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Central League Thread

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah, but that is because they have huge media and sponsor investment in this country which football clearly doesn't.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Smithy again when it comes to what is happing inside Olympic you have no idea, if they were to get the dollars from the �Greek Community� as you seem to think, then they would be one of the riches club around.

 

I take it that the �Greek Community� that you are referring to are the old boys (ex-players) who have a few dollars, well, ever tried to get blood out of a stone, that is what it is like to get dosh from them.

 

Olympic have at least 3 major functions which generate most of their income, go along to one and you will count the �Greeks� on one hand.

 

Wairarapa, well that is a different case, they have a wealthy man with contacts and who are prepared to buy either success of survival.

 

Pay the dosh and your club will not end up as Stokes Valley.

 

I don�t believe that there a club in either the Premier or the CL that players are not getting some kind of incentive, be it no subs, boots, win bonus, or fines paid, may be I am wrong.

 

critter2010-04-13 14:45:24
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
critter wrote:

Smithy again when it comes to what is happing inside Olympic you have no idea, if they were to get the dollars from the �Greek Community� as you seem to think, then they would be one of the riches club around.

 

I take it that the �Greek Community� that you are referring to are the old boys (ex-players) who have a few dollars, well, ever tried to get blood out of a stone, that is what it is like to get dosh from them.

 

Olympic have at least 3 major functions which generate most of their income, go along to one and you will count the �Greeks� on one hand.

 

Wairarapa, well that is a different case, they have a wealthy man with contacts and who are prepared to buy either success of survival.

 

Pay the dosh and your club will not end up as Stokes Valley.

 

I don�t believe that there a club in either the Premier or the CL that players are not getting some kind of incentive, be it no subs, boots, win bonus, or fines paid, may be I am wrong.

 
Critter you must be on the sauce again.
 
I was complimenting Olympic.
 
What you described is exactly what I mean by "Greek community".  They run functions, they fundraise, they tap up businesses (they have a new second team shirt sponsor this year for example).  All of this is good work and if they then want to spend that cash on Raf de Gregorio then I can't see how anyone can complain about it.
 
The point is that they are not wasting gaming machine CHARITY money on player payments.
 
 
Smithy2010-04-13 14:52:26

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

�Because with Olympic it's (generally speaking) the Greek community's money they spend�, If that is a complement, then at least get your facts correct first.

 

Only a very small percent of Olympics dosh comes from the GC, If the GC had its way it would close up Olympic and use the income to support it own ventures, like icons for the church (they tried that in the 80�s).

 

Smithy, where in your post that I replied to, is anything like what you are now saying about.   �They run functions, they fundraise, they tap up businesses (they have a new second team shirt sponsor this year for example).  All of this is good work and if they then want to spend that cash on Raf de Gregorio then I can't see how anyone can complain about it �

 

I know I am getting old but I am not a mind reader to take your original post to mean what you are now saying.

 

Have a happy day.

 
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C'mon Critter.  You know I love a Greek.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Which one ?
 
Definitely Johnny Gerondis.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd have no problem with players being paid if
 
(a)  They were required to do something other than turn up on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday (and incidentally no-one who misses training should be getting paid - surely that's what it's for) - i.e similar to the "club pro" concept that cricket/tennis/golf etc run
 
(b) They were not being paid out of pokie money earmarked for equipment related to amateur sport
 
(c) All payments were above board and the climate of innuendo around the game disappeared, subject to usual employer/employee confidentiality arrangements
 
It is the unrestrained and unregulated (and in some cases illegal)  nature of the current systemt that is a disgrace

Normo's coming home

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
I'd have no problem with players being paid if
 
(a)  They were required to do something other than turn up on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday (and incidentally no-one who misses training should be getting paid - surely that's what it's for) - i.e similar to the "club pro" concept that cricket/tennis/golf etc run
 
(b) They were not being paid out of pokie money earmarked for equipment related to amateur sport
 
(c) All payments were above board and the climate of innuendo around the game disappeared, subject to usual employer/employee confidentiality arrangements
 
It is the unrestrained and unregulated (and in some cases illegal)  nature of the current systemt that is a disgrace
CF are meant to have a sealed copy of all players contracts. These are only to be opened if there is a dispute between the club and the player.
Just wouldn't you want to open them to find the co$$t of the big travel league.
 
Dependant also on the amount paid the IRD would like to have the wee chat to some players and clubs. The rules changed a few years back. Which clubs have kept up to date on this?????
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think smithy got it right.  And again we go down this "paid players" scenario every year.  I am part of the Wairarapa united setup and I dont care what Phil does with his millions.  I think this year, with the introduction of so many non local players, it does have benefits for 1 club in being Masterton.  Having owning its own ground (Hullena Park) and with Wairarapa United based there now, the bar revenue has increased because the public want to stick around and watch good football.  Also with the amount of sponsors the Masterton club has picked up by having WU there is amazing.  The club owe 7k on their morgage and the facilities are valued at approx 750k.  So the more players Phil buys, the more people come along to watch, and so on.  Ok we havent started well, but it is early.  If you are clive palmer / terry serepisos and want to spend your money then do it. 
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TSMA - I will make the point again that it creates an unhealthy situation where to compete in AMATEUR football clubs are required to spend money, that money either being acquired through gmabling trusts or from subs paying members, and almost certainly could be put to better use.
 
