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Mainland Premier League

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over 12 years ago
Honest opinions with some facts to back them up, always appreciated. Not many coming from your direction at the moment. Just a lack of respect for your elders and betters maybe. Never mind I think it is the privilege of the young to make a fool of themselves occasionally. Keep reading you may learn something. Might be worth remembering this started with a smart remark from your young pal Vim.

 
And was carried right on by you, so save the holier than thou speech for someone else, along with your patronising verbal pat on the head for those disrespectful youngsters you dislike so much. Bad news PT, there are more folk younger than you than there are older, and the ratio will go up every day, (that's an opinion with facts to back it up in case you missed it) so a degree of understanding might get you further than the "grumpy old man who knows everything" routine you are currently spouting. 
 I will now stand by to get told off by everyone for actually buying into this crap. However, I believe internalising things is like poisoning ones self, so I vent. lol

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago

Hey everyone, before the mods step in, can we make sure we play the ball, rather than the man or woman please. It's a game. This is a fan forum.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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over 12 years ago
VimFuego wrote:
VimFuego wrote:
VimFuego wrote:

Is it written in the contract if you sign for Canty Utd you have to play for Tech?


Ha ha. Check with Mainland. They administer Canterbury Utd.

Is it right that if you sign for Coastal you automatically make the Pride squad?


Now now that's a bit random. You'd have to say the 9 of 16(?) players from Coastal in the Pride all deserve to be there, having also represented either NZ under 17/20, NZ secondary schools or full age NZ. So if your assumption is there is favouritism there I think you're a bit off the mark. 

My point, just to reiterate, comes down to money. I hate the fact that teams can buy players, or that players ask for money. I like the idea of cheering on a team that does it for the love of it. And it seems to roll on from Canty Utd (also not supposed to be paid....) that those wanting money go to Tech and Bays. If players come to a club because of expert coaching, facilities, atmosphere then sweet, but to buy a team, and not pay others, or subs and fundraising goes towards this, is it all worth it?

I definitely think there is favouritism there. How many of those players started with Coastal. How many joined because of the opportunity to be involved with then Canterbury coaches. How many joined because they saw Coastal as the way into The Pride. I include one of the coaches in that. You think we are all as naïve as you Vim.

In every country in the world the top level of all sports (particularly male) involve financial reward. One of the reasons we are still a backwater is that we (football) in New Zealand do not recognise that.

Tell me what happened to the Sporting Futures progam,  $600 worth of support offered to any young player across the city targeted by Coastal. Was not this how your squads were built? How do you justify that. I do not have to I thought it very professional. I did not like the fact that once again your own club players were ignored. Maybe why Parklands now have a bigger player base than Coastal.

I really think you should look at why you are involved with such double standards you should be in politics. 


Ouch.  

I think there is a difference to coming to a club for better coaching, prospects and culture than coming for the almighty dollar.  I have no problem with Tech as such, so don't take it too personally, however openly breaking rules regarding player payments, and then constantly sidestepping this fact is not only dishonest but cheating. 


In response to the accusation of favouritism in the Women's game I think the facts will speak for themselves. From memory of the many in the Pride squad, 2 players started at the Mighty New Brighton, and 2 others have only ever played for Coastal. 2 joined the club after the strange 'School of Football' and before they made the Pride squad. All of these became Pride players under previous coaches (not the Coastal ones) so the assumption of favouritism seems invalid. Only one player has come over (and why wouldn't you!) since making the Pride. I can't think of the other 2 but I'm sure there is nothing dodgy about it. 


Sporting Futures dates back many years, and was a carryover from Linfield who were doing things around the 'total athlete' such as nutrition and fitness etc. I don't think it was specifically football either. That wasn't how our squads were built. They have been built through countless ours of extra training by coaches, mainly to the elite however now we also do a participation group as well. Quite a few coming through from our 17s and PDL now too so it seems to be working. Not including our endless flow of Western players....  


Do Parklands really have a bigger junior base than Coastal? I don't know the facts. We have had an increase of 150 junior players since our first year, and this year had 58 Canty reps. Next year, all going according to plan we will also have girls teams in 12s, 14s, 16s and two in 18s. (And the Parklands coach did actively do the poaching scandal that has been talked about on here...) 


