Mainland Premier League (Part 1)

Sorry Gings but fact they are still training has nothing to do with whether they are becoming more club-like or not. They train 42-44 weeks a year because that's what academies the world over do. In fact, clubs are moving towards a more academy-like approach: Coastal Spirt, FC 20, Technical Cashmere no doubt.
This is good because players & parents will have more choice and will vote with their feet: go to the local club academy (cheaper & more convenient) or go to a centralised one if you think it is worth the extra hard-earned.
I reckon Mainland Academy will exist only as long as the clubs fail to offer an alternative.
WOF pyramid plan has a Talent ID/Perform/Excel pathway for the top group of players. As a footballing nation we need to be developing the top few % as well as broadening the base and improving the quality of delivery throughout.

What's more important? Developing a good player or having that player play in my club strip v your club strip?

Can't there be both? I think there is more to a football club than the elite. By removing the best to play in the academy they lose that club camaraderie and rivalry that only a club can give.

I haven't read the WOF plan however a wise man told me the academy setup goes directly against its ideals. VimFuego2011-09-16 16:26:16

Some facts SE -
The Mainland Academy was established to counter the Coastal Academy (Sporting Futures - staffed by Ed Baranowski who Mainland then pinched from Sporting Futures). So many clubs whinged and moaned about losing players to Coastal Mainland set up a "centralised" academy in response to appease the other clubs. This caused Coastal to propose a motion of no confidence to the Mainland Football AGM in 2010 with the support of other clubs. So don't go getting it around the wrong way.
The School of Football does not meet with NZ Football approval and sits completely outside the Whole of Football plan which is a club based development programme. The SOF is in direct opposition to clubs who run academies and exists despite clubs offering an alternative - the School of Football exists in spite of the existence of club based academies, not because of the lack of them and that is an irrefutable fact.

What's more important - having strong clubs with excellent development programmes for players of all ages and abilities or clubs continually losing their better players to elite schemes and constantly being told "leave it to us - you don't know what you're doing"?

Get Ed Baranowski and his world class ideas and programmes around the clubs, why restrict him to 90 players a year? That is such small minded thinking it beggars belief.

Ronaldoknow please tell me, apart from CS, which clubs offer a 40+ week academy that incorporates sports science nutrition etc. The answer, much as some clubs might try to dress up an extra coaching session, is ....NONE (though FC 20 are close).
Good on CS but not all clubs have your resources. Why should most players in chch not be offered academy style development? Or are you suggesting they have to go to coastal to get it?

Not at all. Suggesting the governing body should get on with overseeing the development of the game through the clubs as New Zealand football require, not competing with them as is currently happening. What incentive is there for clubs to invest in human and capital resources when you are competing with your governing body?
Ferrymead Bays success in the MPL this season is a case in point. Now we all know that paying players is detrimental to the development of a clubs young players (i.e. money spent of players is money not spent on developing young players) but I understand the approach they took. You only have to read some of the stuff written in Gricey's Word on their website https://www.ferrymeadbaysfootball.co.nz/Soccer-Team-Christchurch-Ferrymead-Bays-Football-Griceys-Word.html to see where their emphasis lies. Why develop players when it's cheaper to buy them already developed? Why put money, time and effort into an academy then find the best players aren't available because your governing body has set up in opposition to you?
Get my point?
Coastal's Sporting Futures academy will be up and running again in November in spite of being asked not to do so by Mainland. Why? Because in Gareth Turnbull and Korouch Monseff we believe we have the 2 best coaches in Mainland and further believe that developing players need exposure to their abilities for the good of the players own development.
Your point about why shouldn't most players in ChCh be offered the opportunity to develop in an Academy is very poignant. At the moment they aren't - less then 1% of juniors are offered places in the SOF and many actually decline. Shut it down and get Ed and Alan working alongside club academies, then you'll see some real development take place.
Coastal is not reinstating the Sporting Futures academy for it's own benefit but for the good of the game. I realise that not many clubs have our resources but most also lack our vision and drive, hence the fall back position of their support for the SOF. If they can't set one up thenselves let's empower Mainland to so so and stop other clubs stealing "our" players. Foolish and retarded thinking. Thinking that is holding the game back. In this season just completed Coastal lost several (as many as 10) players to rival clubs in the MPL, Div 1, WMPL and WPDL. We know we can't keep everybody happy and provide first team football for all but if we can improve their game while they are with us it has to be good for the game overall and that is what we are about. Look at the improved standard in the women's MPL this season, in part brought about by ex Coastal players turning out for other clubs. A similar situation will develop with our Coaches network. We are not going to be able to provide spots for everybody in the near future - Jose Matiz is a good example working with Ferrymead Bays - so other clubs (and the game) should benefit. Now if only Mainland could get alongside this philosophy and support clubs to become stronger and better organised we would start to see some real accelerated growth in the local game.