Paying to play club football should not mean you subsisdise payments to players in higher teams and neither should money you stick in the pokes go into people's pockets
 

Normo's coming home

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Before you crucify all local clubs with a TAX audit.
Please use "reimbursement for costs", not paid.

THE IRD WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY - MOST CLUBS WOULD CLOSE THEIR DOORS.

They did it with Motorsport some years ago and all income from "PRIZE" money had to be justified by the cost to compete. big time waster.
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hogster wrote:
Before you crucify all local clubs with a TAX audit.
Please use "reimbursement for costs", not paid.

THE IRD WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY - MOST CLUBS WOULD CLOSE THEIR DOORS.

They did it with Motorsport some years ago and all income from "PRIZE" money had to be justified by the cost to compete. big time waster.
 
I'm not an accountant but I think if they were reimbursing expenses rather than simply making payments then the club would have to keep a record of those expenses.
 
And I bet that doesn't happen!
 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wtfnz wrote:
CF are meant to have a sealed copy of all players contracts. These are only to be opened if there is a dispute between the club and the player.
 
Really?
 
I'd be really interested if that's the case.  Can you point me to the rule that requires that?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Hogster wrote:
Before you crucify all local clubs with a TAX audit.
Please use "reimbursement for costs", not paid.

THE IRD WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY - MOST CLUBS WOULD CLOSE THEIR DOORS.

They did it with Motorsport some years ago and all income from "PRIZE" money had to be justified by the cost to compete. big time waster.
 
I'm not an accountant but I think if they were reimbursing expenses rather than simply making payments then the club would have to keep a record of those expenses.
 
And I bet that doesn't happen!
 
 
 
If contracts are signed it is probably likely that the players are therefore deemed  contractors to the club and therefore the income they receive for carrying out the duties of their contracts would be taxable and any expenses incurred in deriving that income (boots, petrol etc) would be deductible.
 
I dont know why the clus would close their doors. . . most clubs i assume would be breaking even on a yearly basis so that they had no tax to pay. . . the tax liability lies with the players.
Mapple2010-04-14 10:27:16
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mapple wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Hogster wrote:
Before you crucify all local clubs with a TAX audit.
Please use "reimbursement for costs", not paid.

THE IRD WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY - MOST CLUBS WOULD CLOSE THEIR DOORS.

They did it with Motorsport some years ago and all income from "PRIZE" money had to be justified by the cost to compete. big time waster.
 
I'm not an accountant but I think if they were reimbursing expenses rather than simply making payments then the club would have to keep a record of those expenses.
 
And I bet that doesn't happen!
 
 
 
If contracts are signed it is probably likely that the players are therefore deemed  contractors to the club and therefore the income they receive for carrying out the duties of their contracts would be taxable and any expenses incurred in deriving that income (boots, petrol etc) would be deductible.
 
I dont know why the clus would close their doors. . . most clubs i assume would be breaking even on a yearly basis so that they had no tax to pay. . . the tax liability lies with the players.
 
That is a very shonky summary of the law relating to employment contracts.
 
However, you're probably right as to that being the situation currently and unless a player challenged their status as a contractor then it probably wouldn't change.
 
Assuming most players have real jobs as well (and don't have clever accountants working for them) they'd be liable for secondary tax too.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah well i was obviously making the assumption that players would be classified as contractors. 
 
However, there would probably be an equally weighted argument that they are employees of the club - I dont know the details . . . these contracts are sealed apparently
 
There is an exemption for prize money received which is less than $500 - maybe win bonuses could fall into this exemption as i dont think many players would get more than $500 win bonuses per game.
 
But the lump sums received would more than likely be subject to tax. 
Mapple2010-04-14 11:35:29
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What does it being sealed or not sealed have to do with it? 
 
In fact, what does it being sealed actually mean?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
My understanding is also that a copy of the contracts are held with CF incase of a dispute. The players are contractors to the club as such it is up to the individuals to show within their tax returns that they have recieved money from what ever source it is. Any club contract I have seen out lines this fact that it is up to the individual to pay their own tax provisions.
In regard to payment I think there is a lot of mis information around about what people get paid I know for a fact that some of the numbers spouted off in regard to a particular club were exagerated by 300%. As a young 17 year old (25 odd years ago now) I recieved money for playing its not new and it will never go away so why do we always end up on this topic? As they say "build a bridge and get over it".
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think it's the lack of transparency that makes it a talking point, as James Dean said above.
 