And that strange guilty plea about Western brings me back to my point eventually.  If players move club for better coaching, atmosphere, facilities then that is great.  If they move for money, what is that showing the others coming through the ranks and the general public. Are juniors/masters/others ok with seeing their sub money, or sponsorship money going into a players bank account or in a brown paper bag? I sure wouldn't be. And if that's the way some clubs want to do it, then put it out there, own up to Mainland, and declare it in your annual financials. I, as the worlds greatest player, fan and male model have a greater sense of (Mainland) Pride knowing that my team do it for the love of it, rather than looking for the highest dollar.


Wow, that was epic. 


And for the record, I would make a bloody good politician. 

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.


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over 12 years ago

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Para 1: Well is paying players under the table cheating? Riddle me that.
Para 2: You accused us of favouritism, when heaps of them were already in the team. 
Para 3: Sporting Futures is years old, and was around 12 players, so didn't mean we were filling out our teams. 
Para 4: Foul means was one coach and team, same thing you are complaining about before. And I have no idea on numbers.
Para 5: All is ok if clubs don't pay players. And if they do, be honest about it. You didn't answer any of my points in there.
I'm not abusing anyone, just stating my opinion as I see it. And giving you some background to your comments which are obviously way off the mark.

I let my guitar speak for me

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over 12 years ago

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Go the veiled homosexual references! Yet we are the "young people" making fools of ourselves? I have actually started giggling like a silly school girl while reading this. Quality.

And nobody in the red zone has neighbours...

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Go the veiled homosexual references! Yet we are the "young people" making fools of ourselves? I have actually started giggling like a silly school girl while reading this. Quality.


And nobody in the red zone has neighbours...

Actually that last bit is a good point Shushy when you're getting ribbed about lower numbers than Parklands - 10,000 prople have left the area Coastal is based in so to keep growing the club is a pretty damn good effort if you ask me.

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Go the veiled homosexual references! Yet we are the "young people" making fools of ourselves? I have actually started giggling like a silly school girl while reading this. Quality.


And nobody in the red zone has neighbours...

Giggling like  a silly school girl. Says it all really

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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Go the veiled homosexual references! Yet we are the "young people" making fools of ourselves? I have actually started giggling like a silly school girl while reading this. Quality.


And nobody in the red zone has neighbours...

Giggling like  a silly school girl. Says it all really


Massive comeback from Thickly Bristled there folks. Stay tuned, and make sure the TV is turned right down so you don't miss one syllable of this genius and his witty repartee. 
I am priviledged to be able to take comedy notes from a man of your stature. Thank christ you are gainfully employed is all I can say.

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Go the veiled homosexual references! Yet we are the "young people" making fools of ourselves? I have actually started giggling like a silly school girl while reading this. Quality.


And nobody in the red zone has neighbours...

Giggling like  a silly school girl. Says it all really


Massive comeback from Thickly Bristled there folks. Stay tuned, and make sure the TV is turned right down so you don't miss one syllable of this genius and his witty repartee. 
I am priviledged to be able to take comedy notes from a man of your stature. Thank christ you are gainfully employed is all I can say.

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



Permalink Permalink
over 12 years ago
VimFuego wrote:

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Para 1: Well is paying players under the table cheating? Riddle me that.

Para 2: You accused us of favouritism, when heaps of them were already in the team. 

Para 3: Sporting Futures is years old, and was around 12 players, so didn't mean we were filling out our teams. 

Para 4: Foul means was one coach and team, same thing you are complaining about before. And I have no idea on numbers.

Para 5: All is ok if clubs don't pay players. And if they do, be honest about it. You didn't answer any of my points in there.

I'm not abusing anyone, just stating my opinion as I see it. And giving you some background to your comments which are obviously way off the mark.

If you honestly believe that there are clubs breaching the rules do something about it.

Don't just make snide remarks.

You obviously no nothing about the way the CTFC is run.

Name the players that have joined for the (supposed) money.