Unconfirmed gossip: someone at Tech prizegiving said John Brown and Danny Halligan will be coaching there next year.

I'm going to say well done to Mainland for getting the Rep teams to have a hit out on the new turf 1/10/11. See some issues with Summer sport time clash, but the idea is excellent.

Heard the same rumour at the end of last week. Where does that leave Andy Pitman?

What are everone thoughts on the Danny Halligan thing... He works for Mainland coaching the PDL academy team, this consists of players from all our clubs. Mainland told the clubs who objected that they were going to develop these / our players make them better when they return to our clubs at the end of the academy period. Now Halligan is apparently taking the whole team (our players) as a group to play at Woolston Tech under his coaching. Now is this abuse of his position at Mainland or is it not... And will Mainland allow this to happen... I am sure they will. I know that CSFC will lose players that they originally invested time at younger age levels..

Yes correct Danny to coach PDL at Woolston as far as I know.
Western couldn't give him the money he wanted, more than 10K per season for coaching PDL. He no doubt also approached ChCh United but can't confirm that.
Danny goes to who pays the biggest wage for his services and has no loyalty what so ever.
Does this mean a new coach for SOF top age grade?

Clubs will still have to sign transfer forms for him to take players to Tech.
Make the transfer come with a fee for doing so especially if you have put time and money into developing them as a younger player.

Thats always the risk when kids are in a largely untampered with unit for a few seasons, mainland can say they'd go back to their clubs but realistically can they enforce it? Part of the reason I think the academy kids should be staying with their club and then joining the school of football for extra trainings...

Its my understanding the coaches shuffle up with 'their' academy team, so if anything there'll be a new one coming in at 13s? (or whatever the youngest age group is)

On a side note, would the majority of those kids make the tech reserves/first team? or even want to go to tech?
gings2011-09-21 01:25:37

Danny Halligan has the under 19 year olds entered as Nomads United for the Tsunami tournament because they need to be a club to enter this.
Last I heard Mainland Football through Alan Walker did not like it and complained to Nomads about the fact all the players are playing at one club.
Go figure Mainland set the thing in motion with the acadeny structure what did they expect to happen.
Next stop PDL with Tech

