Things that piss you off...

Neither were half the people making comments.

Heaven forbid if a chant was ever used by the Yellow Fever that associated a Greek Player with Fush & Chups!!!! ?

(Apologies for any reference to the make believe land that some delusionals think they may ascend to once they have shuffled off this mortal coil!!)

Just to be politically correct & balancing all sides of the argument...

What pisses me off is people getting all high & mighty about a joke that has been taken out of context, whilst an orange lunatic has his finger on the button that could trigger nuclear Armageddon, is rascist against citizens of his own country, wants to arm teachers to stop gun violence, is derogatory on all manner of levels to women, plus many other things to get pissed off about. 

(I make no apologies to the supporters of Mr Drumpf. Are you getting what you voted for? )

Perfectly balanced now!! ?

As I said, it was not so much the joke but the aggressive reaction after someone told you they found it offensive. 

Offence is subjective, what doesn’t offend you does offend someone else. You made what someone considered to be an inappropriate joke, they told you as much. It should’ve ended there, but you tried involving people by aggressively grabbing them, being threatening and generally overreacted by being aggressive toward everyone around you. 

Not only that but you then come on the forums and call two people you were aggressive toward by name and call them cocksuckers and snowflakes. 

In my opinion you really need to look at your reaction here, and decide if it was constructive or destructive. Leggy said this has been blown way out of proportion, and I agree - but it has been done so by you. 

That's a real nice strawman you have there but remember the threats of violence you freely admit to making? and the homophobia? and the many many other abusive comments you spouted?

If you want to try and hide behind one just one of your comments that people felt like repeating you go right ahead but I for one simply feel sad watching a man I once considered a friend spiral out of control. 

I think this has been discussed more than enough and we should leave the incident be before it turns into a full blown slinging match. But I'll leave that decision to the guys that actually do the modding around here.

So people should let you, Kiwi Hatter, off just because we are all in a perceived state of imminent nuclear annihilation? 

You still threatened at least one person's life. You don't want to seem to take any responsibility for that or any of your other actions, seems to be always someone else's fault. 

Can I just point out that I was there. I didn't hear the gay comment but I did hear the Indian comment and I considered it mean-spirited and stupid considering that Roy and Sarpreet are two of our best players. Balbi is a cool guy for stepping up and making it clear that neither of those were on.

Can I also point out that if KH had just shut up, enjoyed the rest of the game, and then not whined about it here; no-one would be talking about it anymore. This is about KH wanting a safe space to say whatever he liked at the football and no-one to call him on it, and then crying on the forum the day after to try to get sympathy. It's throwing toys out of the pram.

And the person suggesting that anti-Aussie chants are "racist" is straw-manning and trying to muddy the waters.

I think this sums up best what occurred - not that I was there. But from what I've read over the last few days it seems the offence was taken at the joke and KH's reaction to said offence is what has escalated this so dramatically. I don't get where you (KH) think that threatening to physically harm someone is the best (smartest) way to end an verbal conflict?

No attempt to muddy anything here Doloras, and you can address me directly if you like. 

Lets just say xenophobic instead of racist to appease you, if you're ok with that. 

I'm not straw-manning anything, I was very clear as to exactly what I was saying, and what I wasn't saying - I was not supporting KH by any means, and agree with almost all comments against him in this thread (for the billionth time). 

There is no attempt to muddy any water, this thread is not about this incident exclusively, it's about "things that p*ss you off", and it p*ssed me off that the australian chant was viewed as absolutely fine, despite being xenophobic in a very similar way to the Singh comment made by KH. 

You can dismiss that point of view if you like, but it is telling that you haven't offered any kind of rational explanation as to how it might be wrong. I'd at least appreciate that rather than a dismissive comment without any factual basis. 

Okay, let's say xenophobic, which is a completely different kettle of fish. Two points:

1) There is a difference between punching up and punching down. The Nix play in an Aussie league which is biased in various ways towards the Aussie teams and which keeps threatening to kick us out. Therefore I don't see an issue. However, if any Aussie who plays for the Nix (eg our captain who was born there) were to take offence, I would at that point agree with ending the chant.

2) Is it xenophobia (or its younger cousin, parochialism) when we do chants mocking Auckland? As a Wellingtonian who lives and has her family in Auckland, I don't feel comfortable joining in such chants but I don't think they're tantamount to racism.

3) In the run-up to the NZ-Peru fixtures, Balbi posted some hilarious memes on his twitter page mocking various Peruvian foods, cultural items, and Paddington Bear. Was that xenophobia or was that good-natured banter?

Good points. 

In isolation they are worth answering first:

1) Agree re: a person taking offence. If Dura was to say something, then of course the chant would stop. I assume that we are also just taking it for granted that Sarpreet Singh takes offence to KH's comment? Because we're already outraged now, prior to finding that out, so I gather we have to assume that to be true, for your comment above to be relevant in this comparison. 