Players joined CS to get into The Pride. Players join CTFC to win championships and some to get in to CU

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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:
shushy6 wrote:

[/quote]

Para 1 Nothing against Tech you are just cheats! Just like Bays.

Para 2 None of the CS players joined for the opportunities to make the pride!

Para 3 Sporting Futures was not used to attract other clubs players!

Para 4 Parklands also wrong in their methods! Got bigger than us by foul means.

Para 5 All OK as long as players coming to us. Western are crap also.

You are not going to get many votes with that load of delusional crap Vim.

Do you have any neighbours you dont abuse.

I can only imagine what it is you are playing with to have become the world's greatest.

I do not know about your team but I can believe you do it for the love of it. Maybe a little often.

Had a couple of glimpses of your mens teams culture this year. Not a lot to shout about.



Go the veiled homosexual references! Yet we are the "young people" making fools of ourselves? I have actually started giggling like a silly school girl while reading this. Quality.


And nobody in the red zone has neighbours...

Giggling like  a silly school girl. Says it all really


Massive comeback from Thickly Bristled there folks. Stay tuned, and make sure the TV is turned right down so you don't miss one syllable of this genius and his witty repartee. 

I am priviledged to be able to take comedy notes from a man of your stature. Thank christ you are gainfully employed is all I can say.

Keep giggling and sucking on whatever it is you enjoy Slushy

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over 12 years ago

I'm not making snide remarks, I am merely stating facts from my club to back up your claims, and making accusations that clubs are paying players. And that is the crux of my argument many times!

I have proved my point about the players in the Pride, you have yet to prove yours about CTFC (and Bays) paying players. 

Players join my club for football development, they join yours for $.  Proof would be in the pudding would be to see how well teams would go if they stuck to the rules and not made payments, who would win the league then?

Ok, I'm done.

I let my guitar speak for me

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over 12 years ago
fc69 wrote:


Not sure why all the critical comments towards tech/Canterbury.Tech are a well run club with good loyal people steering the club surely what they do there is good for Canterbury also. It is about time Kamo came back for a pay rise too.

With Tech paying big bucks for Collet, Terris, Kelly etc... They will have to talk nicely to sugar daddy for more $$$ if they want Kamo.
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over 12 years ago
VimFuego wrote:

I'm not making snide remarks, I am merely stating facts from my club to back up your claims, and making accusations that clubs are paying players. And that is the crux of my argument many times!

I have proved my point about the players in the Pride, you have yet to prove yours about CTFC (and Bays) paying players. 

Players join my club for football development, they join yours for $.  Proof would be in the pudding would be to see how well teams would go if they stuck to the rules and not made payments, who would win the league then?

Ok, I'm done.

Once again accusations and no proof. They are not facts until you prove them.

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over 12 years ago
VimFuego wrote:

I'm not making snide remarks, I am merely stating facts from my club to back up your claims, and making accusations that clubs are paying players. And that is the crux of my argument many times!

I have proved my point about the players in the Pride, you have yet to prove yours about CTFC (and Bays) paying players. 

Players join my club for football development, they join yours for $.  Proof would be in the pudding would be to see how well teams would go if they stuck to the rules and not made payments, who would win the league then?

Ok, I'm done.

Once again accusations and no proof. They are not facts until you prove them.

I think you will find they join CTFC to win championships, few if any were developed at CS

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over 12 years ago

Keep giggling and sucking on whatever it is you enjoy Slushy

 I mentioned nothing about sucking, so I am not sure where that has come from. I am currently enjoying, along with this forum, a perfectly wondrous cup of tea. Drinking yes, sucking no. I also quit smoking, so it cant be that either. The other option is just gross! This is a family show! 
You could probably use a comma or two as well, Brister Fendlestick, so I can discredit you properly
See folks. You are really getting your moneys worth tonight. Thats TWO (count them) sexual references, and very little solid content. 
What HAS gotten your back up so this evening sir?

