CF Governance

This chat needs to go in a separate topic. 

The marketing statements made about futsal are pretty spurious and not at all supported with science. They just trot out the names of some famous players who played futsal.

On the flip side, there's some easily digestible logic about futsal improving technique that seems to make sense.

In Wellington, there were a couple of private leagues doing okay. Then NZF came in, centralised everything, and it seems to have diminished. The theory that it would take off because we have shit weather here and futsal is indoor doesn't really seem to have been borne out. There are a lot of factors at play there though. 

The great irony is that NZF (and Capital Football) took it on hoping to make money from it, but the opposite has happened.

It has cost a crapload so far which has been paid for by clubs (sub paying club players) essentially. Yet futsal is hardly ever club based and the drive to get players (teenagers especially) actually reduces the number of outdoor club playing players.

Elite futsal must cost a fair chunk and I'd say clubs end up being stung for that too.

It's an important issue. As is FTC as that is going in the same direction. These issues are national as it is NZF laying the framework for them.

Bringing it back to governance. 

There is a distinction between governing and offering football services. CF do both. Which is fine. But they need to be managed separately.

I actually think Richard Reid has a good handle on that distinction. He's eliminated a fair bit of cost from the futsal model.

As you say, NZF require the feds do this, which makes it trickier.

"NZF/Capital took it on trying to make money from it". That's pretty much the same view we have in Mainland. But that's the wrong premise to start with, isn't it? So if any evaluation on futsal's worth is measured against that, we're talking apples and oranges.

I understand there is a big push for football clubs to take on futsal, but I see some massive hurdles there; and think the strategy is doomed - the comments on this thread thus far pretty much tell you the reasons why. Personally think a different model is needed - more the European thing where there are football, futsal, handball, netball, basketball arms of a sporting club; but that's for another thread somehwhere sometime.

I agree with Feverish that futsal, FTC etc are coming from NZF as part of a nationally driven framework, tied into WOF presumably. However if any of those initiatives have income as their driving objective, we need to think again.

Agree.

I really like playing and watching futsal. But it isn't football

1 session a week won't cover 75% attendance requirement: unless there only is one!

Capital cannot not come to some sort of arrangement with the Phoenix academy. Problem is, it will set a precedent.

some good points guys and i hope CF is putting there thinking caps on.

Indoor soccer has been played in many forms for years and so Futsal i think is a trade mark so FIFA can collect cash off every player who plays there version…..

to me it is all about affiliation fees from as many players as possible and the people not playing Futsal but other indoor football leagues (there are heaps more than playing futsal ) don't pay any affiliation fees…. and the provider runs it at a profit not a loss.

the commitment to the ASB is also a decision that needs reviewing and i thought it was as per last AGM?

please don't take this too seriously but.

i was on the turps with a non football friend who is a bit of a geek some would say and some other non football types and our conversation turned to the WSA/CF/NZF situation and my friends comments and spin on the situations was quite unusual and so i thought i would share for comment and amusement .

He likened the situation to the star wars series and it goes basically like this( abbreviated as i don't have 2 hours like last night)

1. The republic(WSA) was democratic and guarded by elders who were wise and did there best to be fair and just to all in the republic (WSA)

2. The Republic was taken down from the inside with the help of the Sith and others so the hope of the masses went to supporting the move to the Empire (federation CF/NZF)

3. the empire now has total control and the members of the old republic now are stamped out one by one if they do not conform to the will of the new empire builders

there was heaps more similarities from the movies but my brain is a bit fuzzy this morning as the Hurricane's  actually won a game.

i do remember that we had not made it to episode 4 A NEW HOPE when the gathering stopped and we departed so lets hope we have a luke skywalker somewhere in football to save us from the empire.

please refer to start of this post and enjoy the weekend and i do hope sunday is toped off with a win from the boys at the tin can

This may not be the right thread.

Can anyone tell me why in the junior grades this year there are now school teams in the 13th and 14th grades. I thought the rules were that the schools could not have a school team for any player younger than 15.

Have heard some schools are telling their players they have to play for school, and are putting the13/14year olds in the 15 grade.

Is this just another case of Capital football CHANGING OR IGNORING THE RULES AGAIN!   or are they just bowing down to college sport once again. Before long I can see that capital football will hand over all college aged players to college sport. 

Hmmm! do they work for the clubs or college sport.