The Nix in the A-League comments have no factual basis however. When the chant was first sung at a Nix game in 2007, they weren't threatening to kick us out at all, and we didn't perceive at that time that the league was biased towards Aussie teams. In fact when we signed Brown I recall discussions as to how things might actually be to our advantage, as we could have our pick of most of the AWs due to the import rules for Aussie clubs. This feeling has changed now, but at the time of the club's inception, what you state as a justification for the chant did not actually exist. 

2) Yes it is, by definition. And it's telling that you don't feel comfortable with it - we can use that as justification for the Auckland chant being inappropriate in the post-modernist world we live in. 

3) Yes again, by definition.

And it's awesome that you have raised those two examples, because this comes back to my question from earlier:

Where do we draw the line, why do we draw the line there exactly, and who draws the line? 

It's clear from your comments and most others (including me), that comments about Indian people and dairies is a crossing of the line. But now we hear that comments about people from Auckland, Australia or Peru and things that NZers attach them with, are not crossing the line.

Why? Is the dairy-owning thing the clincher? Too mean? How is calling all australians cheaters any less mean than that??? Or is that one ok because it's been chanted all over the world, subbing in something else for Aussies? That might actually be a good reason come to think of it - the chant is generic, thus making it less offensive to whomever is the butt of the joke on the day? That's actually a far better reason than anyone else has offered thus far! Although it doesn't fly for the Auckland and Peru points, particularly when you have stated that you're mildly offended by the Auckland one (sorry if that's not what you mean by uncomfortable). 

Amazing what actual discussion can do, rather than outright dismissal... it's certainly got me thinking!

https://www.a-league.com.au/news/hyundai-a-league-...

Indians, Aussies, Aucklanders and Peruvians alike!

“Crying on the forum the day after to try to get sympathy” 

That is your opinion, it is however, not why I posted it.

It pissed me off, that is why I posted it in the thread “Things That Piss You Off”

The PC Brigade are pissed off with me, do I give a flying FUCK? No!

It's genuinely sad that you've spiralled out of control like this, Hatter.

Not at all, Christo. I just feel that reacting to a comment that was intended as humour, is not really that important in the bigger scheme of things. 

I did not threaten NZ_Daves life, he over-dramatically claimed I had grabbed him aggressively. Go back & read what was claimed I said. 

I'm just surprised at how large and diverse Hatters group of friends is.

So am I !! ?

So are you saying that only gay men suck cocks?

You need to get out more Patrick!

I'm just going out to get some more popcorn.

KH, I've re-read this several times, still seems like a threat to someones life. I guess I'm reading it wrong though huh? Or you forget about this bit?

Mad Hatters plan

How to temporarily shut down an argument with a sharkty meme

You're not wrong. That is an awful meme.

KH - you're on here saying you don't care what people think. If that's the case, why are you commenting?

Because the PC BULLSHIT pisses me off. 

And that is the purpose of this thread, is it not?

Could you expand on this statement?

What is it you are trying to say?

so its PC bullshark to call out some one who says something offensive? or is it PC Bullshark to call out physical threats as a dick move?

It is a real sad day when this kind thing happens between fellow members of a supporters group that used to be, in my opinion, a tight knit group.

I always find it amusingly ironic that people get massively upset about people getting mildly upset.

“Used to be” - that is the critical point!

He took offence at people taking offence.

you mean like your corner shop joke “Used to be” acceptable but it isn't anymore as it's racist?

The corner shop ' joke ' is probably 50 years old. I first heard it when an ex AW( who also happened to be of Indian decent) told me this. When I  stopped laughing he said and if you mess me around I will come and live next door to you. 

In those days we did not have the PC brigade.

I am sitting on the fence on this but I cannot see what part of that comment is racist.

Asian drivers in Auckland are shocking. Is that racist? 

That’s all fine. Debate about whether a joke is appropriate or not is natural, people find different things funny/inappropriate/racist in different contexts and based on different prejudices/biases/backgrounds. Offence is subjective.

You can’t expect to be able to say what you want without ever being challenged on it though. If you make a joke that someone finds inappropriate, they’re allowed to challenge you on it. In fact, that can be healthy if a respectable debate comes from it. Or just agree to disagree and carry on with watching the football match. 

What isn’t ok is getting aggressive when someone challenges you on what they perceive to be inappropriate remark. Then physically grabbing people who aren’t even involved, then threatening them when they disagree with you or say something as simple as “it was a bit racist”

Furthermore it isn’t ok to (a full day later) call people out by name on a forum and continue to abuse them. 

As I said earlier: look at your reaction and decide whether it was constructive or destructive. Maybe learn from the experience, and move on. That goes for everyone involved. 

I think it’s got to the point now where everyone has aired their views and said their bit now. Don’t want this to turn into an ugly slinging match. 

That is nonsense. It is more a fact.

It is a fact it is racist.