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago

Keep giggling and sucking on whatever it is you enjoy Slushy

 I mentioned nothing about sucking, so I am not sure where that has come from. I am currently enjoying, along with this forum, a perfectly wondrous cup of tea. Drinking yes, sucking no. I also quit smoking, so it cant be that either. The other option is just gross! This is a family show! 
You could probably use a comma or two as well, Brister Fendlestick, so I can discredit you properly
See folks. You are really getting your moneys worth tonight. Thats TWO (count them) sexual references, and very little solid content. 
What HAS gotten your back up so this evening sir?

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago

Why am I double posting all the time?? Grrr.

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago

I think you will find they join CTFC to win championships, few if any were developed at CS


Is that not contradictory? You are saying few, if any developed with Coastal, when you start the sentance saying they join Tech to win.... which also means they were not developed there...... Maybe everyone should stop 'poaching' players then ;)
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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

then I am sure that is what ctfc will do.

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

 


 

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over 12 years ago

Enough of that crap.

Serious questions!

When Rugby, Cricket, Rugby League and Netball have a legitimate professional or semi professional presence in New Zealand.    Can we expect to take our sport to a significantly higher level without also developing the same presence?

Can we expect our young players to carry on with the time commitment expected of them as developing young players into the adult world of responsibilities and outside commitments without financial compensation? 

We have the numbers, how do we turn our playing numbers into supporting a viable top level competition?

  


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over 12 years ago

Enough of that crap.

Serious questions!

When Rugby, Cricket, Rugby League and Netball have a legitimate professional or semi professional presence in New Zealand.    Can we expect to take our sport to a significantly higher level without also developing the same presence?

Can we expect our young players to carry on with the time commitment expected of them as developing young players into the adult world of responsibilities and outside commitments without financial compensation? 

We have the numbers, how do we turn our playing numbers into supporting a viable top level competition?

  


Absolutely. And that is by NOT paying ANY of them. If anyone in NZ thinks we have a sufficient number players at a level that justifies payment they are deluded and should spend a bit of time at any of the 1000's of amateur clubs overseas. 
Most of our 'top tier' players wouldn't even get a look in in Europe, so lets get on with getting our quality up first without making some believe they are actualy good enough to justify getting 'financially compensated'. At the level football is played in NZ this only serves to prematurely stroke the egos of the players, clubs and coaches involved at those clubs that can afford it, nothing else.
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over 12 years ago
10cc wrote:

Enough of that crap.

Serious questions!

When Rugby, Cricket, Rugby League and Netball have a legitimate professional or semi professional presence in New Zealand.    Can we expect to take our sport to a significantly higher level without also developing the same presence?

Can we expect our young players to carry on with the time commitment expected of them as developing young players into the adult world of responsibilities and outside commitments without financial compensation? 

We have the numbers, how do we turn our playing numbers into supporting a viable top level competition?

  


Absolutely. And that is by NOT paying ANY of them. If anyone in NZ thinks we have a sufficient number players at a level that justifies payment they are deluded and should spend a bit of time at any of the 1000's of amateur clubs overseas. 

Most of our 'top tier' players wouldn't even get a look in in Europe, so lets get on with getting our quality up first without making some believe they are actualy good enough to justify getting 'financially compensated'. At the level football is played in NZ this only serves to prematurely stroke the egos of the players, clubs and coaches involved at those clubs that can afford it, nothing else.


I think I agree. Yes, yes I do. And the players putting the time in to become better is pretty severely limited by the fact that we dont have the coaches to get them there. As Sir Ricki Herbert stated, "Is there anybody better?" Arrogant as it was, he sorta has a point. 
You can put as much time in with me as you like as a player, I cant really improve you past a certain point because I JUST DONT HAVE THE COACHING KNOWLEDGE.YET...

I accept this fact, and am working to get more every chance I get. Did you know there seems to be no goalkeeper coaching pathway at the moment? Sucks, but what do you do?


You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago

.... all is calm ....

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:

Did you know there seems to be no goalkeeper coaching pathway at the moment? Sucks, but what do you do?

Put the unco kid who likes wearing gloves in there. Then hope s/he doesn't wander off to climb a tree while the game is going on.

True story.

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:
10cc wrote:

Enough of that crap.

Serious questions!