ACADEMY ISSUES RANT
1) Look, someone has to offer our best players a pathway beyond Mainland Premier league (which is of average quality anyway - can't beat Dndn teams and no Chch club has got very far in Chatham of late). So, I'm FOR the Academy (in lieu of no other player development pathway that seems to be working) on that issue of developing players to a higher level than the local league. I'd love to see more Chch kids playing in decent quality leagues worldwide. If a broad spectrum of local clubs can offer development programs of that quality, then there is no need for Mainland's academy - and that is fine with me too.
2) Clearly there is a problem with current Mainland academy PATHWAY - surely the players spending time in there must have greater aspirations than playing Mainland club football. Otherwise, what is the point? The Danny route (play PDL at local club) is not a good enough reason to invest thousands of $ into supposedly the region's best.
3) Academy 2011. How has it performed? I'd like to see some info shared by Mainland on Academy KPIs. What IS their measure of success? It surely has to be players into NZ squads, NZF's National Talent Centre identification programme, right? But in the absence of any info, I'll give my own grades: A. The eldest girls team - PASS - didn't play in a Saturday league but have still been pretty successful in terms of getting a few (don't know exact numbers) into NZF World Cup training squad; B. 2nd girls team (13-14 year olds) - FAIL - what were they doing playing 14th grade FFS? Should have been 16s at least (could move to PASS if they get good numbers through to NTC); Danny's Boys - if good number into Canterbury Youth - ACHIEVED WITHOUT EXCELLING; otherwise FAIL - see (2) above; D. Ceri's team - TBA - (14-15 year olds seemed to handle themselves at 18th grade - though could be more a reflection of 18th grade - but really I'd like to know how many are in NTC squads before assessing); E. 12-13th grade Boys who played 14th grade - as per D; F. The next age group - FAIL - did ANYTHING happen for 11 year olds this year?
4) Academy 2012 - late September & no-one knows (or certainly is not telling) what the hell is planned...coaches, players, parents. FAIL AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
5) Club-based academies - FAIL. Not one new one this year?

Nice venting. You forgot to mention the academy team entering the U19's under the Nomads banner.

How can it be good for kids to be coached in the Mainland set up for around 3 years by the same coach. In other countries, the kids move up a year with a new coach and their old coach get a new intake of kids at that age group. These players need exposure to different coaches and new ideas to improve their developement. Also I hear from one of Danny's boys, they all went to a meeting with Woolston Tech  on Monday night and were being brainwashed into playing for Tech under Danny.

crikey.

OK the Mainland Academy 14th Grade Girls, no point in playing 16's because that grade was not strong at all this season. It was better for them to play 14's D1 Waimak Black (core of team was their winning 12th Grade side 2010 + excellent coaching staff) and Coastal Spirit who had at least 5 Canterbury Reps IIRC.

I know 2 girls from the side made NZTC October Oamaru and I think 2 more were already in. The two young ones in the Coastal 14's both made the NZTC Oamaru but in the 12's grouping. So from 14's D1 at least 6 players go into NZTC. Personally I think this is pretty good.

How the Sth Island Tournament pans out might be a better indicator. Last season 12's Girls the Academy Team came last, and the team put together from the various clubs came 5th (again IIRC).

Also in ascribing value to getting players into NZTC type schemes I would want to be absolutely clear on both the nomination and selection process. This is what I talked about earlier in the thread SE, and too expect Mainland Football to work entirely separate to the way everything else exists in the Capitalist System is probably a bit much to ask.

-all D1 club coaches must have the relevant coaching accreditation
- D1 sides must earn their place rather than big clubs in by default
-all Rep coaches are appointed pre-season and have no familial connection to that age group
-these Rep coaches select from watching the comp games, not 'anything goes' trials
-any Academy selection/trial is with the presence of the Clubs individual coach and each respective clubs FDO (ie Tsetso or Gareth etc)

I don't think these ideals are unrealistic. I do understand they require some planning.

Yeah, I heard that too. I think it contravenes Coastal's own tournament rules (had to haver played for the club you represent this year, or 3 guest players). Those boys didn't play for Nomads this year. Coastal just taking the entry fee?

Agree. Too many dads coaching their own kids through the age groups - Danny, Ceri, Terry, Glenn. None specialising at any age group and then passing on that know-how. Poor coach development really.
Hopefully Dannys boys realise they won't be able to play together as a team any longer now they are in the real world.

OK, revise Mainland Academy grade to PASS on basis of 4 into NTC.

Don't understand point re SI tourney. Academy are allowed to enter as a team - WHAT THE !@#$!!!- they certainly aren't in boys tourneys. Is it a different rule for girls?