I am fairly certain Capital Football do not hold copies of any contracts and I'm very interested in where that theory comes from?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I do agree that it's a pretty boring topic though.
 
More interestingly, Miramar vs Olympic this Sunday. No Jenkins for Miramar - he's serving a suspension.
 
Who's picking what?
 
I reckon Bubbles 2-1, purely because they're on a good roll.
 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
I think it's the lack of transparency that makes it a talking point, as James Dean said above.
�

I am fairly certain Capital Football do not hold copies of any contracts and I'm very interested in where that theory comes from?


I remember reading the Central Football regulations a few years ago and it was definitely in there. No idea if it is still around.
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wow.. if i ever want some more interesting reading then i will come here.. tax laws,accountant, sponsorship,contracts.....
 
should this topic be renamed???
 
 
what about the football....
is it that bad that there is nothing interesting to talk about?
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If a contract is performance based i.e. win/appearance bonus, the player can transfer without the club having any hold on him other than for gear, contract lodged or not.

 

In the event of a player wishing to transfer and has been paid a �fee�, the transfer can not be held up on the grounds that "he/she owes money" to the club, unless the contract has been lodged with the federation.

 
If the club wants the dollars back then it becomes a civil matter,(will a club go to court and show that it is paying players)

 

In the last ten years as far as I can remember there were only about 5 such contracts ever lodged with Capital Soccer.

 

If there is a dispute then the envelope is opened, at the end of the season contracts must be returned unopened to the clubs concerned.

 

In my time I had to release two players who owed large sums of money but the club concerned had not lodged the contract.

 

SNZ will only look at a dispute if there is a contact correctly lodged otherwise it is bye-bye.

 

critter2010-04-14 15:49:24
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
neilwgtn wrote:
wow.. if i ever want some more interesting reading then i will come here.. tax laws,accountant, sponsorship,contracts.....
 
should this topic be renamed???
 
 
what about the football....
is it that bad that there is nothing interesting to talk about?
 
I'm sure the football banter will pick up as the end of the week approaches.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
I do agree that it's a pretty boring topic though.
�

More interestingly, Miramar vs Olympic this Sunday. No Jenkins for Miramar - he's serving a suspension.

�

Who's picking what?

�

I reckon Bubbles 2-1, purely because they're on a good roll.

�

�


Should be a decent game I havent seen Olympic play this season but cant argue with 3 from 3 and this game tends to always be a good one as both clubs dislike one another with a passion. Jenkins is a massive lose for Mirimar hes been quality in the first 2 games which I saw but I missed the Palmy game heard he scored after 5 mins then got sent off after 10 mins. Any Team Wellington players coming in for either side?
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If Allen Chote comes back into the squad I'm offer odds of $1.02 that he'll get sent off, even if he doesn't start and only plays the last ten.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bubbles don't have any TW players.
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Neither do the Mafia.  Possibly Drapes I hear, but only possibly.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
reckon it will be a banger of a game.....

mar will be organised defensively ... i pick a 2 -2 draw


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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think the bubbles have a fantastic line up same basic team from the last few years with a couple of newbies picking a 4-2 win to the bubbles.
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Be interesting to see who gets appointed to ref it.  I'm picking Jamie Cross.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm sure Olympic won't be complaining if it is.
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Expecting Petone to pick up their first points this weekend. Surely they can't play as badly as they did the last two weeks again.
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tough away trip to Park Island. 
 
Picks for the weekend:
 
SATURDAY 17 APRIL:
Tawa                 1    Wairarapa United     2SUNDAY 18 APRIL:
Olympic              _2_    Miramar Rangers      _2_
Napier City Rovers   _1_    Petone               _1_
Team Taranaki        _1_    Lower Hutt City      _3_
Palm Nth Marist      _1_    Western Suburbs      _4_

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Wairarapa selection dilemna (maybe they could bolster their second team so it stops languishing in Capital 3!) http://www.times-age.co.nz/sport/news/wealth-of-talent-waiting/3912593/

I love this bit though "There is no question, however, that of the two teams Wairarapa United have had much the tougher row to hoe to date with their defeats coming at the hands of the three teams rated as most likely to win the central league title ... Palmerston North Marist, Miramar Rangers and Olympic."

Palmy rated as most likely to win league??? Wasn't it only 4 weeks ago they were odds on 3 way favs to come last with Taranaki and maybe Tawa?
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
thelastnomad wrote:
Wairarapa selection dilemna (maybe they could bolster their second team so it stops languishing in Capital 3!) http://www.times-age.co.nz/sport/news/wealth-of-talent-waiting/3912593/

Try capital 4, they were relegated after last season. 

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Wests haven't gone that flash yet. Surely the Palmy darkhorse must be a chance to keep winning at home.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nah, last week's result a freak one and they beat Wairarapa when they had all their players away playing NZFC.  Wests for sure.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tawa to beat Wairarapa 2-1... Olympic and Palmy to go down...Tawa to be joint top at the end of the round!
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