When Rugby, Cricket, Rugby League and Netball have a legitimate professional or semi professional presence in New Zealand.    Can we expect to take our sport to a significantly higher level without also developing the same presence?

Can we expect our young players to carry on with the time commitment expected of them as developing young players into the adult world of responsibilities and outside commitments without financial compensation? 

We have the numbers, how do we turn our playing numbers into supporting a viable top level competition?

  


Absolutely. And that is by NOT paying ANY of them. If anyone in NZ thinks we have a sufficient number players at a level that justifies payment they are deluded and should spend a bit of time at any of the 1000's of amateur clubs overseas. 

Most of our 'top tier' players wouldn't even get a look in in Europe, so lets get on with getting our quality up first without making some believe they are actualy good enough to justify getting 'financially compensated'. At the level football is played in NZ this only serves to prematurely stroke the egos of the players, clubs and coaches involved at those clubs that can afford it, nothing else.


I think I agree. Yes, yes I do. And the players putting the time in to become better is pretty severely limited by the fact that we dont have the coaches to get them there. As Sir Ricki Herbert stated, "Is there anybody better?" Arrogant as it was, he sorta has a point. 

You can put as much time in with me as you like as a player, I cant really improve you past a certain point because I JUST DONT HAVE THE COACHING KNOWLEDGE.YET...


I accept this fact, and am working to get more every chance I get. Did you know there seems to be no goalkeeper coaching pathway at the moment? Sucks, but what do you do?



Not surprisingly I disagree, in that I believe we struggle to keep our best players interested enough to continue development. It all seems to stop for so many when they enter the senior ranks. Premier League at 17 / 18 or younger and then nothing . Those with ambition tend to move on to overseas opportunities. A number play semi pro in Aussie or Europe. Some look for a greater challenge. Those that stay tend to drift and lose the desire to progress.

What we cant do here effectively is offer those with potential the chance to mature as a a player working at their game. Twice a week is a struggle for some. Money might change that. It has improved the standard of those other sports.

When you look at how much money we turn over currently I find it hard to not think we could use it better by partially employing players. We pay a lot in wages to administer our game, why not to play it?

OK to support them financially through their education (scholarships). Why not whilst working.?



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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:
10cc wrote:

Enough of that crap.

Serious questions!

When Rugby, Cricket, Rugby League and Netball have a legitimate professional or semi professional presence in New Zealand.    Can we expect to take our sport to a significantly higher level without also developing the same presence?

Can we expect our young players to carry on with the time commitment expected of them as developing young players into the adult world of responsibilities and outside commitments without financial compensation? 

We have the numbers, how do we turn our playing numbers into supporting a viable top level competition?

  


Absolutely. And that is by NOT paying ANY of them. If anyone in NZ thinks we have a sufficient number players at a level that justifies payment they are deluded and should spend a bit of time at any of the 1000's of amateur clubs overseas. 

Most of our 'top tier' players wouldn't even get a look in in Europe, so lets get on with getting our quality up first without making some believe they are actualy good enough to justify getting 'financially compensated'. At the level football is played in NZ this only serves to prematurely stroke the egos of the players, clubs and coaches involved at those clubs that can afford it, nothing else.


I think I agree. Yes, yes I do. And the players putting the time in to become better is pretty severely limited by the fact that we dont have the coaches to get them there. As Sir Ricki Herbert stated, "Is there anybody better?" Arrogant as it was, he sorta has a point. 

You can put as much time in with me as you like as a player, I cant really improve you past a certain point because I JUST DONT HAVE THE COACHING KNOWLEDGE.YET...


I accept this fact, and am working to get more every chance I get. Did you know there seems to be no goalkeeper coaching pathway at the moment? Sucks, but what do you do?



Not surprisingly I disagree, in that I believe we struggle to keep our best players interested enough to continue development. It all seems to stop for so many when they enter the senior ranks. Premier League at 17 / 18 or younger and then nothing . Those with ambition tend to move on to overseas opportunities. A number play semi pro in Aussie or Europe. Some look for a greater challenge. Those that stay tend to drift and lose the desire to progress.

