after Barcelona deemed him surplus to requirements. Is Mkhitaryan an equal to Sanchez? Of course not. But if you look at our squad and our quality in midfield and striker positions he's got to be on par with JW10 and Ramsey, ahead of Xhaka, Elneny, Perez, Giroud, Welbeck, and Iwobi.

Ultimately the board and the owners are responsible for these issues around ambition but until we solve them I don't see our approach to transfers changing.

Selling them to United is a kick in the teeth though.

Who is the "childhood Arsenal fan?" The guy who also said it was childhood dream come true when he joined Dortmund and again when he joined United? It's clever PR speak in an initial interview but let's not pretend the guy has ever given the club a second thought before. The failure want in this deal specifically. It was in allowing this situation to occur when the club has ore than enough resources to show the ambition to keep our top players. Ozil is likely to join Sanchez in the summer and we'll be going through all this again with Ramsey next season before his contact is up next summer. Rinse and repeat until the club's leadership changes.

But if we were just going to sell instead of hold onto him anyway we should have taken City's money in the summer instead of settling for yet another United reserve. In all likelihood he's the free replacement for Ozil anyway.

The more money thing is not as clear cut as you think. I saw that Arsenal had offered him $300k a week and United simply matched that. And when you take an ambitious squad / club wanting to rid the ghosts from after since SAF left, you have a better offer. 

It was simply a matter of timing that Mkhitaryan was out of form and out of the team, so its definitely an upgrade from a United point of view and a downgrade for Arsenal. 

Maybe if the board and manager showed more ambition and direction then players would stay. For me it speaks volumes that Spurs keep hold of their best players when Liverpool and Arsenal cant - all because there is a clear direction and plan. (Maybe when they go a few more years without winning much, that may change)

In the last 5 and a bit seasons Arsenal have lost Sanchez and RVP (any other best players I've missed?) while Tottenham have lost Modric, Bale as well as PFA right-back of the year Walker, I'd say Spurs have it worst or at least just as bad.

I suppose when you look at the next half a season after that, Arsenal lost Fabregas, Nasri and Clichy so it depends where you draw the line. On the other side, since Bale in 13/14, Spurs' only major loss has been Walker and that was crazy money for a fullback. 

Spurs sold Bale and Modric to overseas clubs, not domestic rivals. Giving Sanchez to United solidifies both their place inside the top 4 and ours outside of it.

True but that wasn't the point of the post I was replying to.

I don't necessarily agree Spurs had it worse when their sales didn't strengthen the teams around then. Even Liverpool as the other club who struggle to keep their stars tend to make sure they go abroad. They refused to sell Suarez to us even when we met the release clause in the contract they agreed to as they saw us as a team they could catch if they held onto him, and then made sure he went abroad when they couldn't hold him any longer. We're the only club who regularly lets their players choose their destination.

Mkhitaryan has been given the number 7 shirt for the EPL but will need to wear a different number in the Europa League because Sanchez has already worn it. What a crazy rule.

So, now that the support structure is being established - who's our next manager?

"Giving Sanchez to United solidifies both their place inside the top 4 and ours outside of it."

Maybe. This year. Maybe. But it's still been 4 years since ManU actually did finish above us at all (easy to forget they were 6th just last season). They may spend and spend and spend, thus giving the impression of progress, but that's not worked yet for any Manager there but Ferguson - the only reason they're in the Champions League was their pathetically easy run in the Europa League last season (which our new player basically won for them). If they win nothing this season, but get top 4, that's no achievement at all - provided they're being held to at least the same standards we have over the last 10 years. 

Spurs, please, they are in a dire situation with their playing squad in terms of long-term retention. It will all come to a head in the next season. They are in virtually the same situation we were back in 2008 (except their stadium isn't actually built yet). Just missed out on trophies, overall playing well, but with a young, ambitious, and (crucially) underpaid, squad. They all want more, to a man, and Spurs can't pay any of them what other clubs can, in the short term at least. They have always lost their best players, for years, and have won virtually nothing. Yes dial back the clock so that we can include Fabregas and Nasri, but keep dialling people. Sol Campbell, Michael Carrick, Dimitar Berbatov, Robbie Keane (all sold to major domestic rivals); they've always struggled to keep their big guys, they have done very well to only lose Walker thus far this season.