I wonder if CF have botherd to talk to the other codes,rugby and cricket to see how this has gone for them! From what I have heard it has been disasterous.Player development in most schools is very poor and player retention is an even bigger problem.Most schools don't have the grounds,facilities,gear and definately not quality coaches. The maths teacher or a dad roped in is not necessarily going to have the skills to develop players.

Has any of the clubs noticed that we don't seem to be getting the players back into the football clubs once the leave school since they have stopped CF grades from 15 upwards. These arent the top players who are playing 1st teams, its the ones who play in the next grades down.

Wgtn College formed a football club some years ago and joined CF. Don't know if others have done it this year.

I must admit I take a bit of offence to the comment about school coaches. I'm a coach of a school team and I have my youth level 2 award complete and soon going to finish my senior level 1. So not all are shit.

But beside that, I know with school I coach at, they don't hold registrations till after clubs have had theirs. There is no requirement at this stage for kids to have to play for there club. They can choose to play for the school.

There is a big problem of club vs school and I don't think it'll ever be sorted as schools will never give up football completely to let boys play club and clubs will never give up the kids to schools.

I know a lot of boys also play both, school Saturday and then either under 17s or seniors if good enough for clubs.

Best would almost be like what girls at and midweek schools and weekend clubs and can choose who to play for if don't want to play both.

Its hardly a new thing schools playing in junior leagues. I know St Bernards have had teams in Capital Footballs junior grades since 2006 and in 2008 St Bernards, Aotea and Rathkeale all played in JPL.

Actually there is some assessment to the level 1. I have also been coaching for 14 years so like to think I am a good coach. The fact that school coaches was written off is what annoyed me.

Same could be said for clubs as most of the coaches are just parents also it would really only be at the higher levels of men's and JPL that you'll find the good coaches. So it was just trying to explain that not all school coaches are just the maths teacher.

Anyway, another season is about to kick off and school teams are in club competitions. St Bernard's has had a team in Capital Football for a while because they start at year 7 there and some boys choose to play for the school which is allowed.

It's a perennial issue. There is no easy solution. But a start would be for someone to write some rules and actually apply them...

Question time...  I have finally taken the time out to read through the full version of the Central League regs for 2014.  I have a couple of quick questions that I am hoping someone might be able to help me out with:

Reg 5.5  Teamcards shall be in the hands of The Manager by 5pm of the Thursday following the match. Any teamcard received after this day will incur a fine of $50. If the missing team card is not received during the following week, an additional fine of $100 will be incurred. Teamcards may be faxed initially, and then posted.
Is this correct?  A faxed (or scanned) version is not sufficient?

Reg 7.1  Referee Reimbursements for all CL fixtures are included in the entry fee. 
I understand that due to this reg that Central League fees have gone up.  Will the CL Clubs referee fees then go down by this same figure?

Thanks Feverish.
Jeez - so if they have already been included ...  how do they justify CL fees going up $800+?
That's like each women's team paying an extra $57 a game!  So suddenly 'ref' costs have gone up an extra $114 per game!  I doubt this $ is actually going to the refs...
How did CF explain this one do you know?

Just pay the players slightly less, that should cover it. 

For a womens team - are you serious? ha

I haven't heard an explanation of the cost rise. If refs are a factor then it can't be the sole reason. 

I think it is pretty hard to gauge the cost of CL. Refs is probably one of the easier costs to pick. Harder ones would be the cost of time attributed to league admin and the comms (which are being increased with things such as weekly fixture pdfs). If it is a genuine stand-alone pool of money then even player fines would come into it and would thus be pretty hard to estimate. I'd say they would say they have calculated that they have been under charging in the past (which might be true).

Considering clubs still be the team sub on top of this - it is getting bloody expensive for clubs.

Unknown Quantity why don't you email someone at Cap Football. They do actually respond to reasonable questions. They also had an info evening for these type of questions. And potentially the AGM last week may have been informative (I couldn't attend so not sure what was covered)

RR at the information evening - CL entry fee increase (from memory) "Most of the increase is due to increases in the Ref fee but I do not have the exact breakdown" (Though he was on the CL committee). "You have to take into consideration you now have a womens team in Wanganui and a Mens team in P/North"  It was a few weeks ago!

Thanks Blew2.  I couldn't make the info evening - sounds as though I wouldn't have got much more info anyway... If someone on the Cl committee doesn't know the exact breakdown who would?

maybe you could read the minutes of the information meeting held at CF?

the questions you were unable to ask at the information evening but were asked by others and answered according to blew.2 should be in there so the information can be shared to people unable to get there.

or is this privileged information evening?