What we cant do here effectively is offer those with potential the chance to mature as a a player working at their game. Twice a week is a struggle for some. Money might change that. It has improved the standard of those other sports.

When you look at how much money we turn over currently I find it hard to not think we could use it better by partially employing players. We pay a lot in wages to administer our game, why not to play it?

OK to support them financially through their education (scholarships). Why not whilst working.?

If money is the driver for 'keeping our best players interested in continuing development' and they 'struggle to make training twice a week' then I'd suggest they are not in the slightest bit interested in development at all and will never make it to the next level, ever.
Money does not equal development or progression if they cant get motivated enough without it. Problem is most want it all for little or no effort. By rewarding that attitude we in fact hamper development all together yet the known clubs are happy to oblige as in turn they are 'rewarded' by in effect bought titles. If they lose players, next season they simply go and attract another lot by waving $$ at players that other clubs have developed. You suggest paying players - logic says it would be better bang for buck to spend it on quality Coaches. But then those 'best players' won't front to 2 trainings a week. They are not the best players, and will never be motivated enough to become one.
You equally seem to overlook that the smarter ones figure out that earning al living from playing football is a long shot at best, so if they are capable of tertiary education they will focus on that in the first place. Reality is scholarships will not be deciding factor for them to continuing education. You lose players at every age. Money might just retain a couple that will never make it further. That is likely for a year or two before you decide there are better and younger players to spend your $$ on. And then too they will quit.
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over 12 years ago
shushy6 wrote:
10cc wrote:

Enough of that crap.

Serious questions!

When Rugby, Cricket, Rugby League and Netball have a legitimate professional or semi professional presence in New Zealand.    Can we expect to take our sport to a significantly higher level without also developing the same presence?

Can we expect our young players to carry on with the time commitment expected of them as developing young players into the adult world of responsibilities and outside commitments without financial compensation? 

We have the numbers, how do we turn our playing numbers into supporting a viable top level competition?

  


Absolutely. And that is by NOT paying ANY of them. If anyone in NZ thinks we have a sufficient number players at a level that justifies payment they are deluded and should spend a bit of time at any of the 1000's of amateur clubs overseas. 

Most of our 'top tier' players wouldn't even get a look in in Europe, so lets get on with getting our quality up first without making some believe they are actualy good enough to justify getting 'financially compensated'. At the level football is played in NZ this only serves to prematurely stroke the egos of the players, clubs and coaches involved at those clubs that can afford it, nothing else.


I think I agree. Yes, yes I do. And the players putting the time in to become better is pretty severely limited by the fact that we dont have the coaches to get them there. As Sir Ricki Herbert stated, "Is there anybody better?" Arrogant as it was, he sorta has a point. 

You can put as much time in with me as you like as a player, I cant really improve you past a certain point because I JUST DONT HAVE THE COACHING KNOWLEDGE.YET...


I accept this fact, and am working to get more every chance I get. Did you know there seems to be no goalkeeper coaching pathway at the moment? Sucks, but what do you do?



Not surprisingly I disagree, in that I believe we struggle to keep our best players interested enough to continue development. It all seems to stop for so many when they enter the senior ranks. Premier League at 17 / 18 or younger and then nothing . Those with ambition tend to move on to overseas opportunities. A number play semi pro in Aussie or Europe. Some look for a greater challenge. Those that stay tend to drift and lose the desire to progress.

What we cant do here effectively is offer those with potential the chance to mature as a a player working at their game. Twice a week is a struggle for some. Money might change that. It has improved the standard of those other sports.

When you look at how much money we turn over currently I find it hard to not think we could use it better by partially employing players. We pay a lot in wages to administer our game, why not to play it?

OK to support them financially through their education (scholarships). Why not whilst working.?