DIv 1 coaching criteria is in place by Mainland.
DIV 1 entry is on basis of promotion.
Pre season appointment of rep coaches - great in principle but... it means watching not only the grade they are selecting/coaching rep team for but also the other grades that the players are playing in. Many rep players play up afterall. Are they paid for this? Can they coach another team whilst dong this?
Academy trial selection - not sure what you are getting at here re their own coach in attendance. Can you explain? Obviously any selector will be looking at players with different eyes and sure as eggs is eggs no 2 coaches will pick the same X1.

As per usual, gossip was first heard on this forum. Will see how this plays.

Players playing under the SOF banner are registered with the club they previously played for.
Do the Tsunami rules say played or registered with?
Has not been a problem with SOF players in other years.

What coaching critria do you need to coach in Junior Div 1?

Players at all ages get over having the same voice in their ear and look for a change at some stage.
Looking to see how many of these older age SOF kids give the game away when they leave High School.

Rules state that it is who you are registered with, and as Mainland aren't a club (despite being nominated for most fairest club?!?!?), then technically they are still Nomads players (poolmister may be able to confirm). You are also allowed 3 guest players.

2011 Tsunami tournament Rules:
Eligibility
Players are only eligible for the club they PLAYED the 2011 season with unless their club is not participating or they have written permission from their club to represent another club as a guest player

On a semi-related note: Academy players were ruled ineligible to play Nike Cup earlier this year because they were not going to PLAY for the club they were registered with.
At end of day it's a CS tourney so they can make - and BREAK? the rules as they see fit i guess; but tournament eligibility consistency would be good, don't you think? Either; it's a CLUB competition or any group of players can play as a team and enter accordingly.

I guess it comes down to how Danny picks his squad. Theres either going to be a mass evacuation of tech players coz DH has picked his kids over them or the kids are going to scatter. Either way it aint going to be pretty. Things will get stickier if the tech-cashmere merger happens as that further adds to the player pool.

I agree with the no parents coaching at rep level. Surely we have coaches of a reasonable standard to run the rep program without having parents selecting in their kids age group/s...

Mainland Awards Friday Night, who will be the winners.

Western!!!!!!
Club of the year for 2011. Must admit didn't see that one coming but good on them.

AllWhites822011-09-24 19:01:31

Some dud information there Mr 82 AllWhites... 4 of the 9 male individual winners you got wrong.

AllWhites822011-09-24 22:13:00

Taxi for gunner ken!

Lifted off Mainland Website

2011 Mainland Pride Squad named
During the weekend over 40 of the region�s top female football players participated in trials for selection into the Mainland Pride Squad for the upcoming National Women�s Youth League campaign. Mainland Pride staff and Mainland Football are proud to present to you the Mainland Pride Squad for the 2011 competition.

Mainland Pride Squad: GOALKEEPERS Lily Alfield - COASTAL SPIRIT Courtney Napa - WESTERN Lara Malcolm - NELSON SUBURBS   DEFENDERS Meikayla Moore - ACADEMY Olivia Hodgson - FC TWENTY Chelsea Bignal - WOOLSTON TECH Maia Vink - COASTAL SPIRIT Belinda Van Noorden - FC TWENTY Emily Jensen - NELSON SUBURBS Chloe Webster - COASTAL SPIRIT Laura Merrin - COASTAL SPIRIT Ashleigh Ward - COASTAL SPIRIT MIDFIELDERS Zara Walker - COASTAL SPIRIT Sorren Henderson - WOOLSTON TECH Lee Maoate-Cox - WESTERN Lauren Dabner - ACADEMY Mikayla Weblitz - ACADEMY Serena Patel - COASTAL SPIRIT Juliana Los - NELSON SUBURBS   ATTACKERS Arna Roberts - BLENHEIM Emma Proctor - COASTAL SPIRIT Dayna Napa - WESTERN Aimee Phillips - WESTERN Hannah Wong - WOOLSTON TECH Head Coach: Michael De Bono Coach: Tim Bush Physiotherapist: Performance Physiotherapy Manageress: Donna Moore

Also from the Mainland Website

Surely Gent should walk one of those five spots?

Is de Vries related to the Waitak de Vries?