And when they lost Bale, they replaced "Elvis with the Beatles" - remember that? Where are the "Beatles" now? LOL! We just replaced Sanchez with Mhkitaryan. Better deal by a country mile. 

They've had Rose having a big whinge about pay this season, Dier and Alderweireld seem like they're definitely leaving. Eriksen, Kane and Alli have been rumoured for big moves in the past year, and that will only ramp up as their contract lengths keep coming down.  

If they have more than TWO of Dier, Alderweireld, Kane, Alli and Eriksen still on the books 2 years from now I'll eat my hat. 

And although a sentence like this looks compelling;

"Arsenal lost Fabregas, Nasri and Clichy so it depends where you draw the line. On the other side, since Bale in 13/14, Spurs' only major loss has been Walker and that was crazy money for a fullback." 

It's worth looking at a proper comparison. Fabregas and Clichy each spent 8 years at Arsenal, were in the invincibles, played in the champions league final etc. If Kane, Alli, Dier, Alderwiereld or Eriksen spend anywhere near 8 years at Spurs and win the league, and then leave, that would be a success right? Yet it was a failure for us. Shows the different standards being applied. 

We beat ourselves up at Arsenal because we expect more than what we get, and that's because our Manager has won things before, and has actually been the best once upon a time. It's the same at ManU when they don't win - they've won forever, so not winning is a new thing, and it's not nice. Spurs don't have that at all. They don't win trophies, their Manager has never won trophies. That's why everybody gives them the little child treatment "arent they doing well", "wow they only lost walker", etc etc. If that was Arsenal, we'd be failing by not winning the league, and failing because we lost our fullback. 

Sorry but that is incorrect. 

Reports suggest he's in excess of 400k per week, and Wenger quite clearly stated in a press conference that Arsenal offered they most they could, but that it fell quite some way short of what ManU were offering. 

I think the behaviour of our players since Sanchez has left has verified the press reports of his negative influence in the dressing room. 

I've seen two words of goodbye from Mustafi on twitter, but nothing from any other players so far. Contrast that with the heartfelt messages Theo and Le Coq got from many many players, instantly after being announced. 

More accurate report say he is on par with Pogba at around $300k. But inflate it all you want, if you want to have / keep the best players these days, you have to pay them. I would hope that that if Arsenal wanted to keep him so what would you imagine the maximum would be?

As per a previous post, yes the amounts are far too high - but they are market rates. 

Whatever the actual figures, and your spin on it now, you said that ManU offered him the same as Arsenal, which is obviously wrong. ManU are definitely paying him more than what Arsenal could apparently offer, and even more than what Man City were willing to offer. 

I didn't inflate it either, FYI. Some reports claim it's in excess of 500k.

I think your 300k figure is a serious case of deflating it. The consensus seems to be that it's much higher than that. 

You are certainly one of the haters.     Diddums. 

Agree here Tekkers, this was more the point I was making. Regardless of his motivation for signing at United, the fact we are an absolute mess with little ambition is the more pressing matter.

As for us expecting to challenge, I don't base it on having had success in the past. I base it on having the highest season ticket prices in London, one of the worlds highest paid managers and a move to a new stadium sold as the solution to compete with Europe's best. 

My solution: Sign Jack Wilshere up as captain, get a new DM, Winger, CB and GK. Appoint a new manager, get Usmanov in as owner and make the bottom tier terracing. Easy.

Agree with all of that except bringing in Usmanov. That is one unsavoury character. 

However I'm no fan of Kroenke at all, biggest problem with our club right now imo. So I don't know what the answer is. 

Kroenke has just increased his stake overnight. He's not going anywhere as long as he can still buy ranches and fund hunting channels.