Nothing personal Prickly but I have seen this very method used by coaches struggling to demonstrate they know what they are doing. In this country we simply don't have the numbers or resources to pay players, particularly given the dominance of rugby and cricket and the money they soak up out of our economy. Good idea in theory but the reality is even those sports you say are semi pro such as netball and league only do so on the coat tails of trans-tasman competitions. We may get there one day but won't count on it happening in my life time. I understand ChCh Utd have only recently paid off the debt of their glory days in the National League, is that the sort of legacy we should leave for the next generation in our game? And the money spent on wages is justified if the administration is top notch don't you think? I'm with 10CC on this, I don't see part-paying players adding anything to the game locally, apart from stressed out club administrators selling the family silver and bitter recriminations over clubs poaching players :) I'd rather see an A league side based out of ChCh first. Not that it would guarantee any increase in standard in the local league when you look at Wellington's example but it would definitely give young local players something to aspire to. Now if CTFC and Coastal could work towards that .............

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 12 years ago

Not surprisingly I disagree, in that I believe we struggle to keep our best players interested enough to continue development. It all seems to stop for so many when they enter the senior ranks. Premier League at 17 / 18 or younger and then nothing . Those with ambition tend to move on to overseas opportunities. A number play semi pro in Aussie or Europe. Some look for a greater challenge. Those that stay tend to drift and lose the desire to progress.

What we cant do here effectively is offer those with potential the chance to mature as a a player working at their game. Twice a week is a struggle for some. Money might change that. It has improved the standard of those other sports.

When you look at how much money we turn over currently I find it hard to not think we could use it better by partially employing players. We pay a lot in wages to administer our game, why not to play it?

OK to support them financially through their education (scholarships). Why not whilst working.?




When you mention "continue development" you inevitably get to a point where you require a more learned coach. These are not a dime a dozen. Suppose you yourself decided to coach Player A, for free, because he is keen as hell and can train whenever, wherever etc etc. You can pay this guy as much as you want, and he will only progress so far, because you, the semi professional coach, simply do not have the knowledge base of say, an Ernie Merrick (merely an example!!) or more locally, a Monsef or a Morin, which means that Player A simply can not expand his knowledge beyond what your experience matrix allows you to teach him.
 So, if you save up and pay a more experienced/qualified coach, and Player A remains as keen as before, he will progress further, whether paid or not. At the point he has gone to a level that allows US college scholarships or even semi pro careers, then off he goes, to even better facilities and trainers, and even greater potential. 

If you offer money to play, you will get guys that are pretty good, and will possibly win the league here, but they wont get exponentially better, because they simply cant with the standard of coaching that is on offer (Mostly!) at our local level.

I hope this makes sense. Its very late...

You can ascertain what your opponent is afraid of by observing the means by which he attempts to frighten you



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over 12 years ago

Ronnie, I'd love an A league club in Chch but pokie money won't fund that, and there is also the small matter of Auckland - which would be next in line for expansion due to tv & sponsorship/population size,

Progressive aspirational Chch clubs should look to develop other offshore pathways. Get creative in that area.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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over 12 years ago

Totally agree pokie money wouldn't fund it but they're not funding the Phoenix either who play in an area with a smaller population base, just a pipe dream ....... maybe given local success with the girls we should look at the  Aussie W league?

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 12 years ago

Find yourself a sugar daddy for A league.
W league: with coastal success in women's game some sort of feeder club status might be worth exploring, but not sure of W league import player rule.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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over 12 years ago

So, accepting that our very best will hopefully enjoy professional opportunities in leagues overseas, an increasing number, but still very few percentage wise. That group will continue to sort out our AW's and FF's. 

How do we, then, keep our next tier playing domestically? Currently we probably have 200 plus young players locally paying a considerable amount of money annually because they have the dream of playing at the highest level, their dreams are focused overseas. This is not something new, it is more expensive now but it is not new.

The reality is 95% plus, will not see their dream come to fruition. There options as senior players will be to continue playing locally in a local competition of limited standards that requires of them no more than a recreational interest and commitment to sport, or some of those that retain their ambition will push on to National League level, alternatively they may continue to look to play overseas in higher level competitions taken a little more seriously than ours, partly because there is a financial return.

Our National league entries only require one senior player a year from our playing stocks, maximum. Players selected from 18 to 35 year olds. One of our problems is we can not find enough players in this age group who retain the dedication, resolve and interest to participate at this level. This results in a juvenile based female team and a team with 50% of the players from overseas in our male side.

These teams are rightly selected to get results, I do not have a problem with that and hopefully the good results will continue. I do have a problem with the lack of options our selectors have got. No where near the number of club players with the commitment or playing ability to compete for places. 

I do not believe our lack of a better local or National competition is a coaching problem. We have far more coaches making a living from our sport than ever before. Certainly a lack of coaching experience, but not numbers.  I believe that we do produce technically  reasonably well equipped young players. I do not believe we give them the quality of competition and experiences to turn that technique into skill. I also do not believe we offer them attractive enough reasons to continue to strive to improve past their mid-teens.

I am sure one of the reasons we lose so many players overseas to second tier leagues (not fully professional) is the excitement and interest our sport holds everywhere else. We have  players still playing in Australia, USA, UK, Europe & Asia through into their late twenties and even thirties. Many get financially assisted.

An exciting well resourced ,well supported local or regional competition is needed. We must do more to keep our players in the game at a local level. Time produces players, money buys their time.We need to provide for our twenty to thirty year olds.             

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over 12 years ago

Wow. A day away and I miss around 20 messages. I love this thread. 

I think my position has been stated enough, and I spose it comes back to 'the greater good' from Hot Fuzz. 

Anyways, anyone see this in the Christchurch Star.  Interesting (non)development huh?  This link is the best I could find sorry, it's on page 2.  Christchurch Star

I let my guitar speak for me

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over 12 years ago

You should check out the central league thread too, interesting discussion there going on about payments. Allegation of a 50k salary!  

I think I should move there to make my millions.

I let my guitar speak for me

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over 12 years ago
VimFuego wrote:

You should check out the central league thread too, interesting discussion there going on about payments. Allegation of a 50k salary!  

I think I should move there to make my millions.

Why? Was it a Sunday league superstar? Don't tell me they have them up there as well :~

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 12 years ago

Interesting to see that both Waimak & Hornby are advertising for a div 1 coach in December, leaving abit late don't you think, should be an interesting season next year in div 1. I think whoever wins is going to struggle in the MPL 2015.

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over 12 years ago
foal30 wrote:
VimFuego wrote:

Is it written in the contract if you sign for Canty Utd you have to play for Tech?


Ha ha. Check with Mainland. They administer Canterbury Utd.

Is it right that if you sign for Coastal you automatically make the Pride squad?


no but I think there was 9/10 Coastal players in the glorious title winning squad. Ace eh. 

maybe not next summer but the one after look for Selwyn and dare I say it Waimak to get players into the Pride. both clubs have had successive good runs with girls teams from 12's upwards. 


here's the split
22 players 
2 Nelson 
2 Parklands (reserve grade)
each WPL has a player
CTFC 2, Coastal 9, FC2011 1, Halswell 1, Uni 2, Western 3.

those Coastal players we poached
Maia Coastal Prems 2008 played for Brighton before that picked for Pride 2009

Emma Coastal Prems 2008 , picked for Pride 2010 or 11(?)
Belinda new to Coastal 2013, picked for Pride 2011
Lauren and Meikayal Coastal 2012 . Both Pride 2011 ,from Mainland SOF
Laura Coastal 2008. Pride 2011 
Lily Coastal 2009. Pride 2010/11(?)
Chloe 2010 Coastal reserves WPL 2011
Whitney Brighton, Coastal then SOF then Coastal WPL 2012

so there it is. Given there is 3 different Pride Coaching regimes inside this time frame suggestions/accusations around selection and club affiliation seem way off the mark. Both Grant and DeBono where picking Coastal players prior to this seasons Pride staff. 
furthermore we look higher up the food chain and see who is gettign National Rep places. Pretty sure the Pride/Coastal coaches do not pick the National sides. 

E's Flat Ah's Flat Too

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over 12 years ago
reddevil11 wrote:

Interesting to see that both Waimak & Hornby are advertising for a div 1 coach in December, leaving abit late don't you think, should be an interesting season next year in div 1. I think whoever wins is going to struggle in the MPL 2015.

I thought Waimak had already selected a coach back in September, can't find the post but wasn't it rumoured on here (therefore quite true) to be Colin Currie?

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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